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An example of a cohesive student workflow in Emacs

Daniel Pinkston (he/him) - IRC: bardman, develop dot bard at-symbol gmail dot com

Format: 9-min talk ; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room
Status: TO_CAPTION_QA

Talk

Duration: 08:27 minutes

Q&A

00:38.360 Q: Do you have any thoughts about the process of recording something for a conference? 02:23.792 Q: I use org-roam for notes and find it very useful - have you considered it? 03:40.880 Q: Do you use the Getting Things Done methodology as part of your Org workflow? 05:58.520 Q: org-fc and org-drill are emacs org mode centric flash card solutions, have you looked into them? 07:27.506 Q: What do other students think about your approach - and what are they doing instead (if anything)? And your teachers - what do they think? 11:25.360 Q: What was your biggest source of frustration/friction/confusion when getting started with Emacs? 11:48.124 Q: How did you come across Emacs? What got you into it? 13:53.680 Q: What the situation with respect to "mobile" use (if ever that's applicable)? (yes, Orgzly...using that?) 15:21.920 Q: Has using emacs led to expanded interest in programming/computer science? 16:40.672 Q: How does interaction with others work in technical terms?

Listen to just the audio:

Description

Most successful students have a go-to system for staying organized. It might be Notion, Obsidian, a bullet journal, or a simple paper planner. The key is finding what fits your personal needs and style. Here's an interesting option some students might not have considered: Emacs. It's a tool that's popular with Linux people, but possibly overlooked by others. For the right person, it could be a game-changer in managing academic life.

This talk is meant to showcase how different Emacs tools integrate with each other to create a cohesive work environment for students.

Links:

Denote https://github.com/protesilaos/denote - the keystone package for my preferred note taking method
Logos https://github.com/protesilaos/logos - a focus-mode tool for writing
PDF-tools https://github.com/vedang/pdf-tools - pdf viewer
Anki-editor https://github.com/louietan/anki-editor - my favorite package for making flashcards in Emacs
Org-fragtog https://github.com/io12/org-fragtog - auto toggles LaTeX fragments in my org documents
Org-download https://github.com/abo-abo/org-download - facilitates quick image addition to org documents
My Emacs configuration https://github.com/BardofSprites/.emacs.d - includes not only writing, but programming

About the speaker:

I am Daniel Pinkston, a high school student (grade 12) interested in Emacs, Linux, programming, and customizable/libre software. I have been using Emacs since 2022, starting with DOOM Emacs.

Discussion

Questions and answers

Q: I use org-roam for notes and find it very useful - have you considered it?
- A: I know about it; started with it, actually. Didn't like the dependancy on an external db, e.g. if using syncthing from a laptop to a desktop. Fair enough.
Q: Do you use the Getting Things Done methodology as part of your Org workflow?
- A: I started with org, and then heard about GTD, so I didn't exactly design my workflow with that in mind.
- I probably don't do it the exact way.
  - audience: I can never Get Things Done $:-\$
  - \<gs-101> Personally, I just add checkboxes to TODO headings. For example. I scheduled to learn scheme today:
  - * TODO Study Scheme [0/4]
    - - [ ] A Scheme Primer
    - - [ ] Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
    - - [ ] Video lectures of thre previous book
    - - [ ] The Scheme Programming Language Fourth Edition
    - And each checkbox is a link to a bibliographic note of the book/video.
Q:org-fc and org-drill are emacs org mode centric flash card solutions, have you looked into them?
- A: Looked into org-drill, but wanted to use Anki because I wanted to use it on my phone, so that demotivated me.
Q:What do other students think about your approach - and what are they doing instead (if anything)? And your teachers - what do they think?
- A: Other students are usually just confused. They know I use Linux but they don't know what it is, so they assume that everything I do on my computer is hacking or doing some Linux thing. I don't usually bother explaining it to them. That's one of the reasons I made this talk, so I can refer people who are actually interested in it instead of superficially interested in it.
- For my teachers, I think... I showed them this year for the first time. It didn't really interact where they would see what happens. Export to LaTeX... I did that for my physics class. My teacher was pretty satisfied with the results for the math programming. I think they don't really have a problem with it. It's actually more convenient.
  - audience: I'm a teacher and I'd be over the moon. And if I didn't know it yet, I'd be super inspired. I use it with all my students (some complain but the best ones adopt it pretty effortlessly).
Q: What was your biggest source of frustration/friction/confusion when getting started with Emacs?
- A: I don't really remember; it somehow just clicked one day.
Q: How did you come across Emacs? What got you into it?+1
- A: I get asked this quite a bit; I have a prepaired answer. Similar to how I stumbled into Linux. Saw screen-shots on Reddit, saw video on YouTube (doom cast is what got me really into it). Chat recommended: SystemCrafters' videos; yes, as well as prot's videos about completion and embark. i would watch videos while washing dishes.
Q: What the situation with respect to "mobile" use (if ever that's applicable)? (yes, Orgzly...using that?)
- A: Didn't want to use a paid-app to sync files, didn't need to look into too much because I carry a notebook and usually a laptop. I've seen others get started with eink tablets, can't attest to how good that is.
Q: Has using emacs led to expanded interest in programming/computer science? (apologies if I forgot from your presentation) (+1; emacs configuration seems like a natural entry-point into learning programming)
- A: Emacs is what got me started with lisp specifically, otherwise I might not have looked into it that much other than dabbling with Scheme from the Structures and Interpertations of Computer Science book. I was into programming before Emacs. I used vscode then vim, before emacs, but now I've done most of my programming in Emacs.
Q:You mentioned exporting notes, essays, etc. for handing them on to other people. How does interaction with others work in technical terms? We mostly find workflows centered around Microsoft products. How do you manage with that? (+1; now that computers are fully integrated into education, how do you deal with conflicts in terms of the tools and workflows others expect you to use?)
- A:

Notes

Evangelism. We need more of that. Like the quote "Investing in your future". Going to spread this.
(This high-schooler is definitely going places!)
makes note of anki
For creating flash cards entirely from inside Emacs, there's Gnosis: https://thanosapollo.org/projects/gnosis/
i started living in emacs around age 13, this talk is definitely bringing back a lot of memories ^^
- wow! do you remember how you heard the first time about emacs back then?
  - hearing about some "linux" thing on the radio and reading some LJ copies -> my dad bought an old pc from a grad student -> reading a bunch of those "learn everything about gnu/linux" tomes -> switch todebian and deciding to try out that Other Editor
  - thx for sharing. my dad has been definitely also making an impact to my "computing development", but i encountered unix-y stuff not before my first university contact unfortunately. i though successfully bypassed the "win 3.11" times …
  - (i was also included in some old-school seemingly MIT-esque educational experiment involving LOGO and robots, back in elementary school)
  - i don't think it's a coincidence that my parents are scientists and i was practically raised in a biology laboratory :P i'm not that old but i think the first browser i used was ncsa mosaic
Great talk! Thank you! I'm really going to have to try out some of those packages 😊
Yes, 30-40 years back *sigh*
I hope I get praised this much by the professors if I'm able to join university 😄
ah bardman is gone, if there are more people with "learning scheme" on their TODO list, there'll be a sicp reading group next year (loosely affiliated with
transgeeks/#guile-emacs/#systemcrafters), i think daviwil of
systemcrafters.net also runs guile scheme courses from time to time
- privmsg or email me if you want a direct notification, but i'll be mentioning it occasionally in those channels when they're close to starting
I can relate, I finished High School just last year. trying to get into college too
there's some sort of series to be made here. aaron wolf has a series of talks about using free software to ensure his young son has a healthy relationship with computers...
Reminds me of Eduardo's talk on the dev track yesterday about mathematics students in Brazil
YouTube comment: When I was a student, I would take notes on paper. They would be messy. I would review, re-write, and organize my notes on paper. Then I would type them into the computer so I can print out nicely formatted notes. I did all this on a 16bit Atari ST and it blew my instructors mind in electronics school when I turned in my ring bound, printed notes for grading / review. I had drawn circuits and did all this desktop publishing work on it. It was very new at the time, only Macs, Atari, Commodore were doing this stuff at the time. Really wish I had today's Emacs back then. Even if I could have obtained a copy of Emacs it would have been lacking a GUI and Org-Mode and most of the popular packages. So today, is the best time to pick up Emacs because it is even more useful today than 40 years ago.
YouTube comment: Yes emacs is amazing and with latest llm it is easy to learn how to use it. I know the llm will destroy jobs but I do appreciate that it helps me embrace emacs faster

Feedback:

👏👏👏 well done!
👏
👏👏
👏👏👏
👏👏👏👏
👏 (i wish i would have discovered emacs also in my school time)
👏👏👏👏👏
Fanstastic talk! I will save the link to the talk for new users of org-mode.
fantastic talk ty
Like the moderator, too, very upbeat just what I need on this day of drizzle.

Transcript

Hello, my name is Daniel Pinkston. I'm in my last year of high school, about to go to university. About two and a half years ago, I discovered Emacs. My life has now been separated into two chapters: before and after Emacs. How could this tool be so impactful? Well, you'll just have to see. I made this talk for people who ask questions like this, but don't know where to start. When I started using Emacs for school, it took me a long time to find what I liked. There wasn't many examples of a full process for an organization. This talk was made to guide students like me, those who wanted more from their software workflow that they can learn and adapt from. My main idea was essentially explained by Zaiste in his EmacsConf presentation in 2019. He said something to the effect of, one of the great parts about Doom Emacs as a starting point is that it shows beginners how different packages mesh with each other. He says that people often have trouble seeing how to develop workflows using the thousands of packages Emacs has. In this talk, I introduce some Emacs tools and how they work together to improve a student's academic workflow. Let us commence. If you are watching this talk and have never heard of Emacs, it's a customizable text editor. When you become more experienced, it becomes your entire operating system. You just live inside of Emacs. It's also free as in free pencils and open source, which means that you don't have to pay to download Emacs and its source code. Emacs doesn't charge you a monthly subscription, nor does it steal all of your information. Yeah, I know, it's pretty crazy. In this talk, I introduce some Emacs tools and how they work together to improve a student's academic workflow. Earlier I read this post on this website that said, I can only imagine the great things you'd be able to learn and retain in your brain thanks to the great Emacs ecosystem. You've made the best choice, with far-going implications. I promise you not once, not even subtly, have I ever regretted having invested in learning Emacs. It's the best gift anyone can present to themself. You will forever feel indebted to your younger self for this gift. I guarantee that. I think that this is a real testament to the true power of Emacs. There's simply no other software like it. It's a complete and fitting solution for those who are willing to master it. Hopefully by now you're invested in learning Emacs. But before we jump into the technicalities of everything, we should outline the main things that you need it to do as a student. The best students have their system figured out so that it can do these things quickly and efficiently. They should have no problem quickly organizing what they need to do along with capturing information from their classes. But you may be wondering, how does Emacs do all that? Well, it does it with Org Mode. It was built to be an outliner for note-taking and list management, exactly what a student needs. One of the key features is that it's plain text, which means that you can migrate it between computers, and it's not a proprietary format. For those of you who have heard of Markdown, Org is similar in that it's a markup language. However, it's a bit older, and it goes way beyond Markdown's simple text formatting, with its scheduling, task management, and organization features, all captured within plain text simplicity. This slide shows off one of my notes from a heavily customized Emacs window. Yours probably won't look like this from the start, but you can personalize its appearance with custom themes. It's finally time to get into the technicalities. What you need to do with your notes in Org Mode is create, search, and possibly publish them. I prefer Denote for creating my notes, but there are many Emacs packages for that. Denote is just lightweight and gets the job done. I used to use Org Roam, but I didn't need or use all of its features. I also use Anki, a free and open source flashcard program, but of course, I make all my flashcards in Org Mode. For searching, I often use find and grep, which are both standard utilities on Linux. Other operating systems probably have a tool to replicate this functionality. The final item is exporting. There are many scenarios in which I want to publish my notes to share them with teachers or peers. One of my favorite features of Org Mode is the exportability of the notes you make. This presentation was actually made in Org Mode, and so are all of my lab reports and essays for school. I also write my webpage articles in Org Mode, which a program called Hugo converts into static HTML. So far, you haven't actually seen what it's like to use these tools. Here's a quick demo of how I track what I need to do. First, I always open up my todo.org file in my denote directory. For school assignments, I have a heading under Inbox where I have entries for each class I'm enrolled in. Each class's heading has a tag on it, which the assignment inherits as a subheading. Here's an example assignment. I have a test in physics next next Wednesday and the deadline to finish studying for it is the day that I'm taking it. When I plan my studying, I run the keybind for org-schedule to schedule the day on which I will study it. I can also mark it as the highest priority, making it the most important thing to do. I can also open up my agenda to see my tasks. I've cleaned it up as to not reveal any of my nefarious plans. This agenda is customized, but there are many tutorials on how to do this. My agenda has been the most transforming part of my student experience, and I've gotten a lot better at managing what I need to do. Next, I'll show you what I like to do to take notes. The main entry point for a new note is always starting with M-x denote. You fill out a couple of customizable prompts that will ask for values of the note. I'll start by making a new note, which we'll call test note. Then we'll give it a key for what category it's under. For this, I usually put the subject of the class that I'm doing this note for, be it programming, English, history, or science. Try to keep them short. And then Shazam, we have ourselves a brand new note which we can start typing away in. The cool thing about the note is you don't have to manually name your note files. It uses a standard convention using the time, the title, and the keywords of the note to make it unique. You can even make a meta note, a note about notes, to show a list of notes under a certain keyword. The final step in creation is flashcards. There is a great package called Anki Editor that makes Emacs able to push cards into Anki. There isn't much to overcomplicate here, it's just content on front and back, sometimes with images and complete the phrase. You can also set up LaTeX math formatting, but I don't really use it that much. If you're living in Emacs all the time, you may want some creature comforts. These are some of my favorite. Org Download is a package that allows you to paste images from your clipboard into an org file. Logos is a text narrowing tool that helps you restrict what text you can see and focus on what you're writing. It extends Emacs default narrowing, also adding functionality for quickly switching to headings for a presentation look. It can remove your mode line and center your text for better focus. org-fragtog allows you to move between previews of your LaTeX formulas and the unrendered syntax. pdf-view-mode is a fully fledged PDF reader, complete with annotations and org syntax, highlighting, and clickable links. Something you may want to consider is digital versus handwritten notes. There have been several talks in the past about how to integrate handwritten notes into Emacs, such as retyping them or scanning them in with an OCR tool. I don't think that type notes are the only way that you should take notes, but if you do try writing, at least get some nice stationery. I've seen people ask online to YouTubers and Twitch streamers asking, what is your keyboard? What is your window manager? I understand that they're curious, but cosplaying as a productive person by using the same tools won't accomplish anything. Emacs will not make you a productive person. It can be a significant time investment because of how customizable it is. However, I believe it will make it easier for you to be productive, as it certainly has for me. This was just an example workflow to show prospective students how they can use Emacs for their needs. Even if you don't end up using Emacs in the end, you can still apply most of its ideas to other software. It just won't be as customizable and extensible as Emacs is. Thank you for listening to my talk. It's been a great pleasure to finally take part in this conference in some capacity, and I'm glad I was given a chance. To all the students who may try Emacs in the future, good luck because there might not be any going back. If you have any questions, feel free to shoot me an email. Thank you for your time.

Q&A transcript (unedited)

And I believe we are live. Hi, Daniel, how are you doing? I'm doing great. It's cold outside, but it's nice in here, yeah. I can assure you it's very cold in my own place as well. We do EmacsConf always in December and that's always when it's particularly cold where I live and I assume where you live as well. So, don't worry, we'll try to keep you warm with interesting questions. But first, thank you for taking the time out of your busy high school life to make a presentation

[00:00:38.360] Q: Do you have any thoughts about the process of recording something for a conference?

about Emacs. Do you have any thoughts about the process of recording something for a conference? Because I assume it's one of the first ones you're ever doing. I think it was not as difficult as I thought it would be. I just recorded in my basement and prepared some notes beforehand. I think it was definitely helpful to have Emacs as a tool for that, because I made my presentation with Beamer. Right. I mean, it's amazing to see so many of the tools because, you know, you've shown Emacs, but you've shown Beamer. You've shown tools that are about twice as old as you are yourself, which is amazing when you think about it. But I think many people in the audience can actually relate to your discovery of those tools because we were pretty much, I mean a lot of us were your age when we started playing with those tools so it's like there's a little bit of nostalgia that we feel looking at your presentation because we are, we can see the excitement behind everything you've touched and that's great for us because it brings us back maybe 10 or 20 years in the past and for others perhaps 30 or 40 years so that's kind of amazing. How about we start taking some questions? So, just for timekeeping, we have until 20 of the current hours, which is 8 minutes and 30 seconds to cover as many questions as possible. Now, if we might take the first one. So, Corwin, can you scroll down to the questions? Yes. I'll be reading you the questions just to make it a little easier for you, Daniel, to answer them.

[00:02:23.792] Q: I use org-roam for notes and find it very useful - have you considered it?

I use Org-roam for notes and find it very useful. Have you considered it? Uh, yeah, that's actually where I started out for taking notes. Um, that, that I moved to Denote because I didn't use all of its features, um, for, Org Roam, I meant. Uh, I also didn't, didn't really like the dependency on an external database. Uh, it just like took a while for, um, stuff to index if I moved it between like, uh, using sync thing. laptop and my desktop. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely something, I mean, I co-maintain Org Roam, so I'm fully aware of this problem with it. And yeah, SyncThing is not great to sync a database, a SQLite database that we use. And, I mean, whichever solution you use, whatever works for you is good. Orgrim was kind of thought in terms of scalability for people who had, you know, thousands of notes with thousands of links inside of them. so perhaps it's not adapted to your note-taking style right now, but perhaps it's something to keep in mind, you know, it's many tools and you use them when you need to. Colin, if we can switch the questions, I'm switching to the second one.

[00:03:40.880] Q: Do you use the Getting Things Done methodology as part of your Org workflow?

Do you use the Getting Things Done methodology as part of your Org workflow? So there's an interesting thing about that. I started with Org first and then I heard about Getting Things Done, so I didn't exactly design my workflow with that in mind, but I sort of reinvented it, I would say, not really, but I do a lot of the similar things, but I don't have the different TODO states like... I don't know an example because I didn't really look into it that much, but it would be like NEXT isn't the next thing you're going to do. But I don't think I... where I just write what I need to do and then schedule it and then look at my agenda for the next thing. Yeah, I mean, part of the beauty of using Emacs, Org Mode or using a methodology like Getting Things Done is that I think you need to find room in the method or the tool for you to organically do what you want. And it's okay to not do everything in a Getting Things Done methodology. I know a lot of people take issue with the tickler file, where you're supposed to put stuff to review in the future. For instance, if you don't want to work on this particular topic right now in your life, you decide, oh, I'd like to revisit this topic maybe in six months. And then you have this tickler file, which has entries and folders for each month of the year. And when six months comes and you find yourself at the beginning of the next month, you open the file and you see, oh there's the task I left off for later. A lot of people don't like to do it this way, some people really like it, but part of the beauty of having tools which are very modular like Emacs and Org Mode allows you to have, well, you just adjust the method for something that works. And there's something to be garnered as well for applying these lessons to how you organize your life, not merely in front of a computer, but also how you manage your tasks elsewhere at school, iSchool or elsewhere.

[00:05:58.520] Q: org-fc and org-drill are emacs org mode centric flash card solutions, have you looked into them?

All right, moving to the next question. Org-fc and org-drill are Emacs Org Mode-centric flashcard solutions. Have you looked into them? I think I looked into Org-Drill, but I wanted to use Anki because of... I wanted to use it on my phone, but then I realized I had to pay for the app, and then I didn't want to use it on my phone anymore. but it's just something that I used before without work mode for a little bit. And then I liked it, but yeah, it works pretty well with Org mode. So I didn't find a reason to switch to one of those because like I might be not at a computer one day and have to learn something. Yeah, that's something that you call premature optimization. And if you continue as a software engineer at university, you'll get to hear plenty of this. But yes, Anki is also a tool that I've used a whole lot in my learning journeys, be it about languages, be it about literature, be it about whatever really, and it's a very good tool and I recommend people to look into it, especially since they've released a new algorithm to manage learning a little differently than the old one. If you're familiar with SuperMemo, I really invite you to look into the advancement in Anki in recent years.

[00:07:27.506] Q: What do other students think about your approach - and what are they doing instead (if anything)? And your teachers - what do they think?

Moving to another question, what do other students think about your approach and what are they doing instead, if anything? And your teachers, what do they think? So for other students they usually are just confused about what's going on when I show my computer because they know that I use Linux but they don't know what it is so they're just assuming everything on my computer is I'm either hacking or like doing some Linux thing and I don't really bother to explain it to them so that's kind But for I love it. See my see my prior videos. That's that's wonderful. Pardon me. Pardon me for breaking in, Daniel. But I just since I have, I want to say wonderful presentation. I love your spirit, your tone and great thought there. For my teachers, I think... because if I write an essay or something, I usually paste it in Google Docs. But recently, I got more confident, which is export to LaTeX, and I did that for my physics labs. My teacher was pretty satisfied with the results for the math formatting. So I think they don't really have a problem with it, where it's actually more convenient, maybe. That's really great to hear and if you continue at university, which I'm almost sure that you will, your professors, you'll be pretty much using the same tools as they are, so you'll find yourself in a like-minded crowd of people once you get to university. We are a little short on time because we need to move to the next talk in about one minute. There are still some questions and Daniel, I would invite you to stay and maybe answer them in a room so that we can gather as many of your answers as possible. But before we leave, I just want to give you the opportunity, if you have any last words, to share them with the crowd. Well, for the students who may be watching this, I hope that you give Emacs a try. And good luck if you decide to use something else because it's probably won't be as great. It's very good to be so young and to already be convinced that Emacs is the best thing. For some of us, it took us many decades to reach this conclusion, and I'm so happy to see young people. I used to be a teacher, by the way, so I used to teach people your age, but I'm so happy to see people your age interested in Emacs because it makes me hopeful that in the future we'll have people carrying the flame and standing on the shoulders of current people. So thank you so much, Daniel. We'll be seeing you soon. We wish you good luck with your studies. And for EmacsConf, we'll be moving to the next talk in five seconds. See you soon. And I want to reassure you, we'll post all the Q&A info when we do post this video. Yes. So Daniel, as I said, if you want to stick around a little more with Corwin to answer the questions, that's all fine. I'll be moving to the next room to get ready for the next talks. So thank you, Daniel. And I'll see you later. All right, the cops are gone. Wait, no, I'm just kidding. No, but if you'd like to walk through a few more of these questions, I'd be happy to record that. You're not obligated to do that. You could also, the pad's there. You could just type out your answers or whatever you prefer to do. I guess I can answer them still. Cool. So we're here.

[00:11:25.360] Q: What was your biggest source of frustration/friction/confusion when getting started with Emacs?

What was your biggest source of frustration, friction, confusion when getting started? I honestly don't really remember. It somehow just clicked one day and I figured it out. All right, it takes us pretty naturally to the next one.

[00:11:48.124] Q: How did you come across Emacs? What got you into it?

How did you come across Emacs? What got you into it? I could ask this question quite similar to how I stumbled into Linux, where I was... I heard of it before, but I saw screenshots of it or something on Reddit, and I was like, oh, that looks pretty cool, maybe I'll look into that. And then on YouTube, I would see videos about Doom Emacs, and then the Doomcasts video, I think that's what really got me into it. Okay, I did my best to capture that. So what's the situation with respect to the mobile use, if that's applicable? And Orgzly is, sorry, was it not Doomcast? Is it System Crafters? Sorry if I botched the note. Oh yeah, System Crafters was also one of the things I used for getting into Emacs from scratch. I'm sorry if my dog is barking. the, I'm not sure how to pronounce his name, but Protesilaos, I think that's how you say it. I always say Prot just to get me out of that problem for what it's worth. I'm not sure that I can say it properly either. Yeah, his videos were really great for getting started with each, each individual component of something like there's entire videos just about completion and about a tool called Embark. And like, I would just watch those videos while I was doing the dishes or something. and I would learn a lot from that.

[00:13:53.680] Q: What the situation with respect to "mobile" use (if ever that's applicable)? (yes, Orgzly...using that?)

Awesome. I love it. What about the mobile... sorry, did I get that question out there already? Oh, no. I don't use Emacs or any Org Mode things on my phone. I have an iPhone, unfortunately. But for org files, I couldn't really get it to sync over without using a paid app. And I didn't really look into it that much because I have a computer with me almost all the time. Usually I carry around a notebook. And if I really need to know something or remember it for later, I just write it down. I've seen people get started with e-ink tablets, and they sync it with SyncThing because it's Android, but I don't use that, so I can't really attest to how good it is.

[00:15:21.920] Q: Has using emacs led to expanded interest in programming/computer science?

So has using Emacs led you to an expanded interest in programming and computer science? Sorry if I could have got that out of the presentation. I think Emacs is what got me started with Lisp specifically. Otherwise, I probably would have not really looked into it that much, other than like maybe dabbling in Scheme from the Structures and Interpretations of Computer Programs book. But I probably wouldn't have seen that if I hadn't discovered Emacs either so. I was already into programming before Emacs, and I had used VS Code for a little bit and then Vim. But I think I've done most of my programming inside of Emacs, in terms of lines of code written, projects made...

[00:16:40.672] Q: How does interaction with others work in technical terms?

So maybe we'd jump from there, right, to, you mentioned exporting notes, essays, and so on, handing them on to other people. How does interaction with others work in technical terms? We mostly find workflows centered around like Microsoft products, and that makes sense to me. I have a day job where I have to work with a bunch of Microsoft products, and I know the workflows for that. So how do you manage your kind of Emacs-y you know, workflows, um, you know, in terms of sharing with people. Yeah. So for sharing with like my teachers or something, I would, we use like Google at our school. So for, I'm very fortunate that I don't have to deal with Microsoft other than with a very niche situations in which I can just use LibreOffice and then convert to Doc X or something. I heard that chef. That's, that's how all my vendors, uh, my vendors all roll their eyes when they were, oh, you're a Microsoft shop. Yep. Heard. Then they're all Google shops too, in education. Great point. For Google, I just... If my teachers wanted a Google Doc or something, I usually just copy paste whatever I wrote in Emacs and then still keep it, anyway, as a side thing because I don't really trust the cloud that much in terms of using it for later if I wanted to look at it. But for that, I don't really have too much problems. Hopefully, I will find a way to figure it out when I get into university. Awesome. Okay, well, I know we did it once already, but since this will be the end of the video, let me just open the floor one more time for parting thoughts. I'm not sure that I have any. I mean, you said it pretty well, right? I hope my peers see this. I hope they realize other tools are kind of inferior from a gets things done standpoint. Saw your talk. Heard that message in this Q&A. I think you did a great job. You don't have to say more, but just offering you the chance. Thank you. Well, thank you, Daniel, and thanks to everybody watching this video during the conference or after it, and appreciate and look forward to your talks in the future, Daniel. Thank you.

Questions or comments? Please e-mail emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org