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New in hyperdrive.el: quick install, peer graph, transclusion!

Joseph Turner - https://ushin.org xmpp:discuss@conference.ushin.org (XMPP MUC for USHIN discussion), contact@ushin.org

Format: 21-min talk ; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room
Etherpad: https://pad.emacsconf.org/2024-hyperdrive
Status: TO_CAPTION_QA

Talk

Duration: 20:25 minutes

Q&A

00:00.000 New version of hyperdrive.el
01:06.687 Q: Network effects are tricky - do you know of any public shares people can join to try this tool out properly?
07:31.064 Q: blocklist or whitelist so I can make them containing useful information for only me while also being useful with in a public sense
11:41.024 Q: Could you comment on the "visualization" thing, (org visualization), and your experience with this type of content in buffers and the various possibilities (svg, etc.)?
Listen to just the audio:
Duration: 22:34 minutes

Description

hyperdrive.el is an Emacs interface to hyperdrive, a mutable, versioned, peer-to-peer shared filesystem. Among other things, hyperdrive.el has these features: Share unlimited files of unlimited size; Explore file history with built-in versioning; Stream video and audio; No signup or account creation; Free as in Freedom!

Since last year's EmacsConf talk, hyperdrive.el grew some new features, including:

  • Easily install the gateway program with M-x hyperdrive-install.
  • Visualize your network of sources as a graph or a list.
  • Transclude snippets of hyperdrive files with hyperdrive-org-transclusion.

This talk will show off these new hyperdrive.el features in action!

Feel free to join our public XMPP chat room!

Bugs can be submitted to the ushin issue tracker. Patches, comments or questions can be submitted to the ushin public inbox.

About the speaker:

I'm Joseph Turner. I enjoy fiddle, Aikido, peer-to-peer networks, Emacs, and swimming in cold water. I work with USHIN, a tiny educational US nonprofit whose mission is to promote personal, community, and global health through free and open universal shared information for everybody.

See also: EmacsConf - 2023 - talks - hyperdrive.el: Peer-to-peer filesystem in Emacs

Discussion

Questions and answers

  • Q: Hi there, thank you for your talk - I enjoyed watching it! I tried this tool last year, and it seemed to work well - but I don't know anyone who actually uses it. Network effects are tricky - do you know of any public shares people can join to try this tool out properly? Thank you!
    • A:  Yes, network effects are indeed tricky.  Hopefully, the peer graph can help with this.  That said, here are some hyperdrives I know of:
    • https://ushin.org - hyper://aaj45d88g4eenu76rpmwzjiabsof1w8u6fufq6oogyhjk1ubygxy/
    • https://blog.mauve.moe - hyper://1m51x54k3fwbuec5z4edbathiq3aj6bew8b556ezrszizskogo3o/
    • https://hypha.coop - hyper://zdouwaei9kc5zbk93w5dakbr8maayupojthf3eafo16s4d5pbsry/
  • Q:One usecase for this is sharing and building upon second brains/zettelkastens"denote or org-roam" but a blocker from me wanting to make one public is wanting to use a blocklist or whitelist so I can make them containing useful information for only my while also being useful with in a public sense
    • A: Rephrasing: how to keep the content of a Zettelkasten private, and only have parts of it be public?
    • If the desire is only to share certain files in the Zettelkasten, M-x hypedrive-mirror can do this
      • Can specify either a regexp that matches some of the files that get uploaded to a directory of files on a machine (and only those files will be shared)
      • It can also be a lambda, i.e. anything that can be formulated as a function
      • E.g., with Karl Voit's filetags (or Prot's Denote filenaming scheme), you could share only those files which are tagged as "public".
  • Q: idea: try hyperdrive to distribute WORG (and EmacsWiki)
    • A: Great idea!
  • Q: Could you comment on the "visualization" thing, (org visualization), and your experience with this type of content in buffers and the various possibilities (svg, etc.)?
    • A:  We submited a patch which was merged in Emacs 30 to make image maps (the "overlay" which makes images clickable and have hover-over help-echo descriptions) transform along with the image, e.g., if you zoom in on an image, the clickable map still matches the zoomed-in image.
    • A: In hyperdrive-sbb-view.el, we build a Graphviz string based on the peer relations data, then call out to the external graphviz process twice, once for the svg and once for the cmapx.  Then we build an image map based on the cmapx string.  We put the image and image map together and render it in a buffer.  I also adapted some code from image-mode.el to make the image resize whenever the buffer's window resizes.  For details, see https://git.sr.ht/\~ushin/hyperdrive.el/tree/master/item/hyperdrive-sbb-view.el
    • A: This approach is directly inspired by org-graph-view.el, by Adam Porter (github alphapapa).

  • Q:What is something surprising about how you or somebody else that you didn't expect from using the hyperdrive network?

    • A: Don't quite understand the question. I think the surprising use case for it is to be able to share say a bunch of Org files, link between those Org files... You could use transclusion to to have a discussion and then you could collaborate on on projects using this sort of asynchronous communication using hyperdrive files. If there's a more specific question, I'm happy to answer it better.

  • Q: You mentioned streaming audio and video - could you confirm that this is in reference to consumption of media, and not broadcasting of it - right?

    • A: Since the network is peer-to-peer, audio and video is streamed between peers.
    • So this is all shared on a peer-to-peer network. So if I have a file on my machine that's a video or audio and I'm advertising on the network that people can download it from me, then if you want to download that video and I have a copy of it, when you click on that video in your hyperdrive, not only does it download it from me, but also you can stream it so you don't have to download the whole thing before watching it. So it is both in terms of serving the file and downloading the file.

Notes

  • The "sources, blockers, blocked" idea was influenced by:

  • the safe hyperdrive feature was designed in part based on org-safe-remote-resources. I'd be curious to hear thoughts on how something like this could be improved or generalized.

  • ooo nice graph
  • Perhaps a function which accepts buffer-file-name and returns non-nil if it's safe to call set-auto-mode
  • also, there was off list discussion related to CVE: untrusted-content
    • untrusted-content is a variable
    • we also discussed generalization of this idea with trusted/untrusted files to define them based on file location
    • in a way it is similar to code blocks inside Org files
    • not sure if all this is relevant to hyperdrive
    • It definitely could be. It could be useful to enumerate the different potentially dangerous interactions we could have with files.
    • (1) enabling a major mode (2) enabling file-local variables (3) including remote content (4) evaluating code blocks
    • You might want a file to automatically set major mode but not evaluate code blocks, so more granular control would be useful.
    • I think that allowing the user to set these safety settings based on buffer-file-name would benefit hyperdrive.el, eww, and any other remote protocol.
  • nice!
  • impressive!
  • idea: try hyperdrive to distribute WORG
  • better yet, those EmacsWiki "packages" that are getting rediscovered every decade or so, if they're not going to end up on a git host (as per its opinionated author's non-interest to do so if I'm not mistaken)
  • putting EmacsWiki on hyperdrive would be useful too!
  • YouTube comment: Awesome.

Transcript

Hello, welcome to this talk on hyperdrive.el. I'm Joseph Turner presenting on behalf of ushin, a tiny independent information freedom nonprofit. hyperdrive.el is an Emacs interface to the hyperdrive peer-to-peer file sharing system built by Holepunch. Like other peer-to-peer file sharing tools, such as BitTorrent, hyperdrive lets you share unlimited files directly with other users without having to go through a central hub. One thing that sets Hyperdrive apart is that the files you share can be modified. Since hyperdrive has built-in versioning, you can explore the history of changes that you make to your files or others make to theirs. You can stream video and audio. There's no sign-up or account creation process required. It's all free software. This means that the community has the legal right, the tools, and the information necessary to participate in the development process, or even fork the project and go cimarron. Since last year's talk, we've added a few new features. It's now much easier to get started using hyperdrive.el, since we added the hyperdrive-install command, which downloads the gateway program and installs it on your machine. We added a peer graph feature, which lets you visualize your network of sources of information. We also published a new package, hyperdrive-org-transclusion, which lets you display live updating snippets of hyperdrive files in Org documents. Let's get started. Let's say you get an email from your friend Alice inviting you to check out hyperdrive.el. Let's click on the link here to look at the manual. Let's go down to the installation section. It says you need to have GNU Emacs version 28.1 or later. I'll assume you have it installed, but if not, you can click this link. You need to have curl installed, which is likely already the case, but if not, hyperdrive.el will let you know. Now from within Emacs you can install hyperdrive.el. Run M-x package-refresh-contents. Then, M-x package-install, type in hyperdrive, and hit return. Next, we'll install hyper-gateway-ushin. Let's run M-x hyperdrive-install. It's prompting me to download and install the gateway, which is 51 megabytes. I'll press y. I will skip most of the download process. The download is wrapping up. Now, it's prompting me to start the gateway. I can either run M-x hyperdrive-start, or I can press this button. And after a few moments, we'll see that the gateway will start. It's ready. You can also click this button, "View hyperdrive User Info Manual", to view the same manual that we were viewing in the browser. The info manual comes with hyperdrive.el and is available offline. Now that everything's installed and the gateway is running, we're back at Alice's email. Let's click on the link to her hyperdrive. Here's Alice's hyperdrive. Let's open her hello.org file. I'm being prompted to mark Alice's hyperdrive. Currently, it's unknown. I'll press ? to see more details. "safe", "unsafe", "unknown". I'll press e for "explain". In the info manual, it says that if a hyperdrive is marked as safe, that means files in that hyperdrive will automatically have their major mode enabled based on their file extension. In this case, if I mark Alice's hyperdrive as safe and I click on this hello.org file, Emacs will automatically enable Org mode in that file. Since I know Alice directly, I'll mark her hyperdrive as safe. I'll click on the file hello.org again, and now I'll press Shift-s for safe. Now I'm going to set Alice's petname. hyperdrive.el has different ways to name a hyperdrive. The public key is the drive's unique identifier. You can also assign yourself a public nickname, which you announce to the world. Then users on their own machines can assign each hyperdrive that they are aware of a private petname. I'll assign Alice a petname, which is the way that I will identify Alice just on my own machine. I'll type in "My Friend Alice". Then when I refresh her drive, we see that it says petname in the top left. Now I'll do what she asks, which is to right click on her name and open her peer graph. In the context menu, I see a few different actions I can take, but I'll click on "Peer Graph". It's prompting me to pick the max hops for sources. Default 3. I'll choose the default. Same for blockers. I'll explain what that means later. This is Alice's peer graph. Here we can see that Alice has two direct sources, Bob and Eve. Both Bob and Eve have assigned themselves nicknames, and so we see Bob and Eve here. Eve has assigned this other hyperdrive to be a source. But this other hyperdrive, whose public key is "kb3zr6mq" and so on--if we hover over the hyperdrive, we'll see the full public key--has not assigned itself a nickname. So we just see the truncated short public key. Because we've assigned a petname for Alice, we see Alice's petname show up here. Now I'll open the peer list view to show the same information in a different way. Since I'm using a large font, I'll widen this window so we can see everything going on in the peer list. We see that the root hyperdrive is petname "My Friend Alice", nickname "alice", public key "dm1", and so on. We've set the sources max hops to three, which means that we will go out at most three hops from Alice in order to find sources. One hop from Alice are Bob and Eve. One hop from Eve is "kb3", which is two hops from Alice. Now we've set the max hops for sources to three, but in this case, the network is small, and "kb3" has no sources. So we can only go out two hops from Alice until we run out of sources. In the future, we plan to add a search feature based on this list of sources. You type in a query, and you get back a list of results published by Eve, Bob, or "kb3". It's also possible to block peers. I'll open the transient menu by pressing question mark. For now, let's turn on showing blocked peers. I'll press "s x", and now it says blocked sources. Now we can see Mallory also shows up. Mallory has been included as a source by Eve, but is blocked. So in the end result, she does not show up in the list of sources. Instead, she shows up as a blocked source. But how is it that Mallory ended up being blocked? Let's open up the transient menu once more and click "s b" to show blockers. Now we can see that Bob has blocked Mallory. This means that Bob is not interested in seeing search results from Mallory. Since Alice has included Bob as a blocker, that means that Alice trusts Bob to block people on her behalf. So since Bob has blocked Mallory, Mallory does not show up in Alice's peergraph as a source. Well, now I'm curious to see what it is Mallory published that drove Bob to block her. I'll right-click on Mallory, and in the context menu, "Open Hyperdrive" and... Wingsuit Flying Grand Canyon Point of View Not Clickbait? I gotta check this out! [playing: Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up"] No! Disgusting! No wonder Bob blocked Mallory. Let's go back to Alice's peer graph. Mallory is a blocked source. Are there any peers who are blocked but who aren't sources? I'll open the transient menu and I'll press "s x". Now we're looking at blocked non-sources. Darth, who's been blocked by Bob, has not been added by any of Alice's sources as a source. So Darth is a blocked non-source. I'll open the transient menu again and I'll press "s x". Now we're looking at all blocked peers. Both Mallory and Darth show up. If I scroll down in the peer list, we'll see that Mallory is listed under blocked sources, and Darth is listed under blocked non-sources. This view has gotten a little bit busy. Let's say that we're only interested in how Alice relates to Mallory. I'll open the transient menu, and I will filter the graph to show paths only to Mallory. I'll press "o a", type in Mallory, and hit enter. Now we see that Mallory has a bold border and "kb3" and Darth are missing from the graph. Eve shows up because there's a path from Alice to Mallory that goes through Eve. Same for Bob. We can also add more than one peer in this view. I'll press "o a" again, and this time I'll choose Darth. Now Darth and Mallory have bold borders, and "kb3" is still missing. We can remove Mallory and Darth one at a time with "o r", or we can press C-u, the universal prefix argument, and then "o r" to remove both Mallory and Darth from the list. Now we're back to seeing everybody. This view of the graph is somewhat simplified because we're showing only the shortest paths between peers. If I press Shift-s now we're looking at all paths. Here, we can see that in addition to going from Alice to Bob as a source directly, we also go from Alice to Bob through Eve as a source. Let's go back to showing only the shortest paths. Currently, the max hops for sources and for blockers is set to 3. Let's see what happens if we set the blockers max hops to 0. After the graph reloads, we now see that Mallory shows up as a source, not as a blocked source. This is because Bob, who is one hop away from Alice, is no longer included as a blocker, because we've set the blockers max hops to 0. And since Bob is not a blocker, the fact that Bob blocks Mallory doesn't factor in. While Alice is the only one who gets to decide who her direct sources, blockers, and blocked peers are, anyone can view Alice's peer graph, tinker with the sources or blockers max hops, and use her list of sources to do a search. Let's see what happens if we set sources max hops to 2. Well, the graph doesn't change, because we only ever went out 2 hops anyway. Let's set source's max hops to 1. Now we only see Bob and Eve, since "kb3" and Mallory are 2 hops out. Source hops 0. Now we're left with just Alice. Now I'd like to create a new hyperdrive and add Alice as a source. I'll run M-x hyperdrive-new. Now it's prompting me for a new hyperdrive seed. A seed is a string of characters that's combined with your secret key, which is generated for you by the gateway program, in order to create a new public key for each new hyperdrive. I'll type in "Joseph". A new drive. Now, I'll right-click on my own name, and in the context menu, I'll choose "Set Relation From". From Joseph... to Alice...as a source. Now, I'll right-click on my name again, and click on "Peer Graph". Sources max hops, let's say three and [three] for blockers as well, Here's the peer graph from my newly created hyperdrive's perspective. Mallory is included as a source, three hops from the root. Let's open the list view. If we were to mark Alice as a blocker by clicking on this button in the blocker column next to the petname for Alice, Then we see that Mallory shows up as a blocked source. Only now that Joseph includes Alice as a blocker does the fact that Bob blocked Mallory take effect. You can click on another peer to set them as the root hyperdrive. I'll click on Eve. Now we're looking at the peer graph from Eve's perspective. This peer graph view has a history. If I open the transient menu, you'll see here there's a back and a forward button. Back is bound to "l" for "left". If I press "l", we're looking at the graph from Joseph's perspective. If I press "l" again, now we're looking at Alice, as at the beginning. I'll press "r" to go forward, and "r" again, and now we're back at Eve. Now, I'd like to show you the hyperdrive-org-transclusion package we published. I'll open up the hyperdrive manual to see how to install it. Now, from here, I'll press "m" and type in transclusion to jump straight to the "Org-transclusion integration" section of the manual. To summarize, we can install hyperdrive-org-transclusion with M-x package-install RET hyperdrive-org-transclusion. Then, once this is done, we will copy the following snippet and add it either to our init.el file or, in this case, I'll just evaluate it. Now, hyperdrive-org-transclusion-mode is enabled. Let's go back to the hello.org file in Alice's hyperdrive. I'll right-click on Alice, then click "Open Hyperdrive", and hit RET on hello.org. This time, I'm not prompted to mark Alice's hyperdrive as safe, since we did it already. I'll navigate to the "Check out my peers" heading. Then I'll run M-x org-store-link. Now, I'll create a new file in my hyperdrive by running M-x hyperdrive-find-file. I'll select my hyperdrive and I'll call this new file response-to-alice.org. Now, I'll paste in a response that I've written. I'll go to the bottom and I will run M-x org-insert-link and I'll insert the link that I stored earlier. As a link description, I'll change it to "Snippet from Alice's hyperdrive file". I'll save my hyperdrive file. Now, to show that the link works, I'll just kill this buffer showing the hello.org file, and I'll click on the link. Now, in addition to linking from my file to the heading in Alice's file, I'd like to transclude this heading's content in my file. So I'll go to the link in my file and run M-x org-transclusion-make-from-link and I'll save my file again. All that's been added is another link, prefixed with this transclude keyword. To make the transclusion show up inline, I'll run M-x org-transclusion-add. The content of Alice's file hasn't been copied into mine. It's just being transcluded. If I run M-x org-transclusion-remove, you'll see that the underlying content is still just the transclude keyword and the link. Now some time has passed and Alice has updated her hyperdrive file. She wrote, "Please add me as a source." Since the transclude link that I added in my file does not specify a version, it will always transclude the latest version of Alice's hello.org file. If I run M-x org-transclusion-add once more, we'll see that the latest version of Alice's file gets transcluded into mine. Let's say that I want to transclude the previous version of Alice's hello.org file, and I don't want my transclusion to change when Alice updates her file. That's possible too. I'll go over to her file and run M-x hyperdrive-open-previous-version. Now when I widen the window a little, we can see in the mode line that this is version 57. For an explanation of what the version numbers mean, check out the last video or the info manual. For now, I'll go down to her "Check out my peers" heading and run M-x org-store-link. Now, in my response to Alice, I'll insert the link. I'll run org-transclusion-make-from-link. Now there are two transclusions. The first transclusion will update whenever Alice updates her file, and the second transclusion is pinned to version 57. That covers hyperdrive-install, the peer graph, and hyperdrive-org-transclusion. Feel free to check out the hyperdrive.el info manual in the ushin hyperdrive here, or on the ushin.org website. Thanks to the folks at Sopranica, we have a public XMPP group chat you can join, either using an XMPP client or anonymously from your browser. If you use Matrix, there's also a bridge. Thank you for watching, and Thank you to the EmacsConf organizers and all the presenters who made this wonderful event possible.

Captioner: sachac

Q&A transcript

[00:00:00.000] New version of hyperdrive.el
One thing I wanted to mention was that as with last year, I just released a new version of hyperdrive.el and it depends on the latest release of transient.el and so if you are going to install this package, make sure that you restart your Emacs after you install it, if you aren't already up to date with transient, which was released yesterday. Otherwise, since it, this latest version of transient.el updates the transient prefix EIEIO class, and it won't work unless you restart Emacs. Okay, well, good to know. I think that's a small price to pay to be on a bleedingest of bleeding edges. All right, I see there's a question here. Let me see if I can read it. Yeah, sure. Do you want me to field it to you or do you want to read it? Oh, sure. Go ahead. I'd love to hear you read it. Sure. Thank you. So first question. Hi there.
[00:01:06.687] Q: Network effects are tricky - do you know of any public shares people can join to try this tool out properly?
Thank you for the talk. I enjoyed watching it. I tried this tool last year and it seemed to work well, but I don't know anyone who actually uses it. Network effects are tricky. Do you know of any public shares people can join to try to try this tool out properly? Thank you. Network effects are indeed tricky. Yeah. That's kind of part of the purpose of the peer graph is to make it easier to discover peers in a way that's more, uh, more reliable and consistent than just somebody puts a public key on Reddit and then it's lost unless somebody finds it. Um, but the, the public keys that I know of are, there's the public key for the Ushin hyperdrive, which is basically just the same content that's on the website mirrored to a hyperdrive. Um, and then there are a few other ones. There's like, uh, hypha.coop has some WebZine content accessible via HyperDrive and also via IPFS. And then mauvesignweaver has a blog that's also available on Hyper. So that's blog.mauve.moe . But besides that, that's kind of the purpose of this peer graph thing is to make it easier to discover other peers. Yeah, to make it also very visual in a way, because, you know, I personally, it's funny because it reminded me of talks that I did in the past about the trust system for PGP keychains, because at the end of the day, you know, this trust system, whether you trust someone absolutely or relatively, the blocking system, it feels very related. Any kind of a chain of trust like this, feels very reminiscent, obviously, but it felt very nice that for you, you had a dynamic display of this web of trust. Whereas for me, I had to make fancy diagram in ticks, in latex, just to make sure that people understood what was actually going on. Yeah, one thing I want to point out is just the difference in utility for something like the PGP web of trust versus this kind of network of peers is, if I understand right, the main purpose of web of trust is to identify that a certain public key is actually created by the person that they claim to be. So you have a way of identifying that a key actually matches like a government identity. Whereas this kind of network of peers has nothing to do with authenticating a key or associating a key with an identity, like a government identity. The purpose is exclusively just to get more peers to be able to discover more peers who have things that are worth reading. Yeah, it's a different take on a concept, but even though the concept might be the same, I find there's a wealth of things that can be done thanks to this, because as you said, you trust someone to send you a file that is trustworthy. Well, with PGP, it's mostly about communication, but about file sharing, it just opens up completely new avenues. Yeah. Do you have anything else to add? And about that, I think one of the barriers to the PGP web of trust is that it required getting together to have key parties to meet people and verify identities. Whereas with this kind of thing, there's no need to do that because so long as your content is interesting, it doesn't matter that you're not who you claim to be or that you don't even claim to be anybody. Yeah, I mean, again, as you mentioned, it's not about identifying people, it's just about identifying value, in a way, in the content that people share. It has nothing to do with verifying their actual identity. But again, it's the same technology, it's the same understanding, but for different applications, which is lovely because programming is fractals all over. The same problems repeat themselves and the same solutions show up for widely different scenarios, which is always good. Yeah. Anything else? One more thing. Yeah. One more thing is that I wanted to give some kudos to, um, some of the other projects that inspired the pure graph work. One of them is Adam Porter's or graph view, um, which is a, um, a tool for visualizing different nodes in an org file and how they link to one another. Um, he did. the pioneering work to figure out how to render interactive graphs with GraphViz. And so we worked together on it and kind of hacked down the last parts that weren't working correctly. And so this is inspired a lot. The user interface is inspired a lot by Adam's work. And then also the idea of having people that you mark as blockers and block is inspired by another project called TrustNet by Alex Cobleigh. I can type in the link there. Alex, how do you spell it? Cobleigh? Yeah, I'll type it in here. Thank you. And I think the link is https://cblgh.org/trustnet. I think that is it. I'm not totally sure. But yeah. Okay, well, that's very good. and thank you for giving credits to the inspiration, because again, nothing is done without context, and it's always nice in the free software world to acknowledge people who have influenced us, because it's very nice when people start contributing, maintaining software, publishing stuff that they actually start collaborating with people who've inspired them, which is a nice way to climb over the shoulders of giants, which this community likes so much. All right, moving on to the next question. We are, we have about seven more minutes for questions, so we're still good.
[00:07:31.064] Q: blocklist or whitelist so I can make them containing useful information for only me while also being useful with in a public sense
Second question, one use case for this sharing and building upon second brain, sorry, one use case for this is sharing and building upon second brains, i.e. Zettelkasten, that's denote or what I'm actually doing, but a blocker for me wanting to make one public is wanting to use a block list or whitelist so that I can make them... Cautioning? Quarantining? Containing. Yes, definitely containing. Why did I go for quarantine rather than containing? I guess my brain went to a dark place from the 2020s. So I can make containing useful information for only me while also being useful in a public sense. Yes, I think your question is about how to keep some of the content of your Zettelkasten private and only have certain parts of it be public. If your desire is to only share certain files in your Zettelkasten, then you can use the hyperdrive mirror command that we demonstrated in the Emacs 2023 talk. In short, It lets you specify either a regular expression that matches only some of the files that'll get uploaded from a directory of files on your machine. And only the files that match that regex will be put into the hyperdrive and shared with the world. But it doesn't have to be a regex. It could be a lambda. So it could match based on file size or modification time or really whatever you like. So I hope that answers your question. Great. And I personally, as someone who loves tinkering with my Elisp, I particularly like the ability to specify things with a lambda because it just opens up the ceiling of the possibilities with interactions between different parts of software. And, you know, as I have worked significantly in Org Roam, I could definitely see interactions with lambdas here to make sure that we can send and share files based on the filter list that is incrementally added to thanks to those lambdas. So thanks for this. One more thing I want to add about that is that the, that same question of being able to upload only certain files while leaving others to be private was something that was inspired by Karl Voit. I had an email thread with him in which he talked about how he uses his file tags project to organize his files. And he'll put a public tag on the files in his org database that he wants to have be published to his website. And so you could very easily just set a regular expression matches that public tag and then all of the other files would be not shared. Yeah, and, oh, sorry, I was, I misclicked, I was talking to production for a second. First time it happens today, so I think this is a testament to the level of tightness. But yeah, as you were saying, whatever heuristics you want is actually a good thing. I think people are a little antsy because they tend to brain dump into their Org Roam, Zettelkasten, Denote, and they really don't want some of their personal notes being out there. And well, if you are worried about this, I think learning some Elisp and implementing some Lambda function that allows you to filter with intention might be the best solution for you. So I hope we've covered the question as well as we could have. Next question is more about an idea about trying hyperdrive to distribute the Worg. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I mean, you could distribute whatever you wanted. I think that'd be a great idea. Okay, great. Moving to the next question, and we have about three minutes, so I think we'll cover the last two questions and we'll move on to the next talk after that.
[00:11:41.024] Q: Could you comment on the "visualization" thing, (org visualization), and your experience with this type of content in buffers and the various possibilities (svg, etc.)?
Could you comment on the visualization thing, Org visualization, and your experience with this type of content in buffers and the various possibilities, SVG, et cetera? Sure. So one thing that we worked on was I added a patch that was merged as part of Emacs 30, which fixes the way that image maps scale when images are scaled. So as an Emacs 30, if you zoom in on an image or shrink an image or rotate an image, now the image map, which is the overlay, so it's not actually an overlay, but it's, so to speak, it's an overlay that allows the images to be clickable based on, you know, where the actual visual display is. You can also click on it or hit help echo. And as of Emacs 30, now that scales with the image itself. The code to make that work on previous versions of Emacs, you can see the advice that we added in hyperdrive-sbb-view, that file in hyperdrive.el, if you're curious to see how you could polyfill that code, so to speak, to make it work on previous versions of Emacs before Emacs 30. But it works great. The way that this works is we generate a GraphViz string that will be sent to GraphViz to render an SVG and also render a CMAPX string. We pipe those back into Emacs and then we generate the image map from the CMAPX file and then we put that image map with the SVG, and we render it in a buffer. Works pretty well. You can check out the code to see exactly how it works. OK, great. Well, sadly, I think we are a little short on time to cover the last two questions. So Joseph, if you want to take a little bit of time maybe to answer the questions in the BBB, you can just do this, even though the stream will be moving to the next talk. But I'll use the opportunity to thank you both for the talk and for your answers, because they were very insightful. And thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you, Leo. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Any last words in about 15 seconds? Thank you. I'm grateful for your taking all this time to make this conference possible. Well, you know, the conference would be nothing without the speakers coming and chatting, so you are the ones to thank. I mean, we like the thanking, obviously, but it's mostly you doing the work. All right. Thank you, Joseph. We'll see you later. Bye-bye.

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