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Open mic/pad for quick updates etc.

Format: 41-min talk ; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room
Etherpad: https://pad.emacsconf.org/2024-open-mic
Status: TO_CAPTION_QA

03:08.240 Vertico
05:58.720 which-key
06:46.080 eldoc
07:54.800 Casual
10:37.560 Closing remarks
13:33.880 Graphical web browsing
19:00.280 org-web-tools
20:28.240 qutebrowser
Duration: 40:13 minutes

Description

Discussion

  • sachac: I had fun writing some code to copy a line from ERC for easier copying to Etherpad, that was a nice new thing for EmacsConf 2024. Also the random package mentions on our countdown screen was fun too. This year I've had less time to work on Emacs-y things (about half the time compared to last year's leadup to EmacsConf), but it's nice to see we can still pull it off!
  • transient discussion:\
  • do you like to much hydra? Leo?
  • I love which-key.
    • Yeah, I think adding which-key to Emacs 30 was a great idea!
  • I wrote a transient to make it easy to access various Emacs help resources, and I don't know Elisp very well.    
  • Its amazing how in emacs people don't need to frequently migrate to the newer packages all the time.
  • at one point i experimented a bit with using transcient as an interface to run shell commands that I was trying to parse from the man pages, i still think this is an interesting discoverability into all the options that shell commands offer
    • inkpotmonkey: ffmpeg comes to mind
  • I use transient for my job, and that save my life.
  • I wrote a little package that combines transient and tabulated list mode to fetch issues from services as jira.  Transient is a nice package to quickly get an UI going.
  • eldoc-mode.\
  • I also kinda just had a thought for discussion. Browser related thoughts and speculation
  • sachac: I've been using spookfox to control Firefox from Elisp, which has been handy for some automation (can both send stuff to and get stuff out of Firefox, I have some blog posts about it)
  • https://github.com/browsh-org/browsh
  • Discussion: Right now it exist as a bunch of hacks on top of sly  12:16:19 
  • re: qutebrowser -- https://github.com/lrustand/qutebrowser.el
  • karthik: WOW! I am going to have to start using this immediately! Thank you!
  • I've been really meaning to try out Meow as a long-time Evil user 🙂
    • The vim bindings never clicked for me. I came directly from the emacs keybindings. Setup meow to mimic the emacs bindings and been working great e.g. n,p,f,b for navigation. Works eally well for colemak dh layout
  • fristed: I've been experimenting with using emacs as a GUI toolkit for common lisp applications
    • ooo, does your experiment have a home/name? i've been wondering about using emacs as an interface for clim apps (partly as a step towards using clim in emacs, possibly), seems possible considering that their was a web-based interface in the 1990s
  • have you shared links about this? "emacs as a GUI toolkit for common lisp applications"
  • I would like to take a look
    • did you see my guile talk? you might be interested in the long-term future section :)
  • Currently I do not have any public items yet, but now I know that there is interest i'll look into it
  • If i have something working next year i'll consider having a emacsconf talk. It is inspired by CLOG, but using emacs instead of the browser

  • oooh, another possible topic for discussion: what's something you've recently started trying in Emacs?

  • I've been experimenting with using semgrep to review elisp for security issues 

  • It was really cool being able to jump in! 😊

  • hey hey, I've been experimenting with ways to make packages very easy to try! link: http://anggtwu.net/2024-find-tryit-links.html\

  • to the person who was lounge-928 a few minutes ago: I found the slide in which I start to discuss choosing the right level of detail! See here: http://anggtwu.net/emacsconf2024.html#16:06

  • everyone should know of greader-mode.  it is amazing.  i use it all the time\

Transcript (unedited)

I believe we are live, so hi again folks and welcome to a little bit of an unstructured time that we wanted to have for this particular EmacsConf. We have a bit of a lighter afternoon compared to previous years and we just thought it would be a nice opportunity for us and for you to join if you've got anything to share like you wanted maybe to have a talk this year but haven't had the time to submit a presentation well now's your time think of it more like the traditional workshops that Emacs Paris or Emacs Berlin tends to run so if you've got anything to share we've made sure to publish the link to this room on IRC and perhaps as well on the website And yeah, it's just a moment for you. If it's a little slow because people do not join, we might start chatting a little bit about Emacs Conf in general, and perhaps take a little bit of advance on the closing remarks for the day, just so that I can go to bed early. But otherwise, the mic is yours. Does any of my fellow co-organizers want to maybe join in and say a word? Maybe you, Corwin? Who, me? No, I usually just sit here quietly. You know me, Leo. Nothing to say to me. I see Karthik here. Karthik has joined the chat. We can see what Karthik has been up to. Hi, everyone. Hi. Hey, I hear you. Is there anything you wanted to share, Karthik? Nothing in particular, but if people suggest topics and have something to say or show off, then I'll jump in. Right, you're coming in as someone who wants to react to stuff, not someone who wants to present, but that's completely fine too. But that means that we are still stopped for people who want to chat. We're still pointing fingers at people in the chat, otherwise. Well, and if you're watching and you want to. Yep. If you, I was just going to say, if, uh, if you're watching the stream and you'd like to get involved, uh, you can join, uh, libera.chat on IRC and join the emacsconf-gen channel. Um, uh, or, uh, just, just, uh, reach out in one of those channels and, and we'll, we'll, we'll ship you a link to join in the BBB here. I'm not sure if that got auto published. I didn't see it on the website.
[00:03:08.240] Vertico
I can suggest a topic, since many people have demoed or used transient in this conf. I was wondering if someone has any interesting uses for transient. It's an interesting topic, sadly one in which I'm not going to be personally able to participate in because I'm still old school. It took me, you know, the VertiCo stack. Did we actually present something on vertico at EmacsConf? I'm not sure, but it's a completion engine in separate packages, very similar to what people may be more familiar with, i.e. Ivy, Helm, ido, all those tools. But I'm old school and I still use Hydra when it comes to interaction. But I've been meaning to transition into Transient at some point and I'd actually be quite interested in people sharing how they've been able to use Transient to supplement their interfaces. but I'm obviously a big user as I think most people would be in this room and on live viewers. The Git, I use it plenty and it's a wonderful interface and I wish I could develop similar interfaces for my own packages that I manage. So maybe at some point. But apparently part of the discussion I think revolves around the fact that transients might be a little hard to approach for people who are perhaps used to the simplicity of a Hydra set up with aboabo's packages. So, if anyone has got anything to say about this, you're more than welcome to join us on BBB. You can also chat it up on IRC and we'll try to give voice to the lines you write and we might be able to react. Otherwise, I suggest if we got a call in. Although that's where I was going to take it to. I think that's a perfect question. Because for once, although obviously any of us can probably talk about how interesting it is at some length, it's not something that Leo and I, normally such loquacious people, have any real insight to. So kind of pick up the phone, call in, jump on the BBB, or through your comments in IRC, exactly as Leo says. Love to, love to have, uh, invite more participation in the discussion and thinking about how to answer that. I myself, uh, you know, jump into my own workflow and I'd start thinking about, oh, well, what is working for me so well, I haven't dug into that sort of where I take the question.
[00:05:58.720] which-key
which-key actually is the direct answer to that, right? For me, that particular package, which seems to come up a lot in sort of help-adjacent forums as being a discovery tool, a way to learn different bindings. I self-identify as being kind of on a path of memorizing all the keystrokes I'm going to care about and how to find ones that I, it would have been convenient if I cared more about before today, right? So it's, for me, a lot of Emacs's power is the, you know, whatever brings to me the knowledge of what I should have done a moment ago, need to do, you know, how to do what I need to do next and so on.
[00:06:46.080] eldoc
I'll also be a user of which-key here and all the fancy tools like eldoc which provides you in your modeline the signature of the function you're currently writing such as if you're writing an elist function but you've suddenly forgotten which is the first argument which is the second argument usually you have if you stay inside the function it will show in the modline what the arguments are supposed to be and what their names are so that it's actually pretty useful. And you get similar things if you're writing other languages, like I write Go for a living, and it's always good to have the signature appears in the model line whenever you're writing the start of a function. So I'm seeing, I'll read out a couple comments here. I just, I note the, you know, use of transient as a bridge to Elisp, especially if you don't know it well, you're not interested in learning it, even perhaps. I've certainly run into that. You know, oh, yuck, Elisp. No, I'm doing fine with Customize or whatever works for you, right? That's a lot of the Emacs spirit. So I hear
[00:07:54.800] Casual
that. Uh, and then, and that brings up casual, which, uh, I've seen a lot of discussion of personally, and that, that looks, uh, you know, uh, it's an, all of these types of things like org actually, which we've been talking a lot about this weekend. you know, bring together a lot of functionality kind of cross-cuttingly across Emacs, all the different languages that we can figure out how to view nicely in Emacs will, you know, fit into some sort of, you know, kind of literate format to talk about. code that needs to span a lot of languages for whatever reason, right? So I guess my bite at the apple there. Yeah, casual's neat and so is transient. I haven't... I haven't for myself... I've seen some comments in chat throughout the weekend good discussion around hey that's you know it's kind of hard to learn how to use how do I fit this into my use case how do I think about things in the same terms that transients abstractions do so that you know to the extent I need to I build my program in terms of those same abstractions or to the extent that isn't necessary or helpful just so that it's natural for me to set up my customized variables so that my saved routines just do the right thing or my read routine spectrum in the right place or whatever, tying the room together, sorts of integration. I haven't run into that because for me, I'm on this journey of learning the keys was my point. I'm not actually preaching for that's the way to use Emacs, quite the reverse. away. All right, I see that some people are joining us on the BBB, so if you've got a mic on, we're gonna assume that you want to be chatting, but don't hesitate to interrupt us if you've got anything to contribute, meaningful otherwise, if you just want to chat it up with us, we are also here for this. Yeah, and to do the radio announcer thing a little harder too. Like, you know, I guess in my mind, I'm thinking of this as a call-in format. Just come over and grab a microphone and talk about your thoughts and whether it's something that Leo or I are saying, or Sacha, that you've been pretty quiet over there, that are setting you going, or you just kind of walk into the room with, hey guys, why aren't we talking about, or let's talk more about, or thoughts from the weekend, which as Leo mentioned, is kind of where we're gonna where we in our own minds are sort of sitting, walking into the room.
[00:10:37.560] Closing remarks
Perhaps what we could do is I mentioned that we could perhaps take a little bit of advance on the closing remark. I know it feels weird to be closing a conference that has not yet finished because we still have many talks in the afternoon. If I count, we have one, two, three, four, five talks. Well, actually, no, four. So there's still plenty to go. But since, you know, you know, I'm still in Europe and it's still pretty tough to maintain composure until 11. Might be a good time for us maybe to read over the closing remarks. How do you feel, Corwin, about this and Sacha, how do you feel about this? Yep, that'd be cool. Sacha? Fine with me. People can continue to share thoughts and ideas in the chat or in the Etherpad and we can go through the closing remarks. You want to share the sun-close? Uh, I do have them. I'm not sure. So you did copy over. Okay, good. I can kind of rotate the screen between them if that works. And I'll try to jump over to chat a little more. Uh, you know, sure. I'm putting the link on BBB just in case people in there wants to follow. And also for you, Corwin, if you want to open it up more quickly. Yeah, that's going to be easier. Thank you. Pretty sure I have the Sunday close pad here, but I'll take your link, sir. Um, I mean, I've got my org channel. Sure. I mean, Elephant Ergo, if you want to jump in, you know, we were suggesting doing the Saturday, Sunday close, sorry. Instead of having people chat, but if you have something to say right now, feel free to jump in. Although you do not have your microphone on, you would need to join the audio in order to chat. Yep, and you can also use any of the private message type of features. Did you guys want me to bring up the pad here? I did pull it up. Oh, well, I got it already. Understood. Okay, cool. So I think Elephant Ergonomics is currently switching to the microphone so that they may ask a question. So I suggest we wait a little bit. Elephant Ergonomics, yes, right now, you figured it out. Hi. Is this working? Oh, wow. Cool. Okay. Long time listener. First time on the show. Wow.
[00:13:33.880] Graphical web browsing
Okay. Well, I shouldn't let my nerves get the best of me now because I got it all set up. So basically the thing that I've been thinking about because I've had a a handful of thoughts related to graphical web browsing. Because I know that that's a point of friction for me, for sure. I don't know how much other people experience that. I know that I've certainly heard murmurs about it. But I've been speculating about a couple of thoughts about that recently for some of the stuff that can be done in order to get like the sort of invasive graphical JavaScript, giant unmanageable spec sort of version of the browser working inside of Emacs, you know, in addition to, you know, the much more manageable EWW kind of thing. So yeah, basically as part of my rambling, I had basically two major thoughts for strategies, because God knows this is way too big of a thing for me to tackle just for me. And I have been kind of thinking, you know, where do I go about getting started? And I think maybe that would probably just look like maybe, you know, pitching ideas that have been on the back of my mind. The first of which is that I stumbled upon uh, this application while ago called browsh. Uh, it's a, I'm going to go ahead and post that in the chat. Um, and just the, uh, emacsconf-gen. So let's see here. It's not going. Oh, trying to light space. Cool. So this is a, I have no personal involvement with this project. The person that developed this does not know I exist, but I stumbled upon this in the wild. And what's really quite interesting about it is that it will run, it's effectively a headless browser in the background and then convert this into blocks of text for the sake of rendering inside a terminal. This is especially helpful in the case where you can run the daemon that's actually responsible for the headless browser instance on a completely different box than the one that you're actually running your shell on. And you have this complete separation between the I/O and the actual handling of all of the complex, kind of opaque, really unmanageable, big browser stuff. I'm thinking that there's definitely something that we could consider cannibalizing here, either for one of the different rendering paradigms that fits inside of Emacs more cleanly, especially either like the SVG renderer. Or again, trying to figure out how to break it into blocks somehow, but I feel like there's definitely. Something very Emacs-y about the strategy that I would love to consider, especially for someone more technically qualified than I. To consider, I would love to tackle this. Given that I have the time, but I didn't want to sit on this idea. On my own on the basis that, you know, there's a lot really qualified people here and I figured that. You know, someone that's a little bit more frustrated than me about this could very well. Pick this up and run with it. So I wanted to suggest that I also wanted to suggest the prospect of... I found a couple of just completely separately as a strategy to the ability to re-render outputted DOM content that would be rendered by, again, a full-fledged browser, probably in a headless, a sort of instance and then converting that DOM content to SVG, which we could then render inside of Emacs either piecewise or as the entire document. And I feel that that could be another strategy that we could perhaps consider as something that we can do for, you know, headless processing, and then having the Emacs rendering engine actually responsible for the display and the I/O. So yeah, I just wanted to suggest a couple of those sort of ideas I've been sitting on. A couple
[00:19:00.280] org-web-tools
of things related to that stuff would be org-web-tools, I think is what it's called, from alphapapa. It'll allow you to download a webpage into an Org Mode document. Or if you wanted to use a web browser that would have key bindings, primarily, you would want to use the next browser or qutebrowser, where they're more of meant to have their settings saved in a text document. And in the case of Next, it's written in Common Lisp and is very deeply inspired by Emacs. So I'll just break in what is a great discussion briefly to say. If you're just joining us, you're watching the Emacs conference. We're doing a brief open mic session. And we've been joined, we have... Sorry, I was just going to introduce you, Plasma. Sorry. Nasty feedback from you, Sacha. Sorry. We'll definitely have to check out integration for those two browsers. You know, this is my first time taking a look at web tools. This could definitely help me.
[00:20:28.240] qutebrowser
I've been using qutebrowser really persistently. It has dramatically improved my browser experience, but I'm still definitely having that last little bit of context switch friction that I would love to make disappear. Next might be part of the recipe, but I definitely think that, you know, certainly the goal for me is that I would love to see it inside Emacs itself. But this is, this definitely represents a big piecewise improvement I'm going to have to pursue. So thank you. So I think that that intersects some some several conversations that I think we've heard throughout the weekend kind of touching on the idea of, you know, baking our baking our thoughts into the core of Emacs right. and realizing, oh yeah, this is a pattern other people or a problem other people are running into or a way that other people work or a way that people want Emacs to look or just starts me thinking about like alternate key binding packages, which over the last few years, I feel like we've seen just a ton of options in a space that had been somewhat dormant, right? There was evil and everything else. And now there is a lot of granularity in my mind to everything else. So although I'm not using any of these things, I think I've bumped into them a lot. A couple of other related topics in case that jogs anyone's interest to jump in and join the discussion. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the comments. Any other person wants to share something in the room currently? I'm seeing plenty of familiar names, so this is an invitation for those who I haven't heard so far to come in and chat. And I mentioned to a comment I see from wasamasa saying, I've been experimenting with using some crap to review ELIS security issues. That's something. you want to leave. I'm not sure that is. Yeah. I'm not sure if Wes and Marcel wants to deprive themselves of, well, actually unmuted yourself. So please go. What? I've only got my name, that's all. I was just reading out your comment from the chat. Yeah. Just jump in on any topic, honestly. Okay. I thought like, it's like an invitation for people to talk what, you know, they've recently started trying to do in Emacs. That's exactly right. A hundred percent. Okay. Okay. So, well, I do review security things for work. And one colleague has been like bugging me all the time about, hey, try semgrep. It's pretty cool if you have like, you know, decent rules to review stuff. And I postponed it for the longest time. And then I thought, actually, you know what, which would really make sense to like try out whether it even works for elisp source code review at all. And the answer is somewhat like apparently they've added LISP support, which is pretty cool. So it seems it's like best developed for like reviewing closure code. There are no rules to my knowledge. I started writing some and yeah, it does work. I have no idea how many, how many other people are trying to actively look into Emacs security issues. It feels to me like it's like a handful at best, like I don't know, somewhere between three and five people maybe. And yeah. If anyone knows any rule sets for making this easier, I would be very interested, because then we'd have a common place to share them. Maybe it'd be appropriate for me to jump back in here and just share that, you know, you're somebody that I definitely trust with these issues. We could talk in the abstract at least about places where, you know, Emacs, not necessarily the Emacs team, but maybe more the Free Software Society has said, oh, somebody reached out to us about this possible concern. Can you dig into that and find out if there's, you know, any reason to be concerned and then find the right people on the Emacs project team and work with that. So I know that this is something you've been working on actually for, I don't want to say several years, but more than a year. All right. Any other person wants to share something? Otherwise we have about 15 minutes until the next talk is due to go live, which would leave us some time to do the closing remarks. Let's wait just a bit, let's give people 30 seconds maybe to connect their thoughts and share them on IRC or to join the BBB. So in the spirit of, you know, get it out of the way so that we can let people go to bed and not do our usual rambling two hours of open remarks where we regret that we didn't turn them into the open mic. Right. So hopefully everyone's getting the message that, you know, we love to talk about Emacs and if you've been to prior conferences, you're probably, and you've watched through the closing ceremonies, you may have noticed that we do, you know, We have a lot of fun talking about all the different ideas that have come forward here. And so this is realizing that and also realizing that our habit of talking for several hours as part of closing the conference is maybe keeping some of us up at night and jobs and things. So in that spirit, I just want to throw out And I you know, I like to talk about this at least once a year. I mean isn't here and I tend to defer to him It's so I'll also use this opportunity to say gosh. I miss that guy and thanks so much For all of you've done over the years. Yeah I'm sorry, you can't make it this year and I'm actually have personally having a lot of fun covering for me for you It gives me a A lot of little things that I've picked up how to do, I'm actually getting to do a little bit of. So fun stuff for me, but miss you. And in that spirit and thinking of you, Amin, I'll also say that, and that's Bandali, if you know him from IRC more. He would want us to make sure that we talk about the Free Software Foundation and the fact that that is giving to the Free Software Foundation as the primary means to support development of Emacs and other GNU packages. We, as a project, are part of the giving... Somebody help me with the name of the project. It's not in the... I'll just go back to it and even show it, right? So, we are part of the giving together or working together. A program, and you can, you can get through that. There may be some matching going on. There's a fundraiser also that happens to typically run during the conference currently. and I encourage you to become a member and there's some newer, lower amount. Also, you can get directly directed through this program to the Emacs conference. For the first time this year, we're actually using those funds. Sacha went and did a bunch of work to enable us to use some more scalable purchased infrastructure that's different from what the FSF just provides us, for example. We use a lot of different things and thanks also to Pearl and others who are providing us infrastructure, as well as Sacha for just the amazing work that you do there. And as well to people that are giving in some other way, such as your time contributed to the EMAX project, to the many cool packages I myself take advantage of. And all of that, don't please feel pressured to break the piggy bank when that's a bad idea to help out, but it's help when you can. All right, how about we start from the top of the closing remarks so that we make sure that we don't forget anyone or anything. So if you could scroll just a little bit over, Corbyn, on your screen. I think you went on the right one. It's a little small for me to see which one it is. No, I think it's the other pad. You had it open right before. I think it's Sunday Close, the other tab on your browser. I managed to meet myself in BBB. That's what happened there. Okay, sorry. So here, and you wanted up or down? I wanted up, just as soon as you see the dashed line. Run through these instead of Corwin getting his stuff out of the way. Word. Yeah, but I'll make sure to skip over the stuff that you already mentioned. But yes, let's try to preempt a little bit the end of the conference for the reasons I've mentioned before. I get first to thank you all so much for being part of Emacs Conf 2024. Obviously, we still have a handful more talks to go this afternoon, but thanks again for showing up. We've had steady numbers for the last five years or so. This is my fifth year. hosting the general track and we've always averaged between 150 to 200 viewers which is amazing when you just think about it but we We are accruing plenty more views over the years because everyone is watching either on the website or on YouTube or on PeerTube. So thank you so much for everyone taking the time to, well, first come to the show. To watch the video, to share it, absolutely. Yes, because we've just talked about viewers. If you're watching this a year from now, we're thanking you for the view. We're talking to you. If you're mentioning a video of the Society Maths Conference, Thanks for doing that. That's what makes this worth it. The thing that we have to talk about for hours after it ends every year, sorry about that if it's been a disruption for your schedule, is the sense of community that we feel when we come together and watch all the different chats running on all these. I have a bunch of screens going so that I can see all the different chats and we all have a different way of connecting to all the different conversations going on. It's just a lot of energy. But at the end of the day, it's about helping people connect with the other groups and subgroups of people that are excited about the same stuff using Emacs to get there. Yeah, definitely. A word on those recordings, because we mentioned the previous year's videos, but when it comes to this conference, the videos, most of the pre-recording and most of the talk that we had except one this year, they are already available on emaxconf-.org, the website. You can also find them on the YouTube account for emaxconf, they're fairly easy to find. We'll try to get them on PeerTube at some point. We are not sure when. But the rule is, right now, we are going to take some time. Go on, Sacha, if you want. There are two things already. I should put a URL to the channel in. Okay, sure. So, Sacha will take care of this. But all the pre-recordings are already available with the subtitles when we manage to receive them sufficiently early. And if not, it'll take maybe a couple of days for us to get them out there. But yes, the pre-recordings are there. When it comes to the live Q&A, so the little sessions you've seen us do live when we were on BBB asking questions to the speakers and also having people join in the discussion, this will take a little more time for us to publish them because we like to follow a process of captioning them and making sure we take all the questions and all the answers from the pad and centralize everything on the website. So this is a process that takes about two to three weeks and we are not putting a lot of pressure on us to do this. If there is anything you're dying to see you'll have to wait a little bit but we'll try to make sure to make the information available as soon as we can. So Let me read the notes just to make sure we're not forgetting anything. Yes, when it comes to the publishing process, if you want to keep in touch and know when something is going to be released, we will announce all of this on the emacsconf-discuss mailing list, so emacsconf-discuss. You'll be able to find the link on the website as well and it's already on the pad that we are sharing currently on the screen. So obviously we'd be very happy to get some feedback from you on the conference and you can do this on this pad. We'll mention this at the end of the day again so that you get a chance to watch the last few talks of the conference and mention your thoughts on this but yeah we are very open to feedback. Part of the reason why It feels like a well-oiled machine, EmacsConf, is the fact that we've been iterating over the process for many years at this point. We'll get to the thanking to Sacha for the automation and to other volunteers for all their work, but really, it's really the feedback that you give us that allows us to refine the process of running the conference. And if it looks smooth and all this, well, it's mostly thanks to you, because what you believe was smooth, you mentioned as a feedback, and then we try to adapt our own processes so that we can match the level of smoothness that you expected. So thank you so much. Part of the success of EmacsConf is definitely on you. So again, if you've got feedback, please include them in the pad. When it comes to the stats, as I mentioned, we are usually averaging between 150 and 200 viewers. And this year, on the two tracks, we managed somehow to peak higher on the Dev track than on the Gen track, which is a first for the last five years. So that's an interesting tidbit of knowledge for you. But yeah, overall we had perhaps 300 viewers total between the channels, which is amazing because you've got 300 people watching you live present and so that's a rich experience. All right, moving to the thanking section. We have plenty of people to thank without whom this conference would not be possible. First, I'd like to thank all the speakers, all the volunteers, the participants, and all the other people in our lives who make it possible through time and support to run this conference. Obviously, the speakers I've already mentioned, volunteers, you have some of them in the room right now. We've got Corwin, we've got Sacha, we also have Flowy, but we also have plenty of captioners in the background, whom I will get to in just a little while. This year's conference hosts are myself, Leo Vivier, and Corwin Brust and well not technically not FlowyCoder, not yet at least. Flowy, as you know, joined us last year and has been running check-ins in the background and we are very thankful for his contributions and maybe this afternoon he might be able to come. This is a fun process if you want to imagine what it's like for us backstage. Imagine, you know, Flowy's like getting everybody warmed up, goes in, talks to, gets a conversation going, everybody's ready, you know, the video is playing of the live stream, he's doing the warm hand up, everything ready, checking everything out. And then he hands the torch to Leo, or maybe me, and then we get to come in and have this amazing conversation based on all the buzz that's just been built up, knowing everything works out great. And one of these times, what Leo is telling you is that Flowy's just going to give Leo or me the cold shoulder and do the hosting himself. He did a great job with that last year, and we're looking forward to more of that. All right, I'll do a quick fire of thankings because we need to soon move on to the next talk of the day. I'd also like obviously to thank Sacha for managing the two streams and the one stream today because she's in the background making sure that everything goes all right for all our automation. And obviously Flowy again for the check-ins. I want also to thank, to extend my thankings, to the proposal review volunteers James Howell, Jean-Christophe Helary, and others for helping with the early acceptance process. I mentioned them, the captioning volunteers, Mark Lewin, Rodrigo Morales, Anoush, annona, and James Howell, and some speakers who captioned their own talks. I'm thinking about Eduardo especially. I guess thanks to me, be weird for me to read this, but I'm still going to do this, for fiddling with the audio and getting things nicely synced. For those who do not know, I also manage, I make sure that the audio is normalized, cleaned up, and all this for the conference, and usually it's one of the few things that Sacha doesn't like doing, and I'm very happy to pick the little crumbs to make sure that Emacs is as cool as it can get. Also thanks to Bhavin Gandhi, Christopher Howard, Joseph Turner and Screwless for quality checking the videos in the backstage. Thanks obviously to Shoshin for the music that has been accompanying us during the breaks. We've mentioned him already, but thanks to Amin Bandali for help with infrastructure and communication. Thanks to Ry P for the server that we're using for OBS streaming and for processing the videos. That's part of the reason why we are able to get the titles out so fast. And Corwin already mentioned the FSF but thanks to the Free Software Foundation for Emacs itself, the mailing list, media.emacs.org server where we host the conferences. We might have a little word about donations and funding the FSF later in the afternoon. I'll make sure that Corbyn gets to it. But finally, thanks to the many users and commuters to the project and team that create all the awesome free software that we use, especially BigBlueButton, Etherpad, IceCast, OBS, The Lounge, LiberaChat, FFmpeg, OpenAI, Whisper, WhisperX, and the Aeneas Forced Alignment Tool site transfer sub. Anyway, we're going to get started with the next talk of the day. We'll continue with the thankings later on. Enjoy the conference. Thanks for tuning in, really appreciate you. All right, we are off air. So I will go back to Mumble now. All right. That was pretty good. That was good, right? I think that was good. I'm glad we did that. Thank you for that. I'm hoping we would do. Yeah, sorry. For the people who are still in chat, right now we are moving to the next live talk, so feel free to join us later. We might stay in this room, we do not know, but we'll see you later anyway. Okay, bye-bye.

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