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2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
Teaching computer and data science with literate programming tools
https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/teaching/
Copyright © 2023 Marcus Birkenkrahe
2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
2023-10-03T19:31:38Z
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<h1>Teaching computer and data science with literate programming tools</h1>
<p>Marcus Birkenkrahe - Faculty website <a href="https://www.lyon.edu/marcus-birkenkrahe">https://www.lyon.edu/marcus-birkenkrahe</a> - LinkedIn <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/birkenkrahe">https://www.linkedin.com/in/birkenkrahe</a> - Twitter (X) <a href="https://twitter.com/birkenkrahe">https://twitter.com/birkenkrahe</a> - Researchgate.net <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Marcus-Birkenkrahe">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Marcus-Birkenkrahe</a> - Google Scholar <a href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Vvnwsv0AAAAJ&hl=en">https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Vvnwsv0AAAAJ&hl=en</a> - ORCID <a href="https://orcid.org/my-orcid?orcid=0000-0001-9461-8474">https://orcid.org/my-orcid?orcid=0000-0001-9461-8474</a> - Wikipedia <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Birkenkrahe">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Birkenkrahe</a>, <a href="mailto:birkenkrahe@lyon.edu">birkenkrahe@lyon.edu</a></p>
<p>Format: 20-min talk; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room<br />
Status: TO_INDEX_QA</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="teaching-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main.vtt" default />"""<track kind="chapters" label="Chapters" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main--chapters.vtt" /><p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><pre class="chapters" data-target="teaching-mainVideo">
<p>00:00.000 Introduction
00:54.160 My interest in this topic
02:08.040 What is data science?
03:47.640 Computer science is a craft
04:52.840 The problem
05:36.560 The solution: Emacs + Org-mode
06:24.120 Emacs configuration file
07:30.360 Story + code = source + documentation
08:22.040 What is literate programming?
09:59.880 Emacs as a literate programming tool
11:18.960 Case study: basic setup
12:11.280 Emacs + Org-mode notebooks
12:45.800 Onboarding: simplified Emacs tutorial
13:40.840 Instruction + interaction
14:48.720 Assignments + projects
16:15.280 Overall results positive
18:19.800 Conclusion & outlook</p>
</pre>
<div></div>Duration: 19:27 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--intro.vtt">Download --intro.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--intro.webm">Download --intro.webm</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main--chapters.vtt">Download --main--chapters.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main.opus">Download --main.opus (14MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--main.webm">Download --main.webm (44MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--pad.html">Download --pad.html</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--pad.md">Download --pad.md</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe.odp">Download .odp (15MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe.org">Download .org</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe.pdf">Download .pdf (2.9MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe.pptx">Download .pptx (15MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/b4eLjcLo9vcewVTzrv95L8">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="teaching-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="teaching-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div>Duration: 42:23 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.json">Download --answers.json (1.8MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (22MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a> (unedited)</li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (199MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
<p><details class="help"><summary>Help wanted: Q&A could be indexed with chapter markers </summary></p>
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<p></details></p>
<p>I present a case study on using Emacs and Org-mode for literate
programming in undergraduate computer and data science courses. Use of
Emacs was obligatory in courses covering R, Python, C/C++, SQL, and more.
Onboarding relied on simplified Emacs tutorials and starter configurations.
Sessions involved live coding, and assignments and projects required
Org-mode notebooks. I will present the setup, the results, and provide
insight into my ongoing work with Emacs in the classroom. Especially in
AI-assisted teaching, literate programming tools will become even more
important, and Emacs and Org-mode will have a new role to play. Most
importantly, using Emacs consistently for all classwork imparts deep
infrastructure and computing knowledge that other tools often obfuscate.</p>
<ul>
<li>Outline (tentative):
<ol>
<li>Introduction to the speaker and the case study</li>
<li>Teaching computer and data science today</li>
<li>The rationale for using Emacs as an IDE</li>
<li>The rationale for using Org-mode for literate programming</li>
<li>Case study: purpose, content, technology, results</li>
<li>Challenges and lessons learnt</li>
<li>Literate programming in the age of low code and AI</li>
<li>Conclusions and outlook</li>
</ol>
</li>
</ul>
<p>About the speaker:</p>
<p>Associate Professor of Computer and Data Science at Lyon College in
Batesville, AR. He joined the Lyon faculty in 2021, on leave of absence
from the Berlin School of Economics and Law. He earned a PhD in theoretical
physics (lattice gauge theory). He has published widely in different areas,
including: neural nets, multigrid applications, knowledge management,
e-learning, literate programming, process modeling, and data science. He is
associate editor of the International Journal of Data Science, editorial
board member of the International Journal of Big Data Management, and
corresponding member of the Institute for Data-Driven Digital
Transformation (d-cube) in Berlin, Germany. Emacs user since ca. 1990.</p>
<p>This talk is based on a recent publication with the same title
(Birkenkrahe, 2023; <a href="https://doi.org/10.3390/digital3030015">doi.org/10.3390/digital3030015</a>).</p>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Feedback</h2>
<ul>
<li>at my company new helpdesk analysts seem to suffer from the same symptoms of not fully understanding comp architecture. I guess i will have to teach them emacs...</li>
<li>Very interesting talk, thank you!</li>
<li>Great talk, thanks.</li>
<li>Well done!</li>
<li>Very important point to teach CS: immersion. Nothing better than emacs for that.</li>
<li>Emacs is <em>great</em> for beginners (on CS): it makes them think programatically on their environment.</li>
</ul>
<h2>Notes</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.mdpi.com/2673-6470/3/3/15">https://www.mdpi.com/2673-6470/3/3/15</a></li>
<li>Data Science: intersection of math, comp sci, domain knowledge</li>
<li>I like the idea you use this method to write every piece of your
code. It's so easy for me to just ask llm a piece of code, run it
and forget about it. I will try to improve this type of way to write
code.</li>
<li>Students were able to use Emacs competently with 1 week (did I hear
that right?) of practice
<ul>
<li>This is quit counter-intuitive.</li>
<li>I picked up Emacs 3 years ago, and through immersion was up to
previous competency parity in about a week or so.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Org Remark allows you to highlight in org mode documents, If you
pair that with org web tools you can highliht an offline web page
backup with highlights in org mode</li>
<li>CRDT.el -- allows multiple people with their own emacs config to
edit a hosted Emacs buffer</li>
<li>Just use one of the Emacs chatgpt or other LLM interfaces instead of
leaving for Jupyter notebooks.</li>
<li>"The AI advantage [of Jupyter notebooks] does not make up for the
loss of immersion that Emacs and Org-Mode provides. [Immersion is
a important]"</li>
</ul>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: What tool(s) do you use for making your slides; they are very
nice. Would be great to get a template.
<ul>
<li>A: org-reveal</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Why MDPI? <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":)" />
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Do you think immersion can be achieve on teaching other students
with differnet backgrounds?
<ul>
<li>A:
<ul>
<li>yeh, exactly, kinda risky for young teacher.
<ul>
<li>Actually, may depend on the uni. AFAIK, MIT style they
promote is full of workshops/handson classes with more
limited lectures.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Do some of your students nag you about using VSCode? I teach
simple programming at a vocational school and even after showing the
students vim, Emacs and nano and telling them that I prefer Emacs
and also showing them code inside code blocks in Org mode and using
Emacs in every class I teach, they still all chose VSCode as their
editor. (I let them choose.) It seems like they are brainwashed
somehow... Is the success in the obligatory use of Emacs?
<ul>
<li>A: I observe the same behavior
<ul>
<li>"The arguments from beginners for VS Code aren't strong";
appreciate the fact that immersion is the goal and the
constraints of Emacs as required pushes towards immersion.
(Thank you for your answer!)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Having more tutorials on Emacs/Org mode would be most welcome
(yantar92 aka Org contributor)
<ul>
<li>If you make more videos, share them on
<a href="https://orgmode.org/worg/">[https://orgmode.org/worg/]{.underline}</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: I'm curious about your approach to handling EDA, particularly
with wide datasets that have numerous columns. Given the constraints
of Emacs which might not be optimal for viewing large tables, could
you share how you navigate and explore such datasets efficiently? Do
you integrate any specific Emacs tools or external methods to
streamline this process?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
<li>I know that John Kitchin is working with remote DFT
calculations - Tbs of data to visualize.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Do you have a startup emacs configuration for your students?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: (from chat) Fantastic talk, thank you. I realise that it will be
difficult to provide an accurate answer, but what proportion of your
students do you think will keep on using Emacs after your courses?</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="teaching-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:00:00.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Introduction</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.000" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Welcome to my talk, which is pre-recorded,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:04.520" data-start="00:00:04.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">so please don't blame me if I come across</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.960" data-start="00:00:06.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">as wooden and humorless.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:08.600" data-start="00:00:08.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">It's hard to work up any emotion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:11.320" data-start="00:00:11.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">when looking at a mechanical eye.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:13.880" data-start="00:00:13.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Of course, I am German,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:15.040" data-start="00:00:15.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">so I am pretty wooden and humorless to begin with.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:18.640" data-start="00:00:18.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">What else do you need to know about me?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:20.440" data-start="00:00:20.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Not much, I suppose, except that I have been</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:23.320" data-start="00:00:23.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">an Emacs user on and off</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:25.200" data-start="00:00:25.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">since my days as a graduate student</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.920" data-start="00:00:26.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in theoretical physics in the 1990s.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.080" data-start="00:00:30.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I picked Emacs and Org Mode up again</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:34.680" data-start="00:00:34.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for teaching during COVID</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:36.240" data-start="00:00:36.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">when I had a lot of time on my hands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:38.040" data-start="00:00:38.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and when the teaching and learning needs shifted</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:40.360" data-start="00:00:40.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">because of the exclusive online teaching.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:44.240" data-start="00:00:44.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now I'm going to take my picture away.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:48.200" data-start="00:00:48.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">You had a good look at me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:49.560" data-start="00:00:49.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I think that's just going to be in the way.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:54.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:00:54.160]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:54.160" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">My interest in this topic</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:54.160" data-start="00:00:54.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So my interest in this topic began with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:57.280" data-start="00:00:57.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">an Emacs talk given by Daniel German</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:59.280" data-start="00:00:59.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from the University of Victoria in Canada in 2021.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:04.120" data-start="00:01:04.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Daniel demonstrated in detail</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.440" data-start="00:01:06.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">how he uses Emacs and Org Mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.200" data-start="00:01:09.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to prepare and deliver lectures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:12.120" data-start="00:01:12.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">on different programming languages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:14.200" data-start="00:01:14.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">This gave me the idea to try the same thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:16.320" data-start="00:01:16.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">with my students with an important alteration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.000" data-start="00:01:20.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I wanted to force them to use Emacs and Org Mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:23.560" data-start="00:01:23.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">just as most computer science instructors</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.960" data-start="00:01:25.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">force their students to use whatever they are using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:29.080" data-start="00:01:29.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">when they develop their material.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.360" data-start="00:01:32.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I carried my plan out and mandated Emacs and Org Mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.840" data-start="00:01:36.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">as the only programming platform and IDE</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:40.360" data-start="00:01:40.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for three consecutive terms in all my courses,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:43.640" data-start="00:01:43.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">nine courses in total.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.920" data-start="00:01:45.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I will give more details later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:47.800" data-start="00:01:47.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I published my results as a case study</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:49.920" data-start="00:01:49.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in September of this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:52.280" data-start="00:01:52.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and it contains the missing bits</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.640" data-start="00:01:53.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that I will not talk about today for lack of time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:56.160" data-start="00:01:56.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">especially regarding the methodology,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:58.640" data-start="00:01:58.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">the assessment, et cetera.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:00.120" data-start="00:02:00.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Please also use the Q&A to inquire about such details</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:05.000" data-start="00:02:05.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">if they interest you.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:08.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:02:08.040]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:08.040" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">What is data science?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:02:08.040" data-start="00:02:08.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I probably don't have to explain what computer science is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.800" data-start="00:02:12.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but not everyone may know what data science does.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:16.360" data-start="00:02:16.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I teach courses in both disciplines</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:18.240" data-start="00:02:18.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and the boundaries between them are blurred,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:20.560" data-start="00:02:20.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">so much of what I'm saying about data science</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:22.640" data-start="00:02:22.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">will also be relevant for computer science.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.720" data-start="00:02:24.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Conceptually, data science is an interdisciplinary affair</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:29.360" data-start="00:02:29.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that intersects with computer science</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:32.000" data-start="00:02:32.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and with whatever it is that the data scientist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:34.960" data-start="00:02:34.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">or his or her clients know very well; their domain.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.160" data-start="00:02:39.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Because of this interdisciplinary character,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:42.680" data-start="00:02:42.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and because their focus is on the data</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:45.400" data-start="00:02:45.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">rather than only on algorithms or mathematics,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.120" data-start="00:02:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">successful data scientists need to be more broadly educated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:52.720" data-start="00:02:52.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">than specialists in computer science or statistics.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:56.200" data-start="00:02:56.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In particular, there's a need to master</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.520" data-start="00:03:00.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">the entire so-called data science pipeline:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:03.480" data-start="00:03:03.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from data cleaning, which you see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.080" data-start="00:03:06.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">on the very left in this slide,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:08.880" data-start="00:03:08.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">over coding, to statistical modeling,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:12.120" data-start="00:03:12.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and to data storytelling through visualization,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:14.720" data-start="00:03:14.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which you see on the very right.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:17.160" data-start="00:03:17.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">This is why until recently,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:19.080" data-start="00:03:19.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">data science was a graduate-level education</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.120" data-start="00:03:22.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">only for software engineers, computer scientists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.880" data-start="00:03:25.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">statisticians, psychologists, biologists, business people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:31.680" data-start="00:03:31.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">or for whoever took a special fancy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:34.280" data-start="00:03:34.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to data in their chosen field.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:37.720" data-start="00:03:37.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Only with a growing interest in machine learning,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:40.040" data-start="00:03:40.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">this has changed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.000" data-start="00:03:42.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And now we train--or try to train--data scientists</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:45.600" data-start="00:03:45.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in undergraduate programs as well.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:47.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:03:47.640]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:47.640" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Computer science is a craft</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:03:47.640" data-start="00:03:47.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now, what I'm saying here, I think is true</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:52.400" data-start="00:03:52.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for all areas of computing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:54.200" data-start="00:03:54.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from software engineering to data science.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:56.960" data-start="00:03:56.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They are mostly taught and learned like a craft</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:00.640" data-start="00:04:00.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">rather than a science, not through research,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.680" data-start="00:04:03.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but through drill.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:04.680" data-start="00:04:04.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The elements of this drill can be illustrated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:07.800" data-start="00:04:07.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">by learning how to fix cars.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:09.960" data-start="00:04:09.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They include taking a problem apart</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:12.760" data-start="00:04:12.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">with the tools you already know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:14.120" data-start="00:04:14.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">learn a lot more tools in the process of doing that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:18.240" data-start="00:04:18.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">then solve many, many problems</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:20.640" data-start="00:04:20.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">of increasing difficulty</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:22.200" data-start="00:04:22.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">while being or getting more literate, as it were,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:25.720" data-start="00:04:25.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">about the mechanics of computing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.920" data-start="00:04:27.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">including the hardware, the infrastructure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:30.760" data-start="00:04:30.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and finally develop a way of thinking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:32.640" data-start="00:04:32.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that allows the learner to identify patterns</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:35.520" data-start="00:04:35.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to solve new problems better and faster.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:39.720" data-start="00:04:39.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Unlike learning how to fix cars,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:42.480" data-start="00:04:42.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">all of the objects of our interest--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:44.440" data-start="00:04:44.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">both hardware and software--are evolving rapidly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:48.720" data-start="00:04:48.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In this field, radical innovation is the rule,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:51.520" data-start="00:04:51.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">not the exception.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:52.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:04:52.840]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:52.840" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The problem</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.840" data-start="00:04:52.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The problem that I identified is that students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.680" data-start="00:04:58.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">especially undergraduate students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:00.800" data-start="00:05:00.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in computer and data science,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:02.400" data-start="00:05:02.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">often do no longer understand the infrastructure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:06.440" data-start="00:05:06.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Here are a few examples of the problems</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:08.920" data-start="00:05:08.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that the students seem to have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:10.080" data-start="00:05:10.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They do not understand computer architecture,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:13.600" data-start="00:05:13.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">except in theory.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:14.600" data-start="00:05:14.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They cannot navigate their way around their own computers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:18.520" data-start="00:05:18.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They don't understand the value or the issues of networks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:22.320" data-start="00:05:22.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They are often more interested in convenience</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:25.080" data-start="00:05:25.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">than in customization of the environment.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.280" data-start="00:05:28.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">As a result, the machines which we're meant to control</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:31.840" data-start="00:05:31.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">have all the power--though passively,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:35.080" data-start="00:05:35.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">of course, for now anyway.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:36.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:05:36.560]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:36.560" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The solution: Emacs + Org-mode</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.560" data-start="00:05:36.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Enter Emacs, the self-extensible operating system</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:43.680" data-start="00:05:43.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">disguised as a text editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:46.000" data-start="00:05:46.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">You're at EmacsConf, so of course I don't have to tell you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:51.000" data-start="00:05:51.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">what Emacs can do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:52.200" data-start="00:05:52.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Here's a rundown on the right-hand side</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.320" data-start="00:05:54.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">of some of its most important properties,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.760" data-start="00:05:56.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and an Org Mode file excerpt</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:58.960" data-start="00:05:58.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from one of my classes on the left.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:00.520" data-start="00:06:00.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">What you may not know is how to onboard students who have,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:05.240" data-start="00:06:05.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">at the start, no interest whatsoever</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:07.440" data-start="00:06:07.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in leaving their comfort zone,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:08.920" data-start="00:06:08.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which is defined by a lifetime of Windows,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:12.400" data-start="00:06:12.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">pre-configured graphical interfaces, and software bloat.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.320" data-start="00:06:16.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In fact, when I started this, I wasn't very hopeful,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:19.680" data-start="00:06:19.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but the results have made me even more optimistic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:22.400" data-start="00:06:22.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">than I already am by nature.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:24.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:06:24.120]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:24.120" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Emacs configuration file</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:06:24.120" data-start="00:06:24.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So to rein in your expectations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:28.840" data-start="00:06:28.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">you cannot do entirely without</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:31.840" data-start="00:06:31.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">configuring the student's experience.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:33.800" data-start="00:06:33.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">An important part of this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.280" data-start="00:06:35.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">is the initial Emacs configuration shown here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:38.000" data-start="00:06:38.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The minimal configuration file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:40.640" data-start="00:06:40.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which you can see on the right-hand side,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:42.200" data-start="00:06:42.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">allows the students to run code in C and C++, R, SQL,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:46.680" data-start="00:06:46.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">SQLite, Python, and Bash.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.600" data-start="00:06:48.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">It will allow them to update Emacs packages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:52.560" data-start="00:06:52.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from the stable Melpa repository,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:55.040" data-start="00:06:55.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and it will allow them to create code blocks easily</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:58.600" data-start="00:06:58.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">using skeleton commands for code blocks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:01.920" data-start="00:07:01.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and to auto-load the Emacs Speaks Statistics package,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:06.280" data-start="00:07:06.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which you particularly need when you run R in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:09.760" data-start="00:07:09.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and lastly, to disable toolbar and graphical menu bars.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:14.400" data-start="00:07:14.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">To do that encourages the exclusive use of the keyboard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:19.000" data-start="00:07:19.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to control Emacs, and to stop the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:23.200" data-start="00:07:23.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from flicking all the time to the mouse;</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:25.840" data-start="00:07:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">seems to be an essential part of getting used to Emacs.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:30.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:07:30.360]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:30.360" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Story + code = source + documentation</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:07:30.360" data-start="00:07:30.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now Org Mode was included in Emacs in 2006 as a major mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.840" data-start="00:07:38.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and as you know, it's a structured plain text format</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:41.960" data-start="00:07:41.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">with notebook live code execution.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:45.040" data-start="00:07:45.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">It's an ideal platform for literate programming,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:47.840" data-start="00:07:47.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which is a term for programming that intermingles code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:52.360" data-start="00:07:52.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">documentation, and output within a single document,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.840" data-start="00:07:55.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and that can, as you can see here from an org file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.520" data-start="00:07:59.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">either be tangled into source code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:02.560" data-start="00:08:02.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">or woven into a documentation file, which could be PDF,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:07.000" data-start="00:08:07.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">could be Markdown, could be OpenOffice,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:11.040" data-start="00:08:11.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">could be a notebook format.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:13.920" data-start="00:08:13.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">This methodology was conceived by Donald Knuth in 1984,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:18.480" data-start="00:08:18.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and it is therefore even older than Emacs itself.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:22.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:08:22.040]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:22.040" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">What is literate programming?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.040" data-start="00:08:22.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The main purpose of literate programming is not only</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:27.200" data-start="00:08:27.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to make code or documentation or output more manageable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:31.120" data-start="00:08:31.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but to allow humans to create a data story with ease</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:34.760" data-start="00:08:34.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from a single source.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:37.200" data-start="00:08:37.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So what you see on the slide on the left-hand side</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:40.360" data-start="00:08:40.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">is the story and code inside a Org Mode file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:45.480" data-start="00:08:45.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The file starts with some documentation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:49.480" data-start="00:08:49.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">then with the white background is the code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:52.520" data-start="00:08:52.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and at the bottom you see an output file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.240" data-start="00:08:56.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which is not shown here on the slide itself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:00.160" data-start="00:09:00.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In the middle, you have the source code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:02.840" data-start="00:09:02.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which is the result of tangling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:05.760" data-start="00:09:05.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">or of opening a buffer inside org-mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:10.800" data-start="00:09:10.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And on the very right-hand side, you have a PDF--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:16.120" data-start="00:09:16.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">actually this HTML rendering of the very same file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:20.160" data-start="00:09:20.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that you see on the very left.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:22.600" data-start="00:09:22.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So the humans look at some of this code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:26.480" data-start="00:09:26.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and the machines will look at other parts of the code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:29.880" data-start="00:09:29.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I actually did all my programming in a literate way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:33.360" data-start="00:09:33.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">even in the early 1990s, not using org-mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:35.960" data-start="00:09:35.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which didn't exist yet,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:36.800" data-start="00:09:36.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but using Norman Ramsey's Noweb preprocessor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:40.320" data-start="00:09:40.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And I still use it inside org-mode today.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:43.400" data-start="00:09:43.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">This preprocessor, Noweb, allows you to tangle code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.440" data-start="00:09:47.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from within an org-mode file that's a self-standing file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:50.080" data-start="00:09:50.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">much like org-mode's edit functions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:52.800" data-start="00:09:52.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which export code blocks into buffers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:55.640" data-start="00:09:55.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in whatever language the code block is written.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:59.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:09:59.880]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:59.880" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Emacs as a literate programming tool</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:09:59.880" data-start="00:09:59.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In data science, these interactive notebooks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:02.720" data-start="00:10:02.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in one of the interpreted languages like Julia,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:06.000" data-start="00:10:06.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Python, or R dominate.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:07.840" data-start="00:10:07.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The basis technology,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:10.240" data-start="00:10:10.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">is that of Jupyter notebooks, which take their name</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:12.760" data-start="00:10:12.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from Julia, Python, and R.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:14.440" data-start="00:10:14.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And these notebooks use a spruced-up shell (for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:19.200" data-start="00:10:19.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">IPython for Python) with an option to add SQL cells.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:23.080" data-start="00:10:23.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Org Mode inside Emacs has a large number of advantages--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:28.080" data-start="00:10:28.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">some of them are listed here--over these notebooks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:31.480" data-start="00:10:31.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Two of these stand out particularly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:33.680" data-start="00:10:33.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Different languages can be mixed, as shown in the image,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:39.440" data-start="00:10:39.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">while in Jupyter notebooks, a notebook is limited to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:43.440" data-start="00:10:43.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">running a kernel in one language only.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:45.640" data-start="00:10:45.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So the content of the notebook--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:48.160" data-start="00:10:48.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">its document code or output part--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:50.320" data-start="00:10:50.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">can be exported in a variety of formats,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:52.880" data-start="00:10:52.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which makes it much easier to share with others</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:55.480" data-start="00:10:55.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and to use one's work in different reporting formats;</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:58.480" data-start="00:10:58.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for example, to read it out into a LaTeX publication.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:02.400" data-start="00:11:02.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Actually, to come back to this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.320" data-start="00:11:08.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">the file does not show different languages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:11.040" data-start="00:11:11.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">That is something you can see in a paper of mine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:14.160" data-start="00:11:14.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in one of the figures.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:18.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:11:18.960]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:18.960" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Case study: basic setup</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:11:18.960" data-start="00:11:18.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now, coming to the case study itself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:22.720" data-start="00:11:22.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">here are some of the overall results of the case study.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:25.040" data-start="00:11:25.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now, the courses ranged from introductory to advanced,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:29.040" data-start="00:11:29.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">as you can see here in the table on the left-hand side.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:32.040" data-start="00:11:32.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The topics covered different programming applications.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:37.200" data-start="00:11:37.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The courses were taught</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.680" data-start="00:11:38.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">over a period of three consecutive terms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:41.040" data-start="00:11:41.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">There was between 6 and 28 participants per course.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:45.840" data-start="00:11:45.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I used a few other tools besides Emacs:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.240" data-start="00:11:49.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">GitHub as the main repository for all the material,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:51.920" data-start="00:11:51.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Datacamp for structured online lessons and exercises,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:55.240" data-start="00:11:55.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Canvas as a learning management system,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:57.360" data-start="00:11:57.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and Zoom to record the sessions for later use.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.920" data-start="00:12:00.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now, the material for all these courses</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.280" data-start="00:12:03.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">is openly available on GitHub,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:05.400" data-start="00:12:05.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and the address is on the slide at the bottom.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:11.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:12:11.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:11.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Emacs + Org-mode notebooks</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:12:11.280" data-start="00:12:11.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I'm now going to briefly comment on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.880" data-start="00:12:15.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">the most important aspects of using Emacs and Org Mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:18.800" data-start="00:12:18.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in and outside of class.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:20.120" data-start="00:12:20.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Essentially, these two--Emacs and Org Mode--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:24.040" data-start="00:12:24.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">were used all the time for almost everything</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:26.240" data-start="00:12:26.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that the students were doing in and outside of class.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:29.240" data-start="00:12:29.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The only exception were multiple choice tests</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:32.320" data-start="00:12:32.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and online assignments</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:34.040" data-start="00:12:34.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">on the Datacamp learning platform</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.600" data-start="00:12:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in the data science courses.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:37.200" data-start="00:12:37.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">But everything else--code-along lectures, home assignments,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:40.000" data-start="00:12:40.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">student projects, practice in class--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:42.440" data-start="00:12:42.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">was done with these two tools.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:45.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:12:45.800]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:45.800" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Onboarding: simplified Emacs tutorial</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:12:45.800" data-start="00:12:45.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">To facilitate the onboarding,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:48.000" data-start="00:12:48.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">so to get students used to Emacs in the first place,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.000" data-start="00:12:51.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I developed a simplified Emacs tutorial,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:53.280" data-start="00:12:53.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which was focused on the basics of literate programming.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.520" data-start="00:12:56.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">It included navigation in major modes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:00.000" data-start="00:13:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">managing files and buffers, customizing the interface,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:02.840" data-start="00:13:02.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and keyboard shortcuts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:04.040" data-start="00:13:04.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">It was considerably shorter;</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:06.320" data-start="00:13:06.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">about a quarter of the size of the standard Emacs tutorial,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:12.880" data-start="00:13:12.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which contains a lot more stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:14.320" data-start="00:13:14.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">As a result of this onboarding,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:16.760" data-start="00:13:16.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">by the end of the second week,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:18.280" data-start="00:13:18.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">most students were able</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:19.920" data-start="00:13:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to use Emacs and Org Mode competently</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:22.640" data-start="00:13:22.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for their assignments in and outside of class,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:25.080" data-start="00:13:25.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">completely independent of their previous exposure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:29.640" data-start="00:13:29.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to any of these tools.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:31.200" data-start="00:13:31.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Most of the students, in fact, had never heard of Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:35.400" data-start="00:13:35.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">All the classes were taught physically in a computer lab.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:40.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:13:40.840]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:40.840" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Instruction + interaction</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:13:40.840" data-start="00:13:40.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Emacs with Org Mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:42.760" data-start="00:13:42.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and the necessary languages for the class</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:45.480" data-start="00:13:45.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">were pre-installed on the computers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:47.360" data-start="00:13:47.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The computers ran Windows, unfortunately,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:50.200" data-start="00:13:50.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">like most of the students' personal computers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:52.760" data-start="00:13:52.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">A typical class involved a lecture delivered by me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:57.480" data-start="00:13:57.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in Emacs as a code-along.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:59.160" data-start="00:13:59.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The students would get an Org Mode file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.560" data-start="00:14:01.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">with all the code removed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:03.400" data-start="00:14:03.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">You can see an example here</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:04.600" data-start="00:14:04.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">on the slide on the right-hand side.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:06.800" data-start="00:14:06.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">This example is actually only one line of code in blue,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:12.240" data-start="00:14:12.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">visible at the bottom for an award file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:15.040" data-start="00:14:15.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Then the students submitted home assignments</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:17.920" data-start="00:14:17.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">also as Org Mode files, complete with documentation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.160" data-start="00:14:21.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">code and sample output.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:23.480" data-start="00:14:23.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Working this way makes the classes highly interactive.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:27.000" data-start="00:14:27.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So the students are busy coding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:28.880" data-start="00:14:28.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and they learn to control their environment better</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:31.640" data-start="00:14:31.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">all the time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:34.920" data-start="00:14:34.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In my classes, the students have to complete</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:38.600" data-start="00:14:38.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">an independent, agile research project</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:41.360" data-start="00:14:41.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">using an adaptation of Scrum as a methodology.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:44.240" data-start="00:14:44.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">You can find examples of these rather high-octane projects</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:48.080" data-start="00:14:48.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in my paper.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:14:48.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:14:48.720]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:14:48.720" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Assignments + projects</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:14:48.720" data-start="00:14:48.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Now, using literate programming for the projects</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:52.680" data-start="00:14:52.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">provided some unique benefits.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:54.400" data-start="00:14:54.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">By having to continuously interweave documentation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:57.960" data-start="00:14:57.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">references and output alongside functional code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:01.600" data-start="00:15:01.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">the students learn to communicate their work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:04.320" data-start="00:15:04.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">throughout the term</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:05.600" data-start="00:15:05.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in various stages of completion,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:07.560" data-start="00:15:07.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from the research question at the start,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.840" data-start="00:15:09.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">over the prototype to the finished product.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:12.880" data-start="00:15:12.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And here on the right-hand side,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:15.000" data-start="00:15:15.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">you can see one of those assignments</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:17.480" data-start="00:15:17.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that the students received,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:18.840" data-start="00:15:18.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">including some of the metadata for their Org Mode files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:24.960" data-start="00:15:24.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in the beginning of the course.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:26.160" data-start="00:15:26.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Here are two graphs that I created early on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.600" data-start="00:15:32.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">when I started doing this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:34.320" data-start="00:15:34.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">They show how the test results of the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.440" data-start="00:15:36.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">in two different courses, actually three courses,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:39.640" data-start="00:15:39.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">changed from before to after</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:41.720" data-start="00:15:41.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">introducing literate programming with Emacs and Org Mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:45.920" data-start="00:15:45.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So you see the before and after</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:49.560" data-start="00:15:49.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">introducing literate programming in the red curve before</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:53.480" data-start="00:15:53.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and the blue curve afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:54.920" data-start="00:15:54.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And the improvement, especially on the right-hand side,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:58.520" data-start="00:15:58.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">is quite significant.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:59.720" data-start="00:15:59.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">It was this performance improvement,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:02.000" data-start="00:16:02.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">apart from the students who were voicing their support,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:05.120" data-start="00:16:05.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that made me extend the Emacs experiment</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:08.000" data-start="00:16:08.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">after the first term</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:09.160" data-start="00:16:09.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and continue for the following two terms.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:15.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:16:15.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:15.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Overall results positive</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.280" data-start="00:16:15.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The courses... Coming to the result, the overall result...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:18.840" data-start="00:16:18.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The courses were formally and informally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:21.000" data-start="00:16:21.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">also evaluated by the students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:23.120" data-start="00:16:23.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but you need to look at my paper</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:24.600" data-start="00:16:24.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for some explicit student comments,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:27.040" data-start="00:16:27.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which you will find there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:28.200" data-start="00:16:28.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Here, I'm giving you only the summary.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:29.880" data-start="00:16:29.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So first of all, Emacs proved to be hard to learn for some,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:34.520" data-start="00:16:34.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">but all students succeeded in all courses,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:37.840" data-start="00:16:37.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">independent of the level of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:39.520" data-start="00:16:39.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">their previous knowledge and skill.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:40.960" data-start="00:16:40.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The documentation practices remained pretty uneven.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:45.920" data-start="00:16:45.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So some students wrote a lot, others wrote little.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:49.640" data-start="00:16:49.640" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">But they were overall much higher than in classes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:53.000" data-start="00:16:53.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">without the use of Emacs and Org Mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:57.280" data-start="00:16:57.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The interactivity enabled through Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:59.560" data-start="00:16:59.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">was highly praised by the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:01.600" data-start="00:17:01.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and always identified on the evaluations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:05.040" data-start="00:17:05.040" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And lastly and most importantly, given the problems</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:08.560" data-start="00:17:08.560" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that I identified earlier, the computing file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:13.280" data-start="00:17:13.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">and data handling competence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:15.080" data-start="00:17:15.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">of the students who worked with Emacs throughout</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:18.280" data-start="00:17:18.280" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">opening Emacs shells, running programs through Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:23.400" data-start="00:17:23.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">these skills increased massively.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:27.000" data-start="00:17:27.000" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In the published paper, I have expressed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:30.600" data-start="00:17:30.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">a little more doubt than you see on this slide.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:32.840" data-start="00:17:32.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">But now, actually, I'm feeling quite hopeful again,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:38.360" data-start="00:17:38.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">especially because recently for one term,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:41.880" data-start="00:17:41.880" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I have returned to Jupyter notebooks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:47.680" data-start="00:17:47.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In the current term, I abandoned Emacs again</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:50.600" data-start="00:17:50.600" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for online Jupyter notebook installations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:53.120" data-start="00:17:53.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The reason is that these Jupyter notebooks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:55.680" data-start="00:17:55.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that I use from DataCamp have generative AI support</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.160" data-start="00:18:00.160" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">from ChatGPT integrated into the notebook.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:03.440" data-start="00:18:03.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And I wanted to try that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:04.920" data-start="00:18:04.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">But after one term without Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.520" data-start="00:18:08.520" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I regret that decision now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:10.200" data-start="00:18:10.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The AI advantage does not make up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:13.200" data-start="00:18:13.200" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">for the loss of the immersion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.120" data-start="00:18:15.120" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">that Emacs and Org Mode deliver.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-teaching" class="subtitle" data-start="00:18:19.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">[00:18:19.800]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:18:19.800" title="" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Conclusion & outlook</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:18:19.800" data-start="00:18:19.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And here's the summary.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:21.400" data-start="00:18:21.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">When learning computer and data science,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.760" data-start="00:18:23.760" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">immersion is everything.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:25.680" data-start="00:18:25.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">The best students will aim at immersion anyway.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:29.480" data-start="00:18:29.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">But for the majority of students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:31.240" data-start="00:18:31.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">immersion must happen in class.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:33.680" data-start="00:18:33.680" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Emacs and Org Mode performed throughout very well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:39.840" data-start="00:18:39.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">as the central literary programming platform.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:42.320" data-start="00:18:42.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And the pre-configuring and the onboarding,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:45.960" data-start="00:18:45.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">which I showed to you, were very important</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:48.960" data-start="00:18:48.960" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">to train the students quickly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:50.360" data-start="00:18:50.360" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">In the paper, I also speculated on the impact</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:54.480" data-start="00:18:54.480" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">of low-code, no-code, and AI coding assistance.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:57.920" data-start="00:18:57.920" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And my general view on this is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:00.240" data-start="00:19:00.240" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">the arrival of these tools</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:01.800" data-start="00:19:01.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">make literary programming as an immersive technique</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:04.320" data-start="00:19:04.320" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">focused on teaching a broad range of skills</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:08.400" data-start="00:19:08.400" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">even more important.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:09.720" data-start="00:19:09.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">So even with AI--or especially with AI--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:13.080" data-start="00:19:13.080" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">this kind of approach, I think, could be critical.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:16.800" data-start="00:19:16.800" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And that's it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:18.440" data-start="00:19:18.440" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">I'm at the end of my presentation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:19.840" data-start="00:19:19.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Thank you very much for your attention.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:21.720" data-start="00:19:21.720" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">And I'm looking forward to the Q&A.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:22.840" data-start="00:19:22.840" data-video="mainVideo-teaching">Thank you.</span></p>
<p>Captioner: sachac</p>
<p><a name="teaching-qanda-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.599" data-start="00:00:00.599" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:04.339" data-start="00:00:04.339" data-video="qanda-teaching">So, things are still a bit rusty,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.339" data-start="00:00:06.339" data-video="qanda-teaching">but believe me, by the end of the morning,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:08.380" data-start="00:00:08.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">we will be well-oiled machinery.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:12.340" data-start="00:00:12.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">So, hi Marcus, how are you doing?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:14.540" data-start="00:00:14.540" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:17.500" data-start="00:00:17.500" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:20.020" data-start="00:00:20.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">forgotten, but you started your presentation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:22.360" data-start="00:00:22.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">with the, in a very dark room and with this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.680" data-start="00:00:26.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">typical note of dry German humor that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:29.340" data-start="00:00:29.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">particularly liked.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:31.640" data-start="00:00:31.640" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:34.280" data-start="00:00:34.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">so any sense of humour is the result of very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:38.300" data-start="00:00:38.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">hard work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:40.940" data-start="00:00:40.940" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:44.280" data-start="00:00:44.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">is evident in this particular remark.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:47.780" data-start="00:00:47.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">So as we did before and perhaps this time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:50.940" data-start="00:00:50.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">more punctiliously, terrible adverb,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:54.320" data-start="00:00:54.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">that's why I'm an English major we will be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.100" data-start="00:00:58.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">taking questions first from the pad and then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:00.420" data-start="00:01:00.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">we'll be moving on to people in the BBV room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:03.740" data-start="00:01:03.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">Let me just check if we have some people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.540" data-start="00:01:05.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">We do have some people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.960" data-start="00:01:06.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">All right, so Markus, I'm gonna ask you the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:08.860" data-start="00:01:08.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">questions in the pad unless you have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:11.200" data-start="00:01:11.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">something to remark first.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:13.080" data-start="00:01:13.080" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:15.060" data-start="00:01:15.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">remark. I mean, only that we're coming to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:17.800" data-start="00:01:17.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">end of the term here, and I think in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.200" data-start="00:01:20.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">paper that I wrote, I expressed doubt that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:24.140" data-start="00:01:24.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs was good for beginners,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.560" data-start="00:01:25.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">but I've now gone back to an interactive</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:31.780" data-start="00:01:31.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">notebook in the class without Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:34.080" data-start="00:01:34.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">and I've just missed it terribly the whole</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:37.500" data-start="00:01:37.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">term. And I think I saw you walk too,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:39.220" data-start="00:01:39.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">so that's kind of interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:41.380" data-start="00:01:41.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.270" data-start="00:01:42.270" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:43.580" data-start="00:01:43.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">let's get started with the questions because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.040" data-start="00:01:45.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm a little worried that we might acquire</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.340" data-start="00:01:48.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">debt because of the time that we have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.580" data-start="00:01:50.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">And just to be clear, so that you also know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.040" data-start="00:01:53.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">the time at which we're supposed to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:54.479" data-start="00:01:54.479" data-video="qanda-teaching">finishing, the next talk here on this track</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:57.240" data-start="00:01:57.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">is supposed to be at 10.40,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:59.700" data-start="00:01:59.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">which is in 13 minutes from now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:01.800" data-start="00:02:01.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">All right, with that said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.240" data-start="00:02:03.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">starting with the first questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:05.000" data-start="00:02:05.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">What tools do you use for making your slides?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:07.300" data-start="00:02:07.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">They are very nice and I concur.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:17.680" data-start="00:02:17.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">OrgReveal?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.280" data-start="00:02:12.280" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:22.980" data-start="00:02:22.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">OrgReveal. I don't have the link right now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:26.380" data-start="00:02:26.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">but it's an org mode package where You create</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:31.560" data-start="00:02:31.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">some meta information and I think it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:35.400" data-start="00:02:35.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">basically JavaScript, JavaScript package that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.900" data-start="00:02:39.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">will work from a bunch of different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:45.580" data-start="00:02:45.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">platforms, but it works particularly well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:49.540" data-start="00:02:49.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">from Emacs. So you use that a lot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:53.740" data-start="00:02:53.740" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:55.440" data-start="00:02:55.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">interacting with JavaScript in the background</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:57.120" data-start="00:02:57.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">and it makes for a very clean presentation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:59.440" data-start="00:02:59.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">right from Emacs. I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:01.380" data-start="00:03:01.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's not opened in Emacs unless you use a web</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:04.340" data-start="00:03:04.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">browser in Emacs that supports such</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.480" data-start="00:03:06.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">compositing but it's pretty convenient and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:09.400" data-start="00:03:09.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">recommend looking into it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:15.140" data-start="00:03:15.140" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:20.080" data-start="00:03:20.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">So if anybody's interested.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.300" data-start="00:03:22.300" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:24.140" data-start="00:03:24.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">right now. So obviously right now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.600" data-start="00:03:25.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">Marcus is writing inside of his own Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:28.180" data-start="00:03:28.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">but we also have the pad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:29.340" data-start="00:03:29.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">We'll make sure that you have all the links</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:31.020" data-start="00:03:31.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">accessible a little bit later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:32.660" data-start="00:03:32.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay, moving on to the next question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:34.460" data-start="00:03:34.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">why MDPI?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:36.820" data-start="00:03:36.820" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:40.520" data-start="00:03:40.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">answer, kind of boring I suppose.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.840" data-start="00:03:42.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">So when I came here to the US,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:45.560" data-start="00:03:45.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">I used to teach a lot of graduate courses and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:47.960" data-start="00:03:47.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">I had to suddenly teach a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:49.280" data-start="00:03:49.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">undergraduate courses,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:50.500" data-start="00:03:50.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">which partly motivated this move because it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.100" data-start="00:03:53.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">made me realize, as I said in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:55.640" data-start="00:03:55.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">presentation, how little the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:58.020" data-start="00:03:58.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">understand of the underlying infrastructure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:00.040" data-start="00:04:00.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">and how important it is for them to work with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.920" data-start="00:04:01.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">an IDE that doesn't make coding especially</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:06.540" data-start="00:04:06.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">convenient, but that teaches them a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:09.140" data-start="00:04:09.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">the stuff on the side,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:10.840" data-start="00:04:10.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, while still presenting a very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:13.440" data-start="00:04:13.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">smooth environment, which developers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:17.480" data-start="00:04:17.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">appreciate as well. So I came here and I used</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:22.120" data-start="00:04:22.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">to publish like 4 or 5 research papers per</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:24.520" data-start="00:04:24.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">year, but I didn't have the time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:26.520" data-start="00:04:26.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I was contacted by MDPI.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:30.060" data-start="00:04:30.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">And it's 1 of those research paper mills,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:34.700" data-start="00:04:34.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">which seem to be springing up where authors</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:37.200" data-start="00:04:37.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">can, really the institutions of the authors</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:40.840" data-start="00:04:40.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">have to pay so that they can publish,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:42.560" data-start="00:04:42.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">right? So it's not really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:44.440" data-start="00:04:44.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">and I checked them out and they seem to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:46.400" data-start="00:04:46.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">proper peer review publishing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:47.680" data-start="00:04:47.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">but to be absolutely sure I said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:49.120" data-start="00:04:49.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">well, you can have my article,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:51.220" data-start="00:04:51.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">but of course for free,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.540" data-start="00:04:52.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm not going to pay for you to publish it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:55.080" data-start="00:04:55.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">And so that's what they did.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:57.880" data-start="00:04:57.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">They invited me and I submitted the paper and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:01.160" data-start="00:05:01.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">it was a very good process.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:02.240" data-start="00:05:02.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">That was a very, it was a good peer review</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:04.540" data-start="00:05:04.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">critique. So I changed the paper quite a bit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:06.760" data-start="00:05:06.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's still not a great paper.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:07.940" data-start="00:05:07.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's just a small case study.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:09.320" data-start="00:05:09.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's the kind of thing that you have a lot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:12.100" data-start="00:05:12.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">in medical research where also people don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:14.800" data-start="00:05:14.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">have a lot of time to do research,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:17.720" data-start="00:05:17.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">proper research, which takes a very long</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.480" data-start="00:05:19.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">time. And so that's why MDPI.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:21.820" data-start="00:05:21.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">And they are in the most of the relevant</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.800" data-start="00:05:24.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">citation indices. So they are reputable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:27.900" data-start="00:05:27.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">enough. I mean, normally I would say for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:30.920" data-start="00:05:30.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">anybody who does anything like this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.260" data-start="00:05:33.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">you might not even want to bother with the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.420" data-start="00:05:36.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">journal these days anymore.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:37.640" data-start="00:05:37.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">You just go straight to ArcSci,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:40.520" data-start="00:05:40.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">put out your preprint.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:41.980" data-start="00:05:41.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">And in fact, what will happen if you're on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:44.540" data-start="00:05:44.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">ArcSci, if somebody finds it interesting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:46.440" data-start="00:05:46.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">they're going to reach out to you to capture</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:49.900" data-start="00:05:49.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">your paper and have it published under their</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.280" data-start="00:05:54.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">heading. Oh yeah, actually the other reason</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.120" data-start="00:05:56.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">why I wanted MDPI is because there were open</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:58.660" data-start="00:05:58.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">access from the start.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:00.720" data-start="00:06:00.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">And I really like, if you go to the paper,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:02.660" data-start="00:06:02.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">I really like the way it's presented.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:04.200" data-start="00:06:04.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I looked at a few papers and I thought</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:07.340" data-start="00:06:07.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's a really nice online access,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:12.160" data-start="00:06:12.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">online open access solution.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:15.920" data-start="00:06:15.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's the long answer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:17.220" data-start="00:06:17.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:18.740" data-start="00:06:18.740" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:21.060" data-start="00:06:21.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">many details so it was far from a boring</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:23.760" data-start="00:06:23.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">answer, let me reassure you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:26.140" data-start="00:06:26.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">Moving on to the question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:27.100" data-start="00:06:27.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">we only have about 8 minutes left so I'd like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:29.120" data-start="00:06:29.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">to finish those 2 questions and let people in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:31.500" data-start="00:06:31.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">the audience speak. So do you think immersion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.280" data-start="00:06:35.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">can be achieved on teaching other students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:37.500" data-start="00:06:37.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">with different backgrounds?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:39.340" data-start="00:06:39.340" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:45.740" data-start="00:06:45.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">I had actually a discussion last night with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.380" data-start="00:06:48.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">my wife in bed about this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:49.920" data-start="00:06:49.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">about the use of textbooks which are famously</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:53.000" data-start="00:06:53.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">non-immersive because they're consumed away</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:55.840" data-start="00:06:55.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">from the class. Very rarely you sit in class</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:58.660" data-start="00:06:58.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">like people used to do and read something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.540" data-start="00:07:00.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">together. Maybe they did that in English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:02.420" data-start="00:07:02.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">And that is of course instantly immersive.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:05.240" data-start="00:07:05.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">But in computer science,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:06.700" data-start="00:07:06.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">many other topics, psychology,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:08.360" data-start="00:07:08.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, biology and so on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:10.680" data-start="00:07:10.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">you cannot get immersion,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:12.260" data-start="00:07:12.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">at least not in a lecture theater.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:15.040" data-start="00:07:15.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">You get it in a lab because people solve the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:16.960" data-start="00:07:16.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">problem and then they're immersed in it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:18.920" data-start="00:07:18.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">So, but my answer would be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:20.660" data-start="00:07:20.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">yes, I can think totally immersion can be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:22.680" data-start="00:07:22.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">achieved anywhere, but what you have to do is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:25.520" data-start="00:07:25.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">you have to not lecture and you have to let</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:29.500" data-start="00:07:29.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">students do work as you go along.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:31.640" data-start="00:07:31.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I used to lecture quite a bit because I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:33.840" data-start="00:07:33.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">was an insecure young professor and just read</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.220" data-start="00:07:38.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">all my slides and my notes as I used to use,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:41.400" data-start="00:07:41.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">as everybody uses to when they start.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.200" data-start="00:07:44.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">But as I went along, I realized,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:46.100" data-start="00:07:46.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, I've got such a grasp of the topic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:48.240" data-start="00:07:48.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">that I really everything I do now is prepared</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:51.080" data-start="00:07:51.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">in Emacs in an interactive way so I start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:53.800" data-start="00:07:53.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">saying a few words and then the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.480" data-start="00:07:55.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">immediately we get to work and they seem to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:58.000" data-start="00:07:58.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">love that because in most of the other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.840" data-start="00:07:59.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">classes people just talk at them they take</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:01.680" data-start="00:08:01.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">their stuff home and work at home,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:03.600" data-start="00:08:03.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">which is of course is super.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:05.380" data-start="00:08:05.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">But most of the students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:06.680" data-start="00:08:06.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">if they have, in at least in a liberal arts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:08.600" data-start="00:08:08.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">college, they have 5 other classes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:10.440" data-start="00:08:10.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">they do not take a lot of time to do the work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:13.520" data-start="00:08:13.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">at home. So it's, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:16.880" data-start="00:08:16.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">yeah, It's kind of different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:18.840" data-start="00:08:18.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's kind of risky, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:20.020" data-start="00:08:20.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">but the main point I was trying to make is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.360" data-start="00:08:22.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs and Org Mode really helped me to boil</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:26.740" data-start="00:08:26.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">that interactive session down to something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:29.220" data-start="00:08:29.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">that will work in the classroom.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:30.800" data-start="00:08:30.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't have to jump around between</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:32.559" data-start="00:08:32.559" data-video="qanda-teaching">platforms. For example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:33.840" data-start="00:08:33.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">this term, and I didn't use Emacs in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.799" data-start="00:08:35.799" data-video="qanda-teaching">class with the students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:37.159" data-start="00:08:37.159" data-video="qanda-teaching">I had to render using a package.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:40.760" data-start="00:08:40.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's actually a very nice package called,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:42.299" data-start="00:08:42.299" data-video="qanda-teaching">what's it called? Ox, what's it called?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.100" data-start="00:08:46.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">Ox, Ox IPNB. It's called Ox IPNB.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.580" data-start="00:08:50.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">So what it does is it renders in the usual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:53.360" data-start="00:08:53.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">way with Emacs, Org Mode does,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:55.600" data-start="00:08:55.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">renders interactive notebook files in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:58.700" data-start="00:08:58.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">Jupyter. And that took me a lot of time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:01.320" data-start="00:09:01.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">And I immediately noticed as soon as the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:03.840" data-start="00:09:03.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">teacher has to fight platforms themselves,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:06.660" data-start="00:09:06.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">they take the ball off the immersion task,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:09.920" data-start="00:09:09.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, to keep the student on the problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:16.000" data-start="00:09:16.000" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:19.400" data-start="00:09:19.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">Yeah. I was going to remark that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:12.980" data-start="00:09:12.980" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:23.260" data-start="00:09:23.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">I suppose it might be MIT style.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.120" data-start="00:09:25.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">Big difference though,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:26.140" data-start="00:09:26.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">my classes are very, very short,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:27.900" data-start="00:09:27.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">small. So I have like between 10 and 15</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:30.060" data-start="00:09:30.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">students per class. 1 of the reasons why I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:32.180" data-start="00:09:32.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">went to this college is because I was fed up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:35.080" data-start="00:09:35.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">teaching, trying to teach hundreds of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:36.940" data-start="00:09:36.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">students. Okay, sorry,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:40.580" data-start="00:09:40.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">do some of your students nag you about using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:42.520" data-start="00:09:42.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">VS Code? Yes, they do,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:43.460" data-start="00:09:43.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">but their arguments aren't very good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:46.800" data-start="00:09:46.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">They hadn't really compared Emacs and VS</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:48.740" data-start="00:09:48.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">Code. And what I do, actually I use RStudio</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:51.980" data-start="00:09:51.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">as well, demonstrate VS Code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:53.860" data-start="00:09:53.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">RStudio and Emacs. And I think it's very easy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:01.060" data-start="00:10:01.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">for them to see. And there are some videos</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:02.840" data-start="00:10:02.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">about that as well, how much easier it is to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:05.020" data-start="00:10:05.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">get into Emacs to limit your investments to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:08.520" data-start="00:10:08.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">what you actually wanna do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:09.820" data-start="00:10:09.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">When the problem with VS Code is it comes at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:11.840" data-start="00:10:11.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">you with this sort of Microsoft store</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:14.440" data-start="00:10:14.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">ideology, like a gazillion plugins,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.420" data-start="00:10:17.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">which if you're a developer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:18.900" data-start="00:10:18.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know what you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:21.040" data-start="00:10:21.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">And I mean, it's a bit like VS Code is like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:24.960" data-start="00:10:24.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">Google search for as if you were programming</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:27.980" data-start="00:10:27.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">in Google search, a complete waste of time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:31.220" data-start="00:10:31.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">Having said that, I've also seen some videos</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:33.280" data-start="00:10:33.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">with people who really know how to use VS</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:36.180" data-start="00:10:36.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">Code. And of course, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.420" data-start="00:10:37.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">if somebody gets on the inside of a tool and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:41.180" data-start="00:10:41.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">spends upwards of a thousand hours in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:44.480" data-start="00:10:44.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">tool, they'll be great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:45.920" data-start="00:10:45.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">But that's not true for beginners.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:48.960" data-start="00:10:48.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">So hold on, there's another 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:51.020" data-start="00:10:51.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm reading them, sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:52.840" data-start="00:10:52.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">Leo, I can see the questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:55.680" data-start="00:10:55.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">but you may wanna turn them around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:59.700" data-start="00:10:59.700" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:00.720" data-start="00:11:00.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">you're free to read them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:01.560" data-start="00:11:01.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm on your fasted computer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:02.960" data-start="00:11:02.960" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:04.600" data-start="00:11:04.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">I teach simple programming at a vocational</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:06.100" data-start="00:11:06.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">school, and even after showing the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:07.700" data-start="00:11:07.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">Vim, Vim, of course, is a contender,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:09.520" data-start="00:11:09.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">and now I'm telling them I prefer Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.180" data-start="00:11:12.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">They still all choose VS Code as their</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:14.260" data-start="00:11:14.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">editor. Well, okay, what I did is mandatory.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:17.720" data-start="00:11:17.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">I didn't let them choose.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:19.840" data-start="00:11:19.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's what I did. And I thought that was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:21.980" data-start="00:11:21.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">quite risky, but in the end,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:23.860" data-start="00:11:23.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">it turns out that the best students loved it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:26.400" data-start="00:11:26.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">and keep using Emacs in their jobs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:28.580" data-start="00:11:28.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">I hear that now. The students in the middle</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:33.160" data-start="00:11:33.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">were probably the ones who would pick VS Code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:35.860" data-start="00:11:35.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">because every tutorial they see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.600" data-start="00:11:38.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">they learn a lot through YouTube and so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:40.440" data-start="00:11:40.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">everything they see is in VS Code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:42.260" data-start="00:11:42.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">If there were more tutorials in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:44.180" data-start="00:11:44.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm trying to make some,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:45.700" data-start="00:11:45.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">then of course that would be different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.280" data-start="00:11:49.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">But I think it's partly brainwashing and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:53.940" data-start="00:11:53.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">partly, of course, the other reason is there</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:55.840" data-start="00:11:55.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">is no online Emacs. They use VS Code Dev,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.500" data-start="00:12:00.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">right? And that's, of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.340" data-start="00:12:03.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">they use an online cloud solution.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:05.420" data-start="00:12:05.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">Like most of the students in the high school,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:07.040" data-start="00:12:07.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">I teach Python in the high school right now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:09.480" data-start="00:12:09.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">and the students only get Chromebooks that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:11.600" data-start="00:12:11.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">are completely cut down to nothing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.060" data-start="00:12:15.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">They cannot have Linux on their Chromebooks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:18.260" data-start="00:12:18.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">So what are they supposed to do?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:19.900" data-start="00:12:19.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">Their only choice really is Repl.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:21.760" data-start="00:12:21.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">Repl.com is a possibility for them to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:24.240" data-start="00:12:24.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">that. But, you know, or they use code spaces,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:27.660" data-start="00:12:27.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">which is VS Code in GitHub.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:31.400" data-start="00:12:31.400" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:32.640" data-start="00:12:32.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">We only have about 2 minutes left.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:34.040" data-start="00:12:34.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">So if you could take 1 question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.380" data-start="00:12:35.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">that would be great. Sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:30.660" data-start="00:12:30.660" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:38.100" data-start="00:12:38.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">Any more tutorials will be most welcome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:40.080" data-start="00:12:40.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">Yes, I I'd love to. I spent the rest of my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:43.660" data-start="00:12:43.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">days on this earth making Emacs tutorials if</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:48.263" data-start="00:12:48.263" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:46.100" data-start="00:12:46.100" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:49.769" data-start="00:12:49.769" data-video="qanda-teaching">Approach to handling EDA.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.140" data-start="00:12:51.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">Oh yeah, with white data sets.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.760" data-start="00:12:56.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">Well, that's a good point.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:01.500" data-start="00:13:01.500" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:03.840" data-start="00:13:03.840" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:07.080" data-start="00:13:07.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know, if you look at the comments,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:08.760" data-start="00:13:08.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think these are on YouTube,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.960" data-start="00:13:09.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">right, at some point, Leo?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:03.260" data-start="00:13:03.260" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:12.600" data-start="00:13:12.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">they will definitely be on YouTube.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:14.200" data-start="00:13:14.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">answer the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.860" data-start="00:13:13.860" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:15.580" data-start="00:13:15.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">EDA, that's too long to go into right now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:17.560" data-start="00:13:17.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">plus my cat is here. So I'm going to answer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:21.100" data-start="00:13:21.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">that in the comments, all right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:23.000" data-start="00:13:23.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">Start up the conversation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:24.960" data-start="00:13:24.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">Yes, I'm going to post that in the comments</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:27.800" data-start="00:13:27.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:29.320" data-start="00:13:29.320" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:31.500" data-start="00:13:31.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">Marcus, you're going to continue the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:32.640" data-start="00:13:32.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">discussion. It's just a stream that will be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:35.440" data-start="00:13:35.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">moving on to the next talk in about 50</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:37.160" data-start="00:13:37.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">seconds. Marcus, feel free to keep answering</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:39.380" data-start="00:13:39.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">questions inside this room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:40.760" data-start="00:13:40.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">You also have people, we're going to check</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:42.840" data-start="00:13:42.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">aside with the stream,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:44.540" data-start="00:13:44.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">we have a number of people in the room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:46.280" data-start="00:13:46.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">You can see them on the left on the button</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:48.640" data-start="00:13:48.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">who are probably going to unmute themselves</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:51.460" data-start="00:13:51.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">and ask you questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:52.740" data-start="00:13:52.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">So feel free to stay in the room,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:54.720" data-start="00:13:54.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">answer as lengthy as you want the questions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:57.100" data-start="00:13:57.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">because that's more content for us and we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:58.700" data-start="00:13:58.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">love it obviously. But it's just that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.640" data-start="00:14:01.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">personally will be leaving to take care of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:03.760" data-start="00:14:03.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">the rest of the talks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:04.960" data-start="00:14:04.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">So, Markus, do you have any last words before</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:06.880" data-start="00:14:06.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">we move on?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:08.000" data-start="00:14:08.000" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:09.680" data-start="00:14:09.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm going to copy this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:11.660" data-start="00:14:11.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't think I listened to the talk by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.280" data-start="00:14:13.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">Sascha yet, but I'm going to do that because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:15.200" data-start="00:14:15.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">I really want to copy this conference format.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:18.080" data-start="00:14:18.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think that is the conference format of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:19.860" data-start="00:14:19.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">future, using volunteers to put together</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.820" data-start="00:14:21.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">conferences. So I can't wait.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:23.100" data-start="00:14:23.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">Nobody wants to come to Batesville where I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:24.720" data-start="00:14:24.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">am, but thank you so much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:25.840" data-start="00:14:25.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">That was really super professional.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:27.180" data-start="00:14:27.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">I love that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:28.980" data-start="00:14:28.980" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:32.420" data-start="00:14:32.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think we caught up about 1 or 2 seconds</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:35.420" data-start="00:14:35.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">into the last sentence you said but otherwise</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:37.200" data-start="00:14:37.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">we were splendidly on time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:38.960" data-start="00:14:38.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">So thank you so much Marcus.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:40.440" data-start="00:14:40.440" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:43.140" data-start="00:14:43.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">bit about that question about handling EDA.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:51.220" data-start="00:14:51.220" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:52.960" data-start="00:14:52.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">Because people have started asking questions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:54.720" data-start="00:14:54.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">on the left. Can you see the chat?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:49.460" data-start="00:14:49.460" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:58.860" data-start="00:14:58.860" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:01.020" data-start="00:15:01.020" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:01.166" data-start="00:15:01.166" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:57.053" data-start="00:14:57.053" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:03.760" data-start="00:15:03.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">that. Yeah, that's fine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:05.240" data-start="00:15:05.240" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:06.760" data-start="00:15:06.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">So Marcus, have a great day and I'll probably</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:08.560" data-start="00:15:08.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">see you later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:10.160" data-start="00:15:10.160" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:13.140" data-start="00:15:13.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">Bye bye. There was a question about the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:15.620" data-start="00:15:15.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">I wanted to ask the answer the question about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:17.560" data-start="00:15:17.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">EDA, large data sets. So,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:21.760" data-start="00:15:21.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean, I teach undergraduate now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:25.080" data-start="00:15:25.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">so there's a limited number of courses,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:28.660" data-start="00:15:28.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">like where I use, actually have big data</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.360" data-start="00:15:32.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">issues. And I mean I'm not saying that I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.100" data-start="00:15:36.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">not that I don't run into performance issues</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:38.760" data-start="00:15:38.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">with Emacs. I obviously do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:40.680" data-start="00:15:40.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">But like the performance issues in Emacs are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:43.680" data-start="00:15:43.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">comparable to performance issues for example</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:45.780" data-start="00:15:45.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">when using R. In R everything is in memory So</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:49.640" data-start="00:15:49.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">you are limited to the available,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:52.840" data-start="00:15:52.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">what is it, 2 gigabyte or whatever memory of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:56.020" data-start="00:15:56.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">your computer. So you would have to find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:58.180" data-start="00:15:58.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">other infrastructure solutions anyway.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:00.660" data-start="00:16:00.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">The advantage of using Emacs is that I can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:05.860" data-start="00:16:05.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">within 1 Org Mode file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:08.140" data-start="00:16:08.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">connect to an external database.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:11.760" data-start="00:16:11.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">I can even, as probably most of you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:13.840" data-start="00:16:13.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">I can even use it as a text-based web browser</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:17.860" data-start="00:16:17.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">if I want to. So I could look at individual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:22.940" data-start="00:16:22.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">files. And the other point of EDA of course</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:26.820" data-start="00:16:26.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">is that you're not supposed to look at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:30.640" data-start="00:16:30.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">tables. You're supposed to get the basic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:38.620" data-start="00:16:38.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">frame of your data. Is there a header?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:41.460" data-start="00:16:41.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">What's the approximate size and stuff like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:43.780" data-start="00:16:43.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">that? And then you're supposed to import it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:45.940" data-start="00:16:45.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">into a data frame ideally,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:47.960" data-start="00:16:47.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">at least in portions. And I don't think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:53.240" data-start="00:16:53.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">yeah, so that's it. But the full answer is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:56.260" data-start="00:16:56.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">that I have not done big data analysis in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:59.980" data-start="00:16:59.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs. So that's actually a really nice</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:02.380" data-start="00:17:02.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">extension. I'm going to write that down as a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:06.060" data-start="00:17:06.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">thing to talk about in some future talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:08.260" data-start="00:17:08.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay, so ADA with big data.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:11.599" data-start="00:17:11.599" data-video="qanda-teaching">Even though interesting would be to know what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:13.940" data-start="00:17:13.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">kind of size of data you're actually talking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:16.560" data-start="00:17:16.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">about. So I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:20.920" data-start="00:17:20.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">what is it, upwards of 1 terabyte or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:25.940" data-start="00:17:25.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">something like that, I don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:27.520" data-start="00:17:27.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">That'd be interesting to know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:31.560" data-start="00:17:31.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">Haven't done that in class.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:39.240" data-start="00:17:39.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">So there's another question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:41.240" data-start="00:17:41.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">Proportion of students that you think would</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:43.020" data-start="00:17:43.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">keep on using Emacs after your course?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:44.820" data-start="00:17:44.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's not a difficult question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:46.000" data-start="00:17:46.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">because as I said, I have very small classes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:47.880" data-start="00:17:47.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">I've been here since 2 years.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:49.200" data-start="00:17:49.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I'm in touch with almost all the students.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:51.580" data-start="00:17:51.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">In fact, I'm getting them work after school.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:54.760" data-start="00:17:54.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">So that's really cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:56.200" data-start="00:17:56.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">And everybody who took to Emacs really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.660" data-start="00:18:00.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">seriously, so probably about 25% or so keep</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:03.900" data-start="00:18:03.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">using Emacs after, afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:06.560" data-start="00:18:06.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean, even in the job,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.360" data-start="00:18:08.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">right, in the professional field.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:10.680" data-start="00:18:10.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">Who, those who keep using Emacs after the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:13.080" data-start="00:18:13.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">course, I think the number is greater,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.180" data-start="00:18:15.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">but I have not followed up on that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:16.920" data-start="00:18:16.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">I have to, my guess is more than half,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.140" data-start="00:18:23.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">I would say, half or more than half.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:26.660" data-start="00:18:26.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">Oh, Aaron, thank you so much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:27.880" data-start="00:18:27.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's very sweet. But I didn't think the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:31.320" data-start="00:18:31.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">presentation was great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:32.300" data-start="00:18:32.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">I was thinking about redoing it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:33.840" data-start="00:18:33.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">but this is actually the first take.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:36.280" data-start="00:18:36.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">It was late, I had lots of other stuff to do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:40.840" data-start="00:18:40.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think what I'm more interested in than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:44.700" data-start="00:18:44.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">papers is probably this idea of making</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:48.320" data-start="00:18:48.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs-based data science videos because there</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:51.020" data-start="00:18:51.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">aren't many out there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:52.120" data-start="00:18:52.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">Most of the people who do,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:54.920" data-start="00:18:54.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">and computer science, most people who do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:57.240" data-start="00:18:57.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">are not either developers and certainly not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:59.240" data-start="00:18:59.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">teachers. So I think that's a good idea.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:02.080" data-start="00:19:02.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm gonna pick that up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:03.860" data-start="00:19:03.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">So to do more Remax based data science videos</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:19.120" data-start="00:19:19.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">Is there anything else?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:20.800" data-start="00:19:20.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">More people. There are some people here in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:22.360" data-start="00:19:22.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">the room still.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:23.800" data-start="00:19:23.800" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:27.040" data-start="00:19:27.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">What? Or wiki. What's my YouTube channel?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:34.460" data-start="00:19:34.460" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:36.560" data-start="00:19:36.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">I've got a bunch of different YouTube</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:38.520" data-start="00:19:38.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">channels. I'm going to put them in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:40.720" data-start="00:19:40.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">comments to my talk. Hold on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:43.660" data-start="00:19:43.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">the 1 where I have the latest Emacs videos,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:46.640" data-start="00:19:46.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">you find my name, there's nobody in the world</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:48.740" data-start="00:19:48.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">with my name. So if you look for Gerten Krag</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:52.120" data-start="00:19:52.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">on YouTube, then you will find it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:59.120" data-start="00:19:59.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">But I got a bunch of them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:00.300" data-start="00:20:00.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">Hold on, I'm going to give you the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:13.260" data-start="00:20:13.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">My channel. Okay, This 1 has only got a few</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:20.220" data-start="00:20:20.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">videos. But so there's 1 with a lot more.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:25.380" data-start="00:20:25.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">Few recent videos. And I'm going to post</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:32.740" data-start="00:20:32.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">more. Other ones in the comments of this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:41.320" data-start="00:20:41.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">video. Okay, what else?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:48.780" data-start="00:20:48.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm trying to find my way back to the button.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:55.440" data-start="00:20:55.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay, cool. Oh, yes, thank you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:59.200" data-start="00:20:59.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">I will. That's very good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:01.500" data-start="00:21:01.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">Thank you so much. Of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:03.120" data-start="00:21:03.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">I use Vork. I hadn't even thought of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:06.360" data-start="00:21:06.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">Very good. It's interesting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:15.860" data-start="00:21:15.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">that's something that comes to my mind.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:18.120" data-start="00:21:18.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">When I was a young student,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:19.740" data-start="00:21:19.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">right, people who used Emacs and the web</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:24.020" data-start="00:21:24.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">wasn't particularly large.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:25.960" data-start="00:21:25.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">So the volunteers would automatically make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:29.440" data-start="00:21:29.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">videos but not for commercial purposes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:31.560" data-start="00:21:31.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">Now you have an army of people who make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:34.740" data-start="00:21:34.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">commercial videos and the videos are usually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:38.240" data-start="00:21:38.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">good for the first 10% of every content,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:41.040" data-start="00:21:41.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">but as soon as it gets a little more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:42.540" data-start="00:21:42.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">difficult, they either don't know what to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:44.760" data-start="00:21:44.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">anymore or they don't do it because it's not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:48.600" data-start="00:21:48.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">commercially viable. The number of people who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:50.980" data-start="00:21:50.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">move on is gets smaller and smaller and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:53.720" data-start="00:21:53.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">smaller. So there's no commerce anymore.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:55.960" data-start="00:21:55.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">But when I was a student,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:58.740" data-start="00:21:58.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">pretty much all the documentation everywhere</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:01.100" data-start="00:22:01.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">was created by volunteers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:02.500" data-start="00:22:02.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">just like this conference or like anything in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:04.840" data-start="00:22:04.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">org mode. And that doesn't seem to be much of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:09.520" data-start="00:22:09.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">a trend anymore, but maybe we can resurrect</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:12.860" data-start="00:22:12.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">it. So yes, I'm definitely gonna contribute</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:22.960" data-start="00:22:22.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">to that. Multiple people are typing here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:30.280" data-start="00:22:30.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">Oh, sorry. Yes. Thank you so much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:37.060" data-start="00:22:37.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna rectify that in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:40.920" data-start="00:22:40.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">the comment. Having said that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:45.260" data-start="00:22:45.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">I am not 100% sure that I didn't lie here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:50.500" data-start="00:22:50.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">May just be because I didn't have much time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:52.760" data-start="00:22:52.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">to put the presentation together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:54.340" data-start="00:22:54.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">And it's perfectly possible that that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:56.820" data-start="00:22:56.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">actually Google slides and not all reveal.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:00.040" data-start="00:23:00.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">In the classroom when I present and just do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:02.360" data-start="00:23:02.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">lectures, I always do reveal,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:04.600" data-start="00:23:04.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">but most of the time I do a tree slide.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:08.640" data-start="00:23:08.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's the quickest way to do it for me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:10.840" data-start="00:23:10.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">So, so presentation. Hold on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:15.060" data-start="00:23:15.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">Let me just copy this 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:17.960" data-start="00:23:17.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">Make sure that this doesn't get lost.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:21.880" data-start="00:23:21.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">Thank you so much for that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:24.280" data-start="00:23:24.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">And presentations in class.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:28.780" data-start="00:23:28.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">I use sometimes org-present,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:30.660" data-start="00:23:30.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">but there are issues with the font sometimes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:33.740" data-start="00:23:33.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">I use Treeslide most of the time and Org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:44.240" data-start="00:23:44.240" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:36.960" data-start="00:23:36.960" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:46.780" data-start="00:23:46.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">this is not org, so forget about that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:02.660" data-start="00:24:02.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay. Yeah, so you can send me your,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:10.680" data-start="00:24:10.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">you've got my email, I think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:12.160" data-start="00:24:12.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">on the end, if you're interested in following</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:14.060" data-start="00:24:14.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">up or letting me know about your stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:16.680" data-start="00:24:16.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">It might be interesting to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:18.480" data-start="00:24:18.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know, might be interesting to put</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:20.040" data-start="00:24:20.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">together a conference or a little seminar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:22.040" data-start="00:24:22.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">just for educators.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:37.500" data-start="00:24:37.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">DF is still typing, I'm waiting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:39.025" data-start="00:24:39.025" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm waiting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:44.840" data-start="00:24:44.840" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:46.700" data-start="00:24:46.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">Bastien, was talking about possibility to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:52.340" data-start="00:24:52.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">have just org mod conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:55.760" data-start="00:24:55.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">But the question is, is it worth making a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:54.780" data-start="00:24:54.780" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:59.180" data-start="00:24:59.180" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:07.120" data-start="00:25:07.120" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:10.840" data-start="00:25:10.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">Actually.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:05.020" data-start="00:25:05.020" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:13.940" data-start="00:25:13.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">how EmacsConf is well done.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:16.800" data-start="00:25:16.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">So it's like creating anything that has good</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:22.500" data-start="00:25:22.500" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:25.640" data-start="00:25:25.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">Yeah, I mean.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:19.340" data-start="00:25:19.340" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:30.480" data-start="00:25:30.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's anywhere, like half of Emacs is anywhere</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:32.920" data-start="00:25:32.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">remote. So it's almost the same.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:37.500" data-start="00:25:37.500" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:40.200" data-start="00:25:40.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know if that's what you mean.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:41.520" data-start="00:25:41.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">Org Mode is probably what attracts people to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:45.020" data-start="00:25:45.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs in the first place.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:47.040" data-start="00:25:47.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">Like, I suppose Org Roam is the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:51.260" data-start="00:25:51.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">maybe the biggest 1 for people even outside</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:54.600" data-start="00:25:54.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">of computer science. I use Org.ROM</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:58.280" data-start="00:25:58.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">for everything. But there are...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:04.760" data-start="00:26:04.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean, the thresholds...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:06.220" data-start="00:26:06.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think that the maintainer or maybe the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:07.900" data-start="00:26:07.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">creator of Org.MODE has claimed and said for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:10.520" data-start="00:26:10.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">many years that Org Mode itself doesn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:13.140" data-start="00:26:13.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">actually necessarily need Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:14.680" data-start="00:26:14.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">You can have it as a completely separate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:17.360" data-start="00:26:17.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">application as well. But I,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:19.760" data-start="00:26:19.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">for a number of reasons,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.040" data-start="00:26:21.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't like that. I really like the idea to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:28.434" data-start="00:26:28.434" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:30.620" data-start="00:26:30.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">be Emacs because the configurability is 1 of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:33.580" data-start="00:26:33.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">the strong points anyway.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:23.440" data-start="00:26:23.440" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:35.820" data-start="00:26:35.820" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:37.840" data-start="00:26:37.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">No,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:38.080" data-start="00:26:38.080" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:39.800" data-start="00:26:39.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">The thing is you use the flexibility.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:41.680" data-start="00:26:41.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">Plus, you also use the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:43.440" data-start="00:26:43.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know if that's the right word,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:46.080" data-start="00:26:46.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">but you use there's something about the free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:48.760" data-start="00:26:48.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">ideology of Emacs that is what attracted me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:52.600" data-start="00:26:52.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">to it in the first place when I was younger</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:56.460" data-start="00:26:56.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">and that I find even more important now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:00.765" data-start="00:27:00.765" data-video="qanda-teaching">So what they say the community aspect,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:06.220" data-start="00:27:06.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">the reason, the main reason why Python is so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:08.800" data-start="00:27:08.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">big today, really. So yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:15.060" data-start="00:27:15.060" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:17.860" data-start="00:27:17.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's org syntax that is supposed to be like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:21.820" data-start="00:27:21.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">breaking out of Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:24.960" data-start="00:27:24.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">So like there's a plan to lay out the actual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:28.860" data-start="00:27:28.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">standard document so that you can register</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:31.440" data-start="00:27:31.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">the format officially.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:23.860" data-start="00:27:23.860" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:34.760" data-start="00:27:34.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">I've not followed up on it much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:36.880" data-start="00:27:36.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know what the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:39.400" data-start="00:27:39.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean, that probably would,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:41.480" data-start="00:27:41.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">it would strength, very likely,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:43.040" data-start="00:27:43.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">if you do that, it would at least for a short</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:45.100" data-start="00:27:45.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">time, strengthen org mode and weaken emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:49.420" data-start="00:27:49.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know what other examples,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:51.580" data-start="00:27:51.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">if there are other examples of applications</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:55.120" data-start="00:27:55.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">pulled out of IDEs like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:57.840" data-start="00:27:57.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm not aware of any others.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:00.300" data-start="00:28:00.300" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:02.680" data-start="00:28:02.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">three-seater drama. People are trying to make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:04.920" data-start="00:28:04.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">like some external parsers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:06.460" data-start="00:28:06.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">a lot of them. And a lot of stuff is done on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:10.320" data-start="00:28:10.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">mobile part. I can draw it to iOS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:13.440" data-start="00:28:13.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">especially recently. So things that are Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:17.780" data-start="00:28:17.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">independent are demanded.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:20.660" data-start="00:28:20.660" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:25.440" data-start="00:28:25.440" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:27.040" data-start="00:28:27.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">like every time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:23.040" data-start="00:28:23.040" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:30.680" data-start="00:28:30.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">very much. I have some of my students have 0</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:35.020" data-start="00:28:35.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">affinity with computers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:38.240" data-start="00:28:38.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">They really don't know their way around their</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:39.900" data-start="00:28:39.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">computers at all. And so for them,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:46.860" data-start="00:28:46.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">It is quite important to learn how to find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:51.440" data-start="00:28:51.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">your way around Emacs because it's like a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:56.520" data-start="00:28:56.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">little operating system,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:57.920" data-start="00:28:57.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">but it's not. It's an operating system</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:00.300" data-start="00:29:00.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">without much of the obscurity.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:05.080" data-start="00:29:05.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">And the alternative to that would be to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:07.960" data-start="00:29:07.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">simply let them work only on the command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:10.520" data-start="00:29:10.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">line, which is another possibility.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:13.480" data-start="00:29:13.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">But, you know, there of course you are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:16.160" data-start="00:29:16.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">limited with regard to if you want to swap</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:20.540" data-start="00:29:20.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">languages. So for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:23.940" data-start="00:29:23.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">quite often I find myself in the situation I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:26.000" data-start="00:29:26.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">teach data science in R and Python and in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:28.780" data-start="00:29:28.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs org mode I can demonstrate both of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:31.520" data-start="00:29:31.520" data-video="qanda-teaching">these side by side in the same file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:35.280" data-start="00:29:35.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">And that's a great advantage.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:39.800" data-start="00:29:39.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">Not to overburden the students when they are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:43.060" data-start="00:29:43.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">at the beginning with things that you don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:45.100" data-start="00:29:45.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">want them to necessarily learn about.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:48.480" data-start="00:29:48.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">And plus the thing what I like as a graduate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:51.000" data-start="00:29:51.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">student when I stepped onto Emacs was that it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:54.440" data-start="00:29:54.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">was infinite possibilities to lose myself in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:00.140" data-start="00:30:00.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">Emacs and you know go on and learn more stuff</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:03.060" data-start="00:30:03.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">about it. But it's such a long time ago that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:07.300" data-start="00:30:07.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">I barely dare to mention it anymore.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:11.600" data-start="00:30:11.600" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:12.880" data-start="00:30:12.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's since the Jupyter notebooks and that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.080" data-start="00:30:17.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">Google thing they are running.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:20.820" data-start="00:30:20.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's getting so popular that it's clear that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:23.820" data-start="00:30:23.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">command line is just losing in popularity in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:28.580" data-start="00:30:28.580" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:26.760" data-start="00:30:26.760" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:36.100" data-start="00:30:36.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">Not the usage. People are still using it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:38.400" data-start="00:30:38.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">obviously.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:39.520" data-start="00:30:39.520" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:41.200" data-start="00:30:41.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">only the paid version allows you to go to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:43.620" data-start="00:30:43.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">terminal and use the command line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:46.620" data-start="00:30:46.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">But of course, the traction,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:48.580" data-start="00:30:48.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">and I think that's kind of interesting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:50.660" data-start="00:30:50.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">1 of the reasons why IPython or any of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:54.680" data-start="00:30:54.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">Jupyter notebooks are so cool is because you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:56.960" data-start="00:30:56.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">can use a lot of shell commands from the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:00.240" data-start="00:31:00.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">IPython shell. There's a whole bunch of magic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:05.080" data-start="00:31:05.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">commands which are quite powerful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:07.040" data-start="00:31:07.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean the the 1 that comes to mind is time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:10.680" data-start="00:31:10.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">The time command for example you know gives</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:12.940" data-start="00:31:12.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">you a really nice performance quick</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:15.720" data-start="00:31:15.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">performance check. There's a bunch of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:17.660" data-start="00:31:17.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">different, I think probably close to a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:19.780" data-start="00:31:19.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">hundred magic commands that you can use in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:22.340" data-start="00:31:22.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">Jupyter. But I don't know JupyterLab too</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:25.600" data-start="00:31:25.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">well, but I noticed that the companies that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:28.840" data-start="00:31:28.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">do online training, And they are usually the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:31.080" data-start="00:31:31.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">ones that are closest to what beginners want,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:34.920" data-start="00:31:34.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">especially in business.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:36.280" data-start="00:31:36.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">And what those companies do is they,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:38.560" data-start="00:31:38.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, they take, they take JupyterLab and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:41.720" data-start="00:31:41.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">turn it into a presentation of their own.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:43.740" data-start="00:31:43.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">Another 1 is Notable, notable.io.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:46.840" data-start="00:31:46.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">That's another 1. They took JupyterLab and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:49.900" data-start="00:31:49.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">turned it into something commercial.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:51.340" data-start="00:31:51.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's boosted up a little bit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:55.840" data-start="00:31:55.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">And so the shell inside the JupyterLab has</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:00.480" data-start="00:32:00.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">some of the most more important shell</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:03.120" data-start="00:32:03.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">properties. And so people still use the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:05.440" data-start="00:32:05.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">command line without knowing that they use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:07.080" data-start="00:32:07.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">the command line. But I also like doing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:13.680" data-start="00:32:13.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">how do I use org-roam?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:19.360" data-start="00:32:19.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">Well, I use it, I do not have not used it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:22.020" data-start="00:32:22.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">with the students yet,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:23.000" data-start="00:32:23.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">only the best students have sort of seen me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:25.020" data-start="00:32:25.020" data-video="qanda-teaching">use it and copied it. But I use it probably</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:29.780" data-start="00:32:29.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">in a very naive, trivial way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:32.000" data-start="00:32:32.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">I can't say that I am,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:34.300" data-start="00:32:34.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">that I have a very sophisticated use.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:37.200" data-start="00:32:37.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">I basically, I like the fact that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:39.640" data-start="00:32:39.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean, it's built on the original concept of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:43.100" data-start="00:32:43.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">the, with the German word,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:44.540" data-start="00:32:44.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">Zettelkasten, right? Which is that you do not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:48.280" data-start="00:32:48.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">have to think about a taxonomy because as you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:50.940" data-start="00:32:50.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">move along, your taxonomy changes all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:53.800" data-start="00:32:53.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">time. You know, what you think is important</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:55.580" data-start="00:32:55.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">at the beginning, your root node,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:57.440" data-start="00:32:57.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">as you go along, you realize,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:58.940" data-start="00:32:58.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">oh, that's not the root node at all.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:00.680" data-start="00:33:00.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">There's a higher level and a higher level.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:02.640" data-start="00:33:02.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">And some of the lower levels are at the lower</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:04.740" data-start="00:33:04.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">level, actually the higher level.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:06.320" data-start="00:33:06.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">So you're beginning to create hierarchies</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:10.760" data-start="00:33:10.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">that are out of date as soon as you create</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:14.340" data-start="00:33:14.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">the hierarchy. So what is the idea of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:16.360" data-start="00:33:16.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">tittle custom is that anything that comes to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:18.480" data-start="00:33:18.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">your mind you can throw in the custom the box</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:21.160" data-start="00:33:21.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">it literally means Box of notes and That's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:26.580" data-start="00:33:26.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">what I appreciate about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:27.740" data-start="00:33:27.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I create a I create a note pretty much for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:32.920" data-start="00:33:32.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">anything I do, but I've only used it for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:35.860" data-start="00:33:35.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">about a year and a half or so,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:38.220" data-start="00:33:38.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">or grown, maybe a year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:40.680" data-start="00:33:40.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I can see that I'm coming up against the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:43.700" data-start="00:33:43.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">Zettelkasten or note box problems,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:47.120" data-start="00:33:47.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">which is that I've got so many notes now that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:50.860" data-start="00:33:50.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">unless I have clever aliases,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:54.180" data-start="00:33:54.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">there is a chance that I might forget that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:58.820" data-start="00:33:58.820" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:56.680" data-start="00:33:56.680" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:02.780" data-start="00:34:02.780" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:04.940" data-start="00:34:04.940" data-video="qanda-teaching">no matter what system you use.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:01.740" data-start="00:34:01.740" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:09.739" data-start="00:34:09.739" data-video="qanda-teaching">different approach than hierarchies,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:11.480" data-start="00:34:11.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">right? It's the same, it's the same,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:13.620" data-start="00:34:13.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's the same principle as a relational</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:16.080" data-start="00:34:16.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">database versus a hierarchical database.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:19.120" data-start="00:34:19.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">Same thing. So, yeah, and I've not used that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:23.360" data-start="00:34:23.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">I've not really used, actually I have cut</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:25.400" data-start="00:34:25.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">meta notes, of course I do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:27.100" data-start="00:34:27.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">So notes that point to other notes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:29.487" data-start="00:34:29.487" data-video="qanda-teaching">Yes, of course. I use those.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:35.412" data-start="00:34:35.412" data-video="qanda-teaching">I have not taught that part to the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:38.880" data-start="00:34:38.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">because I do project work with the students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:45.040" data-start="00:34:45.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">but there's only so much time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:46.320" data-start="00:34:46.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm already, I mean, already,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:48.340" data-start="00:34:48.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't think there's any class that where I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:51.000" data-start="00:34:51.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">am able to use more than 30% of my material.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:55.880" data-start="00:34:55.880" data-video="qanda-teaching">And the reason is that when the students come</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:57.620" data-start="00:34:57.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">to class, which is I pointed out in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:59.220" data-start="00:34:59.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">video, they know so little.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:01.840" data-start="00:35:01.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">And most of the students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:03.720" data-start="00:35:03.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">at least in liberal arts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:04.960" data-start="00:35:04.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">spend just too little time outside of class,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:10.760" data-start="00:35:10.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">getting there, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:11.600" data-start="00:35:11.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">drilling down into the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:13.040" data-start="00:35:13.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">into the, into the infrastructure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:14.860" data-start="00:35:14.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">into the work. Only, only the best students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:17.060" data-start="00:35:17.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">do that. The ones that really catch fire.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:20.080" data-start="00:35:20.080" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:22.280" data-start="00:35:22.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">project at the end?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:24.140" data-start="00:35:24.140" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:25.760" data-start="00:35:25.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">I use Scrum. Maybe I shouldn't,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:27.720" data-start="00:35:27.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">but I've used Scrum for many years.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:30.040" data-start="00:35:30.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I have course projects that start at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:32.600" data-start="00:35:32.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">beginning and they do sprint reviews every 3</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:35.280" data-start="00:35:35.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">or 4 weeks. So term end projects I find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:40.640" data-start="00:35:40.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">completely useless because the students do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:43.080" data-start="00:35:43.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">the work at the very end of the term.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:46.220" data-start="00:35:46.220" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:49.600" data-start="00:35:49.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">the end, they just report at the end.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:45.060" data-start="00:35:45.060" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:52.960" data-start="00:35:52.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">I use the IMRAD method.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:54.340" data-start="00:35:54.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">So I use IMRAD, basically IMRAD plus,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:58.700" data-start="00:35:58.700" data-video="qanda-teaching">plus Scrum, right? So,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:00.300" data-start="00:36:00.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">So the first sprint review is introductory,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:02.500" data-start="00:36:02.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">the research proposal,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:03.540" data-start="00:36:03.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">the second 1 is about methodology,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:05.060" data-start="00:36:05.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">the third 1 about results,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:06.360" data-start="00:36:06.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">and the last 1 is their final presentation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:09.000" data-start="00:36:09.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">And so that's the way I manage the projects,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:11.160" data-start="00:36:11.160" data-video="qanda-teaching">but that's about as much as I can do with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:16.040" data-start="00:36:16.040" data-video="qanda-teaching">them. It's a good idea.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:17.640" data-start="00:36:17.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">I hadn't even thought about using Org-ROM</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:19.900" data-start="00:36:19.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">with them, but to teach them that might be a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:22.760" data-start="00:36:22.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">good idea, actually.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:25.360" data-start="00:36:25.360" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:27.400" data-start="00:36:27.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">what I found useful during my graduate is for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:32.360" data-start="00:36:32.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">literature review. Yes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:34.960" data-start="00:36:34.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">The other part of our program that is not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:37.360" data-start="00:36:37.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">about your like noting down your thoughts is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:40.580" data-start="00:36:40.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">about writing about literature notes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:43.780" data-start="00:36:43.780" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:45.480" data-start="00:36:45.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">And of course, I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:46.320" data-start="00:36:46.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">there's more stuff that they should learn,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:48.180" data-start="00:36:48.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, like another 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:50.140" data-start="00:36:50.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">since you mentioned literature,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:52.420" data-start="00:36:52.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">you know, latex and Bibtech is another</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:55.760" data-start="00:36:55.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">obvious extension of that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:58.780" data-start="00:36:58.780" data-video="qanda-teaching">But that is actually a good idea because the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:01.120" data-start="00:37:01.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">literature is what they have the hardest time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:04.640" data-start="00:37:04.640" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:06.980" data-start="00:37:06.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">papers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:03.080" data-start="00:37:03.080" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:12.480" data-start="00:37:12.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">I had a really nice experience because 1 of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:16.220" data-start="00:37:16.220" data-video="qanda-teaching">our librarians, our digital librarian,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:18.420" data-start="00:37:18.420" data-video="qanda-teaching">came along and talked to the students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:19.920" data-start="00:37:19.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">and he taught me about a tool called</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:21.580" data-start="00:37:21.580" data-video="qanda-teaching">litmap.com, which is basically,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:24.140" data-start="00:37:24.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know how it's implemented,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:25.460" data-start="00:37:25.460" data-video="qanda-teaching">but it's basically a graph,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:28.140" data-start="00:37:28.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">a graph representation of papers organized by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:31.620" data-start="00:37:31.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">citation. It's very, very cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:35.900" data-start="00:37:35.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">And the students who used to only find,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:38.480" data-start="00:37:38.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">I don't know, 1 paper and otherwise,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:41.180" data-start="00:37:41.180" data-video="qanda-teaching">of course, 15 YouTube videos and 100 blogs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:45.380" data-start="00:37:45.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">suddenly started finding and reading</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:49.540" data-start="00:37:49.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">scientific papers. It was only because of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:52.120" data-start="00:37:52.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">this presentation. So you should take the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:55.640" data-start="00:37:55.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think, I hope that is the right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:58.320" data-start="00:37:58.320" data-video="qanda-teaching">that's the right mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:00.280" data-start="00:38:00.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">litmaps. Okay, it's not litmap,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:02.380" data-start="00:38:02.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's called Litmaps. I'm gonna give you an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:05.640" data-start="00:38:05.640" data-video="qanda-teaching">example. I don't know if I can share this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:09.000" data-start="00:38:09.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">if you can look at that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:10.240" data-start="00:38:10.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">But basically you create a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:13.860" data-start="00:38:13.860" data-video="qanda-teaching">1 can use 1 of your papers as a seed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:16.800" data-start="00:38:16.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">and then it will create a graph,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:19.660" data-start="00:38:19.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">graph representation of it for you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:21.960" data-start="00:38:21.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">And this is a powerful tool in itself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:25.400" data-start="00:38:25.400" data-video="qanda-teaching">But what I'm saying is that the students</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:27.620" data-start="00:38:27.620" data-video="qanda-teaching">suddenly, their use of literature and that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:30.900" data-start="00:38:30.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">citation goes to the roof.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:33.080" data-start="00:38:33.080" data-video="qanda-teaching">And I've been waiting for that for probably</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:36.140" data-start="00:38:36.140" data-video="qanda-teaching">15 years since I've started teaching.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:38.760" data-start="00:38:38.760" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's crazy. That's really cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:46.500" data-start="00:38:46.500" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:47.720" data-start="00:38:47.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">it's called connected papers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:49.440" data-start="00:38:49.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's based on the open source citation data.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:54.140" data-start="00:38:54.140" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:56.500" data-start="00:38:56.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:00.060" data-start="00:39:00.060" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:01.560" data-start="00:39:01.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">learning the topic. It's like you find 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:03.960" data-start="00:39:03.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">paper, then you look into the connections.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:05.800" data-start="00:39:05.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">You can quickly narrow down to the most</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:08.260" data-start="00:39:08.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">cited, the core papers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:10.840" data-start="00:39:10.840" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:12.500" data-start="00:39:12.500" data-video="qanda-teaching">situation, you know, and they're always at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:14.800" data-start="00:39:14.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">the beginning. As you go on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:17.280" data-start="00:39:17.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">you develop different ways,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:18.680" data-start="00:39:18.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">but for these complete beginners,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:20.200" data-start="00:39:20.200" data-video="qanda-teaching">that's a good idea. Thank you so much for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:22.680" data-start="00:39:22.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">that. Okay, guys, anything else?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:31.240" data-start="00:39:31.240" data-video="qanda-teaching">I've enjoyed the conversation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:32.920" data-start="00:39:32.920" data-video="qanda-teaching">so you should definitely,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:36.000" data-start="00:39:36.000" data-video="qanda-teaching">I'm going to take some of these things away.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:38.800" data-start="00:39:38.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">Thank you so much for that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:42.340" data-start="00:39:42.340" data-video="qanda-teaching">Have you done, Yanta, have you done org mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:46.300" data-start="00:39:46.300" data-video="qanda-teaching">documentations yourself on WOC?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:48.900" data-start="00:39:48.900" data-video="qanda-teaching">Or do you have a sort of a favorite 1?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:52.120" data-start="00:39:52.120" data-video="qanda-teaching">I mean, I often on walk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:53.600" data-start="00:39:53.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">I often use the documentation for code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:56.740" data-start="00:39:56.740" data-video="qanda-teaching">blocks. I used to when I started doing that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:00.760" data-start="00:40:00.760" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:02.800" data-start="00:40:02.800" data-video="qanda-teaching">It's not part of the manual.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:59.620" data-start="00:39:59.620" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:05.280" data-start="00:40:05.280" data-video="qanda-teaching">yeah. And so I've used that a lot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:07.780" data-start="00:40:07.780" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:09.720" data-start="00:40:09.720" data-video="qanda-teaching">mostly fixing the errors.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:12.260" data-start="00:40:12.260" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:14.280" data-start="00:40:14.280" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:16.440" data-start="00:40:16.440" data-video="qanda-teaching">All right. Well, thank you very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:19.960" data-start="00:40:19.960" data-video="qanda-teaching">And it's great to be at this conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:22.360" data-start="00:40:22.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">I think I'm going to get on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:27.660" data-start="00:40:27.660" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:29.840" data-start="00:40:29.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">And for the talk, It was quite interesting to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:32.560" data-start="00:40:32.560" data-video="qanda-teaching">see our modules in actual teaching.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:36.200" data-start="00:40:36.200" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:38.600" data-start="00:40:38.600" data-video="qanda-teaching">German from Canada, the 1 of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:40.840" data-start="00:40:40.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">I had him on 1 of the slides because he,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:43.660" data-start="00:40:43.660" data-video="qanda-teaching">he inspired me to do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:45.380" data-start="00:40:45.380" data-video="qanda-teaching">And, and I wouldn't be at the conference if I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:47.540" data-start="00:40:47.540" data-video="qanda-teaching">hadn't contacted him and said oh here's my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:49.480" data-start="00:40:49.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">paper and he said oh you should come to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:50.980" data-start="00:40:50.980" data-video="qanda-teaching">conference and so that's why I came to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:52.680" data-start="00:40:52.680" data-video="qanda-teaching">conference. Thank you very much and as they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:58.480" data-start="00:40:58.480" data-video="qanda-teaching">say keep in touch. You're welcome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:04.100" data-start="00:41:04.100" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay bye-bye. You're welcome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:05.060" data-start="00:41:05.060" data-video="qanda-teaching">Okay, bye-bye. Take a copy of the chat before</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:15.820" data-start="00:41:15.820" data-video="qanda-teaching">you go, if you can. Happy weekend to just bye</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:22.360" data-start="00:41:22.360" data-video="qanda-teaching">bye.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:34.920" data-start="00:41:34.920" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:36.840" data-start="00:41:36.840" data-video="qanda-teaching">conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:00.060" data-start="00:42:00.060" data-video="qanda-teaching"></span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:birkenkrahe@lyon.edu?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20teaching%3A%20Teaching%20computer%20and%20data%20science%20with%20literate%20programming%20tools">birkenkrahe@lyon.edu</a></p>
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Emacs MultiMedia System (EMMS)
https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/emms/
Copyright © 2023 Yoni Rabkin
2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
2023-09-22T17:06:00Z
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<h1>Emacs MultiMedia System (EMMS)</h1>
<p>Yoni Rabkin - IRC: yrk</p>
<p>Format: 39-min talk; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room<br />
Status: Q&A to be extracted from the room recordings</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="emms-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main.vtt" default />"""<track kind="chapters" label="Chapters" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main--chapters.vtt" /><p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><pre class="chapters" data-target="emms-mainVideo">
<p>00:00.000 Introduction
01:03.320 The structure of this talk
01:21.320 Introduction to Emms: The practical part
08:04.240 The modeline
11:01.200 Meta-playlist mode
11:29.860 The browser
13:19.920 How Emms works: The technical part
16:23.820 The Emms core
16:36.440 Tracks
17:18.460 Playlist
18:22.080 Sources
19:22.160 Players
20:20.520 Info
21:36.660 The cache
22:51.620 Healthy back and forth: mpv, mpd, and GNU.FM
23:31.560 MPV
24:47.470 MPD
26:07.440 GNU FM and Libre FM
27:12.560 How we work: Emms development
28:52.590 The Rime Of The Ancient Maintainer
29:06.080 The life and times of an Emms patch
31:24.080 Let It Go: The release process
32:23.400 It Is Not In Our Stars, But In Ourselves: Future directions
34:44.849 Development policies: Interface language
36:05.980 Development policies: Freedom
38:12.370 Acknowledgements</p>
</pre>
<div></div>Duration: 38:38 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--intro.vtt">Download --intro.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--intro.webm">Download --intro.webm</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main--chapters.vtt">Download --main--chapters.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main.opus">Download --main.opus (21MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--main.webm">Download --main.webm (139MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--pad.html">Download --pad.html</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--pad.md">Download --pad.md</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin.outline">Download .outline</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/ppdF62LysvxpXgZVaeF9wk">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="emms-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="emms-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div>Duration: 32:38 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.json">Download --answers.json (1.3MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (19MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a> (unedited)</li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (52MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
<p><details class="help"><summary>Help wanted: Q&A could be indexed with chapter markers </summary></p>
<p>The Q&A session for this talk does not have chapter markers yet.
Would you like to help? See <span class="selflink">help with chapter markers</span> for more details. You can use the vidid="emms-qanda" if adding the markers to this wiki page, or e-mail your chapter notes to <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.</p>
<p>(If you want to work on this and you think it might take you a while, you can reserve this task by editing the page and adding volunteer="your-name date" or by e-mailing <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.)</p>
<p></details></p>
<ul>
<li>Introduction to Emms: A Practical Introduction</li>
<li>How Emms Works: The Technical Part</li>
<li>How We Work: Emms Development</li>
</ul>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: To warm up, what is the music playing during the lunch break?
<ul>
<li>A:(zaeph) Album: <em>basement days</em> by shoshin (Grant Shangreaux)
❤️
<ul>
<li><a href="https://cicadas.surf/~shoshin/casiopeia/basement%20days/">https://cicadas.surf/~shoshin/casiopeia/basement%20days/</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: For next emacsconf, could we have an EMMS playlist to follow the
talks along?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:I I like to use Music and AudioBooks in very different ways. With
music I like shuffling by artist and with AudioBooks want to read
sequentially and pick it the same playlist over a couple of
days/weeks. Do you have any tips for using these 2 opposing media
workflows
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
<li>Q: For audiobooks I use mpv with m4b files</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Is there a way to search your music selection by lyrics--
assuming those lyrics are in the meta-data or available elsewhere.
It would be neat to call songs up from the lyrics to the song.
<ul>
<li>A: For the lyrics: not possible to do right now. The caching
system is extremely naïve. Now, with sqlite3 integration, we
need to expand the cache to be a lot more greedy and lot more
flexible. The rewrite is in progress, and any related
information (including lyrics) will be integrated.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Are aliases available for the songs that you like? Defining those
aliases or shortcuts either inside or outside emms? ;;BTW: melpa
version of emms is missing; however, I was able to install from
elpa.
<ul>
<li>A: We'll put a pin on this</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Are there plans for managing meta-data with online resource
backends; i.e. discogs or musicbrains? What about something like
Beets in Emacs or part of EMMS?
<ul>
<li>A: That's an active discussion on the mailing-list right now.
We don't want to replicate what Beets does really well, and we
don't want a clunky interface with Beets. It's hard to tell
where to draw the line. Short answer: yes, we want to do that,
but the long answer is that it's complicated. The backends that
are used are complicated.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Have the developers considered using Emacs' "Customize"
functionality to persistently store settings when using
emms-setup-discover-players?
<ul>
<li>A: Another active project, especially with -discover-players.
It's tough to figure out what is a good way to not annoy people
too much.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Is there a way to store a bookmark pointing to a song in a
playlist?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: I like what you said about balancing the concern for software
freedom with the worry that this might alienate the package user. I
was wondering if you have advice for other maintainers on how to
communicate this sort of thing diplomatically, when you have to deny
implementing a feature for a "freedom" reason.
<ul>
<li>A:I found that people appreciate knowing where the project
stands. But care needs to be taken to be descriptive and not
perscriptive; explain why your project is like that as opposed
to making them feel judged. Some people are ornery and will get
upset anyway, but that's a part of working within the public
eye.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q: i wonder if it would be possible to add fluidsynth as a backend for emms to play midis</p>
<ul>
<li>A: I can add a fluidsynth backend to the tasklist no problem. right now, emms-player-fluidsynth works, but only with basic play/stop/pause support. I assume you are looking for more features than that. emms-player-simple.el defines a few, appropriately named, simple interfaces to some midi players such as fluidsynth and timidity
Notes:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>This guy has <chefs-kiss> taste in music, by the way. Take it from me, I'm a big snob</p>
<ul>
<li>i like how it was a bunch of classical and then Tool <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":)" /></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Brilliant 👏</li>
<li>Amazeballs 👏</li>
<li>oh that's a good idea</li>
<li>I just really enjoy seeing the folks that contribute to free software. They are truly people to emulate. That goes double for Yoni.</li>
<li>someone on the pad mentioned there not being an EMMS package in MELPA, that is intentional, since EMMS is built into Emacs, and we have the newest version in ELPA</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="emms-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:00:00.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Introduction</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.000" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Sound of Emacs, Emms, The Emacs Multimedia System.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:05.400" data-start="00:00:05.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Hi, I'm Yoni Rabkin and I'll be talking about Emms;</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:09.160" data-start="00:00:09.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the Emacs Multimedia System.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:11.520" data-start="00:00:11.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">What is Emms?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:14.560" data-start="00:00:14.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms displays and plays media from within Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:18.120" data-start="00:00:18.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">using a variety of external players</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:20.520" data-start="00:00:20.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and from different media sources.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:23.540" data-start="00:00:23.540" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms can run as a minimalistic player</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.680" data-start="00:00:26.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is controlled with no more than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:28.560" data-start="00:00:28.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a handful of simple M-x commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:31.120" data-start="00:00:31.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or as a fully-fledged interactive media browser and player.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:36.060" data-start="00:00:36.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms can display album art, play streaming audio,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:40.640" data-start="00:00:40.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">tag music files, search for lyrics,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:43.440" data-start="00:00:43.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">provide MPD connectivity, control the volume,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:46.680" data-start="00:00:46.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and more. Much more.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:49.620" data-start="00:00:49.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Emms project acts like Emacs in microcosm.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:53.880" data-start="00:00:53.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It slowly but surely grows bigger</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:56.560" data-start="00:00:56.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and gets ever more features.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.480" data-start="00:00:58.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Perhaps Emms will one day even have a text editor.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:03.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:01:03.320]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:03.320" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The structure of this talk</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:03.320" data-start="00:01:03.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The structure of this talk:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.600" data-start="00:01:05.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">We'll start with an introduction to Emms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:08.160" data-start="00:01:08.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is the practical part.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:10.560" data-start="00:01:10.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Then, a bit about how Emms works. That's the technical part.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:15.880" data-start="00:01:15.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Finally, how we work. All about Emms development.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:21.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:01:21.320]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:21.320" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Introduction to Emms: The practical part</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:21.320" data-start="00:01:21.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Introduction to Emms: The practical part:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.021" data-start="00:01:25.021" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I want this talk to be of immediate use to people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:28.680" data-start="00:01:28.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">so I'm going to present a quick TL;DR of the Emms manual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:33.520" data-start="00:01:33.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">concerning installation and use.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.400" data-start="00:01:36.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">By the end of this part you should be able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:38.440" data-start="00:01:38.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">install, configure, and use Emms in a variety of ways.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.280" data-start="00:01:45.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Where can I get Emms?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.120" data-start="00:01:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms is distributed primarily via GNU ELPA.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:54.320" data-start="00:01:54.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">So it's really only a M-x list-packages away at any moment.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:02.080" data-start="00:02:02.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">There's also a website hosted at gnu.org.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:07.720" data-start="00:02:07.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Among other things on the website, you'll find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:11.020" data-start="00:02:11.020" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a copy of the friendly, robust, and up-to-date user manual.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:21.280" data-start="00:02:21.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Installing Emms has become progressively easier over time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:25.920" data-start="00:02:25.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and will continue to get easier.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:28.720" data-start="00:02:28.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">In the bad old days, it required downloading a tarball</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:32.560" data-start="00:02:32.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and compiling a C language shim</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:35.060" data-start="00:02:35.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to enable reading metadata from media files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:38.920" data-start="00:02:38.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">But those days are long gone, and installing Emms is now</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:43.360" data-start="00:02:43.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">as easy as invoking M-x list-packages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:47.040" data-start="00:02:47.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">installing the Emms package, and placing as few as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:51.840" data-start="00:02:51.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">2 or 3 lines of configuration in your Emacs initialization.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:57.720" data-start="00:02:57.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">So after the package is installed via ELPA,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:02.840" data-start="00:03:02.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you can add these few lines.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:08.440" data-start="00:03:08.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-all</code> will make available all of the stable features</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:12.360" data-start="00:03:12.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which are shipped with Emms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:15.740" data-start="00:03:15.740" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The <code>emms-player-list</code> variable is a list of players</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:20.840" data-start="00:03:20.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">like MPV, MPlayer, VLC, etc.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.600" data-start="00:03:25.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms will call and control these external players</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:29.400" data-start="00:03:29.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to play your media.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:32.000" data-start="00:03:32.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The variable <code>emms-info-functions</code> is a list of ways</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:36.660" data-start="00:03:36.660" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for Emms to read the metadata in your media files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:40.960" data-start="00:03:40.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">so that Emms can display song title, artist name,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:45.280" data-start="00:03:45.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">year of production, etc.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:49.480" data-start="00:03:49.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The <code>emms-info-native</code> feature in the setup example</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:55.200" data-start="00:03:55.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is the built-in metadata reader</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:58.160" data-start="00:03:58.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">written entirely in Emacs Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.800" data-start="00:04:01.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">But there are also other backends</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:04.240" data-start="00:04:04.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which can call external programs for info</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:07.720" data-start="00:04:07.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">such as TinyTag, the TagLib library, exiftool, and so on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:14.720" data-start="00:04:14.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">You can then old-school restart your Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:17.560" data-start="00:04:17.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or simply evaluate the above couple of lines to get going.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:22.800" data-start="00:04:22.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now that we have Emms installed and configured,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:26.280" data-start="00:04:26.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">we should load some media for player.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:29.240" data-start="00:04:29.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">There are multiple ways to load media into Emms for playing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:32.720" data-start="00:04:32.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">They can be directories with local files,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:36.280" data-start="00:04:36.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">synchronized from a remote instance of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:38.520" data-start="00:04:38.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a music player daemon, PLS or M3U playlists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:44.720" data-start="00:04:44.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a list of URLs for streaming,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:47.440" data-start="00:04:47.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or even Emms' own native playlist format</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:51.120" data-start="00:04:51.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is unsurprisingly a just serialized Emacs Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:57.200" data-start="00:04:57.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">No matter how you add tracks to Emms,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:00.200" data-start="00:05:00.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you'll end up with a playlist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:03.880" data-start="00:05:03.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A fundamental strength of Emms is that each playlist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:08.960" data-start="00:05:08.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is a regular Emacs buffer and the track listing therein</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:13.480" data-start="00:05:13.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is nothing more than text lines with property overlays.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:17.860" data-start="00:05:17.860" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This means that you can navigate, search, copy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:21.360" data-start="00:05:21.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and edit an Emms playlist buffer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.880" data-start="00:05:24.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">just as you would any Emacs buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.680" data-start="00:05:28.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If you want to reorganize the tracks in the playlist,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:31.320" data-start="00:05:31.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">then you can simply kill yank the tracks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.960" data-start="00:05:33.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">just as you would any buffer with lines of text,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.760" data-start="00:05:36.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and the same can be done between multiple playlist buffers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:42.960" data-start="00:05:42.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One of the most straightforward ways to add media</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:46.120" data-start="00:05:46.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is to invoke a command like <code>M-x emms-add-directory-tree</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:51.940" data-start="00:05:51.940" data-video="mainVideo-emms">You can point it to the top of a set of directories</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:55.680" data-start="00:05:55.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with playable files for Emms to traverse.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:00.280" data-start="00:06:00.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Another rather convenient method is to mark files in Dired</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:05.200" data-start="00:06:05.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and to invoke <code>emms-add-dired</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:09.680" data-start="00:06:09.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I definitely use this one a lot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:11.680" data-start="00:06:11.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Emms playlist mode binds</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.120" data-start="00:06:16.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a number of useful keys and commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:19.880" data-start="00:06:19.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It's highly recommended that you either</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:23.960" data-start="00:06:23.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">read the friendly manual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:25.960" data-start="00:06:25.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or hit "C-h m" in a playlist buffer to discover them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:32.320" data-start="00:06:32.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now we have a playlist buffer with a number of tracks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.960" data-start="00:06:35.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">so the next step is going to be playback.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:40.820" data-start="00:06:40.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms can be used as a minimalistic player</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:44.400" data-start="00:06:44.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with nothing more than a handful of commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.320" data-start="00:06:48.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Once there is a current Emms playlist,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:51.360" data-start="00:06:51.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">invoking emms-start will begin playing the current track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:57.560" data-start="00:06:57.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now of course in a new playlist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.040" data-start="00:07:00.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that would be the first track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:02.580" data-start="00:07:02.580" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now emms-next, emms-pause, and emms-stop</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:07.200" data-start="00:07:07.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">do exactly what you think they do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:11.260" data-start="00:07:11.260" data-video="mainVideo-emms">To visit the current playlist,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:13.200" data-start="00:07:13.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you can invoke M-x emms-playlist-mode-go,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:17.640" data-start="00:07:17.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is a long command I personally bind to "M-f12".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:22.700" data-start="00:07:22.700" data-video="mainVideo-emms">You'll be taken to the current playlist buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:25.320" data-start="00:07:25.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">While you can have multiple playlist buffers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:29.240" data-start="00:07:29.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">only one is current for the purposes of playback commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:35.780" data-start="00:07:35.780" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The playlist buffer has keys bound</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.120" data-start="00:07:38.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to control the media being played.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:39.920" data-start="00:07:39.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-seek-forward</code> and <code>emms-seek-backwards</code> allow you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.200" data-start="00:07:44.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to scrub along the media being played.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:49.040" data-start="00:07:49.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Which commands are available is a function of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:51.720" data-start="00:07:51.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the player backend being employed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:54.200" data-start="00:07:54.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The simplest of players may have nothing more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:56.600" data-start="00:07:56.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">than the ability to play, stop, and seek,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.560" data-start="00:07:59.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but others may implement a plethora of commands.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:04.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:08:04.240]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:04.240" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The modeline</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:04.240" data-start="00:08:04.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Modeline: Emms will by default display</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:08.880" data-start="00:08:08.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the name of the currently playing track in the mode line</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:11.840" data-start="00:08:11.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with information such as playing time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.000" data-start="00:08:15.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The mode line format is controlled</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.560" data-start="00:08:15.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">via the <code>emms-mode-line-format</code> variable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:20.640" data-start="00:08:20.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and the <code>emms-mode-line-playlist-current</code> function.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:27.140" data-start="00:08:27.140" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Metadata and the cache.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:31.040" data-start="00:08:31.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It would be sufficient for emms to simply list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:34.800" data-start="00:08:34.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the file names or urls of each piece of media,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:38.620" data-start="00:08:38.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but unless you name your music and media</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:41.000" data-start="00:08:41.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with obsessive consistency and precision,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:43.940" data-start="00:08:43.940" data-video="mainVideo-emms">not that there is anything wrong with that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.680" data-start="00:08:46.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">then the resulting list will be a bit of an eyesore.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.860" data-start="00:08:50.860" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Moreover, there are a lot of other useful metadata</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:54.120" data-start="00:08:54.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">in the media files, including cool stuff like album art.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:58.620" data-start="00:08:58.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">So instead of just files, Emms will try</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:01.920" data-start="00:09:01.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to extract metadata from each track</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:04.400" data-start="00:09:04.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and display a nicely-formatted track listing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:08.220" data-start="00:09:08.220" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The format can be controlled by customizing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:10.800" data-start="00:09:10.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the variable <code>emms-track-description-function</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:15.460" data-start="00:09:15.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms uses so-called info methods to extract</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:19.640" data-start="00:09:19.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the metadata from each file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:22.440" data-start="00:09:22.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-info-native</code>, which I mentioned before,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.680" data-start="00:09:25.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is the built-in metadata reader written in Emacs Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:30.360" data-start="00:09:30.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It provides support for Ogg Vorbis, Ogg Opus, FLAC, and MP3.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:37.660" data-start="00:09:37.660" data-video="mainVideo-emms">However, if you have media in other formats,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:40.360" data-start="00:09:40.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you can also add info methods</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:42.440" data-start="00:09:42.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to the <code>emms-info-functions</code> list,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:45.240" data-start="00:09:45.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which call external programs such as exiftool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:48.700" data-start="00:09:48.700" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the LibTag library, tiny-tag, etc. to read file metadata.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:55.420" data-start="00:09:55.420" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Since reading metadata takes time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:58.200" data-start="00:09:58.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and that metadata doesn't change very often,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:01.340" data-start="00:10:01.340" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms builds a cache as it extracts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:04.080" data-start="00:10:04.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the information from each file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:06.860" data-start="00:10:06.860" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The first time loading of thousands of tracks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:09.880" data-start="00:10:09.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">into the emms cache may take a while,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:13.260" data-start="00:10:13.260" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but as is the nature of caching, subsequent loads</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.000" data-start="00:10:17.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">will be nearly instantaneous.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:20.060" data-start="00:10:20.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">To ease loading huge media collections,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:22.720" data-start="00:10:22.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">emms also can populate the cache asynchronously,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:26.520" data-start="00:10:26.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">so that your emacs isn't locked up in the interim.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:30.520" data-start="00:10:30.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Let's talk about streams and URLs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:33.780" data-start="00:10:33.780" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Not all playlist entries need to be associated with files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.620" data-start="00:10:37.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It's possible to add streaming playlists</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:39.840" data-start="00:10:39.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and URLs to any playlist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:42.640" data-start="00:10:42.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms also comes with a built-in eclectic list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:46.120" data-start="00:10:46.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">of streaming audio stations to get you started.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:50.040" data-start="00:10:50.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Any playlist entry can be a URL,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:52.640" data-start="00:10:52.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and that URL will be passed on to the media player backend,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:56.720" data-start="00:10:56.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which can play it, if any.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:01.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:11:01.200]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:01.200" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Meta-playlist mode</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:11:01.200" data-start="00:11:01.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Meta-playlist mode:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:03.680" data-start="00:11:03.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms also has meta-playlist mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.300" data-start="00:11:08.300" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to help manage multiple playlists.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:11.960" data-start="00:11:11.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">When you invoke meta-playlist mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:13.880" data-start="00:11:13.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you will see a listing of all of the current Emms playlists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.960" data-start="00:11:16.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and this mode binds a handful of useful keybindings</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:22.000" data-start="00:11:22.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to help manage those playlists.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:29.860" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:11:29.860]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:29.860" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The browser</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:11:29.860" data-start="00:11:29.860" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Browser:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:31.760" data-start="00:11:31.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Music doesn't always lend itself to being viewed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:35.440" data-start="00:11:35.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">as a series of discrete files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.200" data-start="00:11:38.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">While there may be a good taxonomy of music</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:41.560" data-start="00:11:41.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that can be reflected using directories and filenames,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:45.460" data-start="00:11:45.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">there are other aspects which cannot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.100" data-start="00:11:49.100" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is especially true when you consider that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:51.600" data-start="00:11:51.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">unlike many computer file taxonomies,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:55.300" data-start="00:11:55.300" data-video="mainVideo-emms">music files may contain</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.720" data-start="00:11:56.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a lot of self-descriptive information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:58.760" data-start="00:11:58.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">in the form of metadata,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.620" data-start="00:12:00.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">such as the year a work was published, the composer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:04.280" data-start="00:12:04.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the performing artist, etc.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:07.520" data-start="00:12:07.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Therefore, it makes sense for Emms to enable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:11.080" data-start="00:12:11.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a different view into a media collection</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:13.200" data-start="00:12:13.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is based on the cached metadata.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:17.060" data-start="00:12:17.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The browser interface binds a host of keys</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:19.840" data-start="00:12:19.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to help navigate the tree structure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:22.080" data-start="00:12:22.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">of the metadata information.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:24.540" data-start="00:12:24.540" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Since browser display</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:25.840" data-start="00:12:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is not predicated upon directory structure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:28.280" data-start="00:12:28.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you can invoke functions such as <code>emms-browse-by-album</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:32.940" data-start="00:12:32.940" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or <code>emms-browse-by-artist</code>, etc.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.640" data-start="00:12:35.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to view the collection in different ways.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:42.180" data-start="00:12:42.180" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms can do a lot more,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:43.760" data-start="00:12:43.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but covering it all would take too much time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:47.020" data-start="00:12:47.020" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I do recommend opening the fine Emms manual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:50.240" data-start="00:12:50.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and getting to know some additional features</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:52.320" data-start="00:12:52.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">such as sorting tracks in playlists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:55.000" data-start="00:12:55.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">sorting and filtering in the browser,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:57.200" data-start="00:12:57.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">editing track information,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:59.080" data-start="00:12:59.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">deriving a new playlist from an existing playlist,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:01.920" data-start="00:13:01.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the music player daemon, lyrics display, volume control,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:07.040" data-start="00:13:07.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">bookmarks, GNU FM, and Dbus/Mpris support.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.360" data-start="00:13:13.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I hope this was a useful introduction to Emms.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:13:19.920]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:19.920" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">How Emms works: The technical part</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:13:19.920" data-start="00:13:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">How Emms Works: The technical part:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:23.220" data-start="00:13:23.220" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This part is an overview of how Emms works.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:26.820" data-start="00:13:26.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">By the end of this, you should be familiar enough</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:29.760" data-start="00:13:29.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with Emms internals to hack on it. Hint hint.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:34.740" data-start="00:13:34.740" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A short history of Emms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:37.680" data-start="00:13:37.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms is 20 years old as of the time of writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:42.940" data-start="00:13:42.940" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Old enough to drink in many countries.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:45.400" data-start="00:13:45.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This means it was developed back in 2003</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:48.880" data-start="00:13:48.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for emacs 21.2 or thereabouts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:53.440" data-start="00:13:53.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">As developers, we don't go around looking to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:56.280" data-start="00:13:56.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">replace code just because it's old.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:58.840" data-start="00:13:58.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">On the other hand, some parts were inadequate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.840" data-start="00:14:01.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or just didn't age gracefully.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:04.920" data-start="00:14:04.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And we have been partially or completely rewriting those.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:10.360" data-start="00:14:10.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I became the maintainer of Emms about a decade ago,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.720" data-start="00:14:13.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but I didn't start the project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:16.100" data-start="00:14:16.100" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Jorgen Schäfer started the project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.020" data-start="00:14:21.020" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I reached out to Jorgen</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:22.520" data-start="00:14:22.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and he kindly shared some of his recollections.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:25.620" data-start="00:14:25.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Jorgen states that Emms was born back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:28.200" data-start="00:14:28.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">when the music format wars raged.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:31.280" data-start="00:14:31.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">MP3 was the standard, but overshadowed with patent issues.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:38.700" data-start="00:14:38.700" data-video="mainVideo-emms">In fact, Technicolor and Fraunhofer IIS</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:42.480" data-start="00:14:42.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">only stopped licensing their patents for MP3</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:45.560" data-start="00:14:45.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">as recently as April of 2017.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:49.360" data-start="00:14:49.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Jorgen said that, and I quote,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:53.540" data-start="00:14:53.540" data-video="mainVideo-emms">"I needed a tool that was player agnostic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:56.080" data-start="00:14:56.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and that could deal with a large collection of music files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:59.440" data-start="00:14:59.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And I did not want any of the GUI music players</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:02.800" data-start="00:15:02.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that existed back then.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:04.040" data-start="00:15:04.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Primarily, actually, because I did not want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:07.520" data-start="00:15:07.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to be switching windows to skip to the next song.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:11.400" data-start="00:15:11.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If I remember correctly,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:12.880" data-start="00:15:12.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I had just a shell script before that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:16.280" data-start="00:15:16.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">But I figured I lived in Emacs, so why not write a tool</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:20.160" data-start="00:15:20.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that I can control my music from Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:23.040" data-start="00:15:23.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">without ever having to leave Emacs?" Unquote.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:27.760" data-start="00:15:27.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">We can see that Jorgen's motivations were of the best kind,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.120" data-start="00:15:32.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to stay in Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:35.320" data-start="00:15:35.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms, an architecture of sensible abstractions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:40.680" data-start="00:15:40.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms can be divided into a number of parts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:44.040" data-start="00:15:44.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The core, tracks, playlists, sources, players,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:48.120" data-start="00:15:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">info, cache, and ancillary.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:51.760" data-start="00:15:51.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now David J. Wheeler once said</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:53.680" data-start="00:15:53.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that all problems in computer science</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:56.000" data-start="00:15:56.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">can be solved by another level of indirection,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:59.800" data-start="00:15:59.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">except of course for the problem</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:01.640" data-start="00:16:01.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">of too many layers of indirection.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:04.420" data-start="00:16:04.420" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms core has survived this long</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:07.000" data-start="00:16:07.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">because it makes sensible and flexible coding abstractions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:11.620" data-start="00:16:11.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Keep this in mind as we explore the implementation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.500" data-start="00:16:15.500" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This following part of the talk will also be invaluable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:18.880" data-start="00:16:18.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">if you want to hack on Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:21.560" data-start="00:16:21.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Another hint.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:23.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:16:23.820]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:23.820" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Emms core</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:16:23.820" data-start="00:16:23.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Emms core.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:25.360" data-start="00:16:25.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The core defines tracks, playlists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:29.080" data-start="00:16:29.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a way to start and stop playback,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:31.760" data-start="00:16:31.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">as well as ways to proceed to the next track.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:36.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:16:36.440]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:36.440" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Tracks</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:16:36.440" data-start="00:16:36.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Tracks:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:38.460" data-start="00:16:38.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms tracks consist of a list whose CAR is the symbol track,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:44.780" data-start="00:16:44.780" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and CADR is an alist starting with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:47.080" data-start="00:16:47.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the association of `type'.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:50.640" data-start="00:16:50.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Type can be something like file, streamlist, URL, etc.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:56.740" data-start="00:16:56.740" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A track of classical music from Bach's Art of Fugue</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:00.080" data-start="00:17:00.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">may look something like this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:04.380" data-start="00:17:04.380" data-video="mainVideo-emms">While a track may contain many associations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:07.600" data-start="00:17:07.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the number of associations remains a small constant</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:11.080" data-start="00:17:11.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">from the perspective of computational steps required</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:14.200" data-start="00:17:14.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to find any particular association.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:17:18.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:17:18.460]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:17:18.460" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Playlist</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:17:18.460" data-start="00:17:18.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Playlist:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:20.620" data-start="00:17:20.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">An Emms playlist consists of an Emacs buffer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:23.480" data-start="00:17:23.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with a buffer-local non-nil variable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:26.460" data-start="00:17:26.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-playlist-buffer-p</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:29.820" data-start="00:17:29.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The buffer can contain anything, any amount or type of text,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:33.720" data-start="00:17:33.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or anything else.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:35.960" data-start="00:17:35.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms tracks are stored in text properties within the buffer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:40.500" data-start="00:17:40.500" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with the unimaginatively named text property <code>emms-track</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:46.400" data-start="00:17:46.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">For Emms, to go to the next track consists of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:49.240" data-start="00:17:49.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">nothing more than looking for the next text property change</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:52.840" data-start="00:17:52.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">containing <code>emms-track</code>, wherever that is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:57.180" data-start="00:17:57.180" data-video="mainVideo-emms">That means that there is a healthy decoupling between</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.540" data-start="00:18:00.540" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the visual representation of a playlist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:03.840" data-start="00:18:03.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and its contents as far as Emms is concerned.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.260" data-start="00:18:08.260" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This decoupling allows Emms playlist buffers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:11.600" data-start="00:18:11.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to look like anything as long as that anything consists of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.320" data-start="00:18:15.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">one or more <code>emms-track</code> text properties.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:18:22.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:18:22.080]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:18:22.080" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Sources</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:18:22.080" data-start="00:18:22.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Sources:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.580" data-start="00:18:23.580" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A source is how you tell Emms:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:25.840" data-start="00:18:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">"Go and get those things and turn them into tracks."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:29.780" data-start="00:18:29.780" data-video="mainVideo-emms">More specifically, an Emms source is a function called in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:34.480" data-start="00:18:34.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a playlist buffer in order to add tracks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:37.260" data-start="00:18:37.260" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And even more specifically, a source is really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:40.200" data-start="00:18:40.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">a family of related functions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:42.680" data-start="00:18:42.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">defined by the macro <code>define-emms-source</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:47.680" data-start="00:18:47.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A straightforward example</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:49.960" data-start="00:18:49.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is the function <code>emms-add-directory</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:52.960" data-start="00:18:52.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which adds an entire directory of files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:55.880" data-start="00:18:55.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to the current playlist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:57.440" data-start="00:18:57.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It accepts, or interactively queries for, a directory</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:02.320" data-start="00:19:02.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and iterates over each file in that directory,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:06.120" data-start="00:19:06.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">adding them as tracks to the playlist buffer as it goes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:10.760" data-start="00:19:10.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms comes with sources for files, directories, URLs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:15.040" data-start="00:19:15.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">playlists of various formats,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:17.320" data-start="00:19:17.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">files from dired mode, and etc.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:19:22.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:19:22.160]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:19:22.160" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Players</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:19:22.160" data-start="00:19:22.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Players:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:24.880" data-start="00:19:24.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">An Emms player is, at its simplest, a data structure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:28.960" data-start="00:19:28.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with three functions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:30.840" data-start="00:19:30.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One to start playing, one to stop,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:34.520" data-start="00:19:34.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and one which returns true if the player knows</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:38.180" data-start="00:19:38.180" data-video="mainVideo-emms">how to play a given track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:41.280" data-start="00:19:41.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">However, if your player also knows how to pause, resume,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:44.760" data-start="00:19:44.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">seek, etc, then additional functions can be added</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:48.280" data-start="00:19:48.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to the player data structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:51.320" data-start="00:19:51.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is abstract enough to be able to, for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:55.400" data-start="00:19:55.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">define a simple player for images with the help of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:58.840" data-start="00:19:58.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the <code>define-emms-simple-player</code> macro.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:04.580" data-start="00:20:04.580" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The above will define a player called <code>emms-player-display</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:09.560" data-start="00:20:09.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which would call ImageMagick's <code>display</code> command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:12.960" data-start="00:20:12.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on each file in our playlist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:15.640" data-start="00:20:15.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with the image file extension we listed.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:20:20.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:20:20.520]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:20:20.520" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Info</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:20:20.520" data-start="00:20:20.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Info:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:23.060" data-start="00:20:23.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">As previously described, Emms comes with info methods,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:28.020" data-start="00:20:28.020" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which are functions to add</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:29.640" data-start="00:20:29.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">descriptive information to tracks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:32.340" data-start="00:20:32.340" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms is set up so that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:34.640" data-start="00:20:34.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the hook <code>emms-track-initialize-functions</code> is called</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:37.720" data-start="00:20:37.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">when a track is created, and that ends up calling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:41.640" data-start="00:20:41.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the info methods listed in the <code>emms-info-functions</code> list.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:46.280" data-start="00:20:46.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">These will modify the track data structure to add metadata.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:51.200" data-start="00:20:51.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One of the coolest recent features of Emms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:54.320" data-start="00:20:54.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is <code>emms-info-native</code>, written by Petteri Hintsanen;</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:58.700" data-start="00:20:58.700" data-video="mainVideo-emms">again, sorry for the pronunciation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:01.326" data-start="00:21:01.326" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-info-native</code> is a purely Emacs Lisp implementation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:06.520" data-start="00:21:06.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which reads Ogg Vorbis, Ogg Opus, FLAC, and MP3 files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:11.440" data-start="00:21:11.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and parses out the metadata.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:14.680" data-start="00:21:14.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is in comparison with other info readers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:17.520" data-start="00:21:17.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which Emms supports, which all involve calling out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:20.560" data-start="00:21:20.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to external processes and parsing the values returned.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:25.620" data-start="00:21:25.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-info-native</code> works by unpacking and examining</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:29.320" data-start="00:21:29.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the binary data in the media file headers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:32.040" data-start="00:21:32.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and parsing the data layout specifications.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:21:36.660" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:21:36.660]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:21:36.660" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The cache</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:21:36.660" data-start="00:21:36.660" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Cache:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:38.880" data-start="00:21:38.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Emms cache is a mapping between a full path name</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:43.280" data-start="00:21:43.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and its associated information.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:45.720" data-start="00:21:45.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Once information is extracted from a file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:48.200" data-start="00:21:48.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">using an info method, that information is then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:50.760" data-start="00:21:50.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">associated with that file in the cache.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:53.980" data-start="00:21:53.980" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One thing to bear in mind is that the caching system</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:57.160" data-start="00:21:57.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">was originally written back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:58.360" data-start="00:21:58.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">when slow spinning disks were common.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:00.760" data-start="00:22:00.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A 32GB SSD drive cost close to $700 in 2006,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:07.520" data-start="00:22:07.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is the equivalent of about $1,000</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:10.280" data-start="00:22:10.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">at the time of writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:12.440" data-start="00:22:12.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">But despite the speed of modern drives,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:15.260" data-start="00:22:15.260" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the caching system is still worth using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:17.440" data-start="00:22:17.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for larger music collections.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:19.680" data-start="00:22:19.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The caching system is also a prerequisite</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:22.440" data-start="00:22:22.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for being able to use the Emms browser.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:26.600" data-start="00:22:26.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The cache implementation is relatively naive.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:30.380" data-start="00:22:30.380" data-video="mainVideo-emms">For instance, moving a file will invalidate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:33.200" data-start="00:22:33.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that cache entry for that file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:35.800" data-start="00:22:35.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and will require a refresh.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:37.580" data-start="00:22:37.580" data-video="mainVideo-emms">However, relatively little work has been done</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:40.600" data-start="00:22:40.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to the cache implementation over the years</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:42.780" data-start="00:22:42.780" data-video="mainVideo-emms">since it has proven to be good enough</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:45.000" data-start="00:22:45.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for the majority of situations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:47.060" data-start="00:22:47.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Which is to say, nobody complained.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:22:51.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:22:51.620]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:22:51.620" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Healthy back and forth: mpv, mpd, and GNU.FM</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:22:51.620" data-start="00:22:51.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Healthy back and forth. MPV, MPD, GNU.FM</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:56.240" data-start="00:22:56.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Process communication with a simple media player</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:00.120" data-start="00:23:00.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">can be as straightforward</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:01.760" data-start="00:23:01.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">as starting an asynchronous process</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:03.800" data-start="00:23:03.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and waiting for that process to complete</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:05.800" data-start="00:23:05.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">in order to move to the next track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:08.620" data-start="00:23:08.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is how the example above</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:10.880" data-start="00:23:10.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with ImageMagick's display binary worked.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:13.760" data-start="00:23:13.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">However, Emms also handles asynchronous</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:17.440" data-start="00:23:17.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">two-way communication with processes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:20.300" data-start="00:23:20.300" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A simple example of this would be sending strings</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:23.960" data-start="00:23:23.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to a running process such as the pause command to VLC.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:23:31.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:23:31.560]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:23:31.560" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">MPV</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:23:31.560" data-start="00:23:31.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">MPV:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:33.380" data-start="00:23:33.380" data-video="mainVideo-emms">MPV is a popular media player forked</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:37.040" data-start="00:23:37.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">in a roundabout way from mplayer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:39.900" data-start="00:23:39.900" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One of its most notable features is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:42.080" data-start="00:23:42.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">support for a robust client API.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:46.600" data-start="00:23:46.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Mike Kazantsev has been working since 2018</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:52.960" data-start="00:23:52.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to develop the excellent `emms-player-mpv.el'.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:58.350" data-start="00:23:58.350" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It can communicate with a long running MPV process</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:02.000" data-start="00:24:02.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">via Unix sockets or IP sockets.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:07.180" data-start="00:24:07.180" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This allows for MPV to do things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:11.170" data-start="00:24:11.170" data-video="mainVideo-emms">like update ICY metadata for streaming audio.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:14.890" data-start="00:24:14.890" data-video="mainVideo-emms">So that, for example, when a song changes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:17.640" data-start="00:24:17.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">while you're listening to a streaming audio via Emms,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:22.050" data-start="00:24:22.050" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the song title displayed in the mode line</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:24.680" data-start="00:24:24.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and track listing can update as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:28.330" data-start="00:24:28.330" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This means that deep inside the code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:30.400" data-start="00:24:30.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">there is an Emacs <code>make-network-process</code> call.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:35.630" data-start="00:24:35.630" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The fact that Mike has put this together</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:37.920" data-start="00:24:37.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">in fewer than 1,000 lines of legible Emacs Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:42.640" data-start="00:24:42.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is a testament to some serious coding ability.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:24:47.470" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:24:47.470]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:24:47.470" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">MPD</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:24:47.470" data-start="00:24:47.470" data-video="mainVideo-emms">MPD:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:49.610" data-start="00:24:49.610" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Similar to MPV but potentially</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:52.400" data-start="00:24:52.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on a completely different machine</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:54.120" data-start="00:24:54.120" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is Emms support for the Music Player Daemon.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:58.460" data-start="00:24:58.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Music Player Daemon or MPD is a media player</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:01.520" data-start="00:25:01.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with an explicit client-server design</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:03.960" data-start="00:25:03.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and communicates with Emms via a network process.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:09.950" data-start="00:25:09.950" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Unfortunately, MPD support has never been all that great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:16.090" data-start="00:25:16.090" data-video="mainVideo-emms">But this isn't the emms developers fault!</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:20.470" data-start="00:25:20.470" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Because unlike every other media player</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:25.600" data-start="00:25:25.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that Emms interfaces with MPD is designed around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:29.730" data-start="00:25:29.730" data-video="mainVideo-emms">its own internal playlist database.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:31.930" data-start="00:25:31.930" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is a surprising design decision</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:35.270" data-start="00:25:35.270" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on the MPD developers' part</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:37.650" data-start="00:25:37.650" data-video="mainVideo-emms">since it goes against the client-server mindset.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:41.750" data-start="00:25:41.750" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A consequence is that we end up having to try and coordinate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:45.960" data-start="00:25:45.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and harmonize the MPD playlist with the Emms playlist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:51.400" data-start="00:25:51.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I can foresee writing a completely new MPD mode for Emms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:56.690" data-start="00:25:56.690" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is designed to be a true pure MPD client.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:01.510" data-start="00:26:01.510" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Unless of course someone volunteers to beat me to it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:05.340" data-start="00:26:05.340" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Hint hint.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:26:07.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:26:07.440]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:26:07.440" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">GNU FM and Libre FM</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:26:07.440" data-start="00:26:07.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">GNU FM and Libre FM:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:10.960" data-start="00:26:10.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Libre FM is a music community which allows you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:13.640" data-start="00:26:13.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to share your listening habits with other users of the site.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:17.450" data-start="00:26:17.450" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A kind of online listening party.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.270" data-start="00:26:21.270" data-video="mainVideo-emms">In the case of <code>emms-librefm-scrobber.el</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:25.650" data-start="00:26:25.650" data-video="mainVideo-emms">we use Emacs' <code>url-retrieve</code> function</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:28.640" data-start="00:26:28.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to asynchronously send to a URL</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:32.450" data-start="00:26:32.450" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and then fire a callback function to process the response.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:40.050" data-start="00:26:40.050" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This represents numerous challenges</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:42.680" data-start="00:26:42.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to implement within Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:45.090" data-start="00:26:45.090" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The primary issue being that Emacs itself</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:47.400" data-start="00:26:47.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is pretty weak at doing anything</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:50.100" data-start="00:26:50.100" data-video="mainVideo-emms">truly and really asynchronously.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:54.220" data-start="00:26:54.220" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I can say with confident sarcasm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:56.400" data-start="00:26:56.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and with tongue firmly planted in cheek</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:59.530" data-start="00:26:59.530" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that it is almost as if the original designers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:02.880" data-start="00:27:02.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">of Emacs didn't foresee their text editor</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:05.840" data-start="00:27:05.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">needing to play music</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:07.040" data-start="00:27:07.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">while interacting with a remote network server.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:09.820" data-start="00:27:09.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">How myopic!</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:27:12.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:27:12.560]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:27:12.560" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">How we work: Emms development</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:27:12.560" data-start="00:27:12.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">How we work: Emms development:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:15.700" data-start="00:27:15.700" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This part is an overview of how Emms is developed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:19.620" data-start="00:27:19.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">By the end of this part you should be able to understand</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:23.900" data-start="00:27:23.900" data-video="mainVideo-emms">how we hacked this project, and how you can too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:28.720" data-start="00:27:28.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Where it's at.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:29.950" data-start="00:27:29.950" data-video="mainVideo-emms">How to find our forge.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:32.370" data-start="00:27:32.370" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms has been hosted at the FSF's forge, Savannah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:36.500" data-start="00:27:36.500" data-video="mainVideo-emms">since around 2003.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:39.840" data-start="00:27:39.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms is distributed via GNU ELPA and integrated into Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:46.230" data-start="00:27:46.230" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Before ELPA it was distributed as a tarball</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:49.800" data-start="00:27:49.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">via ftp.gnu.org but that stopped back in 2020.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:55.140" data-start="00:27:55.140" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I was initially resistant to ELPA but around the time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:58.720" data-start="00:27:58.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">when the thousandth person asked me why Emms isn't on ELPA,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:03.850" data-start="00:28:03.850" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I realized that it had to happen.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:07.210" data-start="00:28:07.210" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms can also be found in other places</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:10.600" data-start="00:28:10.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">such as Melpa or GitHub but we, the developers of Emms,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:16.080" data-start="00:28:16.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">have nothing to do with that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:18.000" data-start="00:28:18.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and we don't monitor those channels.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:21.760" data-start="00:28:21.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If you want the source straight from, well, the source,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:26.300" data-start="00:28:26.300" data-video="mainVideo-emms">then go to the Savannah Git repository.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:30.370" data-start="00:28:30.370" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Look who's talking: Where development discussion happens.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:34.990" data-start="00:28:34.990" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If you want to talk to us, discussions all happen</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:38.000" data-start="00:28:38.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on emms-help@gnu.org.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:41.430" data-start="00:28:41.430" data-video="mainVideo-emms">We used to use emms-patches@gnu.org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:45.560" data-start="00:28:45.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but didn't feel like the volume of incoming patches</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:48.280" data-start="00:28:48.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">justified a separate mailing list.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:28:52.590" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:28:52.590]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:28:52.590" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Rime Of The Ancient Maintainer</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:28:52.590" data-start="00:28:52.590" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The Rime Of The Ancient Maintainer:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:55.720" data-start="00:28:55.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">There are a number of activities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:57.480" data-start="00:28:57.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">particular to being a maintainer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:00.100" data-start="00:29:00.100" data-video="mainVideo-emms">These are all part of a project's lifecycle.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:03.390" data-start="00:29:03.390" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Let's review some of them.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:29:06.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:29:06.080]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:29:06.080" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The life and times of an Emms patch</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:29:06.080" data-start="00:29:06.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The life and times of an Emms patch:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:10.000" data-start="00:29:10.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A maintainer needs to be able to accept, critique,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:13.240" data-start="00:29:13.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and integrate patches from contributors and developers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:17.560" data-start="00:29:17.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This means, among other things, that the maintainer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:20.560" data-start="00:29:20.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">needs to keep on top of copyright issues.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:24.470" data-start="00:29:24.470" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Before being able to add Emms to GNU/ELPA,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:29.360" data-start="00:29:29.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">we had to make sure that the copyright situation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:31.880" data-start="00:29:31.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">was in order.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:33.850" data-start="00:29:33.850" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This long process required reaching out to people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:37.520" data-start="00:29:37.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and having them assign the copyright</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:39.960" data-start="00:29:39.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for their work to the FSF,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:42.510" data-start="00:29:42.510" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or even removing their code entirely</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:45.200" data-start="00:29:45.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">if they couldn't be reached.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:47.970" data-start="00:29:47.970" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The experience left me with the conviction</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:50.630" data-start="00:29:50.630" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that the easiest way to fix</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:52.400" data-start="00:29:52.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the copyright situation of your package</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:54.520" data-start="00:29:54.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is to ensure that it never gets broken in the first place.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:00.640" data-start="00:30:00.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Often a person will write in to the emms-help mailing list,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:04.440" data-start="00:30:04.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or perhaps raise an issue on IRC.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:08.030" data-start="00:30:08.030" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If it's a bug report or feature request, we'll discuss it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:11.680" data-start="00:30:11.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and when it's fixed, we'll ask the reporter</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:14.160" data-start="00:30:14.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to test the result and provide feedback.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.640" data-start="00:30:17.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If it's a patch, then we'll typically go one of three ways.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:22.040" data-start="00:30:22.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A trivial patch, such as fixing a typo</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:24.800" data-start="00:30:24.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or corrections on a single line of code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:27.280" data-start="00:30:27.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">will simply be applied by one of the developers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:32.040" data-start="00:30:32.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A non-trivial, but one-time patch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:34.520" data-start="00:30:34.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">will have to be cleared from a copyright perspective.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:37.990" data-start="00:30:37.990" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This means assigning copyright for the changes to the FSF.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:42.420" data-start="00:30:42.420" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Once that's cleared, then the patch will be applied.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:46.320" data-start="00:30:46.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Finally, if it's a non-trivial patch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:49.880" data-start="00:30:49.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which looks like it would be the start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:52.080" data-start="00:30:52.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">of a long-term development work (my favorite),</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:56.010" data-start="00:30:56.010" data-video="mainVideo-emms">then after copyright is cleared,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:57.880" data-start="00:30:57.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">that person will be offered to be added</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:00.800" data-start="00:31:00.800" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to the members with Git repo access on Savannah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:05.020" data-start="00:31:05.020" data-video="mainVideo-emms">From there, we usually use a dedicated branch</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:08.200" data-start="00:31:08.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to do all the playing around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:09.640" data-start="00:31:09.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">before merging it with the main Git repo.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:13.630" data-start="00:31:13.630" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If you have ever sent a patch, feature request,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:16.880" data-start="00:31:16.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">or bug report into Emms (small or large), we thank you.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:31:24.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:31:24.080]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:31:24.080" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Let It Go: The release process</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:31:24.080" data-start="00:31:24.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Let It Go, The Release Process:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:27.790" data-start="00:31:27.790" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The maintainer is responsible for the release process.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:31.610" data-start="00:31:31.610" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I found that a consistent schedule works well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:35.130" data-start="00:31:35.130" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which is not to say that we have to release on schedule,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:39.380" data-start="00:31:39.380" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but that aiming for a consistent release schedule</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:42.760" data-start="00:31:42.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">provides structure and a goal.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:46.050" data-start="00:31:46.050" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The main Git branch in the repository is stable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:50.160" data-start="00:31:50.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and more often than not of release quality.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:53.240" data-start="00:31:53.240" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Releases are done about every three months.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:56.650" data-start="00:31:56.650" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And with such a stable main branch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:59.000" data-start="00:31:59.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the process of releasing often involves little more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:02.320" data-start="00:32:02.320" data-video="mainVideo-emms">than writing a NEWS entry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:05.060" data-start="00:32:05.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">As a consequence, new and wonderful features</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:08.440" data-start="00:32:08.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which aren't quite ready for prime time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:11.440" data-start="00:32:11.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">when a release comes around,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:13.500" data-start="00:32:13.500" data-video="mainVideo-emms">will remain safely in their branch on the Git repo</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:18.200" data-start="00:32:18.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">until after the ELPA release.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:32:23.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:32:23.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:32:23.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It Is Not In Our Stars, But In Ourselves: Future directions</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:32:23.400" data-start="00:32:23.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It Is Not In Our Stars, But In Ourselves; Future Directions:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:29.630" data-start="00:32:29.630" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One aspect of Emms that needs to improve is ease of setup.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:34.900" data-start="00:32:34.900" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now that might surprise you, since at the time of writing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:37.720" data-start="00:32:37.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">it's already pretty easy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:40.070" data-start="00:32:40.070" data-video="mainVideo-emms">But my ideal is that the user would need to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:43.880" data-start="00:32:43.880" data-video="mainVideo-emms">nothing at all after installation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:46.840" data-start="00:32:46.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And with that, as a goal in mind,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:49.360" data-start="00:32:49.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">there is more work to be done.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:52.750" data-start="00:32:52.750" data-video="mainVideo-emms">We are working on a player discovery feature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:55.500" data-start="00:32:55.500" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The idea is simple.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:57.040" data-start="00:32:57.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The code looks for binaries of popular media players</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:00.080" data-start="00:33:00.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on the user's machine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:01.640" data-start="00:33:01.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and for each one found, it asks the user</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:04.520" data-start="00:33:04.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">if they want the associated Emms player backend</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:07.520" data-start="00:33:07.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to be configured.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:09.810" data-start="00:33:09.810" data-video="mainVideo-emms">In effect, this code is already working,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:12.590" data-start="00:33:12.590" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but currently an undocumented, unofficial feature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:16.290" data-start="00:33:16.290" data-video="mainVideo-emms">You can try it for yourself with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:17.720" data-start="00:33:17.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-setup-discover-players</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:21.080" data-start="00:33:21.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">So what's the holdup?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:22.970" data-start="00:33:22.970" data-video="mainVideo-emms"><code>emms-setup-discover-players</code> currently configures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:26.040" data-start="00:33:26.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">the <code>emms-player-list</code> variable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:27.840" data-start="00:33:27.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but doesn't write it to disk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:29.900" data-start="00:33:29.900" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And that means that the configuration</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:31.680" data-start="00:33:31.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">isn't preserved between Emacs sessions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:35.040" data-start="00:33:35.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The question then becomes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:36.900" data-start="00:33:36.900" data-video="mainVideo-emms">what is the best way to preserve this setting?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:40.310" data-start="00:33:40.310" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I personally don't like anything</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:42.600" data-start="00:33:42.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to edit my .emacs except me,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:46.200" data-start="00:33:46.200" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and I wouldn't do that to anyone else.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:49.280" data-start="00:33:49.280" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Now we already write state to the .emacs.d/emms/ directory,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:55.960" data-start="00:33:55.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">but that would require care not to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:58.360" data-start="00:33:58.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">clobber a user's existing setup.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:01.910" data-start="00:34:01.910" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Having the user set up their system in one place,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:04.720" data-start="00:34:04.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">such as a .emacs or a .emmsrc,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:08.840" data-start="00:34:08.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">while saving state to a different place</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:11.420" data-start="00:34:11.420" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is asking for confusion.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:14.210" data-start="00:34:14.210" data-video="mainVideo-emms">This is a good example which I bring up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:16.720" data-start="00:34:16.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">of where a maintainer needs to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:18.400" data-start="00:34:18.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">solicit opinions from developers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:21.309" data-start="00:34:21.309" data-video="mainVideo-emms">both the Emacs developers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:23.900" data-start="00:34:23.900" data-video="mainVideo-emms">asking them where packages should save state,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:28.170" data-start="00:34:28.170" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and the Emms developers, and also users.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:33.170" data-start="00:34:33.170" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Then, the maintainer needs to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:35.440" data-start="00:34:35.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">carefully choose a path forward.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:38.020" data-start="00:34:38.020" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It is typical of the kind of issue you have to have in mind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:41.560" data-start="00:34:41.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">when you're maintaining a package.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:34:44.849" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:34:44.849]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:34:44.849" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Development policies: Interface language</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:34:44.849" data-start="00:34:44.849" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Development Policies: Interface Language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:49.160" data-start="00:34:49.160" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A maintainer of an interactive program such as Emms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:52.360" data-start="00:34:52.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">needs to think about user interaction.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:55.360" data-start="00:34:55.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Emms doesn't use key bindings which are familiar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:58.400" data-start="00:34:58.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to people who are used to GUI media players,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:02.720" data-start="00:35:02.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and that can, and has, caused friction.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:06.560" data-start="00:35:06.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Some new users are confused when they press the spacebar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:09.960" data-start="00:35:09.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on an entry in the Emms browser,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:12.530" data-start="00:35:12.530" data-video="mainVideo-emms">only to find that nothing starts playing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:15.460" data-start="00:35:15.460" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Indeed, all that does is to expand the browser tree</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:18.680" data-start="00:35:18.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">at that point.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:20.470" data-start="00:35:20.470" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Then they might press RET on the same entry,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:23.000" data-start="00:35:23.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and be further frustrated at the continuing silence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:28.260" data-start="00:35:28.260" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Since what return does is just to add that entry at point</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:33.400" data-start="00:35:33.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">to the current playlist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:36.170" data-start="00:35:36.170" data-video="mainVideo-emms">The discussion then arises</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:37.760" data-start="00:35:37.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">about how Emms should handle that situation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:41.820" data-start="00:35:41.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">On one hand, we want to make it as easy as possible</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:45.560" data-start="00:35:45.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">for new users to learn Emms,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:48.820" data-start="00:35:48.820" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and adopt a do-what-I-mean interface approach.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:52.760" data-start="00:35:52.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">On the other hand, this is an Emacs project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:56.750" data-start="00:35:56.750" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It isn't a stand-alone GUI media player,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:59.440" data-start="00:35:59.440" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and should integrate into Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:01.400" data-start="00:36:01.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and serve Emacs users first and foremost.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:36:05.980" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:36:05.980]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:36:05.980" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Development policies: Freedom</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:36:05.980" data-start="00:36:05.980" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Development policies: Freedom.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:10.290" data-start="00:36:10.290" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Another maintainer job is to think of Emms' posture</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:15.000" data-start="00:36:15.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">in regards to software freedom.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:17.380" data-start="00:36:17.380" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Here are a few examples.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:19.730" data-start="00:36:19.730" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Back with MP3 was still a patent encumbered format,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:23.760" data-start="00:36:23.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">we pushed hard for Vorbis everywhere</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:26.081" data-start="00:36:26.081" data-video="mainVideo-emms">along with the PlayOgg campaign.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:29.640" data-start="00:36:29.640" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A then popular music streaming service,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:32.700" data-start="00:36:32.700" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which will remain unnamed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:34.930" data-start="00:36:34.930" data-video="mainVideo-emms">changed their stance towards third-party applications,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:38.620" data-start="00:36:38.620" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and required individual API keys which could not be shared.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:43.130" data-start="00:36:43.130" data-video="mainVideo-emms">We stood firm, said "no",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:45.400" data-start="00:36:45.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and removed support for that service.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:48.670" data-start="00:36:48.670" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A recent suggestion to add support for YouTube</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:51.360" data-start="00:36:51.360" data-video="mainVideo-emms">was also nixed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:53.890" data-start="00:36:53.890" data-video="mainVideo-emms">because the particular backend</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:55.680" data-start="00:36:55.680" data-video="mainVideo-emms">was found to download and run proprietary javascript</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:58.960" data-start="00:36:58.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">on the user's machine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:01.850" data-start="00:37:01.850" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Saying no to potentially useful or wanted features</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:05.400" data-start="00:37:05.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">because it involves non-free software</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:07.920" data-start="00:37:07.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is often an unpopular decision and can alienate people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:13.490" data-start="00:37:13.490" data-video="mainVideo-emms">A maintainer needs to think carefully</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:15.560" data-start="00:37:15.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">about each of these decisions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:17.400" data-start="00:37:17.400" data-video="mainVideo-emms">as they are rarely straightforward and one-sided.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:21.920" data-start="00:37:21.920" data-video="mainVideo-emms">And as you see above, they also change over time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:25.840" data-start="00:37:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and need to be re-evaluated.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:30.300" data-start="00:37:30.300" data-video="mainVideo-emms">One of the most useful things a maintainer can do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:33.000" data-start="00:37:33.000" data-video="mainVideo-emms">is to coordinate the development effort</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:35.520" data-start="00:37:35.520" data-video="mainVideo-emms">and help new people join the project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:39.230" data-start="00:37:39.230" data-video="mainVideo-emms">In light of that, if you want to work on a project</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:41.840" data-start="00:37:41.840" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which has a bit of everything,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:44.060" data-start="00:37:44.060" data-video="mainVideo-emms">you could do worse than hacking on Emms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:47.810" data-start="00:37:47.810" data-video="mainVideo-emms">There is inter-process communication,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:49.720" data-start="00:37:49.720" data-video="mainVideo-emms">displaying graphics, parsing binary files,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:52.480" data-start="00:37:52.480" data-video="mainVideo-emms">caching, asynchronous processes, user interface design.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:56.530" data-start="00:37:56.530" data-video="mainVideo-emms">We also are a project that insists on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:59.600" data-start="00:37:59.600" data-video="mainVideo-emms">keeping a well-written and up-to-date manual.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:02.960" data-start="00:38:02.960" data-video="mainVideo-emms">If you can write English or hack Emacs Lisp at all,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:06.760" data-start="00:38:06.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">chances are that there is something you can do for Emms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:09.940" data-start="00:38:09.940" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Just saying.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emms" class="subtitle" data-start="00:38:12.370" data-video="mainVideo-emms">[00:38:12.370]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:38:12.370" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Acknowledgements</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:38:12.370" data-start="00:38:12.370" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Acknowledgements:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:14.190" data-start="00:38:14.190" data-video="mainVideo-emms">I'd like to express my deep gratitude for all of the people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:18.080" data-start="00:38:18.080" data-video="mainVideo-emms">who have hacked on Emms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:19.560" data-start="00:38:19.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">during my time as a maintainer and before it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:23.170" data-start="00:38:23.170" data-video="mainVideo-emms">It is often the case that I'm just the person</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:25.760" data-start="00:38:25.760" data-video="mainVideo-emms">holding the rudder and steering the ship,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:28.560" data-start="00:38:28.560" data-video="mainVideo-emms">with all of these developers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:30.040" data-start="00:38:30.040" data-video="mainVideo-emms">rowing furiously to provide the power</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:33.180" data-start="00:38:33.180" data-video="mainVideo-emms">which actually moves the ship forward.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:36.370" data-start="00:38:36.370" data-video="mainVideo-emms">Thank you to all.</span></p>
<p>Captioner: yoni</p>
<p><a name="emms-qanda-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.140" data-start="00:00:06.140" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:07.580" data-start="00:00:07.580" data-video="qanda-emms">Hi, Yanny, how are you doing?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:10.460" data-start="00:00:10.460" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:10.960" data-start="00:00:10.960" data-video="qanda-emms">thank you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:13.980" data-start="00:00:13.980" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:17.440" data-start="00:00:17.440" data-video="qanda-emms">I first want to commend you on your ability</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:22.040" data-start="00:00:22.040" data-video="qanda-emms">to both do the how the user encounters the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:24.960" data-start="00:00:24.960" data-video="qanda-emms">MMS, how the developer might be interested</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:28.680" data-start="00:00:28.680" data-video="qanda-emms">about how it works, and I feel like you've</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.720" data-start="00:00:30.720" data-video="qanda-emms">done a wonderful job of talking to absolutely</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:31.800" data-start="00:00:31.800" data-video="qanda-emms">everyone in our audience,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:32.840" data-start="00:00:32.840" data-video="qanda-emms">whatever their skill level.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:34.120" data-start="00:00:34.120" data-video="qanda-emms">So thank you so much for this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:37.800" data-start="00:00:37.800" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:41.580" data-start="00:00:41.580" data-video="qanda-emms">you know, good for some,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:42.980" data-start="00:00:42.980" data-video="qanda-emms">but excellent for none.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:46.960" data-start="00:00:46.960" data-video="qanda-emms">But hopefully the result is that people can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:48.380" data-start="00:00:48.380" data-video="qanda-emms">get something out of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:51.820" data-start="00:00:51.820" data-video="qanda-emms">I think it's very important to make sure that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:55.680" data-start="00:00:55.680" data-video="qanda-emms">everyone feels that they have access to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:57.239" data-start="00:00:57.239" data-video="qanda-emms">Emacs, they have access to EMMS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:00.640" data-start="00:01:00.640" data-video="qanda-emms">that they can do this in whatever capacity</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:02.800" data-start="00:01:02.800" data-video="qanda-emms">they want. It's for everyone.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.440" data-start="00:01:05.440" data-video="qanda-emms">I really believe that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.440" data-start="00:01:09.440" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:10.680" data-start="00:01:10.680" data-video="qanda-emms">a talk that is kind of a jack-of-all-trades,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:14.440" data-start="00:01:14.440" data-video="qanda-emms">but frankly you've done a wonderful job of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:16.560" data-start="00:01:16.560" data-video="qanda-emms">making it interesting for everyone,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:19.540" data-start="00:01:19.540" data-video="qanda-emms">because also I think the parts worked really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:21.820" data-start="00:01:21.820" data-video="qanda-emms">well, and people always had something to look</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:24.240" data-start="00:01:24.240" data-video="qanda-emms">forward in terms of their expertise of what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.360" data-start="00:01:25.360" data-video="qanda-emms">particularly spoke to them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:27.560" data-start="00:01:27.560" data-video="qanda-emms">So thank you again. What I'm going to do,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:29.440" data-start="00:01:29.440" data-video="qanda-emms">we have about 14 minutes of Q&A,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:30.760" data-start="00:01:30.760" data-video="qanda-emms">So I'll invite people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:33.400" data-start="00:01:33.400" data-video="qanda-emms">as I usually do, to add their questions in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:35.320" data-start="00:01:35.320" data-video="qanda-emms">the other pad that you can find on the talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:38.560" data-start="00:01:38.560" data-video="qanda-emms">or on IRC. You can also join us in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:40.200" data-start="00:01:40.200" data-video="qanda-emms">discussion. I will make sure this time to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.180" data-start="00:01:42.180" data-video="qanda-emms">ping Sasha to open the Q&A.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:44.680" data-start="00:01:44.680" data-video="qanda-emms">Can you open, I-V-E-M-M-S.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.700" data-start="00:01:48.700" data-video="qanda-emms">All right, and in the meantime,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.940" data-start="00:01:50.940" data-video="qanda-emms">whilst we wait for people to join us in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:52.360" data-start="00:01:52.360" data-video="qanda-emms">room, I will start reading some of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.960" data-start="00:01:53.960" data-video="qanda-emms">questions off the pad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:57.180" data-start="00:01:57.180" data-video="qanda-emms">So we had the first question about the music</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:58.780" data-start="00:01:58.780" data-video="qanda-emms">that we played during the launch break,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:01.320" data-start="00:02:01.320" data-video="qanda-emms">and It's 1 of our dear friends,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:05.200" data-start="00:02:05.200" data-video="qanda-emms">Shoshin Ganshangroh, a free album,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.360" data-start="00:02:09.360" data-video="qanda-emms">Basement Dazed. I've put the link in the pad</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.520" data-start="00:02:12.520" data-video="qanda-emms">and we've been using Shoshin's music for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:13.420" data-start="00:02:13.420" data-video="qanda-emms">last 3 years, I think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.060" data-start="00:02:15.060" data-video="qanda-emms">and everyone, people are so excited.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:17.220" data-start="00:02:17.220" data-video="qanda-emms">Some people say, why is it so noisy in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:18.480" data-start="00:02:18.480" data-video="qanda-emms">background? But it's just because there's 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:20.940" data-start="00:02:20.940" data-video="qanda-emms">part of the different tracks that sounds like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.280" data-start="00:02:24.280" data-video="qanda-emms">static and it always gets people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:25.900" data-start="00:02:25.900" data-video="qanda-emms">We should probably do something about this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:27.520" data-start="00:02:27.520" data-video="qanda-emms">but frankly it makes me laugh every time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:30.460" data-start="00:02:30.460" data-video="qanda-emms">Starting with the first actual question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:32.640" data-start="00:02:32.640" data-video="qanda-emms">well actually it's a bit of a meme question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:34.340" data-start="00:02:34.340" data-video="qanda-emms">for the next Emacs Con,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:37.280" data-start="00:02:37.280" data-video="qanda-emms">could we have an eMMS playlist to follow the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:37.760" data-start="00:02:37.760" data-video="qanda-emms">talks along?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:43.940" data-start="00:02:43.940" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:46.560" data-start="00:02:46.560" data-video="qanda-emms">guess I'm wondering what they mean exactly by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.960" data-start="00:02:48.960" data-video="qanda-emms">that. Is that a shareable playlist that we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:54.560" data-start="00:02:54.560" data-video="qanda-emms">can pass along and just have people go to a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:56.320" data-start="00:02:56.320" data-video="qanda-emms">URL and just be able to play that?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:58.620" data-start="00:02:58.620" data-video="qanda-emms">I think that's an excellent idea.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.660" data-start="00:03:00.660" data-video="qanda-emms">It should be a relatively low bandwidth</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:01.780" data-start="00:03:01.780" data-video="qanda-emms">process.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.580" data-start="00:03:06.580" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:10.840" data-start="00:03:10.840" data-video="qanda-emms">right of our alley. I'm thinking about the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:15.480" data-start="00:03:15.480" data-video="qanda-emms">ICS file that we produce for all the events</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:17.020" data-start="00:03:17.020" data-video="qanda-emms">that are related to Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:18.820" data-start="00:03:18.820" data-video="qanda-emms">You know the workshop that happened in Paris</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.360" data-start="00:03:22.360" data-video="qanda-emms">or in New York, LA? Sasha compiles a list of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:23.560" data-start="00:03:23.560" data-video="qanda-emms">all the events and when they happen,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.360" data-start="00:03:25.360" data-video="qanda-emms">and then we provide this to everyone.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:27.040" data-start="00:03:27.040" data-video="qanda-emms">And we can do very much the same with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:29.380" data-start="00:03:29.380" data-video="qanda-emms">EmacsConf. You could have a playlist for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:31.980" data-start="00:03:31.980" data-video="qanda-emms">EmacsConf 2023, where you get all the talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:34.760" data-start="00:03:34.760" data-video="qanda-emms">and perhaps also the Q&A sessions so that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:36.780" data-start="00:03:36.780" data-video="qanda-emms">can relieve the 16 hours of content that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:37.800" data-start="00:03:37.800" data-video="qanda-emms">we're producing. That'd be great,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:39.240" data-start="00:03:39.240" data-video="qanda-emms">that's a great idea I think.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:43.660" data-start="00:03:43.660" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:48.060" data-start="00:03:48.060" data-video="qanda-emms">in the Emacs playlist structure that things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:49.640" data-start="00:03:49.640" data-video="qanda-emms">are missing in the playlist structure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.040" data-start="00:03:53.040" data-video="qanda-emms">then it would be a great impetus to implement</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:55.080" data-start="00:03:55.080" data-video="qanda-emms">those and extend the playlist structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:57.380" data-start="00:03:57.380" data-video="qanda-emms">Because after all, it's Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.360" data-start="00:04:01.360" data-video="qanda-emms">it really is data and functions all mixed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.160" data-start="00:04:03.160" data-video="qanda-emms">together, so we can do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:06.180" data-start="00:04:06.180" data-video="qanda-emms">It would be very interesting to dive into it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:07.000" data-start="00:04:07.000" data-video="qanda-emms">and see what's missing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:10.020" data-start="00:04:10.020" data-video="qanda-emms">That would be even more informative than what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:10.680" data-start="00:04:10.680" data-video="qanda-emms">it can do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:14.900" data-start="00:04:14.900" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:17.000" data-start="00:04:17.000" data-video="qanda-emms">question. I like to use music and audiobooks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:18.279" data-start="00:04:18.279" data-video="qanda-emms">in very different ways.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:21.440" data-start="00:04:21.440" data-video="qanda-emms">With music, I like shuffling by artists and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:23.300" data-start="00:04:23.300" data-video="qanda-emms">with audiobooks, I want to read sequentially</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.260" data-start="00:04:27.260" data-video="qanda-emms">and pick the same playlist over a couple of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:29.240" data-start="00:04:29.240" data-video="qanda-emms">days or weeks. Do you have any tips for using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:30.860" data-start="00:04:30.860" data-video="qanda-emms">these 2 opposing media's workflow?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:38.520" data-start="00:04:38.520" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:43.920" data-start="00:04:43.920" data-video="qanda-emms">have very long endurance races that I watch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:47.160" data-start="00:04:47.160" data-video="qanda-emms">which I do all my media consumption is done</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:50.720" data-start="00:04:50.720" data-video="qanda-emms">via EMMS. I also listened to music.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:54.020" data-start="00:04:54.020" data-video="qanda-emms">And so there's also a middle in between.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:57.980" data-start="00:04:57.980" data-video="qanda-emms">There's 1 end in which you have popular</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:01.560" data-start="00:05:01.560" data-video="qanda-emms">music. These are standalone songs that are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:04.860" data-start="00:05:04.860" data-video="qanda-emms">typically 3 to 4 minute long and they are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:07.900" data-start="00:05:07.900" data-video="qanda-emms">best consumed in a random you know order</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:09.780" data-start="00:05:09.780" data-video="qanda-emms">because they are designed around,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:12.080" data-start="00:05:12.080" data-video="qanda-emms">you know, a commercial radio distribution.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:15.140" data-start="00:05:15.140" data-video="qanda-emms">I guess I'm dating myself by saying radio,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:17.120" data-start="00:05:17.120" data-video="qanda-emms">but you know all the that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:20.940" data-start="00:05:20.940" data-video="qanda-emms">In the middle there are longer works like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:26.100" data-start="00:05:26.100" data-video="qanda-emms">musicals and classical where these are units</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:30.200" data-start="00:05:30.200" data-video="qanda-emms">where they might be very long but you would</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.160" data-start="00:05:33.160" data-video="qanda-emms">have several tracks that you do want to have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:35.600" data-start="00:05:35.600" data-video="qanda-emms">1 after the other, and you want to be able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:38.360" data-start="00:05:38.360" data-video="qanda-emms">stop and go to the next track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:40.760" data-start="00:05:40.760" data-video="qanda-emms">And then at the very, very other end,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:44.020" data-start="00:05:44.020" data-video="qanda-emms">you have extremely long format,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:46.360" data-start="00:05:46.360" data-video="qanda-emms">which is included in a single file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:47.920" data-start="00:05:47.920" data-video="qanda-emms">such as an audio book,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:51.400" data-start="00:05:51.400" data-video="qanda-emms">a movie, a tutorial that you're watching,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.100" data-start="00:05:54.100" data-video="qanda-emms">or in my case, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.580" data-start="00:05:56.580" data-video="qanda-emms">a 24 hour, the 24 hours of Le Mans,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:58.040" data-start="00:05:58.040" data-video="qanda-emms">just the 24 hour race,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:01.120" data-start="00:06:01.120" data-video="qanda-emms">which, you know, that's 1 heck of a file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:07.380" data-start="00:06:07.380" data-video="qanda-emms">So that is 1 of the reasons eMMS has a number</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:10.160" data-start="00:06:10.160" data-video="qanda-emms">of elements such as the meta playlist mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:11.260" data-start="00:06:11.260" data-video="qanda-emms">and multiple playlists.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.160" data-start="00:06:16.160" data-video="qanda-emms">So I would say that they would open a number</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:19.540" data-start="00:06:19.540" data-video="qanda-emms">of playlists in eMMS, generate a number of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:26.040" data-start="00:06:26.040" data-video="qanda-emms">playlists that have each class of media.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:28.940" data-start="00:06:28.940" data-video="qanda-emms">So the shorter form songs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:33.580" data-start="00:06:33.580" data-video="qanda-emms">the more pop songs you have in 1 playlist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.920" data-start="00:06:35.920" data-video="qanda-emms">where you can sort, shuffle it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:37.800" data-start="00:06:37.800" data-video="qanda-emms">you know, save it, do whatever you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:41.980" data-start="00:06:41.980" data-video="qanda-emms">Then a separate playlist for the long form</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:44.340" data-start="00:06:44.340" data-video="qanda-emms">stuff. Sometimes that playlist will have even</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.960" data-start="00:06:48.960" data-video="qanda-emms">only 1 file in it if it's long enough,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:52.120" data-start="00:06:52.120" data-video="qanda-emms">then have a key combination which takes you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:55.280" data-start="00:06:55.280" data-video="qanda-emms">directly to 1 playlist or the other,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:57.340" data-start="00:06:57.340" data-video="qanda-emms">and within the long-form playlist,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:01.980" data-start="00:07:01.980" data-video="qanda-emms">looking at the bookmarking function of EMMS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:06.560" data-start="00:07:06.560" data-video="qanda-emms">which is designed around being able to save a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:10.080" data-start="00:07:10.080" data-video="qanda-emms">particular stopping point or multiple</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:12.240" data-start="00:07:12.240" data-video="qanda-emms">stopping points, bookmarks in the audio,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:15.300" data-start="00:07:15.300" data-video="qanda-emms">and being able to jump back into that audio.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:18.600" data-start="00:07:18.600" data-video="qanda-emms">The point to remember about the bookmarking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:23.720" data-start="00:07:23.720" data-video="qanda-emms">feature is that sometimes it really depends</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:25.960" data-start="00:07:25.960" data-video="qanda-emms">on you have to have the right back end.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:28.900" data-start="00:07:28.900" data-video="qanda-emms">Not all back ends with replaying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:33.120" data-start="00:07:33.120" data-video="qanda-emms">not all types of media work well with a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:36.200" data-start="00:07:36.200" data-video="qanda-emms">bookmarking function, and bug reports</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.960" data-start="00:07:38.960" data-video="qanda-emms">welcome. But also there are other backends</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.820" data-start="00:07:44.820" data-video="qanda-emms">such as MPV where you can configure it that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:49.860" data-start="00:07:49.860" data-video="qanda-emms">when you quit playing the song or the media</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.080" data-start="00:07:55.080" data-video="qanda-emms">with, you know, cue internally.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:58.140" data-start="00:07:58.140" data-video="qanda-emms">So sometimes the back end has to continue</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:04.400" data-start="00:08:04.400" data-video="qanda-emms">playing that song. That's what I do in order</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:07.560" data-start="00:08:07.560" data-video="qanda-emms">to, on 1 hand, switch over to a...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:09.620" data-start="00:08:09.620" data-video="qanda-emms">I want to hear... I'm coding,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:10.800" data-start="00:08:10.800" data-video="qanda-emms">I want to hear some music,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.860" data-start="00:08:12.860" data-video="qanda-emms">I go to my playlist of short songs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:16.280" data-start="00:08:16.280" data-video="qanda-emms">then I'm sitting back and I want to watch a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:20.340" data-start="00:08:20.340" data-video="qanda-emms">long form something from where I left off and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.420" data-start="00:08:22.420" data-video="qanda-emms">there I go to the other playlist and use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:26.140" data-start="00:08:26.140" data-video="qanda-emms">bookmarks or the features of the back end</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:26.780" data-start="00:08:26.780" data-video="qanda-emms">that I'm using.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:31.200" data-start="00:08:31.200" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:34.440" data-start="00:08:34.440" data-video="qanda-emms">We have about 7 minutes and we have more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.280" data-start="00:08:35.280" data-video="qanda-emms">questions, so that's great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:37.440" data-start="00:08:37.440" data-video="qanda-emms">Moving on to the next 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:40.080" data-start="00:08:40.080" data-video="qanda-emms">Is there a way to search a music selection by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:42.080" data-start="00:08:42.080" data-video="qanda-emms">lyrics? Assuming those lyrics are in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:43.580" data-start="00:08:43.580" data-video="qanda-emms">metadata or are available elsewhere,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.300" data-start="00:08:46.300" data-video="qanda-emms">it would be neat to call songs up from the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:48.660" data-start="00:08:48.660" data-video="qanda-emms">lyrics to the song. Perhaps is this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.860" data-start="00:08:50.860" data-video="qanda-emms">implemented so that you can all aliases,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:54.560" data-start="00:08:54.560" data-video="qanda-emms">so they can use aliases for the song that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.640" data-start="00:08:56.640" data-video="qanda-emms">like, defining those aliases or shortcuts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:58.200" data-start="00:08:58.200" data-video="qanda-emms">either inside or outside eMMS?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:59.760" data-start="00:08:59.760" data-video="qanda-emms">Okay, so I think you've got 2 questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:01.500" data-start="00:09:01.500" data-video="qanda-emms">First about the lyrics and then the aliases.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:08.360" data-start="00:09:08.360" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:10.880" data-start="00:09:10.880" data-video="qanda-emms">right now. There's a sense in which it is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:14.820" data-start="00:09:14.820" data-video="qanda-emms">but not really. What actually needs to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:18.840" data-start="00:09:18.840" data-video="qanda-emms">happen? The problem is that the caching</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:21.780" data-start="00:09:21.780" data-video="qanda-emms">system is extremely naive.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:24.800" data-start="00:09:24.800" data-video="qanda-emms">It's just really a hash that's written to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:30.560" data-start="00:09:30.560" data-video="qanda-emms">disk. And maybe now with SQLite integration</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:35.200" data-start="00:09:35.200" data-video="qanda-emms">or other or just the fact that computers have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:39.220" data-start="00:09:39.220" data-video="qanda-emms">a lot more speed and space than they used to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:43.340" data-start="00:09:43.340" data-video="qanda-emms">have, we need to expand the cache to be a lot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.020" data-start="00:09:47.020" data-video="qanda-emms">more greedy and a lot more flexible so that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:52.580" data-start="00:09:52.580" data-video="qanda-emms">we can store things such as lyrics in as part</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:56.000" data-start="00:09:56.000" data-video="qanda-emms">of the metadata. There's no reason not to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:02.220" data-start="00:10:02.220" data-video="qanda-emms">that. Unless your collection would have to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:06.560" data-start="00:10:06.560" data-video="qanda-emms">truly enormous in order to slow things down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:09.860" data-start="00:10:09.860" data-video="qanda-emms">We wouldn't even need to compress the lyrics</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:11.320" data-start="00:10:11.320" data-video="qanda-emms">in order to store them like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:15.920" data-start="00:10:15.920" data-video="qanda-emms">But that is a goal. So our rewrite of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.840" data-start="00:10:17.840" data-video="qanda-emms">cache is currently in progress,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:21.680" data-start="00:10:21.680" data-video="qanda-emms">and the goal is to have a system where you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:24.920" data-start="00:10:24.920" data-video="qanda-emms">can put any related information,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:30.060" data-start="00:10:30.060" data-video="qanda-emms">including lyrics, and map that to a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:31.400" data-start="00:10:31.400" data-video="qanda-emms">particular piece of the media,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:36.900" data-start="00:10:36.900" data-video="qanda-emms">be it a URL or a... So you could have in a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:40.080" data-start="00:10:40.080" data-video="qanda-emms">sense, you could have a URL to a lecture and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:44.440" data-start="00:10:44.440" data-video="qanda-emms">the metadata associated would be some text,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:47.600" data-start="00:10:47.600" data-video="qanda-emms">some notes or something else like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:51.140" data-start="00:10:51.140" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:53.040" data-start="00:10:53.040" data-video="qanda-emms">I'm not sure how it answers the question</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:54.560" data-start="00:10:54.560" data-video="qanda-emms">about the aliases. I mean you can still</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:56.380" data-start="00:10:56.380" data-video="qanda-emms">filter what you've mentioned about the cache.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:59.240" data-start="00:10:59.240" data-video="qanda-emms">I think it's... Do we consider the aliases to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:01.120" data-start="00:11:01.120" data-video="qanda-emms">be anything within the metadata?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.040" data-start="00:11:08.040" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.380" data-start="00:11:12.380" data-video="qanda-emms">question. I don't have a great answer for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.980" data-start="00:11:12.980" data-video="qanda-emms">that right now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.280" data-start="00:11:16.280" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:17.440" data-start="00:11:17.440" data-video="qanda-emms">and we can return to it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:19.690" data-start="00:11:19.690" data-video="qanda-emms">You can return to it at a later stage.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:21.880" data-start="00:11:21.880" data-video="qanda-emms">Yeah. All right, moving on to the next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:22.800" data-start="00:11:22.800" data-video="qanda-emms">question, then. I'll just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:25.180" data-start="00:11:25.180" data-video="qanda-emms">we'll put a pin on this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:26.420" data-start="00:11:26.420" data-video="qanda-emms">All right, next question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:29.020" data-start="00:11:29.020" data-video="qanda-emms">Are there plans for managing metadata with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:30.040" data-start="00:11:30.040" data-video="qanda-emms">online resource backends,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:32.020" data-start="00:11:32.020" data-video="qanda-emms">i.e. Discogs or music brains?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:34.360" data-start="00:11:34.360" data-video="qanda-emms">What about something like Beats and Emacs or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:34.920" data-start="00:11:34.920" data-video="qanda-emms">part of the EMMS?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:40.520" data-start="00:11:40.520" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:42.140" data-start="00:11:42.140" data-video="qanda-emms">mailing list right now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:47.340" data-start="00:11:47.340" data-video="qanda-emms">We don't want to replicate what Beats does</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.680" data-start="00:11:49.680" data-video="qanda-emms">very, very well in eMMS.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:53.860" data-start="00:11:53.860" data-video="qanda-emms">We don't want a clunky interface with Beats.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:57.440" data-start="00:11:57.440" data-video="qanda-emms">We do want some kind of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.100" data-start="00:12:00.100" data-video="qanda-emms">and so it's hard to tell exactly where to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.160" data-start="00:12:03.160" data-video="qanda-emms">draw that line. So the big answer is yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:04.960" data-start="00:12:04.960" data-video="qanda-emms">absolutely, there is a plan to do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:09.760" data-start="00:12:09.760" data-video="qanda-emms">The details become complicated because for 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.900" data-start="00:12:15.900" data-video="qanda-emms">thing, the backend, the database that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:18.140" data-start="00:12:18.140" data-video="qanda-emms">MusicBrain uses, AcoustID,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:21.500" data-start="00:12:21.500" data-video="qanda-emms">I don't remember if AcoustID is the binary or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:25.680" data-start="00:12:25.680" data-video="qanda-emms">the database, but that's actually for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:27.500" data-start="00:12:27.500" data-video="qanda-emms">non-commercial use only.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:31.320" data-start="00:12:31.320" data-video="qanda-emms">So not only do you need to compile a piece of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.280" data-start="00:12:35.280" data-video="qanda-emms">software on your computer as a shim,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:37.540" data-start="00:12:37.540" data-video="qanda-emms">which is what you need to do in order to set</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:39.180" data-start="00:12:39.180" data-video="qanda-emms">up beats to do fingerprinting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:44.720" data-start="00:12:44.720" data-video="qanda-emms">But it also crosses this line between</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:47.660" data-start="00:12:47.660" data-video="qanda-emms">completely free software to completely free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:49.400" data-start="00:12:49.400" data-video="qanda-emms">software interfacing with a non-commercial</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.000" data-start="00:12:56.000" data-video="qanda-emms">only service. So a lot of the discussion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:58.660" data-start="00:12:58.660" data-video="qanda-emms">that's going on now is what is the contour?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:02.160" data-start="00:13:02.160" data-video="qanda-emms">Where would be where we would be effective</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:08.720" data-start="00:13:08.720" data-video="qanda-emms">for EMMS to do management and where not?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:11.600" data-start="00:13:11.600" data-video="qanda-emms">For 1 thing, I would love to be able to...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.980" data-start="00:13:13.980" data-video="qanda-emms">1 thing that we definitely would love to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:18.340" data-start="00:13:18.340" data-video="qanda-emms">able to do is when you hit E on a file and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:21.540" data-start="00:13:21.540" data-video="qanda-emms">you get all the metadata to be able to then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:23.000" data-start="00:13:23.000" data-video="qanda-emms">give a command to say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:25.320" data-start="00:13:25.320" data-video="qanda-emms">hey, play to music brains and see if you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:26.200" data-start="00:13:26.200" data-video="qanda-emms">improve that metadata.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:29.020" data-start="00:13:29.020" data-video="qanda-emms">Do you have better metadata,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:33.400" data-start="00:13:33.400" data-video="qanda-emms">more complete metadata to complete that?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:35.840" data-start="00:13:35.840" data-video="qanda-emms">That is definitely in the pipeline.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:40.900" data-start="00:13:40.900" data-video="qanda-emms">How best to do it, that's a discussion.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:45.460" data-start="00:13:45.460" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:46.960" data-start="00:13:46.960" data-video="qanda-emms">need to go to the next talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:52.960" data-start="00:13:52.960" data-video="qanda-emms">Okay, I'll risk it. 1 more question and a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:53.800" data-start="00:13:53.800" data-video="qanda-emms">short answer if you can.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:57.440" data-start="00:13:57.440" data-video="qanda-emms">Have the developers considered using Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:59.060" data-start="00:13:59.060" data-video="qanda-emms">customized functionality to persistently</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.720" data-start="00:14:01.720" data-video="qanda-emms">store settings when using eMMS setup discover</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:02.120" data-start="00:14:02.120" data-video="qanda-emms">players?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:08.000" data-start="00:14:08.000" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:11.840" data-start="00:14:11.840" data-video="qanda-emms">especially with the discover players.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:14.440" data-start="00:14:14.440" data-video="qanda-emms">How to do it exactly without annoying people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:17.840" data-start="00:14:17.840" data-video="qanda-emms">and clobbering their own settings,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:20.360" data-start="00:14:20.360" data-video="qanda-emms">we just need to be very careful about that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:23.040" data-start="00:14:23.040" data-video="qanda-emms">Yes, that's in the coming releases.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:26.520" data-start="00:14:26.520" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:27.900" data-start="00:14:27.900" data-video="qanda-emms">thank you so much for your time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:29.440" data-start="00:14:29.440" data-video="qanda-emms">Feel free to stay in the room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:30.920" data-start="00:14:30.920" data-video="qanda-emms">I see that some people have started joining</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:33.720" data-start="00:14:33.720" data-video="qanda-emms">on BBB. If you have more questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:36.780" data-start="00:14:36.780" data-video="qanda-emms">feel free to unmute yourself and ask them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:39.520" data-start="00:14:39.520" data-video="qanda-emms">live. Younid, I could ask you also to perhaps</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:41.600" data-start="00:14:41.600" data-video="qanda-emms">answer the question. I've put the link to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:43.980" data-start="00:14:43.980" data-video="qanda-emms">pad in the BBB chat, so if you look at the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:47.220" data-start="00:14:47.220" data-video="qanda-emms">Here, I think, we're not mirrored on BBB.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:49.080" data-start="00:14:49.080" data-video="qanda-emms">If you look at the left you should be able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:51.500" data-start="00:14:51.500" data-video="qanda-emms">see the chat and the questions and if you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:52.720" data-start="00:14:52.720" data-video="qanda-emms">could just answer the last question that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:55.440" data-start="00:14:55.440" data-video="qanda-emms">would be great. For us on the general track</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:57.980" data-start="00:14:57.980" data-video="qanda-emms">we will be moving to the next talk and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:59.700" data-start="00:14:59.700" data-video="qanda-emms">Yannick do you have any last thing to say in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:02.720" data-start="00:15:02.720" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:04.320" data-start="00:15:04.320" data-video="qanda-emms">conference and thank you to everyone who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:06.680" data-start="00:15:06.680" data-video="qanda-emms">helps with the EMMS.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:08.160" data-start="00:15:08.160" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.160" data-start="00:15:09.160" data-video="qanda-emms">well, thank you so much,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:10.940" data-start="00:15:10.940" data-video="qanda-emms">Yoni. We'll probably see you later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:17.720" data-start="00:15:17.720" data-video="qanda-emms">Bye-bye. Wonderful. And I think we are off</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:18.620" data-start="00:15:18.620" data-video="qanda-emms">air. Thank you so much,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:20.800" data-start="00:15:20.800" data-video="qanda-emms">Juni. I need to step out and go take care of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:23.260" data-start="00:15:23.260" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:24.080" data-start="00:15:24.080" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:25.520" data-start="00:15:25.520" data-video="qanda-emms">And just to, I forgot to mention,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:27.160" data-start="00:15:27.160" data-video="qanda-emms">but you can still talk here and everything is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:28.320" data-start="00:15:28.320" data-video="qanda-emms">still being recorded. So,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:28.880" data-start="00:15:28.880" data-video="qanda-emms">I'll see you later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.320" data-start="00:15:32.320" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:35.600" data-start="00:15:35.600" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:40.600" data-start="00:15:40.600" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:42.900" data-start="00:15:42.900" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:43.080" data-start="00:15:43.080" data-video="qanda-emms">conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:12.600" data-start="00:16:12.600" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:18.120" data-start="00:16:18.120" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:19.840" data-start="00:16:19.840" data-video="qanda-emms">and thank you. My name's Grant.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:23.740" data-start="00:16:23.740" data-video="qanda-emms">I've, you helped me contribute to EMMS maybe</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:26.820" data-start="00:16:26.820" data-video="qanda-emms">2 or 3 years ago. I was trying to do the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:28.480" data-start="00:16:28.480" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:29.340" data-start="00:16:29.340" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:32.148" data-start="00:16:32.148" data-video="qanda-emms">So I just wanted to say thank you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:35.400" data-start="00:16:35.400" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:38.560" data-start="00:16:38.560" data-video="qanda-emms">that entire process. I know that 1 of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:40.380" data-start="00:16:40.380" data-video="qanda-emms">things that happens is that people want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:43.940" data-start="00:16:43.940" data-video="qanda-emms">contribute, but it's not as slick as GitHub</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:46.080" data-start="00:16:46.080" data-video="qanda-emms">and stuff like that, especially with the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:53.400" data-start="00:16:53.400" data-video="qanda-emms">copper assignment. And objectively,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:56.920" data-start="00:16:56.920" data-video="qanda-emms">it's not that. It's just harder than what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:58.680" data-start="00:16:58.680" data-video="qanda-emms">they imagine it might be.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:01.500" data-start="00:17:01.500" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:03.340" data-start="00:17:03.340" data-video="qanda-emms">I think you're doing a wonderful job as a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:07.200" data-start="00:17:07.200" data-video="qanda-emms">maintainer. I still hang out on the list and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:09.380" data-start="00:17:09.380" data-video="qanda-emms">enjoy listening in on the discussions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:09.960" data-start="00:17:09.960" data-video="qanda-emms">So.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:14.240" data-start="00:17:14.240" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:16.700" data-start="00:17:16.700" data-video="qanda-emms">I think that's it. And I think that's it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:17.640" data-start="00:17:17.640" data-video="qanda-emms">And I think that's it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:23.339" data-start="00:17:23.339" data-video="qanda-emms">I appreciate it. And I'll leave you to all of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:27.781" data-start="00:17:27.781" data-video="qanda-emms">you to go on from being a product.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:28.088" data-start="00:17:28.088" data-video="qanda-emms">And that she valued to all of us long term</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:28.180" data-start="00:17:28.180" data-video="qanda-emms">being a project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:31.460" data-start="00:17:31.460" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:33.420" data-start="00:17:33.420" data-video="qanda-emms">being there long term,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:37.360" data-start="00:17:37.360" data-video="qanda-emms">people tend to find it easier trying to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:40.840" data-start="00:17:40.840" data-video="qanda-emms">continue contributing to the project if</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:42.360" data-start="00:17:42.360" data-video="qanda-emms">there's a consistency there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:43.520" data-start="00:17:43.520" data-video="qanda-emms">if there isn't a churn,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:47.720" data-start="00:17:47.720" data-video="qanda-emms">if there is a kind of a core group.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:52.440" data-start="00:17:52.440" data-video="qanda-emms">I guess it's like, you think it's constant.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:58.280" data-start="00:17:58.280" data-video="qanda-emms">Eliezer Etzke and RMS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.420" data-start="00:18:00.420" data-video="qanda-emms">whatever on the next mailing list,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:03.040" data-start="00:18:03.040" data-video="qanda-emms">You know, okay, there are certain people that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:05.600" data-start="00:18:05.600" data-video="qanda-emms">I think so. So thank you for that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:06.340" data-start="00:18:06.340" data-video="qanda-emms">That's very important.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:07.540" data-start="00:18:07.540" data-video="qanda-emms">That helps.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:12.560" data-start="00:18:12.560" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:14.180" data-start="00:18:14.180" data-video="qanda-emms">EMMS several years ago,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:16.500" data-start="00:18:16.500" data-video="qanda-emms">it's, it's improved a lot since then.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:19.540" data-start="00:18:19.540" data-video="qanda-emms">And I notice your focus on helping new users</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:22.540" data-start="00:18:22.540" data-video="qanda-emms">get started quickly. And I think the talk</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.840" data-start="00:18:23.840" data-video="qanda-emms">today will help with that too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:24.160" data-start="00:18:24.160" data-video="qanda-emms">So</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:32.380" data-start="00:18:32.380" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:33.860" data-start="00:18:33.860" data-video="qanda-emms">the, especially the TLDR,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:37.500" data-start="00:18:37.500" data-video="qanda-emms">like how to start it on the link that to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:44.080" data-start="00:18:44.080" data-video="qanda-emms">website, find somehow that we can get on to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:52.900" data-start="00:18:52.900" data-video="qanda-emms">prepare for that. And this together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:54.700" data-start="00:18:54.700" data-video="qanda-emms">Now, question for you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:58.260" data-start="00:18:58.260" data-video="qanda-emms">Where would you like to see EMMS go?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:59.440" data-start="00:18:59.440" data-video="qanda-emms">Where do you see it landing?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:02.780" data-start="00:19:02.780" data-video="qanda-emms">What do you feel like this is what this is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:04.540" data-start="00:19:04.540" data-video="qanda-emms">we're sorely missing these things?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:09.740" data-start="00:19:09.740" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:13.540" data-start="00:19:13.540" data-video="qanda-emms">because I both use it to play my music</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:17.100" data-start="00:19:17.100" data-video="qanda-emms">collection, but also, like I record my own</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:20.140" data-start="00:19:20.140" data-video="qanda-emms">music. And I wanted to be able to edit my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:23.500" data-start="00:19:23.500" data-video="qanda-emms">metadata in Emacs, because editing metadata</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:29.100" data-start="00:19:29.100" data-video="qanda-emms">elsewhere sucks. And so that's kind of why I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:30.280" data-start="00:19:30.280" data-video="qanda-emms">got involved with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:33.440" data-start="00:19:33.440" data-video="qanda-emms">And I was like, being able to edit metadata,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:37.580" data-start="00:19:37.580" data-video="qanda-emms">especially for content that maybe you're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:41.760" data-start="00:19:41.760" data-video="qanda-emms">creating or because I have a bunch of files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:44.340" data-start="00:19:44.340" data-video="qanda-emms">of just unlabeled stuff I've recorded on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:45.340" data-start="00:19:45.340" data-video="qanda-emms">you know, different quarters,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:47.440" data-start="00:19:47.440" data-video="qanda-emms">things like that. So that's kind of where I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:50.320" data-start="00:19:50.320" data-video="qanda-emms">was focusing on it. It's the only media tool</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:52.540" data-start="00:19:52.540" data-video="qanda-emms">that lets me do that, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:54.520" data-start="00:19:54.520" data-video="qanda-emms">I can play the music back and have quick</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:58.260" data-start="00:19:58.260" data-video="qanda-emms">editing. So I know there was a couple of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:00.860" data-start="00:20:00.860" data-video="qanda-emms">things we had talked about in terms of maybe</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:03.260" data-start="00:20:03.260" data-video="qanda-emms">improving kind of the user interface for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:05.440" data-start="00:20:05.440" data-video="qanda-emms">tag editor, things like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:09.300" data-start="00:20:09.300" data-video="qanda-emms">So I don't have any grand visions for where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:15.660" data-start="00:20:15.660" data-video="qanda-emms">EMMS should go. I know pretty much all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:16.920" data-start="00:20:16.920" data-video="qanda-emms">things I've heard about it already.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:20.200" data-start="00:20:20.200" data-video="qanda-emms">You can hook up to GNU FM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:21.940" data-start="00:20:21.940" data-video="qanda-emms">the Scrabbling Service,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:23.200" data-start="00:20:23.200" data-video="qanda-emms">and all that kind of stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:26.920" data-start="00:20:26.920" data-video="qanda-emms">I don't really feel like it's missing much,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:29.020" data-start="00:20:29.020" data-video="qanda-emms">especially being able to choose the back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:31.880" data-start="00:20:31.880" data-video="qanda-emms">ends. I guess, if anything,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:34.960" data-start="00:20:34.960" data-video="qanda-emms">it's the interface. How can it be even more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:38.160" data-start="00:20:38.160" data-video="qanda-emms">intuitive for users? And I think that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:41.500" data-start="00:20:41.500" data-video="qanda-emms">you know, we need more people playing around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:43.380" data-start="00:20:43.380" data-video="qanda-emms">with it, I guess. Yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:46.220" data-start="00:20:46.220" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:47.520" data-start="00:20:47.520" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:49.240" data-start="00:20:49.240" data-video="qanda-emms">because I'm sure there are lots of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:50.440" data-start="00:20:50.440" data-video="qanda-emms">playing around with it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:51.460" data-start="00:20:51.460" data-video="qanda-emms">arriving at a conclusion,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:53.860" data-start="00:20:53.860" data-video="qanda-emms">keeping it to themselves and moving on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:59.160" data-start="00:20:59.160" data-video="qanda-emms">Yeah. Which, and I know that a lot of bits of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:01.820" data-start="00:21:01.820" data-video="qanda-emms">software put a send a bug report feature in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:04.660" data-start="00:21:04.660" data-video="qanda-emms">and stuff like that and no 1 uses those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:07.600" data-start="00:21:07.600" data-video="qanda-emms">either. So that's the frictional cost.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:10.440" data-start="00:21:10.440" data-video="qanda-emms">I think the context switch for people between</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:16.120" data-start="00:21:16.120" data-video="qanda-emms">this doesn't work to actually formulating in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:17.840" data-start="00:21:17.840" data-video="qanda-emms">words what didn't work,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:21.380" data-start="00:21:21.380" data-video="qanda-emms">that is a very expensive context which most</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:24.800" data-start="00:21:24.800" data-video="qanda-emms">people will not do. And we're poorer for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:32.220" data-start="00:21:32.220" data-video="qanda-emms">that. So, I think that when we integrate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:34.740" data-start="00:21:34.740" data-video="qanda-emms">music brains and other things like that into.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:37.460" data-start="00:21:37.460" data-video="qanda-emms">Now, of course, music brains will probably,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:41.200" data-start="00:21:41.200" data-video="qanda-emms">it would be very funny if you pull up your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:43.480" data-start="00:21:43.480" data-video="qanda-emms">stuff, right? Something that you wrote and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:46.080" data-start="00:21:46.080" data-video="qanda-emms">you say, hey, music brains match this and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:48.600" data-start="00:21:48.600" data-video="qanda-emms">it's not there, then it'll probably suggest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:51.720" data-start="00:21:51.720" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:52.660" data-start="00:21:52.660" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:58.260" data-start="00:21:58.260" data-video="qanda-emms">because there are, there was a system I was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:02.060" data-start="00:22:02.060" data-video="qanda-emms">looking at its code for researching stuff for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:04.480" data-start="00:22:04.480" data-video="qanda-emms">EMS And I'm trying to remember what it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:05.720" data-start="00:22:05.720" data-video="qanda-emms">named. It begins with a J,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:07.160" data-start="00:22:07.160" data-video="qanda-emms">it's this media player,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:13.780" data-start="00:22:13.780" data-video="qanda-emms">free floss media player that it's like a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:17.020" data-start="00:22:17.020" data-video="qanda-emms">media server that can cast to a television</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:20.940" data-start="00:22:20.940" data-video="qanda-emms">and stuff like that. And I asked it to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:24.280" data-start="00:22:24.280" data-video="qanda-emms">automatically label things and the results</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:28.180" data-start="00:22:28.180" data-video="qanda-emms">were horrible. It thought that half of my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:32.960" data-start="00:22:32.960" data-video="qanda-emms">songs were movies. It thought that JPEGs were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:35.800" data-start="00:22:35.800" data-video="qanda-emms">songs. It just, it did some,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:40.520" data-start="00:22:40.520" data-video="qanda-emms">it did incredibly, it's not a solved problem,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:44.660" data-start="00:22:44.660" data-video="qanda-emms">I think. So the, what I'm thinking with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:49.340" data-start="00:22:49.340" data-video="qanda-emms">MusicBrainz and those services is that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:51.840" data-start="00:22:51.840" data-video="qanda-emms">hit a button and you have you get another</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:57.040" data-start="00:22:57.040" data-video="qanda-emms">pane with a suggestion and you either and you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:59.060" data-start="00:22:59.060" data-video="qanda-emms">can copy through you can say okay copy this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:01.560" data-start="00:23:01.560" data-video="qanda-emms">and this in this field over or reject the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:03.960" data-start="00:23:03.960" data-video="qanda-emms">suggestion and maybe get another 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:04.940" data-start="00:23:04.940" data-video="qanda-emms">So,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:07.360" data-start="00:23:07.360" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:09.160" data-start="00:23:09.160" data-video="qanda-emms">That's more like a diff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:11.280" data-start="00:23:11.280" data-video="qanda-emms">right? Like you get the diff between the 2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:13.540" data-start="00:23:13.540" data-video="qanda-emms">and you can apply which changes you like.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:15.580" data-start="00:23:15.580" data-video="qanda-emms">Yeah. Was it Jellyfin?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:18.220" data-start="00:23:18.220" data-video="qanda-emms">Is that... Jellyfin? Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:19.460" data-start="00:23:19.460" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:22.340" data-start="00:23:22.340" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:24.960" data-start="00:23:24.960" data-video="qanda-emms">did it clobber all your metadata?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:27.440" data-start="00:23:27.440" data-video="qanda-emms">Or does it just label stuff?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:28.860" data-start="00:23:28.860" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:38.240" data-start="00:23:38.240" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:49.020" data-start="00:23:49.020" data-video="qanda-emms">looking for really, not allow me to do very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:54.640" data-start="00:23:54.640" data-video="qanda-emms">easily. So I was, so, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:56.660" data-start="00:23:56.660" data-video="qanda-emms">on 1 hand, it makes me feel,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:58.980" data-start="00:23:58.980" data-video="qanda-emms">oh, we're not the only ones dealing with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:00.680" data-start="00:24:00.680" data-video="qanda-emms">this. We're not the only ones struggling with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:01.440" data-start="00:24:01.440" data-video="qanda-emms">this. On the other hand,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:05.660" data-start="00:24:05.660" data-video="qanda-emms">it would be nice if that's a paragon that we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:08.460" data-start="00:24:08.460" data-video="qanda-emms">can look to and say, this is a wonderful way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:11.320" data-start="00:24:11.320" data-video="qanda-emms">of doing it. Let's incorporate as much of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:15.180" data-start="00:24:15.180" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:18.220" data-start="00:24:18.220" data-video="qanda-emms">especially if you're modifying people's media</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:19.780" data-start="00:24:19.780" data-video="qanda-emms">files you know so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:23.040" data-start="00:24:23.040" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:31.560" data-start="00:24:31.560" data-video="qanda-emms">that so I'm not a mainframe for MMS because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:35.020" data-start="00:24:35.020" data-video="qanda-emms">I'm old and curmudgeonly essentially in my,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:37.660" data-start="00:24:37.660" data-video="qanda-emms">in the way they do it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:40.080" data-start="00:24:40.080" data-video="qanda-emms">And honestly, I rarely ever,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:42.780" data-start="00:24:42.780" data-video="qanda-emms">I use the MMS browser when I need to debug</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:44.240" data-start="00:24:44.240" data-video="qanda-emms">the MS browser. I don't,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:48.740" data-start="00:24:48.740" data-video="qanda-emms">I use very simple commands and I even rarely</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:50.440" data-start="00:24:50.440" data-video="qanda-emms">look at the playlists.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:53.940" data-start="00:24:53.940" data-video="qanda-emms">That was 1 of the things because when I got</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:56.680" data-start="00:24:56.680" data-video="qanda-emms">into MMS originally when my eyesight started</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:59.640" data-start="00:24:59.640" data-video="qanda-emms">going so I had to rely less and less on GUI</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:02.800" data-start="00:25:02.800" data-video="qanda-emms">interfaces. So that was,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:06.340" data-start="00:25:06.340" data-video="qanda-emms">so to this day that's how I use EMMS.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:08.560" data-start="00:25:08.560" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:13.260" data-start="00:25:13.260" data-video="qanda-emms">I remember running into a browser bug because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:15.480" data-start="00:25:15.480" data-video="qanda-emms">I think just my age, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:18.120" data-start="00:25:18.120" data-video="qanda-emms">I want to be able to tab through and like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:20.060" data-start="00:25:20.060" data-video="qanda-emms">that was a huge that that changed recently</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:22.640" data-start="00:25:22.640" data-video="qanda-emms">right where you tab and it unfolds in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:27.620" data-start="00:25:27.620" data-video="qanda-emms">browser but yeah I realized that people use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:30.600" data-start="00:25:30.600" data-video="qanda-emms">emms in so many different ways just like any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:36.020" data-start="00:25:36.020" data-video="qanda-emms">piece of emacs there's there's many ways to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:39.960" data-start="00:25:39.960" data-video="qanda-emms">do it but appreciate your time I'm gonna</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:41.880" data-start="00:25:41.880" data-video="qanda-emms">actually put together this Christmas tree</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:43.400" data-start="00:25:43.400" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:45.260" data-start="00:25:45.260" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:50.900" data-start="00:25:50.900" data-video="qanda-emms">meet you in person. But yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:54.340" data-start="00:25:54.340" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:55.080" data-start="00:25:55.080" data-video="qanda-emms">generate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:59.960" data-start="00:25:59.960" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:00.780" data-start="00:26:00.780" data-video="qanda-emms">Yeah, thank you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:03.760" data-start="00:26:03.760" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:03.960" data-start="00:26:03.960" data-video="qanda-emms">conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:13.480" data-start="00:26:13.480" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:14.060" data-start="00:26:14.060" data-video="qanda-emms">here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:29.440" data-start="00:26:29.440" data-video="qanda-emms">Let's see. Let's see. So there is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:32.900" data-start="00:26:32.900" data-video="qanda-emms">okay. There's a question here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:34.540" data-start="00:26:34.540" data-video="qanda-emms">I like what you said about balancing the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:36.140" data-start="00:26:36.140" data-video="qanda-emms">concern for software freedom with the worry</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:38.360" data-start="00:26:38.360" data-video="qanda-emms">that this might alienate the package user.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:39.960" data-start="00:26:39.960" data-video="qanda-emms">I wonder if you have advice for other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:41.720" data-start="00:26:41.720" data-video="qanda-emms">maintainers how to communicate this sort of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:43.660" data-start="00:26:43.660" data-video="qanda-emms">thing diplomatically? Yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:45.660" data-start="00:26:45.660" data-video="qanda-emms">when you have to deny implementing a feature</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:48.480" data-start="00:26:48.480" data-video="qanda-emms">for a freedom reason. This in fact happens</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:56.140" data-start="00:26:56.140" data-video="qanda-emms">all the time. A recent example of this was a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:58.380" data-start="00:26:58.380" data-video="qanda-emms">YouTube download, right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:59.540" data-start="00:26:59.540" data-video="qanda-emms">the YouTube download feature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:04.040" data-start="00:27:04.040" data-video="qanda-emms">At the time, okay, so stepping back,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:07.440" data-start="00:27:07.440" data-video="qanda-emms">the request was to have a YouTube download</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:11.940" data-start="00:27:11.940" data-video="qanda-emms">feature integrated strongly into eMMS so that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:16.260" data-start="00:27:16.260" data-video="qanda-emms">you put in a YouTube URL and you can download</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:17.640" data-start="00:27:17.640" data-video="qanda-emms">the video and play it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:22.080" data-start="00:27:22.080" data-video="qanda-emms">And the question isn't really whether you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:24.660" data-start="00:27:24.660" data-video="qanda-emms">chain YouTube Downloader or 1 of those things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:26.600" data-start="00:27:26.600" data-video="qanda-emms">into your EMMS configuration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:28.140" data-start="00:27:28.140" data-video="qanda-emms">You can do whatever you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:30.840" data-start="00:27:30.840" data-video="qanda-emms">But the question is, does EMMS actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:33.340" data-start="00:27:33.340" data-video="qanda-emms">integrate with it really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:35.740" data-start="00:27:35.740" data-video="qanda-emms">really strongly to the extent where it tells</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:37.800" data-start="00:27:37.800" data-video="qanda-emms">you oh you don't need to download install</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:40.320" data-start="00:27:40.320" data-video="qanda-emms">please go ahead and install that or whatever</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:43.740" data-start="00:27:43.740" data-video="qanda-emms">and at the time we checked it we found out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:45.800" data-start="00:27:45.800" data-video="qanda-emms">that you know the version that we were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:49.280" data-start="00:27:49.280" data-video="qanda-emms">looking at of the YouTube download or YTDLP</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:51.720" data-start="00:27:51.720" data-video="qanda-emms">or whatever it was called,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:56.200" data-start="00:27:56.200" data-video="qanda-emms">actually downloaded a good amount of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:59.200" data-start="00:27:59.200" data-video="qanda-emms">proprietary JavaScript onto your machine and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:02.300" data-start="00:28:02.300" data-video="qanda-emms">ran it, just as if you were going on to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:06.560" data-start="00:28:06.560" data-video="qanda-emms">YouTube page, which is not for me to tell</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:09.980" data-start="00:28:09.980" data-video="qanda-emms">people not to do if they want to do that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:16.240" data-start="00:28:16.240" data-video="qanda-emms">but it's absolutely for me not to cause to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:18.540" data-start="00:28:18.540" data-video="qanda-emms">happen on the user's machine without them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:21.480" data-start="00:28:21.480" data-video="qanda-emms">1 of the last thing that I want to do in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:25.980" data-start="00:28:25.980" data-video="qanda-emms">world is have a user inside Emacs press a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:29.760" data-start="00:28:29.760" data-video="qanda-emms">button and have proprietary software get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:32.300" data-start="00:28:32.300" data-video="qanda-emms">downloaded behind their back and run on their</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:38.240" data-start="00:28:38.240" data-video="qanda-emms">machine that would be disastrous so we had to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:41.380" data-start="00:28:41.380" data-video="qanda-emms">say no we had to say that's I'm sorry that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:47.060" data-start="00:28:47.060" data-video="qanda-emms">beyond the pale and in fact in doing so some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:51.100" data-start="00:28:51.100" data-video="qanda-emms">people who were using this system said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:53.900" data-start="00:28:53.900" data-video="qanda-emms">actually I had no idea it was doing this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:56.660" data-start="00:28:56.660" data-video="qanda-emms">behind my back. I thought it was just magic.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:58.860" data-start="00:28:58.860" data-video="qanda-emms">I thought it was a YouTube video without any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:01.580" data-start="00:29:01.580" data-video="qanda-emms">freedom issues. I'm going to look into it or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:03.120" data-start="00:29:03.120" data-video="qanda-emms">I'm going to stop using it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:11.180" data-start="00:29:11.180" data-video="qanda-emms">So my advice would be Stand firm and just be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:15.040" data-start="00:29:15.040" data-video="qanda-emms">Not not preachy. Don't tell people what they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:19.580" data-start="00:29:19.580" data-video="qanda-emms">need to do be very clear about what you stand</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:21.900" data-start="00:29:21.900" data-video="qanda-emms">for and what the project stands for,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:28.660" data-start="00:29:28.660" data-video="qanda-emms">and so they very clearly know where you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:30.460" data-start="00:29:30.460" data-video="qanda-emms">stand. And I think that people actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:36.540" data-start="00:29:36.540" data-video="qanda-emms">appreciate that more than a political answer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:43.540" data-start="00:29:43.540" data-video="qanda-emms">right? That has been my experience.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:49.800" data-start="00:29:49.800" data-video="qanda-emms">Now, excuse me, taking into account that 1 or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:52.200" data-start="00:29:52.200" data-video="qanda-emms">2 people will tell you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:54.960" data-start="00:29:54.960" data-video="qanda-emms">this is terrible. I'm leaving.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:00.550" data-start="00:30:00.550" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:01.460" data-start="00:30:01.460" data-video="qanda-emms"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:03.400" data-start="00:30:03.400" data-video="qanda-emms">whatever, and just leave.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:05.860" data-start="00:30:05.860" data-video="qanda-emms">But some people are ornery.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:09.360" data-start="00:30:09.360" data-video="qanda-emms">That's not necessarily something bad that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:11.680" data-start="00:30:11.680" data-video="qanda-emms">did. But that has happened.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:14.200" data-start="00:30:14.200" data-video="qanda-emms">There are multiple stories.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:16.840" data-start="00:30:16.840" data-video="qanda-emms">Because the MMS is so old,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:20.080" data-start="00:30:20.080" data-video="qanda-emms">there are multiple points in which non-free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:23.940" data-start="00:30:23.940" data-video="qanda-emms">software intersected with the EMS because of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:28.580" data-start="00:30:28.580" data-video="qanda-emms">multimedia and we had to go the other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:33.300" data-start="00:30:33.300" data-video="qanda-emms">direction and so far it has served EMS well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:38.240" data-start="00:30:38.240" data-video="qanda-emms">like the project has died as a result.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:39.800" data-start="00:30:39.800" data-video="qanda-emms">Of course, can't prove a negative,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:42.040" data-start="00:30:42.040" data-video="qanda-emms">don't know where we would be if we had taken,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:44.760" data-start="00:30:44.760" data-video="qanda-emms">gone down that route. I'm pretty sure we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:46.100" data-start="00:30:46.100" data-video="qanda-emms">would need a new ELPA,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:50.860" data-start="00:30:50.860" data-video="qanda-emms">and I think being so clearly integrated with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:55.040" data-start="00:30:55.040" data-video="qanda-emms">emacs is a huge benefit to eMMS because it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:57.660" data-start="00:30:57.660" data-video="qanda-emms">it allows people to install it very easily.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:08.760" data-start="00:31:08.760" data-video="qanda-emms">And those are all the questions that I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:09.020" data-start="00:31:09.020" data-video="qanda-emms">see.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:15.060" data-start="00:31:15.060" data-video="qanda-emms"></span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20emms%3A%20Emacs%20MultiMedia%20System%20%28EMMS%29">emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org</a></p>
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</div>
EmacsConf.org: How we use Org Mode and TRAMP to organize and run a multi-track conference
https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/emacsconf/
Copyright © 2023 Sacha Chua
2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
2023-09-13T00:35:11Z
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Back to the <a href="https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/">talks</a>
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Track: <span class="sched-track Development">Development</span>
</div>
<h1>EmacsConf.org: How we use Org Mode and TRAMP to organize and run a multi-track conference</h1>
<p>Sacha Chua (she/her) - IRC: sachac, <a href="https://sachachua.com">https://sachachua.com</a>, Mastodon: @sachac@emacs.ch, <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com">sacha@sachachua.com</a></p>
<p>Format: 16-min talk; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room<br />
Status: Q&A to be extracted from the room recordings</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="emacsconf-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main.vtt" default />"""<track kind="chapters" label="Chapters" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main--chapters.vtt" /><p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><pre class="chapters" data-target="emacsconf-mainVideo">
<p>00:00.000 Intro
00:16.580 Reasons
01:09.400 Information
02:09.160 Properties
03:53.120 Timezones
04:29.720 Scheduling
05:41.780 Templates
06:48.400 Wiki
08:04.380 Etherpad
08:28.200 E-mail
09:05.920 BigBlueButton web conferences
10:08.121 Shortcuts
10:36.700 Logbook
11:03.680 Captions
12:13.220 Crontabs and playing the talks
13:11.280 Transitions
13:49.880 Wrapping up</p>
</pre>
<div></div>Duration: 15:05 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--intro.vtt">Download --intro.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--intro.webm">Download --intro.webm</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main--chapters.vtt">Download --main--chapters.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main.opus">Download --main.opus (8.3MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--main.webm">Download --main.webm (37MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--pad.html">Download --pad.html</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--pad.md">Download --pad.md</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/eX2dXG3xMtUHuuBz4fssGT">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="emacsconf-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="emacsconf-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div>Duration: 2:00:43 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.json">Download --answers.json (5.8MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (71MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a> (unedited)</li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (317MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
<p><details class="help"><summary>Help wanted: Q&A could be indexed with chapter markers </summary></p>
<p>The Q&A session for this talk does not have chapter markers yet.
Would you like to help? See <span class="selflink">help with chapter markers</span> for more details. You can use the vidid="emacsconf-qanda" if adding the markers to this wiki page, or e-mail your chapter notes to <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.</p>
<p>(If you want to work on this and you think it might take you a while, you can reserve this task by editing the page and adding volunteer="your-name date" or by e-mailing <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.)</p>
<p></details></p>
<p>Go on a whirlwind tour behind the scenes to see how we've been using
large Org Mode files and a bunch of Emacs Lisp functions to organize
and run EmacsConf. You might be able to pick up some ideas about Org
Mode navigation, image and video manipulation, captioning, publishing,
and remote command execution, and then check out the notes to find out
more.</p>
<p>Resources:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/">RevealJS presentation with clickable links, etc.</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/exported.html">As one long webpage</a></li>
<li><a href="https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/index.org">Presentation org file</a></li>
</ul>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: How "easy" would it be for someone else to reuse the EmacsConf
scripts and config to do a conf of their own?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: How can speakers and viewers help make preparing for next year's
EmacsConf even more fun for the organizers?
<ul>
<li>A: 1. Suggest ideas for talks! They don't have to be big or
complicated. 2. Share the word about things you liked!</li>
<li>follow-up Q: Would you consider making a demonstration video of
using subed.el?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: What tools would you like to exist in Emacsland to help with
preparing the conference next time?
<ul>
<li>A: Etherpad integration with Emacs from an API would be very
helpful, e.g. maybe using crdt.el. Also it would be nice if
subed could be used to fix audio sync issues while editing
subtitles.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Could you elaborate on the workflow that goes on in your mind for
when approaching these things? Do you start with an Emacs/Org
solution right off the bat at this point, when faced with a task?
Are there some conscious steps involved from early ideas to
automations of the kind you just showed?
<ul>
<li>A: 1. Take the time to try to understand and automate a task,
even if you think you're only going to do it once. The
learning process adds up over time and makes future, similar
tasks easier.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: How well does this approach allow for other organizers to do
individual customizations to their liking while still being able to
collaborate effectively?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:What was the hardest problem you encountered in organizing or
running the conference this year and how did you deal with it?</li>
<li>Q: Are you seeing year-to-year growth in attendance and after the
conference video watching? You should build the searchable
EmacsConf archive!
<ul>
<li>A: "The evil plan is working!" --Sacha Chua, 2023</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Any chance of an in-person EmacsConf again someday?
<ul>
<li>A: I'm not travelling any time soon, but if someone else wants
to organize things, I'll be happy to spread the word and help
with the backstage things. I really like virtual conferences,
though!</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Any suggestions or specific recommendations for hosting an
EmacsConf satellite event? Sorry wait, what was that name again?
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Do you have any stats on how many people watched, were in irc and
bbb , over those 2 days?
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p>TODO check out mcron</p>
<h2>Notes</h2>
<ul>
<li>I talk really quickly! Here's a self-paced RevealJS presentation
with narration and clickable links, etc.
<a href="https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/">https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/</a>
<ul>
<li>and as a long HTML page:
<a href="https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/exported.html">https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/exported.html</a></li>
<li>and the source Org file using org-re-reveal:
<a href="https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/index.org">https://sachachua.com/proj/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf/index.org</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Amazing presentation, Sacha!!! It's wonderful that all of your work
is well-documented. Thank you!!!</li>
<li>Feedback: toobnix was streaming much better than the webm feeds, so
would be great to expand that. Also, IRC on the web kept
disconnecting me and then I lose all the history. Would be great if
Etherpad could handle all the dialog and then have it archived as
the chats are interesting to review later as well.</li>
<li>This is my first year attending the conference, it was amazing! All
of the presenters and material were very impressive. And from a
technical perspective, the event was extremely smooth. It was easy
to find the agenda material online, and then use mpv to watch, and
ask questions on etherpad.</li>
<li><p>New stuff for EmacsConf 2023:</p>
<ul>
<li>Other organizers busy during prep time, so prioritization was
key</li>
<li>Wrote lots of blog posts on the way to refamiliarizing myself
with the code</li>
<li>Early acceptance with a week for extra comments</li>
<li>Two tracks from the start, could give everyone more time</li>
<li>Moved more mail merge templates into the library</li>
<li>Added more scripts for handling the sessions, playing talks,
joining Q&A</li>
<li>Used Spookfox to control Firefox from Emacs: creating BBB rooms,
extracting data</li>
<li>Phone recordings + subed-align + subed-record-compile-video =
intros, this presentation</li>
<li>subed-waveform made it more fun to check and adjust the
timestamps</li>
<li>I still don't like dealing with audio processing or sync
issues, good thing zaeph can handle them</li>
<li>Reduced coordination needs by opening Q&A right away instead of
waiting for signal</li>
<li>Used Tampermonkey to automatically connect to BigBlueButton from
streaming user</li>
<li>Crontab working smoothly; used timers and TRAMP last year</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Whatever you do, don't miss out @sachac's talk (this PM or otherwise). I stumbled on it on @bandali's channel following a link to Howard's, and it's a <em>masterclass</em> in wrangling things together to automate workflows in Emacs/Elisp/Org. When people ask about VS Code, this shows we are talking different mindsets and tools altogether.</p></li>
<li>Yeah! I'm excited for that one.
<pre><code>- So am I.. again! And I'll be rewatching it multiple times too, that's how packed in useful insights and tidbits it is. "What do you mean Emacs/Org is a platform and a way of life?" Well, here you go, great examplar :)
</code></pre></li>
<li>FYI Emacs now has <code>with-memoization</code>
<ul>
<li>I use a package (skeeto's?) that has defmemoize and such, is that outdated now?
<ul>
<li>Yes, Chris's package was developed years ago, and it's been useful to me as well. Stefan Monnier, IIRC, added with-memoization in...28.1, I think. IIRC there are minor differences but now the built-in one should usually be enough.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>The breadth of use cases and applications, and range of Emacs/Elisp/Org capabilities reached for in this talk is fascinating.</li>
<li><p>I had some time to pop into the mentor Q&A, and one of the things that bubbled up from the conversation was that there's always something to be curious about, even if you've been using Emacs for decades. It's not just about the stuff that comes built-in or even in packages, it's also all these different workflows. so it's easy to be perpetually curious and to have lots of fun.</p>
<ul>
<li>sachac, Agreed! Not only Emacs, either. For the last several years, I've hosted 1:1s with teammates where they can ask any tech question they want; if I don't know the answer, we figure it out together. And those are my favorite ones. <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":)" /></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>So nice to see these practical example of automating workflow with Emacs, great presentation sachac</p></li>
</ul>
<p><a name="emacsconf-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:00:00.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Intro</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.000" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Hi, I'm Sacha Chua. This presentation is a quick tour</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:04.840" data-start="00:00:04.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">of some of the things we do to run EmacsConf.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:07.960" data-start="00:00:07.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Since 2019, we've run it as an entirely online conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:12.240" data-start="00:00:12.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and we do as much of the organization as possible</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:14.700" data-start="00:00:14.700" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">within Emacs itself.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:16.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:00:16.580]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:16.580" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Reasons</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:16.580" data-start="00:00:16.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I have three reasons for making this presentation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:19.760" data-start="00:00:19.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The first is entirely selfish: I need to figure out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:22.760" data-start="00:00:22.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">all the stuff I built for last year's EmacsConf,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:25.360" data-start="00:00:25.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">since it was a bit of a crazy scramble.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:28.080" data-start="00:00:28.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The second is that I want to show people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.160" data-start="00:00:30.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">the process of thinking about a complex project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:33.240" data-start="00:00:33.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">looking for little things to automate in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:35.880" data-start="00:00:35.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and building things up from small pieces.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:38.440" data-start="00:00:38.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Maybe you'll get some ideas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:39.800" data-start="00:00:39.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and start building tools for yourself, too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:42.760" data-start="00:00:42.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The third is that you find any of these little tools interesting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:47.040" data-start="00:00:47.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I want to point you to blog posts and source code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:49.440" data-start="00:00:49.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">where you can find out more.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:51.240" data-start="00:00:51.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That way, you don't need to try</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:52.560" data-start="00:00:52.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to read and understand everything quickly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:55.400" data-start="00:00:55.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">You can find this presentation and other links</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:57.720" data-start="00:00:57.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">on the talk page at emacsconf.org/2023/talks/emacsconf.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:04.440" data-start="00:01:04.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">There are a lot of different parts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.320" data-start="00:01:06.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so I'll try to use this map to help make sense of it all.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:09.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:01:09.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:09.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Information</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.400" data-start="00:01:09.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">There's so much information to work with,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:11.200" data-start="00:01:11.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so it probably doesn't surprise you that we use Org Mode a lot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:14.920" data-start="00:01:14.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Most of the conference coordination happens over e-mail,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:18.000" data-start="00:01:18.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">which I can quickly search with notmuch.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.640" data-start="00:01:20.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Some of the information is private,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:22.360" data-start="00:01:22.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like emergency contact numbers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:24.520" data-start="00:01:24.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We store the talk information in a private Org file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:28.080" data-start="00:01:28.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I try to put as much as possible</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:30.080" data-start="00:01:30.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">into our public organizers' notebook</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.320" data-start="00:01:32.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that processes and decisions are documented.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:35.360" data-start="00:01:35.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We need a public website.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.920" data-start="00:01:36.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We use Ikiwiki to make the webpages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:39.040" data-start="00:01:39.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">because we can work with plain text files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:41.120" data-start="00:01:41.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">in a Git repository.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.600" data-start="00:01:42.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We also make a few static HTML pages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.400" data-start="00:01:45.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">for things where Ikiwiki is a little awkward.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.120" data-start="00:01:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We post announcements to mailing lists.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.520" data-start="00:01:50.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We also receive submissions in a private mailing list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.160" data-start="00:01:53.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that a number of people can review them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:55.640" data-start="00:01:55.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We have a backstage area</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:56.840" data-start="00:01:56.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">for sharing files with volunteers and speakers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:59.960" data-start="00:01:59.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We share those files publicly when the talk goes live.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.120" data-start="00:02:03.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">And there's all the other stuff that goes into running EmacsConf,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:06.320" data-start="00:02:06.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like shell scripts and configuration files.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:09.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:02:09.160]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:09.160" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Properties</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.160" data-start="00:02:09.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">First, speakers propose a talk by sending an e-mail.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.320" data-start="00:02:12.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We take the info from that e-mail and store it in Org properties</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.800" data-start="00:02:15.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that we can work with it later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:18.200" data-start="00:02:18.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Every talk is identified with an ID,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:20.600" data-start="00:02:20.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">but since <code>:ID:</code> and <code>:CUSTOM_ID:</code> have special meanings for Org,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.120" data-start="00:02:24.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I use <code>:SLUG:</code> as the keyword.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:25.600" data-start="00:02:25.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Speakers' names go into the <code>:NAME:</code> property,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:27.760" data-start="00:02:27.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and a short version goes into <code>:NAME_SHORT:</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:29.800" data-start="00:02:29.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that we can include that in a greeting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:32.200" data-start="00:02:32.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">If people follow the template closely...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:34.440" data-start="00:02:34.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">...we can even automatically fill in the Org subtree for their talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:38.040" data-start="00:02:38.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We can use regular expressions to recognize the text</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:40.800" data-start="00:02:40.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and extract the properties.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:42.880" data-start="00:02:42.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Other properties need to be set by hand.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:45.360" data-start="00:02:45.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I often mess things up when I retype them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:47.560" data-start="00:02:47.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">To avoid typos, I have a function that sets a property</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:51.040" data-start="00:02:51.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">based on the current region. I bind that to <code>C-c C-x p</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:56.040" data-start="00:02:56.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That makes it much easier to set properties</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:58.600" data-start="00:02:58.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that couldn't automatically be recognized.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:01.240" data-start="00:03:01.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Sometimes it makes sense to dynamically generate a property</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:04.520" data-start="00:03:04.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and then edit it, like with filenames.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:07.680" data-start="00:03:07.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We like to name all the talk files the same way,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:10.400" data-start="00:03:10.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">but sometimes special characters in talk titles or speaker names</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:14.440" data-start="00:03:14.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">need a little tweaking. I'll put that in a <code>:FILE_PREFIX:</code> property</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:17.840" data-start="00:03:17.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so I can edit it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:19.440" data-start="00:03:19.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">An Org property match can map over all the talk entries</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.800" data-start="00:03:22.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that don't have <code>:FILE_PREFIX:</code> defined.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.440" data-start="00:03:25.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We can use that <code>:FILE_PREFIX:</code> to rename files from Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:29.200" data-start="00:03:29.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">With that property, we can then rename files using that prefix,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:32.640" data-start="00:03:32.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">some extra text, and the file extension.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:35.640" data-start="00:03:35.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Sometimes it's easier to work with the data outside Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:38.880" data-start="00:03:38.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like when I want to rename files with a shell script.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.120" data-start="00:03:42.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">If I export a subset of the data as JSON</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:45.320" data-start="00:03:45.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">or JavaScript Object Notation, using <code>json-encode</code>...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:48.960" data-start="00:03:48.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">... then I can extract the data with <code>jq</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:51.120" data-start="00:03:51.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and use it in shell scripts.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:53.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:03:53.120]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:53.120" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Timezones</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.120" data-start="00:03:53.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Another example of semi-structured information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:55.640" data-start="00:03:55.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">is speaker availability.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:57.300" data-start="00:03:57.300" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We have speakers from all over the world,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:59.620" data-start="00:03:59.620" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so we try to schedule live Q&A sessions when they're around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.020" data-start="00:04:03.020" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That means working with timezones.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:05.020" data-start="00:04:05.020" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Completion makes it much easier to set the timezone property</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:08.440" data-start="00:04:08.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">without worrying about typos.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:10.600" data-start="00:04:10.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We can take advantage of the timezone list from the tzc package,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:14.360" data-start="00:04:14.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">which works with Unix timezone definitions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:17.160" data-start="00:04:17.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Then we can convert times using Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:19.920" data-start="00:04:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Using a standard format to encode the availability</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:22.640" data-start="00:04:22.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">makes it easier to parse.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:24.400" data-start="00:04:24.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I can use those availability constraints to report errors</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.440" data-start="00:04:27.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">when I'm experimenting with the schedule.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:29.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:04:29.720]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:29.720" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Scheduling</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:04:29.720" data-start="00:04:29.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Now that I have the availability information,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:31.680" data-start="00:04:31.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I can think about scheduling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:33.941" data-start="00:04:33.941" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">When we were planning EmacsConf 2022, the schedule was so full,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:38.240" data-start="00:04:38.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I wanted to see if we could make it more manageable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:40.840" data-start="00:04:40.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">by splitting it up into two tracks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:43.040" data-start="00:04:43.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It was hard to think about times with just a table.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:45.920" data-start="00:04:45.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I was able to turn the schedule information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:48.200" data-start="00:04:48.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">into an SVG to convince the other organizers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:51.280" data-start="00:04:51.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to get on board with this crazy plan.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:53.360" data-start="00:04:53.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">And the nice thing about SVGs is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:54.960" data-start="00:04:54.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">they can even be clickable on the wiki.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:57.520" data-start="00:04:57.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Being able to quickly make SVGs of different schedules</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:00.640" data-start="00:05:00.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">also helped me test scheduling ideas and think out loud.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:04.200" data-start="00:05:04.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I could change the time between talks, the order of the talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:06.880" data-start="00:05:06.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and even what tracks the talks were in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:08.940" data-start="00:05:08.940" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This was helpful when I needed to include</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:10.720" data-start="00:05:10.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">some late submissions or availability changes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:13.240" data-start="00:05:13.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and I wanted to ask speakers what they thought.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:15.600" data-start="00:05:15.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">They could see the different schedule options themselves.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:18.800" data-start="00:05:18.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's really nice to have Emacs Lisp support for working with SVGs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:22.680" data-start="00:05:22.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I also love how I can have an Emacs Lisp block</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:25.400" data-start="00:05:25.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">in an Org Mode document that updates an SVG</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.600" data-start="00:05:28.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that I can view right there in my text editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:32.000" data-start="00:05:32.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Setting the timezone lets me automatically translate times</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:34.800" data-start="00:05:34.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to the speaker's local timezone when I e-mail them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:37.820" data-start="00:05:37.820" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That's mostly a matter of using <code>format-time-string</code> with a timezone.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:41.780" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:05:41.780]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:41.780" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Templates</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:05:41.780" data-start="00:05:41.780" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">There's a lot of text to work with,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:43.160" data-start="00:05:43.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">which means templates are super handy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:45.700" data-start="00:05:45.700" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">There are a number of templating functions for Emacs Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:48.120" data-start="00:05:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like the built-in <code>tempo.el</code> or <code>s-lex-format</code> from <code>s.el</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:52.960" data-start="00:05:52.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I ended up writing something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.440" data-start="00:05:54.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that works with property lists (plists) instead,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:58.020" data-start="00:05:58.020" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">since we use plists all over the emacsconf-el library.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:02.200" data-start="00:06:02.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">All it does is replace <code>${variable}</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:04.000" data-start="00:06:04.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">with the value from a property list.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:05.520" data-start="00:06:05.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I use this mostly because I have a hard time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:07.560" data-start="00:06:07.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">keeping track of which <code>%s</code> is which when I use <code>format</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:11.080" data-start="00:06:11.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and it's hard to get an overall view if I just use <code>concat</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:14.300" data-start="00:06:14.300" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The code looks for the properties and replaces them with the values.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:17.600" data-start="00:06:17.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I just find it a little easier to think about sometimes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:21.300" data-start="00:06:21.300" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Getting all the information is just a matter of going over</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:24.080" data-start="00:06:24.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">all the talk entries using <code>org-map-entries</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:27.400" data-start="00:06:27.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This builds the talk info by running a bunch of functions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:30.700" data-start="00:06:30.700" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Some functions get the information from the Org file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:33.820" data-start="00:06:33.820" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Other functions use the info already collected.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:36.960" data-start="00:06:36.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This can take a while to do again and again.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:39.260" data-start="00:06:39.260" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's useful to <code>memoize</code> this function</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:41.740" data-start="00:06:41.740" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">when I know I'll be using it a lot,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:43.500" data-start="00:06:43.500" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like when I export the organizers notebook.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:45.960" data-start="00:06:45.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Memoize caches recent values.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:48.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:06:48.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:48.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Wiki</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.400" data-start="00:06:48.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We combine this templating function</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:50.240" data-start="00:06:50.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">with the talk information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:51.480" data-start="00:06:51.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to fill in the conference wiki,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:53.440" data-start="00:06:53.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">since that's a matter of writing templated strings to files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:56.480" data-start="00:06:56.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The talk pages are generated once</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:58.280" data-start="00:06:58.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and then left alone for manual editing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.280" data-start="00:07:00.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">while the navigation is regenerated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:02.400" data-start="00:07:02.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">every time we change the details.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:04.660" data-start="00:07:04.660" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Here are some examples</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:05.800" data-start="00:07:05.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">of how we fill in the conference wiki.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:07.920" data-start="00:07:07.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We put in the format of the talk, how Q&A works,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:10.960" data-start="00:07:10.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and what the status is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:12.320" data-start="00:07:12.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Once the talk is live, we include the video</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:14.960" data-start="00:07:14.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and the links to the files, too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:17.080" data-start="00:07:17.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The code is a little bit long,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:18.720" data-start="00:07:18.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">but the important part is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:20.080" data-start="00:07:20.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">we fill in a plist with the values we calculate,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:22.880" data-start="00:07:22.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and then we can use <code>emacsconf-replace-plist-in-string</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:26.380" data-start="00:07:26.380" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to put that all together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:28.020" data-start="00:07:28.020" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The schedule is a little more complicated.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:30.280" data-start="00:07:30.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I wrote an Ikiwiki directive</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:32.080" data-start="00:07:32.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that the markup is more manageable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:34.020" data-start="00:07:34.020" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and the Emacs Lisp function uses that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:36.520" data-start="00:07:36.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The Ikiwiki directive takes all the data and turns it into HTML...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:40.620" data-start="00:07:40.620" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">...so we can use Emacs Lisp to iterate over</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:42.960" data-start="00:07:42.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">a slightly smaller property list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.820" data-start="00:07:44.820" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and put them into the format Ikiwiki expects.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:47.780" data-start="00:07:47.780" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's nice to be able to navigate between talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:50.080" data-start="00:07:50.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">without going back to the schedule page each time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:52.840" data-start="00:07:52.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This is handled by keeping two extra copies of the list:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.580" data-start="00:07:55.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">one with the first talk popped off,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:57.560" data-start="00:07:57.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and one with an extra element added to the beginning.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:00.360" data-start="00:08:00.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Then we can use the heads of those lists</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:02.440" data-start="00:08:02.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">for next/previous links.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:04.380" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:08:04.380]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:04.380" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Etherpad</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:04.380" data-start="00:08:04.380" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Links to the next talks are also handy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:06.680" data-start="00:08:06.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">on the collaborative Etherpad documents</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:08.640" data-start="00:08:08.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that we use for collecting questions, answers, and notes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.040" data-start="00:08:12.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">during each talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.840" data-start="00:08:12.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Etherpad has an API...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.300" data-start="00:08:15.300" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">...so I can start the pads off with a template</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:17.320" data-start="00:08:17.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">before the conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:18.940" data-start="00:08:18.940" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I don't want to accidentally overwrite a pad</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:21.240" data-start="00:08:21.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that has been manually edited.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.940" data-start="00:08:22.940" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We can save the timestamp of the last modification</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:25.720" data-start="00:08:25.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and then compare it before overwriting.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:28.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:08:28.200]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:28.200" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">E-mail</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:28.200" data-start="00:08:28.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Templates are also very handy when it comes to e-mail.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:31.240" data-start="00:08:31.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Sometimes we send e-mails one at a time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:33.600" data-start="00:08:33.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like when we let a speaker know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.200" data-start="00:08:35.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that we've received their proposal.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:36.880" data-start="00:08:36.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That's mostly a matter of plugging the talk's properties</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:39.560" data-start="00:08:39.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">into the right places in the template.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:41.560" data-start="00:08:41.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Sometimes we send e-mails to lots of speakers at the same time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:45.020" data-start="00:08:45.020" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like when we send them instructions for uploading their files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:48.300" data-start="00:08:48.300" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Instead of sending one e-mail and Bcc-ing everyone,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:51.620" data-start="00:08:51.620" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">or sending people multiple e-mails</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:53.480" data-start="00:08:53.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">because they have multiple talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:55.140" data-start="00:08:55.140" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I like to draft these as individual e-mails</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:57.560" data-start="00:08:57.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to each speaker (or group of speakers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:59.800" data-start="00:08:59.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">if more than one person is associated with a talk).</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:02.600" data-start="00:09:02.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That gives me an opportunity to personalize it further.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:05.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:09:05.920]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:05.920" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">BigBlueButton web conferences</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:09:05.920" data-start="00:09:05.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Many speakers answer questions live</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:08.120" data-start="00:09:08.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">in BigBlueButton web conference rooms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:10.440" data-start="00:09:10.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Setting up one room per group of speakers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:12.640" data-start="00:09:12.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">makes it easy to give the speakers the details</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:15.400" data-start="00:09:15.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and associate the recorded video with the talk afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:18.720" data-start="00:09:18.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">For EmacsConf 2023,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:20.600" data-start="00:09:20.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I used Spookfox to control Mozilla Firefox from Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.080" data-start="00:09:25.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that I could automate creating the rooms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:27.480" data-start="00:09:27.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and adding the URLs to the talk properties in my Org file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:30.957" data-start="00:09:30.957" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Then I can use mail merge to send each speaker</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:33.960" data-start="00:09:33.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">the check-in instructions for their specific room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:36.900" data-start="00:09:36.900" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Some speakers will take questions by e-mail</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:39.140" data-start="00:09:39.140" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">after the conference instead of attending live,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:41.620" data-start="00:09:41.620" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so we send them shorter instructions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:43.360" data-start="00:09:43.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">just in case they want to drop by.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:45.540" data-start="00:09:45.540" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.800" data-start="00:09:47.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">we can open it up for other people to join.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:50.580" data-start="00:09:50.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This is handled by changing the public page</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:53.040" data-start="00:09:53.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">from one that just refreshes in a loop</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:55.120" data-start="00:09:55.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to one that redirects to the actual web conference room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:58.821" data-start="00:09:58.821" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Just in case, we also</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:00.080" data-start="00:10:00.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">generate static copies of those redirects</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:02.160" data-start="00:10:02.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that we can copy them if needed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:04.300" data-start="00:10:04.300" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That way, I don't have to count on Emacs being able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:06.680" data-start="00:10:06.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">publish them over TRAMP.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:08.121" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:10:08.121]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:08.121" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Shortcuts</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:10:08.121" data-start="00:10:08.121" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">During the conference, I'm often jumping from talk to talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:11.660" data-start="00:10:11.660" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Instead of going to the Org file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:13.200" data-start="00:10:13.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and then searching for the talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:14.520" data-start="00:10:14.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I've made a little Hydra with keyboard shortcuts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.240" data-start="00:10:17.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">One of these shortcuts lets me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:19.080" data-start="00:10:19.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">jump to a talk with completion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:20.960" data-start="00:10:20.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that I can just type in part of the talk ID,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:24.260" data-start="00:10:24.260" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">title, or speaker name.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:26.400" data-start="00:10:26.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I've also defined some Embark actions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:28.680" data-start="00:10:28.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that I can act on a talk right from the completion menu.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:32.080" data-start="00:10:32.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">For example, I might want to jump to the wiki page</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:35.080" data-start="00:10:35.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">or e-mail the speaker.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:36.700" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:10:36.700]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:36.700" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Logbook</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:10:36.700" data-start="00:10:36.700" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I can also add notes to a talk while looking at an email,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:40.100" data-start="00:10:40.100" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like when a speaker lets me know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:41.640" data-start="00:10:41.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that their video will be late.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:43.280" data-start="00:10:43.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Making it easy to add a note turns Emacs into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:45.800" data-start="00:10:45.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">a very basic contact relationship management system, or CRM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:49.960" data-start="00:10:49.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The way this works is that we have a function</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:52.440" data-start="00:10:52.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">that lists all the email addresses associated with a talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:55.460" data-start="00:10:55.460" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We can then map that over the list of talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:57.920" data-start="00:10:57.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">look up the author of the current email,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:59.960" data-start="00:10:59.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">prompt the user for the talk to add the note to, and add the note.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:03.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:11:03.680]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:03.680" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Captions</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:11:03.680" data-start="00:11:03.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">On to captions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:04.680" data-start="00:11:04.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We've been doing captions for the last couple of years,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:07.240" data-start="00:11:07.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and now we have a small army of volunteer captioners.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:10.420" data-start="00:11:10.420" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">They get early access to the recorded talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.680" data-start="00:11:12.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and fix up misrecognized words, format keyboard shortcuts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.160" data-start="00:11:16.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to follow Emacs conventions, spell names correctly,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:19.580" data-start="00:11:19.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and do all sorts of other wonderful things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:21.840" data-start="00:11:21.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">One of our evil plans with EmacsConf</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:24.400" data-start="00:11:24.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">is to get cool stuff out of people's heads into videos</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:28.360" data-start="00:11:28.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and also make captions so that those videos can be searched.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:32.040" data-start="00:11:32.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">To make that possible, we first need a backstage area</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:35.000" data-start="00:11:35.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">where volunteers can get the files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:36.920" data-start="00:11:36.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This is just a simple password-protected directory</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:39.840" data-start="00:11:39.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">with a static HTML page that lists the talks by status</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:43.740" data-start="00:11:43.740" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and shows the files related to each talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:46.380" data-start="00:11:46.380" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">As a talk moves through the process, I update its TODO state</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.900" data-start="00:11:49.900" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and republish this index.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:51.360" data-start="00:11:51.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Talks that are ready to be captioned show up in that section,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:54.520" data-start="00:11:54.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and volunteers can call dibs on the talk they're interested in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:58.180" data-start="00:11:58.180" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">That's all done with a function that formats the information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.980" data-start="00:12:00.980" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and uses TRAMP to save the file directly to the server.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:04.320" data-start="00:12:04.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">You can find more details on our captioning process</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:06.680" data-start="00:12:06.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">at emacsconf.org/captioning.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:09.040" data-start="00:12:09.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I like using subed to edit subtitles within Emacs.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:13.220" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:12:13.220]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:13.220" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Crontabs and playing the talks</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:12:13.220" data-start="00:12:13.220" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Let's talk about actually playing the talks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:16.060" data-start="00:12:16.060" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">For EmacsConf 2022, we tried using Emacs timers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:19.560" data-start="00:12:19.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to run the talks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:20.940" data-start="00:12:20.940" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It turns out that you can't call TRAMP from a timer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:24.080" data-start="00:12:24.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">when you're already using TRAMP from another timer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:26.720" data-start="00:12:26.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">at the same time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:27.800" data-start="00:12:27.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I thought about just tweaking the schedule</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:29.720" data-start="00:12:29.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so that we always start things at different times,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:31.800" data-start="00:12:31.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">but I figured there's probably a more elegant way to do this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.120" data-start="00:12:35.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This year, I'm planning to experiment with using cron</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:37.520" data-start="00:12:37.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to start talks on autopilot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:39.600" data-start="00:12:39.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The shell scripts will take care of playing the videos...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:42.480" data-start="00:12:42.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">... figuring out the appropriate Q&A...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:44.840" data-start="00:12:44.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">... and joining the web conference if needed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:47.580" data-start="00:12:47.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We just need to format the information...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:49.600" data-start="00:12:49.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">...and install it as the track's crontab.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:52.220" data-start="00:12:52.220" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's useful to be able to switch tracks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:54.080" data-start="00:12:54.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to manual mode independently,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:55.880" data-start="00:12:55.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">just in case things go haywire.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:57.900" data-start="00:12:57.900" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Then we can start everything manually.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:00.120" data-start="00:13:00.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">I can also manually update a talk's status,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:02.800" data-start="00:13:02.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">like when the host tells me that it's okay to open up the Q&A.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:06.520" data-start="00:13:06.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The shell scripts we run from the crontab</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:08.720" data-start="00:13:08.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">can also update the talk status themselves.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:11.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:13:11.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:11.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Transitions</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:13:11.280" data-start="00:13:11.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Then a bunch of things automatically happen based on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:14.320" data-start="00:13:14.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">the talk status changes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:15.600" data-start="00:13:15.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This uses <code>org-after-todo-state-change-hook</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:18.960" data-start="00:13:18.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We get the talk information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:20.360" data-start="00:13:20.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and pass it to a list of functions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:22.520" data-start="00:13:22.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Internet Relay Chat or IRC is an easy way for people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:26.280" data-start="00:13:26.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to join the conversation around EmacsConf.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:29.140" data-start="00:13:29.140" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">We announce a talk whenever it changes state.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:31.800" data-start="00:13:31.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">For example, when a talk starts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:33.600" data-start="00:13:33.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">we post the URLs to the talk webpage</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:36.040" data-start="00:13:36.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and the Etherpad for questions. We change the topic as well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:39.440" data-start="00:13:39.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">so anyone can see the current talk's information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:41.880" data-start="00:13:41.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">even if they're a little late.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:43.180" data-start="00:13:43.180" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">This is easy to do with a little bit of Emacs Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:45.800" data-start="00:13:45.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">because (of course!) Emacs has an IRC client.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:48.520" data-start="00:13:48.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">In fact, it has several.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsconf" class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:49.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">[00:13:49.880]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:13:49.880" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Wrapping up</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:13:49.880" data-start="00:13:49.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It seems like a lot of automation and Emacs Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:53.140" data-start="00:13:53.140" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">but really, all of this was just built up little by little.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:56.900" data-start="00:13:56.900" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">And tinkering with this is <em>fun</em>, you know?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:59.280" data-start="00:13:59.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's like always being able to ask,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.260" data-start="00:14:01.260" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">"Hey, wouldn't it be cool if..."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:03.301" data-start="00:14:03.301" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and then actually being able to go and do it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:05.280" data-start="00:14:05.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Sometimes it feels like EmacsConf is an excuse</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:08.000" data-start="00:14:08.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">for me to play with Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:10.200" data-start="00:14:10.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's pretty amazing what you can do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:12.000" data-start="00:14:12.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">by combining a bunch of pieces.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.800" data-start="00:14:13.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">A way to store slightly-structured information.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:16.720" data-start="00:14:16.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">A way to get it out again. Templates.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:18.880" data-start="00:14:18.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">TRAMP, for working with remote files</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:20.680" data-start="00:14:20.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and running remote commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.920" data-start="00:14:21.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">A way to talk to a web browser.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:23.840" data-start="00:14:23.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">A way to work with SVGs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:25.400" data-start="00:14:25.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">An email client. A chat client.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:27.760" data-start="00:14:27.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">You can smoosh them all together</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:29.640" data-start="00:14:29.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">in a way that you couldn't if they were all separate things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:32.700" data-start="00:14:32.700" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The code is in the emacsconf-el repository.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:36.280" data-start="00:14:36.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">It's a bit of a tangle because it's accumulating organically</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:39.120" data-start="00:14:39.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">and I haven't really had the brainspace</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:40.880" data-start="00:14:40.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">to step back and clean it up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:42.580" data-start="00:14:42.580" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">But if you spotted anything interesting in this presentation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:45.920" data-start="00:14:45.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">you can go check it out and see what you can scavenge.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:48.620" data-start="00:14:48.620" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">The link and this presentation are available</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:51.000" data-start="00:14:51.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">from this talk's webpage at emacsconf.org/2023/talks/emacsconf .</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:59.120" data-start="00:14:59.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsconf">Let's figure out how to make Emacsconf even awesomer next year!</span></p>
<p>Captioner: sachac</p>
<p><a name="emacsconf-qanda-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:53.489" data-start="00:00:53.489" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:59.860" data-start="00:00:59.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's been a while since I've actually done an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.360" data-start="00:01:05.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actual presentation. Hi.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:08.979" data-start="00:01:08.979" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay. I'm going to deafen myself and mumble</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:12.540" data-start="00:01:12.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so that I don't get distracted by backstage</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:16.400" data-start="00:01:16.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">chatter. Hello, everyone! Okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:17.980" data-start="00:01:17.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so where are we? Questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.800" data-start="00:01:20.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">questions, questions. Okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:23.400" data-start="00:01:23.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">how easy would it be for someone else to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.960" data-start="00:01:25.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">reuse the Emacs conf strips and config to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:29.380" data-start="00:01:29.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a conf of their own? Like everything else,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.220" data-start="00:01:32.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have no idea if things actually work until</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:35.140" data-start="00:01:35.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">somebody does it for, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:37.500" data-start="00:01:37.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to get everything to run on a computer that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:40.080" data-start="00:01:40.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">isn't my computer and with assumptions that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:40.640" data-start="00:01:40.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">aren't my assumptions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.840" data-start="00:01:42.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, I have no idea. But optimistically,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:46.000" data-start="00:01:46.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have put most of the EmacsConf things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.760" data-start="00:01:48.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like EmacsConf, the name of the conference</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.120" data-start="00:01:50.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and things like that in variables.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.160" data-start="00:01:53.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So if theoretically someone were to run an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:56.040" data-start="00:01:56.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">org mode conference or something like that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:58.440" data-start="00:01:58.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it might be possible to reuse all this code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:01.960" data-start="00:02:01.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We'll see. I don't know if it's going to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.480" data-start="00:02:03.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">easy. I don't even know if it's going to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:04.760" data-start="00:02:04.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">possible, but it might be fun to try.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.840" data-start="00:02:09.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What tools would I like to exist in Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:11.720" data-start="00:02:11.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">land to help with preparing the conference</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.880" data-start="00:02:15.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">next time? Well, I've already been thinking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:18.420" data-start="00:02:18.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about adjustments that I want to make to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:21.220" data-start="00:02:21.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sub-eds so that the audio synchronization</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.340" data-start="00:02:24.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">issues that we sometimes have with FFmpeg can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:26.600" data-start="00:02:26.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">be something that I can flag and maybe fix</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:29.060" data-start="00:02:29.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even while I'm watching a video.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:32.960" data-start="00:02:32.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But also as much as possible,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:36.820" data-start="00:02:36.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I like to leave the actual FFMPEG audio and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.220" data-start="00:02:39.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">visual tinkering with to other people like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:41.320" data-start="00:02:41.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Leo, whose patience is slightly more than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:44.680" data-start="00:02:44.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">mine, because audio is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:47.080" data-start="00:02:47.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I still don't have the patience to sit for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.620" data-start="00:02:48.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it. You can tell I talk really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:50.540" data-start="00:02:50.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">really quickly. I'm still trying to squeeze</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:53.000" data-start="00:02:53.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything into however little focus time I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:56.140" data-start="00:02:56.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually have. So it would be kind of nice to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.820" data-start="00:03:00.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">use that. Emacs is already doing quite a ton</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:04.740" data-start="00:03:04.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and stuffing more multimedia processing and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.180" data-start="00:03:06.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other fun things into it might be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:07.000" data-start="00:03:07.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interesting. Who knows?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:09.280" data-start="00:03:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Oh, the other thing that I would really love</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:12.280" data-start="00:03:12.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to have that people always ask for is a way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:15.360" data-start="00:03:15.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from Emacs to interact with the Etherpad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:18.900" data-start="00:03:18.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">The Etherpad API, it seems very granular.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:21.120" data-start="00:03:21.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like, you can set the HTML of a pad,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.920" data-start="00:03:22.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but you can't actually just append stuff to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:24.640" data-start="00:03:24.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it. And I was trying to get something that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:26.820" data-start="00:03:26.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">could take questions from IRC and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:28.480" data-start="00:03:28.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">automatically push them into the pad,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:30.920" data-start="00:03:30.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even from an ERC bot or whatever,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:34.400" data-start="00:03:34.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but no go. If someone were to figure out some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:38.860" data-start="00:03:38.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">CRDT thing where we can collaboratively edit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:41.280" data-start="00:03:41.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the document, that I think is the number 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.720" data-start="00:03:42.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">request that people always have around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:46.560" data-start="00:03:46.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">EmacsConf. That would be really cool to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:48.900" data-start="00:03:48.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more of the conference itself from within</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.240" data-start="00:03:53.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs. I don't know if actually,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:55.360" data-start="00:03:55.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">well, we have an org file now that launches</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:59.440" data-start="00:03:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the MPV from Emacs. But if you want to have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.960" data-start="00:04:01.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">an ex-widget or something else watching the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.740" data-start="00:04:03.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference from within Emacs itself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:05.640" data-start="00:04:05.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think that will also be really cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:09.480" data-start="00:04:09.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yes. And then other fun stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:12.980" data-start="00:04:12.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">OK, how can speakers and viewers help make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:15.280" data-start="00:04:15.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">preparing for next year's Emacs Conf even</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:16.300" data-start="00:04:16.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more fun for the organizers?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:20.440" data-start="00:04:20.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Well, I love it when not only do the speakers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:24.280" data-start="00:04:24.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do all that work to prepare their talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.620" data-start="00:04:27.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but lately people have actually even been</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:29.780" data-start="00:04:29.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">volunteering to caption their own talks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:33.600" data-start="00:04:33.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And that's great because then they know the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:36.000" data-start="00:04:36.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">words that they use. And if I can show them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:39.140" data-start="00:04:39.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the workflow that we have so that they can do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:41.920" data-start="00:04:41.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it very efficiently, because there's all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:44.620" data-start="00:04:44.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">these wonderful things that I do now with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:48.340" data-start="00:04:48.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Subweb Waveform and Aeneas for like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:49.900" data-start="00:04:49.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">forced alignment so we can get timestamps</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:53.100" data-start="00:04:53.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from text and all these other fun things that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:55.520" data-start="00:04:55.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">make getting a transcript or editing the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:57.380" data-start="00:04:57.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">captions fun and easy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:00.780" data-start="00:05:00.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That makes it easier for not only speakers to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:02.800" data-start="00:05:02.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">contribute captions for their own talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:05.220" data-start="00:05:05.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but also interested volunteers who,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:07.760" data-start="00:05:07.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as mentioned, get early access to all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:09.140" data-start="00:05:09.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talks and can watch them at leisure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:12.540" data-start="00:05:12.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it's, you know, nice prick there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:13.700" data-start="00:05:13.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Definitely should try that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.400" data-start="00:05:19.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I do have some sample videos of how we use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:21.500" data-start="00:05:21.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">subed. But of course, in the process of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.280" data-start="00:05:24.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">shoving like 30 or 40 talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:26.600" data-start="00:05:26.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">maybe 30 talks through it for EmacsConf,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:29.440" data-start="00:05:29.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this is like the stress test season for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:30.340" data-start="00:05:30.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">subed, which is great,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:31.880" data-start="00:05:31.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I ended up adding more features.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.260" data-start="00:05:36.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So 1 of my big to-dos afterwards is I have to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:38.300" data-start="00:05:38.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">document the different workflows for things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:40.260" data-start="00:05:40.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, okay, you've got a script.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:43.520" data-start="00:05:43.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You can use WDiff to get word diffs so you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:45.600" data-start="00:05:45.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">can take the subtitles and compare them with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:47.540" data-start="00:05:47.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the original script and see where the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:48.880" data-start="00:05:48.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">misrecognized words are.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:52.960" data-start="00:05:52.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And that's great. Or you can use SubWeb</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.960" data-start="00:05:54.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Waveform to start adjusting things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.820" data-start="00:05:56.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Or for example, if there's a synchronization</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:01.320" data-start="00:06:01.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">issue, I can now middle click on a subtitle</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:03.680" data-start="00:06:03.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">where I want the subtitle to actually start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:06.500" data-start="00:06:06.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then move all the subtitles to start at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:09.020" data-start="00:06:09.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that point. So it's getting to be a really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:10.860" data-start="00:06:10.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">elaborate tool. And I definitely need to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:15.220" data-start="00:06:15.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">document that and stick all the blog post</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:17.860" data-start="00:06:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">links into the readme so that people can find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:20.560" data-start="00:06:20.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this in the future. So it's very,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:23.080" data-start="00:06:23.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">very nifty. And the reason why we do this is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:24.720" data-start="00:06:24.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because, well, personally,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:26.820" data-start="00:06:26.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have a hard time sitting and watching</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:28.940" data-start="00:06:28.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">videos. I like to be able to just jump to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:31.540" data-start="00:06:31.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interesting parts or watch it at 3 times</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:33.400" data-start="00:06:33.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">speed, which MPV lets me do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:36.160" data-start="00:06:36.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And the text makes it a lot more searchable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:38.960" data-start="00:06:38.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is fantastic. And also because,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:41.000" data-start="00:06:41.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, if you've got all these interesting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:44.220" data-start="00:06:44.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">variable names and key bindings and whatever,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:47.360" data-start="00:06:47.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and the automatic subtitles just don't do the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:49.540" data-start="00:06:49.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right thing. So it's nice that people do the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:53.360" data-start="00:06:53.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">captioning. So, yeah, so that's 1 thing that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:55.080" data-start="00:06:55.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people can help with. Captioning is always</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:57.160" data-start="00:06:57.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">very interesting. And the other thing that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.600" data-start="00:07:00.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people can do is take the inspiration that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:02.860" data-start="00:07:02.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you get from EmacsConf and from the ideas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:04.640" data-start="00:07:04.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that you have when you're working with Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:07.280" data-start="00:07:07.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and suggest talks for next year's EmacsConf.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:09.760" data-start="00:07:09.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it doesn't have to be a super fancy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:13.740" data-start="00:07:13.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">nobody else needs to go out and do a really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:14.920" data-start="00:07:14.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">professional-looking video.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:17.480" data-start="00:07:17.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Even though Howard has set the bar this you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:19.640" data-start="00:07:19.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">know it's pretty high you don't have to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:22.540" data-start="00:07:22.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that kind of thing it can be just you in a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:24.860" data-start="00:07:24.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">screen or even just a screen and you talking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:27.340" data-start="00:07:27.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about this cool thing that you learned and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:29.040" data-start="00:07:29.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they could be a video or it could be a blog</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:31.560" data-start="00:07:31.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">post it could be something else and that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:34.780" data-start="00:07:34.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">those those things are fantastic because they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:36.960" data-start="00:07:36.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">inspire people to see what's possible with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:39.440" data-start="00:07:39.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs. So that's another big thing that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:40.800" data-start="00:07:40.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people can do to help.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.080" data-start="00:07:44.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then there's sharing the word about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:46.360" data-start="00:07:46.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So if you saw something that you really like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:48.760" data-start="00:07:48.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">if you write a blog post about it or a tweet</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:51.220" data-start="00:07:51.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or a toot or whatever else you want to do,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:52.480" data-start="00:07:52.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you make a reaction video,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.280" data-start="00:07:55.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that helps other people discover that stuff</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:57.800" data-start="00:07:57.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">not just today, not just next week,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:00.340" data-start="00:08:00.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but you know even later as they search for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:04.640" data-start="00:08:04.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">these words that as people search for ideas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:07.360" data-start="00:08:07.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">using words that are not necessarily the ones</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:10.320" data-start="00:08:10.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the video, you describing things in other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:11.980" data-start="00:08:11.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ways helps with the search engine</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:13.500" data-start="00:08:13.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">optimization, you're not really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.200" data-start="00:08:15.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's just people finding stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:17.220" data-start="00:08:17.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is amazing. So yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:19.000" data-start="00:08:19.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">please write about the cool things that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.840" data-start="00:08:22.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you've seen and what you'd like to tell other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:25.920" data-start="00:08:25.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people about. Suggesting ideas for talks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:30.040" data-start="00:08:30.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yes. Making talks. All sorts of wonderful</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.220" data-start="00:08:35.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things. OK. Could you elaborate on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:37.080" data-start="00:08:37.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">workflow that goes on in your mind for when</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:38.080" data-start="00:08:38.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">approaching these things?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:40.260" data-start="00:08:40.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Do you start with an Emacs org solution right</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:42.240" data-start="00:08:42.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">off the bat at this point when faced with a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:44.059" data-start="00:08:44.059" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">task? Are there some conscious steps involved</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.200" data-start="00:08:46.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from early ideas to automation of the kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:48.740" data-start="00:08:48.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you just showed? Mostly it starts with,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.740" data-start="00:08:50.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">okay, we got to do this thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:53.720" data-start="00:08:53.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I have this to-do. And sometimes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:55.860" data-start="00:08:55.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like in the week before the conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:57.440" data-start="00:08:57.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have to think, okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:00.740" data-start="00:09:00.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is this a top priority thing that I can do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:01.460" data-start="00:09:01.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">before the conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:03.480" data-start="00:09:03.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or is it something that I can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:05.800" data-start="00:09:05.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I, I, like we can still do the conference</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:08.200" data-start="00:09:08.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">without doing so I have to just postpone it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:09.860" data-start="00:09:09.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">until afterwards? So some prioritization</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:12.160" data-start="00:09:12.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">happens. But a lot of times it's like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:13.140" data-start="00:09:13.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">okay, you know, like this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:14.620" data-start="00:09:14.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there's a thing that I need to do here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:15.920" data-start="00:09:15.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know how to figure it out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:18.840" data-start="00:09:18.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">let me start an org Babble block and start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:19.760" data-start="00:09:19.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sketching out something,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:22.120" data-start="00:09:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, custom function or whatever else,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:23.980" data-start="00:09:23.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then say okay, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.380" data-start="00:09:25.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hey, that looks kind of useful,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:27.180" data-start="00:09:27.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">let me see if I can generalize that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:29.440" data-start="00:09:29.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then let me stick it into the library so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:30.820" data-start="00:09:30.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that I can find it next year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:33.200" data-start="00:09:33.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And that's basically how it goes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:35.500" data-start="00:09:35.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It just goes, it just like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:37.540" data-start="00:09:37.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have a thing that I need to do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:40.080" data-start="00:09:40.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If it's, if I'm going to do it more than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:42.440" data-start="00:09:42.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">once, or actually even if I'm going to do it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:44.640" data-start="00:09:44.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, once I tried to automate it just so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:46.000" data-start="00:09:46.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that I can understand it and,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.700" data-start="00:09:47.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then I can, I can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:50.280" data-start="00:09:50.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can squeeze it into like the 15 minutes I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:54.140" data-start="00:09:54.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually have and I can pause and I can pick</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:56.240" data-start="00:09:56.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it up again and the code is still there and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:57.160" data-start="00:09:57.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">my notes are still there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:00.600" data-start="00:10:00.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then every little bit of the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:03.540" data-start="00:10:03.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">every little step like that builds up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:05.740" data-start="00:10:05.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I can write a short function today,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:07.680" data-start="00:10:07.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then tomorrow when the kid was asleep,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:09.240" data-start="00:10:09.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can write a little bit more of that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:11.160" data-start="00:10:11.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And so it just goes on from there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:14.260" data-start="00:10:14.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then I just stuff that all in there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.660" data-start="00:10:17.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">How well does this approach allow for other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:19.960" data-start="00:10:19.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">organisers to do individual customisations to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:21.500" data-start="00:10:21.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">their liking while still being able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:22.120" data-start="00:10:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">collaborate effectively?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:25.960" data-start="00:10:25.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We've actually split things up fairly neatly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:28.020" data-start="00:10:28.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the sense that for this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:30.620" data-start="00:10:30.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for example, most everyone else was super</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:34.400" data-start="00:10:34.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">busy, so I did all the heavy lifting up until</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.420" data-start="00:10:37.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people were available and then they jumped in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:38.240" data-start="00:10:38.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with the audio normalization.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:39.600" data-start="00:10:39.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thank you very much, Leo,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:41.280" data-start="00:10:41.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for doing all of that stuff and the hosting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:42.840" data-start="00:10:42.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and all the other things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:45.720" data-start="00:10:45.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I tend to do most of the Emacs list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:48.080" data-start="00:10:48.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">fiddling with and the shell scripting and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:49.960" data-start="00:10:49.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stuff like that, aside from the FFmpeg</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:53.100" data-start="00:10:53.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">incantations, which are too arcane for me to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:56.860" data-start="00:10:56.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even think about. And then in the course of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:57.980" data-start="00:10:57.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">watching me deal with like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:59.440" data-start="00:10:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, no, this video is not playing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:01.080" data-start="00:11:01.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then they see the commands that I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:04.240" data-start="00:11:04.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">using, like play and then,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:05.740" data-start="00:11:05.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, play a world,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.760" data-start="00:11:08.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is the ideas of the talk that we were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:10.440" data-start="00:11:10.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">having a hard time with or MPD or whatever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:13.520" data-start="00:11:13.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Then the other organizers kind of just pick</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:15.320" data-start="00:11:15.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that up by osmosis, because We didn't even</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:17.160" data-start="00:11:17.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have time to do dry runs for training this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:20.540" data-start="00:11:20.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year. So it's just there's not much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:22.500" data-start="00:11:22.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">collaboration in the sense that I'm just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:24.400" data-start="00:11:24.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">basically saying, OK, these are the scripts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:25.760" data-start="00:11:25.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that I'm going to write for myself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:28.980" data-start="00:11:28.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And you all figure out how to work with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:34.780" data-start="00:11:34.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What was the hardest problem you encountered</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:37.040" data-start="00:11:37.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in organizing or running the conference this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.540" data-start="00:11:38.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year and how do you deal with it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:40.680" data-start="00:11:40.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Oh, the constant, constant problem with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:43.340" data-start="00:11:43.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">e-mails. There's so many amazing ideas.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:45.660" data-start="00:11:45.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I want to fit into the time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:46.920" data-start="00:11:46.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then afterwards, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.740" data-start="00:11:49.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sasha, do not mess with production the day</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:50.440" data-start="00:11:50.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">before the conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:52.480" data-start="00:11:52.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You're going to save that for after the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:54.440" data-start="00:11:54.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference, right? So that's the hardest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.140" data-start="00:11:56.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">part, is just saying, OK,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:58.620" data-start="00:11:58.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yes, that's an idea. I'm going to put that in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:01.400" data-start="00:12:01.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the inbox. We're going to maybe get to that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.120" data-start="00:12:03.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">next year. But right now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:05.400" data-start="00:12:05.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">these are the things that I need to do in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:07.200" data-start="00:12:07.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">order to get the conference off the ground</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:14.820" data-start="00:12:14.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">reasonably in a reasonable amount of time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:17.140" data-start="00:12:17.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So earlier in the conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:19.240" data-start="00:12:19.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">then I can be like, OK,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:21.900" data-start="00:12:21.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what if we do this? What if we run everything</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:24.360" data-start="00:12:24.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">off a crontab instead of using Emacs tramp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:25.680" data-start="00:12:25.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">timers? Wouldn't that be great?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:28.380" data-start="00:12:28.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then I can explore all those crazy ideas.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:30.440" data-start="00:12:30.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But then as we get closer and closer to date,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:32.440" data-start="00:12:32.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to like just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:34.200" data-start="00:12:34.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">capture the idea and deal with it later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:36.080" data-start="00:12:36.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So that's really, really hard for me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:39.520" data-start="00:12:39.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Year to your growth in attendance and after</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:40.760" data-start="00:12:40.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the conference video watching.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:46.240" data-start="00:12:46.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">The growth, well, first thing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.110" data-start="00:12:51.110" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there is like absolute growth in the kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:53.520" data-start="00:12:53.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the quantity of things that people are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.820" data-start="00:12:56.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sharing. I have a blog post about this that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:59.440" data-start="00:12:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talks about a number of minutes of talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:02.160" data-start="00:13:02.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and it's going up. Last year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:03.740" data-start="00:13:03.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we did 2 tracks because I couldn't fit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:05.460" data-start="00:13:05.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything in 1 day. And this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:07.000" data-start="00:13:07.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we did 2 tracks, but even then,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:08.000" data-start="00:13:08.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything was kind of squished,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.880" data-start="00:13:09.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I was trying to find space in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:11.940" data-start="00:13:11.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">schedule. And if you make it so that next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.500" data-start="00:13:13.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year, we have to figure out 3 tracks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:15.760" data-start="00:13:15.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think We have another host now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:16.840" data-start="00:13:16.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so it might be doable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:19.540" data-start="00:13:19.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is great. Who knows?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:23.600" data-start="00:13:23.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We'll see. And the other interesting thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:25.320" data-start="00:13:25.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that I'm seeing in terms of growth is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:27.440" data-start="00:13:27.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people are starting to refer to the talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:29.800" data-start="00:13:29.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from previous conferences that inspired them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:32.980" data-start="00:13:32.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So the evil plan is working in that it is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:35.000" data-start="00:13:35.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">getting people to get cool stuff out of their</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:37.020" data-start="00:13:37.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">heads and into videos that have like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:39.560" data-start="00:13:39.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">searchable transcripts and that people can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:41.980" data-start="00:13:41.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">refer to as for inspiration and for showing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:42.980" data-start="00:13:42.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other people, hey, look,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:44.060" data-start="00:13:44.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this is what it can do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:46.360" data-start="00:13:46.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So that is fantastic growth.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:49.400" data-start="00:13:49.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">The actual numbers, I'm intense to look at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:51.160" data-start="00:13:51.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the number of simultaneous viewers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:53.860" data-start="00:13:53.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And every so often, it's kind of nice to go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:55.960" data-start="00:13:55.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">through the YouTube stats or whatever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:57.560" data-start="00:13:57.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But that's not so much as a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.120" data-start="00:14:01.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, I don't really keep that in mind as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:05.060" data-start="00:14:05.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">much, just because as long as people are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:07.660" data-start="00:14:07.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">connecting to the ideas and getting stuff out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.120" data-start="00:14:13.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there and being inspired to think around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:16.220" data-start="00:14:16.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more, then it's doing the thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.300" data-start="00:14:21.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Cognizant is working. So where are we now for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:22.640" data-start="00:14:22.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">questions? Ooh, I can actually,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:25.320" data-start="00:14:25.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have ERC here. I can find eventually.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:28.200" data-start="00:14:28.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">1 of my screens has Dev in it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:30.780" data-start="00:14:30.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, here we are. What are the other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:34.900" data-start="00:14:34.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">questions? Probably, Probably an IRC.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:39.120" data-start="00:14:39.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Where's IRC? Dove, dove,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:45.700" data-start="00:14:45.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">dove. I did try to record things more slowly,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:47.200" data-start="00:14:47.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I tried several times,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:49.920" data-start="00:14:49.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I really just speak very quickly when I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:53.300" data-start="00:14:53.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">get excited and Emacs is very fun so it is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:59.960" data-start="00:14:59.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tough oh yes okay so 1 in once yes automated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:04.440" data-start="00:15:04.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">present workflows oh yeah okay so where are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:05.660" data-start="00:15:05.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we now for time? Oh look,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:07.440" data-start="00:15:07.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's 4.30, should we do our closing remarks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.280" data-start="00:15:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or like how are things going over in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:11.840" data-start="00:15:11.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other stream? I should find out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:14.760" data-start="00:15:14.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:16.400" data-start="00:15:16.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other 1, but yeah, I believe that-</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:19.800" data-start="00:15:19.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:22.880" data-start="00:15:22.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, I have managed to zoom through the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:26.660" data-start="00:15:26.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">questions and we can switch over to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:31.240" data-start="00:15:31.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">closing remarks how do we do this yes okay</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:35.060" data-start="00:15:35.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">okay we're gonna oh wait people okay people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:37.580" data-start="00:15:37.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">who wanted to ask questions how do you want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:39.120" data-start="00:15:39.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to do this? Because there are a lot of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:42.040" data-start="00:15:42.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in this 1 here too. You want to go to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:48.820" data-start="00:15:48.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other 1? 0 no, they aren't done yet.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:51.180" data-start="00:15:51.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sorry, I forgot to turn on the con tab</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:52.500" data-start="00:15:52.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because of course I got excited.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:54.840" data-start="00:15:54.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, so Jacob is still answering questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:56.940" data-start="00:15:56.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which means I get to still answer questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:59.880" data-start="00:15:59.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Now I'll try to be quiet and let people in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:01.720" data-start="00:16:01.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the BBB room speak up if we want to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:12.040" data-start="00:16:12.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay that means</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:13.585" data-start="00:16:13.585" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:13.715" data-start="00:16:13.715" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.660" data-start="00:16:15.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:17.500" data-start="00:16:17.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conferences you could have like a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:21.300" data-start="00:16:21.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs starter config just for like the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:26.720" data-start="00:16:26.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference where you have emms playlist and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:29.540" data-start="00:16:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">IRC help cheer function to help get you into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:35.200" data-start="00:16:35.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">IRC into ERC and then the to-do states that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:36.060" data-start="00:16:36.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">was talking about before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:40.200" data-start="00:16:40.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So you can say, I'm watching this 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:41.320" data-start="00:16:41.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I want to re-watch this 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:42.780" data-start="00:16:42.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I'm going to skip it because I'm watching</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:52.820" data-start="00:16:52.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">something else. I used the HyperBowl package</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:55.680" data-start="00:16:55.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to go straight to the web pages to all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:59.600" data-start="00:16:59.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">either pads but you can also have some quick</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:04.540" data-start="00:17:04.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">functions to go into a CRDT buffer hosted</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:07.400" data-start="00:17:07.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">buffer, where all the org mode Etherpad</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:14.220" data-start="00:17:14.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">documents would be. And then that would get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:15.280" data-start="00:17:15.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everybody using Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:17.680" data-start="00:17:17.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then they could all be chatting with each</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:23.480" data-start="00:17:23.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other with CRDT, with controlling Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:25.440" data-start="00:17:25.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know how the sub stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:27.160" data-start="00:17:27.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know if you can get the sub stuff in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:29.720" data-start="00:17:29.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there working, but yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:32.900" data-start="00:17:32.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It could be a good way of getting it all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:34.920" data-start="00:17:34.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">wrapped up together. And also,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:38.040" data-start="00:17:38.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Mkron, if you ever looked at that versus</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:40.800" data-start="00:17:40.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Kron, Mkron is configured in Elisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:43.320" data-start="00:17:43.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Then you can also write some custom functions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:44.620" data-start="00:17:44.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the middle of your Kron.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:46.800" data-start="00:17:46.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So maybe you could make some like conditional</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:48.960" data-start="00:17:48.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things where you can start or stop it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:56.320" data-start="00:17:56.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And like 1 of the differences is if your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:58.860" data-start="00:17:58.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">computer reboots, it can start up and say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:01.780" data-start="00:18:01.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, I'm supposed to run this cron job at this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:04.960" data-start="00:18:04.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time and then just Do the correct thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.100" data-start="00:18:08.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">rather than losing the state Randomly because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:10.440" data-start="00:18:10.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">your computer lost power</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.700" data-start="00:18:15.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:17.640" data-start="00:18:17.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">mcron to my list of things to check out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.640" data-start="00:18:23.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And yeah, we finally remembered to publish</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:25.160" data-start="00:18:25.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all those schedules as org,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:27.540" data-start="00:18:27.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I decided to just spam all the time zones</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:28.520" data-start="00:18:28.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with them, which was fantastic.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:30.480" data-start="00:18:30.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And other people have mentioned that this is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:32.720" data-start="00:18:32.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">useful. We get to figure out how to use this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:35.740" data-start="00:18:35.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to teach people more about what you can do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:36.620" data-start="00:18:36.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with org. As you mentioned,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:40.920" data-start="00:18:40.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">encouraging them to tag the stuff with things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:43.360" data-start="00:18:43.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that they want to attend gives us the ability</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:45.920" data-start="00:18:45.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to set up an agenda view for them that has</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:47.840" data-start="00:18:47.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the talks that are tagged with those tags.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:48.580" data-start="00:18:48.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:49.280" data-start="00:18:49.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:53.880" data-start="00:18:53.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">let's teach org mode and lisp in the process</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:58.120" data-start="00:18:58.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of doing things. Okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:00.860" data-start="00:19:00.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there was a question about any chance of an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:02.720" data-start="00:19:02.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in person EmacsConf again someday.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:05.580" data-start="00:19:05.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I was actually at the very first EMAX</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:11.040" data-start="00:19:11.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Conf, which was 2013 and organized in London</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:12.980" data-start="00:19:12.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to take advantage of the fact that I had a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:15.920" data-start="00:19:15.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">business shift there. It was fantastic being</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:18.760" data-start="00:19:18.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in a room with 100 other people who are all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:19.960" data-start="00:19:19.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">really interested in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:23.400" data-start="00:19:23.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I'm not traveling like any time for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:25.560" data-start="00:19:25.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">foreseeable future, so if other people are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:27.500" data-start="00:19:27.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interested in organizing something like that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:29.260" data-start="00:19:29.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I am totally happy to spread the word.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:31.440" data-start="00:19:31.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It doesn't fit with my current lifestyle,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:32.860" data-start="00:19:32.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but it might fit somebody's.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:37.080" data-start="00:19:37.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know. We're still just here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:38.800" data-start="00:19:38.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I like the virtual conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:41.880" data-start="00:19:41.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I really like the fact that we can bring</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:43.780" data-start="00:19:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">together people from all over the world.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:46.720" data-start="00:19:46.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can take a look at my schedule with all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:47.540" data-start="00:19:47.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time constraints. Okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:49.000" data-start="00:19:49.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I need to put this person in the morning</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:50.720" data-start="00:19:50.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because they're in Australia and I need to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:52.160" data-start="00:19:52.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">put this person in the afternoon because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:56.120" data-start="00:19:56.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they're from Vancouver or from somewhere else</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:58.020" data-start="00:19:58.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the Pacific time zone.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:01.420" data-start="00:20:01.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it's just this breadth of people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:04.140" data-start="00:20:04.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But the other thing that I would love for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:06.220" data-start="00:20:06.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people to start thinking about is if we could</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:08.300" data-start="00:20:08.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have a virtual conference in other time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:11.320" data-start="00:20:11.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">zones, so that's easier for people in Asia</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:12.720" data-start="00:20:12.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Pacific or Europe to attend.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:16.080" data-start="00:20:16.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And as we're getting the hang of this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:17.840" data-start="00:20:17.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this crontab-based thing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:20.140" data-start="00:20:20.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think we might almost be at the point where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:22.320" data-start="00:20:22.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can set it up to run even when I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:24.720" data-start="00:20:24.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sleeping. And then other people can figure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:26.120" data-start="00:20:26.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">out, you know, the exception handling,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:27.780" data-start="00:20:27.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, you know, this talk needs to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:30.420" data-start="00:20:30.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">restarted. Okay, just play it again and scrub</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:31.800" data-start="00:20:31.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">around to find the right part,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:34.500" data-start="00:20:34.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which means we could have replays,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:37.060" data-start="00:20:37.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or we can have like the Asia Pacific</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:39.140" data-start="00:20:39.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Alternate Event that we had the other time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:45.600" data-start="00:20:45.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">where some speakers came back online and did</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:48.840" data-start="00:20:48.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">another Q&A session just for that kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:51.360" data-start="00:20:51.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">event. So those are other cool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:52.960" data-start="00:20:52.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">fun things that would love to be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:57.700" data-start="00:20:57.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">would be great. Satellite events,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:59.480" data-start="00:20:59.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">someone mentioned in the etherpad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:03.280" data-start="00:21:03.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Some people have been organizing these,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:05.020" data-start="00:21:05.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which are great. Basically a bunch of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:07.800" data-start="00:21:07.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">get together in a room or 2 rooms now because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:10.320" data-start="00:21:10.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of the tracks and watch Emacs Conf together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:12.940" data-start="00:21:12.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So if you have a physical meetup or if you'd</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:15.360" data-start="00:21:15.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like to start 1, It's basically,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:17.860" data-start="00:21:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, do this, maybe have stickers if you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:19.900" data-start="00:21:19.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have stickers. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:22.540" data-start="00:21:22.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's just have everyone come over and hang</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:24.440" data-start="00:21:24.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">out and meet people. I don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:27.540" data-start="00:21:27.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's a thing. Specifically how to do it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:29.200" data-start="00:21:29.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have no idea how to organize these things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:32.080" data-start="00:21:32.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But Alain does. So talk to him.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:35.280" data-start="00:21:35.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:37.640" data-start="00:21:37.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">changing it to doing it like 2 times a year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:39.760" data-start="00:21:39.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in max confidence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:44.340" data-start="00:21:44.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:50.080" data-start="00:21:50.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like that. Or the fact that org often has</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:51.860" data-start="00:21:51.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like a full day of talks by itself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:53.800" data-start="00:21:53.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and actually a little bit more than a day</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:55.440" data-start="00:21:55.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">now, because I've been squeezing things into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:58.260" data-start="00:21:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other tracks. There has been some potential</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:00.060" data-start="00:22:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interest in having an org conf.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:03.240" data-start="00:22:03.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It could be a thing. And I'd love to see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:05.760" data-start="00:22:05.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">also, we'd love to experiment with other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:08.900" data-start="00:22:08.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">formats. So there could be a bug hunting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:13.740" data-start="00:22:13.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">session or let's use the breakout rooms to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:15.920" data-start="00:22:15.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">split up into little mentoring groups and see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:18.040" data-start="00:22:18.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">how that works. So lots of things that we can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:21.460" data-start="00:22:21.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do. They've actually finished over in the Gen</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:24.360" data-start="00:22:24.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">track so I don't know if people want to very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:26.480" data-start="00:22:26.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">quickly ask questions here or if we go there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:31.000" data-start="00:22:31.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Leo has come over here instead so okay he's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:32.560" data-start="00:22:32.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">joining over here on the other side.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:35.680" data-start="00:22:35.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, hello.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:38.060" data-start="00:22:38.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:43.260" data-start="00:22:43.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:46.480" data-start="00:22:46.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:48.420" data-start="00:22:48.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hosting anymore. You 2 do a wonderful job,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:49.640" data-start="00:22:49.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I'm happy to just watch.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:53.860" data-start="00:22:53.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:56.520" data-start="00:22:56.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">quick note about any potential suggestions or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:58.080" data-start="00:22:58.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">recommendations for hosting Emacs on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:00.160" data-start="00:23:00.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">satellites. Is that, I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:01.800" data-start="00:23:01.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">given that we are an event centered around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:07.360" data-start="00:23:07.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs, and Emacs is backed by the Free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:09.160" data-start="00:23:09.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Software Foundation, if you do reach out to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:11.180" data-start="00:23:11.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">them, they're usually pretty helpful in terms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:14.340" data-start="00:23:14.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of sending goodies and stickers and such.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:16.880" data-start="00:23:16.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So yeah, if you give them a heads up and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:17.900" data-start="00:23:17.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">reach out to them in advance,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:20.800" data-start="00:23:20.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you might well end up with a whole bunch of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:22.800" data-start="00:23:22.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">swag on your hands that you could give out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:24.860" data-start="00:23:24.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">during the satellite. So that's the thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:35.500" data-start="00:23:35.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:37.640" data-start="00:23:37.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even smoother. I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:39.720" data-start="00:23:39.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you guys always run a nice conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:43.180" data-start="00:23:43.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but it felt smoother this year than ever</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:45.600" data-start="00:23:45.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">before, which listening to your talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:48.480" data-start="00:23:48.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sasha, All the automation that you're doing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:52.400" data-start="00:23:52.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is pretty incredible. So I think it's paying</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:52.740" data-start="00:23:52.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">off.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:58.180" data-start="00:23:58.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:59.240" data-start="00:23:59.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">host say, okay, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:00.720" data-start="00:24:00.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but we've got to wrap up in the next 30</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:02.960" data-start="00:24:02.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">seconds because Sasha's contact is going to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:03.240" data-start="00:24:03.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">go yoink!</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:12.800" data-start="00:24:12.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:15.360" data-start="00:24:15.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">trains running on time shall we say and like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:18.940" data-start="00:24:18.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">cuts off every meeting like the second that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:21.140" data-start="00:24:21.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's supposed to end while somebody's in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:24.860" data-start="00:24:24.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">mid-sentence and I hope we don't get to that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:25.380" data-start="00:24:25.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">point here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:34.560" data-start="00:24:34.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:36.080" data-start="00:24:36.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:37.440" data-start="00:24:37.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Do we have any more questions for MaxConf?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:39.760" data-start="00:24:39.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Although maybe we want to switch to the other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:41.580" data-start="00:24:41.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">room so that we don't struggle too much to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:44.340" data-start="00:24:44.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">find... Organize the stuff on BBB afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:46.360" data-start="00:24:46.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:48.340" data-start="00:24:48.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this is a way to make sure the recording gets</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:54.240" data-start="00:24:54.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">online. But we could do that too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:55.760" data-start="00:24:55.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know. What do y'all think?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:00.580" data-start="00:25:00.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:02.720" data-start="00:25:02.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right now, the development track is currently</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:05.280" data-start="00:25:05.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">streaming this BBB room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:08.760" data-start="00:25:08.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So are we on Jen. So we're going to leave it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:10.760" data-start="00:25:10.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">at is and move into closing remarks if we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:10.840" data-start="00:25:10.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:14.720" data-start="00:25:14.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:17.720" data-start="00:25:17.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">make sure that every 1 of the organizers are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:20.740" data-start="00:25:20.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here. I see Flo here. Let's see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:23.480" data-start="00:25:23.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Corbyn, are you here? Can you maybe speak</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:24.280" data-start="00:25:24.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here on BBB?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:32.860" data-start="00:25:32.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:33.840" data-start="00:25:33.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">out. He did figure it out eventually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:36.260" data-start="00:25:36.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yesterday, so surely today will go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:36.420" data-start="00:25:36.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">swimmingly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:47.420" data-start="00:25:47.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Right. We're getting everything ready,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:47.720" data-start="00:25:47.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">folks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:57.100" data-start="00:25:57.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:58.980" data-start="00:25:58.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">can someone tell him on mumble,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:00.480" data-start="00:26:00.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess? Because I'm not sure if he's...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:05.060" data-start="00:26:05.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Anyway. I also want to say that in the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:06.580" data-start="00:26:06.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference channel, people have been</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:08.880" data-start="00:26:08.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">mentioning that the remote stuff has been</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:10.840" data-start="00:26:10.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">working for them. And I really do like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:12.720" data-start="00:26:12.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">way that this means we can have all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:13.980" data-start="00:26:13.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">videos, you know, all prepared,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:16.020" data-start="00:26:16.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they're captioned, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:17.160" data-start="00:26:17.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We can send them to people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:19.000" data-start="00:26:19.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we can post them on the website afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.540" data-start="00:26:21.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We can bring all these people together who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:23.440" data-start="00:26:23.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">might not be able to convince their companies</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:25.240" data-start="00:26:25.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to fly them somewhere for an Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:29.640" data-start="00:26:29.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference. And also I can do this kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:32.120" data-start="00:26:32.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">prep while having my now seven-year-old still</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:34.480" data-start="00:26:34.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">be able to wander by and whatever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:36.820" data-start="00:26:36.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Travelling is really tough.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:39.220" data-start="00:26:39.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, this is fine. This is cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:40.760" data-start="00:26:40.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I like this. We'll keep doing it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:44.240" data-start="00:26:44.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:46.360" data-start="00:26:46.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference. To do it online,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:48.160" data-start="00:26:48.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So many people can just access it very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:53.760" data-start="00:26:53.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">easily. All right, so we've messaged Colwyn.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:55.760" data-start="00:26:55.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess we can get started with Dalim.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:57.720" data-start="00:26:57.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It should maybe take a minute or 2 to join</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:01.400" data-start="00:27:01.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">us. Should I get started with the Final words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:04.540" data-start="00:27:04.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of the day? All right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:05.740" data-start="00:27:05.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">cool. All right, folks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:08.220" data-start="00:27:08.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we made it. We are at the end of the second</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:10.320" data-start="00:27:10.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">day of EmacsConf, the second of 2 days.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:12.620" data-start="00:27:12.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And the first thing I want to say is first,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:15.360" data-start="00:27:15.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thank you so much for joining us for this new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:19.020" data-start="00:27:19.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">edition. It's personally my fourth year doing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:22.000" data-start="00:27:22.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the EmacsConf, but if you go to emacsconf-org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:24.660" data-start="00:27:24.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and you see the different sessions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:27.380" data-start="00:27:27.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you will realize that the first 1 was in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:29.820" data-start="00:27:29.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">2013, which happens to be 10 years ago.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:33.340" data-start="00:27:33.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we are obviously very excited about all of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:35.420" data-start="00:27:35.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this and we'll tell you perhaps a little more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:38.100" data-start="00:27:38.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about what has changed over the last 10</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:41.760" data-start="00:27:41.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">years. As usual, you know the pre-recorded</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:44.540" data-start="00:27:44.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talks are available right now on the talk</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:46.640" data-start="00:27:46.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">page, at least for all those which were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:48.620" data-start="00:27:48.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">pre-recorded. All the ones which happened on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:50.200" data-start="00:27:50.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the Google button, it will take us a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:52.360" data-start="00:27:52.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bit of time to figure out how to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:54.320" data-start="00:27:54.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">well, when to put them available.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:56.480" data-start="00:27:56.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We need to do subtitles and all this jazzy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:59.060" data-start="00:27:59.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stuff. And we'll also upload them to YouTube</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:01.500" data-start="00:28:01.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and other places once we check the audio,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:02.700" data-start="00:28:02.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">especially for the Q&As.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:05.140" data-start="00:28:05.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We need to clean up some of the audios and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:08.300" data-start="00:28:08.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">make sure that we do not publish any personal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:13.040" data-start="00:28:13.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stuff. All the live talks and Q&As will do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:14.200" data-start="00:28:14.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this in the weeks to come.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:16.680" data-start="00:28:16.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Usually, it takes us about 1 to 2 months to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:17.480" data-start="00:28:17.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">try to get everything out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:18.280" data-start="00:28:18.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but if it takes longer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:19.540" data-start="00:28:19.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's fine. Eventually,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:20.900" data-start="00:28:20.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything will be there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:23.360" data-start="00:28:23.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">The 1 thing we can say is that by EmacsConf</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:26.160" data-start="00:28:26.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">2024, when it comes around,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:28.680" data-start="00:28:28.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything should have been uploaded at some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:30.100" data-start="00:28:30.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">point. So that's a wide window.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:34.340" data-start="00:28:34.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So again, and as usual,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:35.980" data-start="00:28:35.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">feel free to spread the word about EmacsConf</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:38.860" data-start="00:28:38.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because, you know, we've been doing this for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:42.100" data-start="00:28:42.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a while and every year more people show up to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:43.980" data-start="00:28:43.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">these events and more people watch the videos</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:46.620" data-start="00:28:46.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on YouTube and it's wonderful to see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:49.940" data-start="00:28:49.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, our main goal which is to get cool</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:51.400" data-start="00:28:51.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ideas out of the head of people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:53.860" data-start="00:28:53.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">shared and viewed by so many people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:56.660" data-start="00:28:56.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's always amazing. Also,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:58.180" data-start="00:28:58.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I would like to ask you personally,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:59.700" data-start="00:28:59.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what did you like about this conference?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:01.780" data-start="00:29:01.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Or what do you like, what do you feel was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:02.640" data-start="00:29:02.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">better than last year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:05.440" data-start="00:29:05.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because the feedback is very useful to us.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:07.340" data-start="00:29:07.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We'd also like to know if you've got any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:08.940" data-start="00:29:08.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ideas for making things even better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:11.680" data-start="00:29:11.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And we've got a general conference discussion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:13.900" data-start="00:29:13.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">slash notes slash community message board,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:14.920" data-start="00:29:14.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is pad.emaxconf.org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:19.280" data-start="00:29:19.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">slash 2023. And you can also just mention</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:22.120" data-start="00:29:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">them. You know, we might open this room for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:24.080" data-start="00:29:24.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people to join us and chat,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:25.480" data-start="00:29:25.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">although Flowy and myself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:27.340" data-start="00:29:27.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">your up team, needs to go to bed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:28.480" data-start="00:29:28.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So please be mindful of this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:29.760" data-start="00:29:29.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If you ask a very interesting question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:32.260" data-start="00:29:32.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We will both have to make sacrifices to stay</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:34.300" data-start="00:29:34.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a while longer because you're too damn</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:38.620" data-start="00:29:38.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interesting. Now we'd like to move into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:41.000" data-start="00:29:41.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thanking all the people who make EmacsConf</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:42.660" data-start="00:29:42.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">possible. And obviously,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:45.060" data-start="00:29:45.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">first, we have to thank all the speakers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:46.960" data-start="00:29:46.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all the volunteers, the participants,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:49.960" data-start="00:29:49.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and to all those other people in our lives</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:51.660" data-start="00:29:51.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">who make it possible through time and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:53.920" data-start="00:29:53.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">support, thank you so much for allowing us to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:55.760" data-start="00:29:55.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">run EmacsCount. It wouldn't happen without</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:57.160" data-start="00:29:57.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you, and without us, I suppose,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:58.540" data-start="00:29:58.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because we are included in this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:01.720" data-start="00:30:01.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">This year's conference hosts are myself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:03.400" data-start="00:30:03.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Leo Vivier, Amine Bendali,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:05.860" data-start="00:30:05.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and joining our team of hosts for the first</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:07.080" data-start="00:30:07.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time this year, Flobby Coder.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:08.200" data-start="00:30:08.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thank you so much, Flobby.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:09.340" data-start="00:30:09.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You did a wonderful job.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:11.600" data-start="00:30:11.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's right there. No, dammit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:15.180" data-start="00:30:15.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">No, I can't. I can never remember if BBB is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.120" data-start="00:30:17.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">flipping stuff, so either 1 of those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:19.600" data-start="00:30:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">directions. The streams this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:21.760" data-start="00:30:21.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as last year, were managed by Sasha Schwa,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:24.400" data-start="00:30:24.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">obviously. And the check-ins by Flobby Coder,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:27.400" data-start="00:30:27.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I'm in with Miscellaneous running around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:30.020" data-start="00:30:30.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">by Corwin Brust, who will be joining us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:32.000" data-start="00:30:32.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">momentarily. Apparently,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:34.920" data-start="00:30:34.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all his USB failed, so he will be with us as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:38.140" data-start="00:30:38.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:41.040" data-start="00:30:41.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Do I have audio now? Alright,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:42.380" data-start="00:30:42.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'll go to work on my camera.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:43.820" data-start="00:30:43.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Hi. Hello?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:45.540" data-start="00:30:45.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:46.640" data-start="00:30:46.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, I'll keep going.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:49.120" data-start="00:30:49.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I also need to thank, well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:51.100" data-start="00:30:51.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">need, no, I want to thank all the captioning</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:53.040" data-start="00:30:53.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">volunteers, the captioners as we call them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:54.380" data-start="00:30:54.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You've got Daniel Molina,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:57.160" data-start="00:30:57.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Bala Ramadoui, Durai, sorry,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:59.140" data-start="00:30:59.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Bhavin Gandhi, Amin Zayed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:02.220" data-start="00:31:02.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yoni Rapkin, who presented 1 of the talk</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:04.240" data-start="00:31:04.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">earlier, Daniel Alejandro Tapia,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:06.060" data-start="00:31:06.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Hannah Miller, Ken Huang,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:07.200" data-start="00:31:07.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Jean-Christophe Ellary,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:10.440" data-start="00:31:10.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and James Howell. Also thanking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:11.320" data-start="00:31:11.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Jean-Christophe Ellary,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:13.220" data-start="00:31:13.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Colwyn, Quiliro, Kern,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:15.420" data-start="00:31:15.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and Amin Bendali for helping with the early</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:18.120" data-start="00:31:18.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">acceptance process. Sasha,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:21.180" data-start="00:31:21.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do I read this 1? It's weird to think myself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:22.740" data-start="00:31:22.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm gonna pat myself on the back,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:24.780" data-start="00:31:24.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess. Go on, Sasha.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:26.720" data-start="00:31:26.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'll do it. I'll do it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:29.160" data-start="00:31:29.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's fine. Thanks to myself for fiddling with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:30.900" data-start="00:31:30.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the audio to get things nicely synced,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:34.120" data-start="00:31:34.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And thanks to myself again and other people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:36.840" data-start="00:31:36.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we kept the mailing list free from spam.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:39.320" data-start="00:31:39.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Because I'm not sure what happened since May,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:41.820" data-start="00:31:41.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but we've been receiving about 3 to 4 spam</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:44.760" data-start="00:31:44.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">emails. And it just happened all of a sudden,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:46.400" data-start="00:31:46.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I was really weirded out by this process.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:51.380" data-start="00:31:51.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Where was I? OK, thanks to Andrew Ducurty for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:53.000" data-start="00:31:53.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">helping with whisper processing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:55.840" data-start="00:31:55.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thanks to Ashki Ghekwad for design</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:57.540" data-start="00:31:57.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">contribution. Thanks to Yoshin,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:59.900" data-start="00:31:59.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">our grand changro for all the music that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:01.840" data-start="00:32:01.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we've been using for the last 3 years at this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:04.740" data-start="00:32:04.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">point, I think. Also thanks to Rye for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:06.820" data-start="00:32:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">server that we're using for OBS streaming and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:07.720" data-start="00:32:07.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for processing videos.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:10.440" data-start="00:32:10.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And also thanks to the free software</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:12.540" data-start="00:32:12.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">foundation for obviously Emacs itself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:14.340" data-start="00:32:14.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the mailing list that we use,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:15.340" data-start="00:32:15.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and the media.emacsconf-org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:19.540" data-start="00:32:19.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">server where all of the presentations are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:22.200" data-start="00:32:22.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">currently hosted. We'd also like to thank</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:23.520" data-start="00:32:23.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">BigBlueButton, Etherpad,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:25.920" data-start="00:32:25.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">IceCast, OBS, The Lounge,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:28.480" data-start="00:32:28.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Libre.chat, FFmpeg, OpenAI,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:31.300" data-start="00:32:31.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Whisper, the E-N-E-S force alignment tool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:34.640" data-start="00:32:34.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Site Transfer, SubD, and contributors to all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:36.900" data-start="00:32:36.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of the tools and services we used in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:37.600" data-start="00:32:37.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">making of this conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:39.520" data-start="00:32:39.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And obviously, all of them are free,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:41.480" data-start="00:32:41.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as Sasha obviously told you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:44.080" data-start="00:32:44.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and as we will be telling you again for many</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:47.700" data-start="00:32:47.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">years to come. We'd also like again to thank</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:49.780" data-start="00:32:49.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everyone for attending the conference and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:51.820" data-start="00:32:51.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">making EmacsConf what it is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:54.000" data-start="00:32:54.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And for those who were on the general track,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:56.540" data-start="00:32:56.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know Sasha did it in parallel to the last</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:58.980" data-start="00:32:58.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talk we had today. She did a wonderful talk</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:01.680" data-start="00:33:01.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on how EmacsConf is actually run.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:05.620" data-start="00:33:05.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So there's her talk, there's also an entire</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:07.760" data-start="00:33:07.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">page on our wiki about the infrastructure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:09.920" data-start="00:33:09.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that we use. So if you're interested,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:11.880" data-start="00:33:11.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">especially in running an event of your own,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:14.340" data-start="00:33:14.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you've got as much information as you want,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:15.600" data-start="00:33:15.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and as Sacha probably told you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:17.600" data-start="00:33:17.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we are available for sharing the knowledge</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:20.820" data-start="00:33:20.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and enabling your dreams of making a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:24.220" data-start="00:33:24.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference. Amint, do you want to take it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:25.680" data-start="00:33:25.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">over with the fiscal sponsorship</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:29.320" data-start="00:33:29.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:30.980" data-start="00:33:30.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Can you please scroll down a little bit?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:33.520" data-start="00:33:33.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Whoever is kindly sharing the screen.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:34.460" data-start="00:33:34.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:36.140" data-start="00:33:36.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I was scrolling on my end.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:36.360" data-start="00:33:36.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:41.380" data-start="00:33:41.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:43.080" data-start="00:33:43.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to finally get into this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:45.220" data-start="00:33:45.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And this is something that we've been kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:46.960" data-start="00:33:46.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hoping to get worked out for a long time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:48.280" data-start="00:33:48.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually and it's finally here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:52.900" data-start="00:33:52.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So people might have already seen this but as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:57.620" data-start="00:33:57.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of this last Thursday we're actually fiscally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:59.440" data-start="00:33:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sponsored by the Free Software Foundation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:03.480" data-start="00:34:03.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we joined their Working Together for Free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:07.720" data-start="00:34:07.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Software program. And DFSF published the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:08.540" data-start="00:34:08.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">announcement on their website.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:11.000" data-start="00:34:11.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You're welcome to go and check it out there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:14.060" data-start="00:34:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But I just want to quickly get into a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:17.900" data-start="00:34:17.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bit about what it means and some of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:21.719" data-start="00:34:21.719" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">benefits, I guess. So as part of this working</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:23.300" data-start="00:34:23.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">together for a free software fund,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:26.580" data-start="00:34:26.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the FSF provides fiscal sponsorship for a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:29.060" data-start="00:34:29.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">number of important free software and new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:30.900" data-start="00:34:30.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">technical projects, such as the new tool</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:33.679" data-start="00:34:33.679" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">chain and Replicant, which is a free fork of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:36.340" data-start="00:34:36.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Android. And starting this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:38.360" data-start="00:34:38.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">EmacsConf has joined the program as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:40.960" data-start="00:34:40.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And as a fiscal sponsor,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:43.520" data-start="00:34:43.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">DFSF can assist us by providing services</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:46.500" data-start="00:34:46.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">required by a legal entity,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:49.300" data-start="00:34:49.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like signing contracts and receiving and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:53.080" data-start="00:34:53.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">processing payments. So to provide some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:56.820" data-start="00:34:56.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">context, eMAXConf is and always has been an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:58.740" data-start="00:34:58.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">independent initiative organized by a very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:59.700" data-start="00:34:59.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">small number of people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:02.120" data-start="00:35:02.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a small team of people without any corporate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:05.980" data-start="00:35:05.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sponsors. And that's important in part</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:08.880" data-start="00:35:08.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because I believe part of our message is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:11.860" data-start="00:35:11.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we want to showcase that everybody can do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:14.200" data-start="00:35:14.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this and organize a conference like this no</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:17.200" data-start="00:35:17.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">matter how small your team is and how modest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:19.540" data-start="00:35:19.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">your resources are, which we will actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:21.260" data-start="00:35:21.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">get into a little bit later in the closing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:25.760" data-start="00:35:25.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">remarks. But yeah, so now having the FSF as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:27.780" data-start="00:35:27.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">our fiscal sponsor, we're in a better</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:30.200" data-start="00:35:30.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">position to accept donations as 1 potential</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:33.360" data-start="00:35:33.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">way to contribute or help the conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:36.360" data-start="00:35:36.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And just to clarify, we're currently not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:39.360" data-start="00:35:39.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">struggling at all to cover these costs of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:41.000" data-start="00:35:41.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">servers and such, which we will get into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:44.720" data-start="00:35:44.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">again. But this is just 1 extra avenue if</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:46.720" data-start="00:35:46.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people are feeling generous and would like to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:47.880" data-start="00:35:47.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">help, it's much appreciated.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:54.400" data-start="00:35:54.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And yeah, so having a 501c3 nonprofit like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:57.160" data-start="00:35:57.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the FSF, as a fiscal sponsor,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:00.060" data-start="00:36:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">many donors will receive tax benefits that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:02.180" data-start="00:36:02.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they otherwise wouldn't receive if they were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:04.540" data-start="00:36:04.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to like donate to like individuals running a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:07.500" data-start="00:36:07.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">project directly. And also donors can know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:08.860" data-start="00:36:08.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that, you know, the funds that they're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:10.920" data-start="00:36:10.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">donating are being handled by an accountable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:14.060" data-start="00:36:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">institution. And also importantly,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:16.020" data-start="00:36:16.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">when donating through the FSF,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:19.960" data-start="00:36:19.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Let's see, text changing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:23.320" data-start="00:36:23.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, yeah. People can donate without having</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:24.600" data-start="00:36:24.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to run any non-free JavaScript,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:27.380" data-start="00:36:27.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is nice. Because unfortunately,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:29.440" data-start="00:36:29.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">usually these days on the web when you do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:30.600" data-start="00:36:30.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">want to buy something or spend money,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:31.840" data-start="00:36:31.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you have to run non-free JavaScript,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:35.020" data-start="00:36:35.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which isn't the case when donating through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:37.720" data-start="00:36:37.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the FSF. Yeah, so we just joined,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:39.000" data-start="00:36:39.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as I said, on Thursday,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:43.020" data-start="00:36:43.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and we've already received our very first</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:45.400" data-start="00:36:45.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">donation, so we'd like to extend our thanks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:46.800" data-start="00:36:46.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and gratitude to Scott Ranby,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:49.480" data-start="00:36:49.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">who is actually our first ever kind donor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:51.820" data-start="00:36:51.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">They agreed to be thanked publicly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:55.900" data-start="00:36:55.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So thank you, Scott. And yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:57.040" data-start="00:36:57.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so this is a recent development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:59.800" data-start="00:36:59.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And we plan to add much more information and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:01.880" data-start="00:37:01.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">details about this whole situation to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:04.200" data-start="00:37:04.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">wiki, including links to the announcements,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:06.280" data-start="00:37:06.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">some more information about the program,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:08.040" data-start="00:37:08.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and our donation page of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:12.880" data-start="00:37:12.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the new future. And in the meantime I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:15.080" data-start="00:37:15.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">also happy to help answer any questions as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:17.900" data-start="00:37:17.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">best as I can, So feel free to ping me on IRC</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:19.640" data-start="00:37:19.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or just email me at bandalia.guinard.org.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:26.140" data-start="00:37:26.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:29.060" data-start="00:37:29.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">point out 1 question that we know people have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:32.680" data-start="00:37:32.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is just about how much of the money goes to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:35.660" data-start="00:37:35.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">FSF when you make a contribution through the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:36.860" data-start="00:37:36.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">fund toward EmacsConf?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:40.560" data-start="00:37:40.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:44.540" data-start="00:37:44.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is that it's 10%, which is for supporting the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:46.720" data-start="00:37:46.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">operation of the Working Together program and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:48.800" data-start="00:37:48.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">also the shared GNU infrastructure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:52.040" data-start="00:37:52.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which we as EmacsConf use and depend on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:54.920" data-start="00:37:54.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">along with several hundred GNU packages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:59.860" data-start="00:37:59.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, yeah, and it covers things like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:03.060" data-start="00:38:03.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">transaction costs that the FSF's payment</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:04.000" data-start="00:38:04.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">processor charges?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:10.040" data-start="00:38:10.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:12.280" data-start="00:38:12.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a real fair price. I have some experience</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:15.300" data-start="00:38:15.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with working with payment processing and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:19.120" data-start="00:38:19.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things like this and like 10% that's a that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:22.440" data-start="00:38:22.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">something that you see in Bigger businesses</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:25.900" data-start="00:38:25.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that have a model around making money on that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:29.160" data-start="00:38:29.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Transaction so to be able to do that as a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:31.400" data-start="00:38:31.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">nonprofit. We're taking advantage of a really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:32.400" data-start="00:38:32.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">awesome thing there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:35.860" data-start="00:38:35.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:36.820" data-start="00:38:36.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just for a quick plug,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:38.860" data-start="00:38:38.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the FSF is actually doing an end of year</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:41.780" data-start="00:38:41.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">fundraiser right now. So if you want to go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:44.220" data-start="00:38:44.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">donate to them, or if you donate to us,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:47.760" data-start="00:38:47.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a part of it will go to the FSF to support</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:51.400" data-start="00:38:51.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">their work on free software,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:53.000" data-start="00:38:53.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">helping grow the movement,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:56.000" data-start="00:38:56.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and spread the word about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:02.080" data-start="00:39:02.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, thank you. And I guess now is a good time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:05.380" data-start="00:39:05.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for me to pass the baton to the next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:08.160" data-start="00:39:08.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">organizer who wants to talk about some of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:11.040" data-start="00:39:11.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">specs of the servers that we use right now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:14.720" data-start="00:39:14.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:16.560" data-start="00:39:16.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">detail. I just put it in there in case people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:19.280" data-start="00:39:19.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">were curious about how much it takes to run</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:20.740" data-start="00:39:20.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">something like this. Not a lot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:22.900" data-start="00:39:22.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's just really, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:26.100" data-start="00:39:26.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">2 days of computing is not that expensive in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:29.060" data-start="00:39:29.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">today's world, and all the rest is just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:32.220" data-start="00:39:32.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">volunteer time and a heck of a lot of Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:34.080" data-start="00:39:34.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">lists as previously discussed in our</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:41.020" data-start="00:39:41.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">presentation. So, we'll just skip through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:42.280" data-start="00:39:42.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that instead of reading all of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:43.580" data-start="00:39:43.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Unless people are specifically curious,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:44.640" data-start="00:39:44.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you can ask questions afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:46.320" data-start="00:39:46.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But yes, happy birthday,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:49.200" data-start="00:39:49.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">EmacsConf, and here's another wonderful 10</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:49.440" data-start="00:39:49.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">years.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:56.820" data-start="00:39:56.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:58.820" data-start="00:39:58.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">closing remarks. Have I forgotten anything?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:00.060" data-start="00:40:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We haven't had Flowy yet,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:03.340" data-start="00:40:03.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I believe. Sorry for putting you on the spot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:03.560" data-start="00:40:03.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">again.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:07.940" data-start="00:40:07.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:09.280" data-start="00:40:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what you have already said.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:12.560" data-start="00:40:12.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So thank everybody to make a presentation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:15.360" data-start="00:40:15.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to do anything here. Thanks for all of you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:16.880" data-start="00:40:16.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that I could be a part of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:17.880" data-start="00:40:17.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have to admit it also.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:21.020" data-start="00:40:21.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So thank you all. And yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:22.540" data-start="00:40:22.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">nothing to say probably.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:25.560" data-start="00:40:25.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:27.260" data-start="00:40:27.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for, you know, stepping in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:29.340" data-start="00:40:29.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We kind of like throw this on you like at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:31.560" data-start="00:40:31.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">last second, but Flowy actually stepped in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:33.840" data-start="00:40:33.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and hosted graciously a couple of the talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:34.920" data-start="00:40:34.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on the Dev track today.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:36.880" data-start="00:40:36.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, which I think went very well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:38.480" data-start="00:40:38.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So congrats and thank you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:39.720" data-start="00:40:39.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:41.420" data-start="00:40:41.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:43.420" data-start="00:40:43.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We kindly asked Floey yesterday because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:44.540" data-start="00:40:44.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything was going so well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:45.520" data-start="00:40:45.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And now we can say it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:46.840" data-start="00:40:46.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, I can say things are going well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:48.760" data-start="00:40:48.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Usually it's a bad thing when you're doing a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:50.500" data-start="00:40:50.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">broadcast to say things are going well right</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:53.080" data-start="00:40:53.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">now because it tends to backfires at some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:56.980" data-start="00:40:56.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:58.900" data-start="00:40:58.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That, that's planning.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:02.420" data-start="00:41:02.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:04.840" data-start="00:41:04.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Flowy didn't sleep all that much because we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:06.500" data-start="00:41:06.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tasked him with hosting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:08.440" data-start="00:41:08.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so he was turning in his bed all night</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:09.960" data-start="00:41:09.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thinking, oh, I'm going to host MaxCons.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:13.660" data-start="00:41:13.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But Flowy, you did a wonderful job and I am</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:15.720" data-start="00:41:15.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so glad that not only you were able to join</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:17.760" data-start="00:41:17.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">us again this year, but that also you were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:19.760" data-start="00:41:19.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">able to host. Because last year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:20.900" data-start="00:41:20.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">had we asked you to host,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:21.820" data-start="00:41:21.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you would have said no.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:25.120" data-start="00:41:25.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">First time we asked you this year was yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:27.100" data-start="00:41:27.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but give me some time to think about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:30.100" data-start="00:41:30.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:32.780" data-start="00:41:32.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:33.560" data-start="00:41:33.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it will be yes directly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:38.000" data-start="00:41:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">All right, so since we are at the end of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:41.140" data-start="00:41:41.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thankings and I did say europe team needs to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:43.580" data-start="00:41:43.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">go to bed in about 12 minutes that leaves us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:45.940" data-start="00:41:45.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about 12 minutes to try to answer as many</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:47.840" data-start="00:41:47.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">points as you'd like to raise.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:50.640" data-start="00:41:50.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sasha, I think the Q&A room is still open</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:52.680" data-start="00:41:52.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because we are technically still in the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:53.560" data-start="00:41:53.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference room currently.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:56.480" data-start="00:41:56.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, if you... We're going to put the link</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:57.840" data-start="00:41:57.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">again if you need to find it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:59.800" data-start="00:41:59.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Otherwise, scroll up and find the 1 on there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:04.400" data-start="00:42:04.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:07.240" data-start="00:42:07.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Maybe. I will go figure this out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:08.600" data-start="00:42:08.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Keep talking in the background.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:12.160" data-start="00:42:12.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:13.740" data-start="00:42:13.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">background, it would be nice if you could</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:14.640" data-start="00:42:14.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">join us and ask questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:15.900" data-start="00:42:15.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">either by dropping them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:18.080" data-start="00:42:18.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I see plenty of people have already left some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:19.440" data-start="00:42:19.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">comments. We have 2 places,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:21.820" data-start="00:42:21.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right now it's more about a chitchatting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:23.000" data-start="00:42:23.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about the end of the conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:24.160" data-start="00:42:24.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If you've got general feedback,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:26.160" data-start="00:42:26.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we've mentioned it at the top,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:28.580" data-start="00:42:28.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but if you want to write your general</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:30.920" data-start="00:42:30.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">feedback here, it will find its way at some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:32.960" data-start="00:42:32.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">point in the years of the relevant people who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:33.920" data-start="00:42:33.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">can make things change.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:35.920" data-start="00:42:35.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So don't worry too much about where you put</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:37.120" data-start="00:42:37.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">your feedback, it'll be fine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:40.240" data-start="00:42:40.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But now, how about we start reading some of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:42.700" data-start="00:42:42.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the notes that people have said or questions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:43.080" data-start="00:42:43.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:47.094" data-start="00:42:47.094" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:48.460" data-start="00:42:48.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Do you have any stats on how many people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:52.200" data-start="00:42:52.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">watched for an IRC and BBB over the 2 days?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:58.140" data-start="00:42:58.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:00.040" data-start="00:43:00.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which I can answer more readily,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:03.760" data-start="00:43:03.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think yesterday we were averaging around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:08.120" data-start="00:43:08.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">240, 250 concurrent viewers at a time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:12.760" data-start="00:43:12.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And today, so today it varied.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:16.300" data-start="00:43:16.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think the maximum was again like around 200</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:19.600" data-start="00:43:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to 20-ish with the average being more around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:24.960" data-start="00:43:24.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">180, 190 viewers. We've had a lot of hits to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:28.700" data-start="00:43:28.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the actual web pages for the Emacs Conf Wiki</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:31.720" data-start="00:43:31.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or the pad, which are all being served on 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:34.740" data-start="00:43:34.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">server. I pulled some numbers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:36.140" data-start="00:43:36.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm not sure if they're correct.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:38.480" data-start="00:43:38.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I'm like a little bit hesitant to discuss</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:41.760" data-start="00:43:41.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">them. Safe to say they're easily in the tens</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:44.380" data-start="00:43:44.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of thousands, maybe in the hundreds of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:47.960" data-start="00:43:47.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thousands of total visits over the past,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:52.540" data-start="00:43:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:53.940" data-start="00:43:53.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:57.040" data-start="00:43:57.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">okay. So, yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:59.240" data-start="00:43:59.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">say. But yeah, easily in the thousands or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:01.860" data-start="00:44:01.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:02.980" data-start="00:44:02.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:04.080" data-start="00:44:04.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know how many you are,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:05.340" data-start="00:44:05.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you do not need exact numbers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:08.720" data-start="00:44:08.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:11.000" data-start="00:44:11.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so I don't have the exact numbers but I guess</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:13.260" data-start="00:44:13.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's always kind of fun to maybe try to pull</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:15.700" data-start="00:44:15.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">some numbers and look at it that way but you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:18.080" data-start="00:44:18.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">know of course we all know that what we do,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:19.720" data-start="00:44:19.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">every single person counts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:24.320" data-start="00:44:24.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I don't know, trying to look at turning</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:27.900" data-start="00:44:27.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people into abstract numbers isn't,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:30.480" data-start="00:44:30.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know, inspiring to me very much,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:31.840" data-start="00:44:31.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but it's cool. So.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:36.020" data-start="00:44:36.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:37.640" data-start="00:44:37.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">questions. So Sasha is now in the viewport</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:39.480" data-start="00:44:39.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">where we can see some questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:41.200" data-start="00:44:41.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So how about we take some of them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:43.900" data-start="00:44:43.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can read them or if anyone of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:45.020" data-start="00:44:45.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">organizers wants to do this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:46.720" data-start="00:44:46.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">feel free, especially those who haven't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:48.040" data-start="00:44:48.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talked to a whole lot this year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:53.000" data-start="00:44:53.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Cohen, do you want to try it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:54.760" data-start="00:44:54.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:59.220" data-start="00:44:59.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I did and I'm done. I took the first</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:01.120" data-start="00:45:01.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">question, I picked the bottom question off</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:02.920" data-start="00:45:02.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the list because I knew exactly who it was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:05.140" data-start="00:45:05.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">going for. The person who wants to answer or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:07.080" data-start="00:45:07.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">direct the next question is welcome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:10.520" data-start="00:45:10.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sorry, I could have given a little better</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:11.400" data-start="00:45:11.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stage direction there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:13.660" data-start="00:45:13.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm not prepared to answer how many emaxers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:16.080" data-start="00:45:16.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">are from Nordic countries other than to say</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:17.680" data-start="00:45:17.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">definitely yes and several.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:21.900" data-start="00:45:21.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I haven't looked close enough at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:22.580" data-start="00:45:22.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">suggestion yet.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:27.280" data-start="00:45:27.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:30.020" data-start="00:45:30.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the BBB limitations. So it's the second 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:31.560" data-start="00:45:31.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the red 1. Small suggestion,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:33.120" data-start="00:45:33.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">likely out of your control,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:36.340" data-start="00:45:36.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but anyway, the blue button seems to work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:38.300" data-start="00:45:38.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">very well, but it would be a bit more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:40.680" data-start="00:45:40.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">watchable if the webcam frames were lined up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:42.660" data-start="00:45:42.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">vertically on 1 side, because it would allow</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:44.760" data-start="00:45:44.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the screen share frames to be larger and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:47.080" data-start="00:45:47.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">would make much better use of the viewable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:49.740" data-start="00:45:49.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">space. Maybe worth a bug report to upstream.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:53.080" data-start="00:45:53.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I agree, BBB has been really good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:54.400" data-start="00:45:54.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Amine, did you want to say something?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:55.120" data-start="00:45:55.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:56.760" data-start="00:45:56.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:56.960" data-start="00:45:56.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the end.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:59.960" data-start="00:45:59.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:04.440" data-start="00:46:04.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">us. It allows us to have many parallel rooms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:07.700" data-start="00:46:07.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which are all recording service side at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:09.920" data-start="00:46:09.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">same time. And it's wonderful for us because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:11.260" data-start="00:46:11.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we can gather. At some point,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:13.520" data-start="00:46:13.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think last year, we had 4 concurrent talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:15.220" data-start="00:46:15.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">being recorded because people were just so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:17.040" data-start="00:46:17.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interested in what was going on in rooms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:19.040" data-start="00:46:19.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And you know, we only,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:21.660" data-start="00:46:21.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like this year, the co-organizers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:23.720" data-start="00:46:23.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's the 5 people you see in a room</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:26.760" data-start="00:46:26.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">currently. And if we had all of us to be in a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:28.440" data-start="00:46:28.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">separate room, having to record on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:29.340" data-start="00:46:29.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">machine, it wouldn't work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:32.120" data-start="00:46:32.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we are able to demultiply the amount of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:33.560" data-start="00:46:33.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">content that we produce thanks to BBB,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:37.540" data-start="00:46:37.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but sadly, we are also quite limited by the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:39.560" data-start="00:46:39.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interface of BBB. Another problem that is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:43.860" data-start="00:46:43.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">dear to me is that audio tends to be fairly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:46.240" data-start="00:46:46.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bad at some points depending on the speakers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:50.080" data-start="00:46:50.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because BBB has really funky audio correction</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:51.500" data-start="00:46:51.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stuff going in the background,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:52.540" data-start="00:46:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and sometimes it works,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:53.760" data-start="00:46:53.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sometimes it doesn't work,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:55.480" data-start="00:46:55.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and especially on my machine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:58.320" data-start="00:46:58.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the specs are above in the document if you're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:02.040" data-start="00:47:02.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interested, but BBB and OBS do not play well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:04.640" data-start="00:47:04.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">at all. You might have heard me speaking with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:06.120" data-start="00:47:06.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">some clicks in my voice at some point.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:07.600" data-start="00:47:07.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's another problem of BBB.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:09.240" data-start="00:47:09.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Anyway, I mean, you wanted to add something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:09.720" data-start="00:47:09.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:14.060" data-start="00:47:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:17.220" data-start="00:47:17.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">emphasize the problems with audio on BBB</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:19.860" data-start="00:47:19.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sometimes, but about the specific suggestion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:22.540" data-start="00:47:22.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here of like lighting things up at least</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:24.780" data-start="00:47:24.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">visually, I think that's like much more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:26.940" data-start="00:47:26.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">doable even if you don't open a bug upstream.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:30.140" data-start="00:47:30.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I believe the Free Software Foundation for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:31.360" data-start="00:47:31.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">their LibrePlanet conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:33.740" data-start="00:47:33.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">either last year or the year before,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:36.500" data-start="00:47:36.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they had some custom, like clients signed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:38.000" data-start="00:47:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">into browser, custom CSS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:40.520" data-start="00:47:40.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">where it would do exactly something like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:44.440" data-start="00:47:44.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that. It would like enlarge the shared screen</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:46.840" data-start="00:47:46.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on the 1 side and then stack up all of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:48.000" data-start="00:47:48.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">webcam feeds on 1 side.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:50.280" data-start="00:47:50.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we might be able to use something like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:50.440" data-start="00:47:50.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:53.040" data-start="00:47:53.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:56.760" data-start="00:47:56.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And now I feel like a heel as soon as I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:59.340" data-start="00:47:59.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">opened my mouth, because I think I almost get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:01.480" data-start="00:48:01.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the sense Floyd wants to jump in here and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:03.680" data-start="00:48:03.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we're all talking, everyone except Sasha who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:06.420" data-start="00:48:06.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually wrote OBS, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:10.680" data-start="00:48:10.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the OBS WebSocket plugin that is probably the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:12.100" data-start="00:48:12.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">answer to all the different questions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:13.360" data-start="00:48:13.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everyone is bringing up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:15.060" data-start="00:48:15.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I guess I'll leave my input at that And</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:16.680" data-start="00:48:16.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Chloe, did you have anything to say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:17.720" data-start="00:48:17.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or can we pick on Sasha?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:20.460" data-start="00:48:20.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:25.120" data-start="00:48:25.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:27.260" data-start="00:48:27.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the protocol change, because I think the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:29.040" data-start="00:48:29.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">protocol change was from 4 to 5.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:32.080" data-start="00:48:32.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's 1 of those things that I haven't gotten</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:35.280" data-start="00:48:35.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:37.120" data-start="00:48:37.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:41.240" data-start="00:48:41.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">CSS. So if I can tinker with the CSS or if</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:44.160" data-start="00:48:44.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">somebody else would like to volunteer to move</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:45.720" data-start="00:48:45.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things around, then that would be fantastic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:48.040" data-start="00:48:48.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because front-end should be things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:53.480" data-start="00:48:53.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Okay, oh, what order of magnitude hours do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:55.360" data-start="00:48:55.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you each of you think you devote to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:58.260" data-start="00:48:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference yearly? I have I expected someone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:59.540" data-start="00:48:59.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">would ask this question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:07.840" data-start="00:49:07.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I have I have my the past 11 years of time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:11.000" data-start="00:49:11.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">analysis. This is my Emacs category,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:12.780" data-start="00:49:12.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so it also includes Emacs news.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:15.660" data-start="00:49:15.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So this is my Emacs hours by month and year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:17.920" data-start="00:49:17.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So you can see last year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:21.140" data-start="00:49:21.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it spiked up a lot. But this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:23.100" data-start="00:49:23.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it has taken less time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:26.260" data-start="00:49:26.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So last month, it was about 93 hours.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:29.020" data-start="00:49:29.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And the month before that was just about 87</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:31.400" data-start="00:49:31.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hours of prep. And this actually includes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:33.240" data-start="00:49:33.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things like captioning and,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:36.260" data-start="00:49:36.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and coordination. And then you can see a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:38.560" data-start="00:49:38.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">little bit of time here like the EMAX news</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:42.040" data-start="00:49:42.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and and harvesting q&a and adding chapter</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:43.780" data-start="00:49:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">index indices and things like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:47.960" data-start="00:49:47.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I, I like it, it's it's my form of fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:50.540" data-start="00:49:50.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And Otherwise, I'm mostly just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:52.960" data-start="00:49:52.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, helping the kiddo go to play dates</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:54.320" data-start="00:49:54.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and carrying things around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:57.280" data-start="00:49:57.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And, you know, so this is the stuff that I do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:58.260" data-start="00:49:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to keep my brain happy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:00.060" data-start="00:50:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And if you're wondering,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:01.360" data-start="00:50:01.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">okay, well, do you sleep?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:03.520" data-start="00:50:03.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's the next question I expected people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:04.840" data-start="00:50:04.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ask. The answer is yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:06.420" data-start="00:50:06.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we still actually do manage to sleep,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:09.640" data-start="00:50:09.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or at least I do. Less so now that I have a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:10.760" data-start="00:50:10.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">kid, this is like 2016,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:13.100" data-start="00:50:13.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">had a kiddo, and then suddenly much less</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:14.640" data-start="00:50:14.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sleep, but still a reasonable amount of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:16.780" data-start="00:50:16.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sleep. So Emacs stuff happens,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:19.600" data-start="00:50:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can still sleep, and it's a lot of fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:23.260" data-start="00:50:23.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:26.960" data-start="00:50:26.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:30.420" data-start="00:50:30.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:30.820" data-start="00:50:30.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:33.160" data-start="00:50:33.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:36.540" data-start="00:50:36.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">how do you expect all of us to say anything</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:38.680" data-start="00:50:38.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">after this? Whatever we say is not going to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:40.560" data-start="00:50:40.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">be backed up by data, it's not going to be as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:42.360" data-start="00:50:42.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">many hours, and it's not going to be as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:43.180" data-start="00:50:43.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">qualitative in general.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:53.640" data-start="00:50:53.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can remark on something because for me it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:56.040" data-start="00:50:56.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">my fourth year helping to organize EmacsConf</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:59.280" data-start="00:50:59.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and there's a definite change this year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:02.480" data-start="00:51:02.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I did spend, usually I get into EmacsConf</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:05.640" data-start="00:51:05.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">mode in late September when I start worrying</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:07.900" data-start="00:51:07.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about the CFP, the call for proposal is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:09.720" data-start="00:51:09.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">finishing, and then we need to start running</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:12.580" data-start="00:51:12.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">after speakers to secure the proposals to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:13.860" data-start="00:51:13.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">make sure, oh, can you do this?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:16.500" data-start="00:51:16.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Can you do maybe a 10-minute format instead</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:17.400" data-start="00:51:17.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of a 20-minute format,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:18.760" data-start="00:51:18.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, all this jazzy stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:21.820" data-start="00:51:21.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And usually it kind of looks like Sasha for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:22.940" data-start="00:51:22.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">me in terms of involvement,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:24.900" data-start="00:51:24.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or at least it did for the previous year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:28.920" data-start="00:51:28.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But this year, now that I've been gainfully</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:30.220" data-start="00:51:30.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">employed as a software developer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:33.760" data-start="00:51:33.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I found it much harder to find the time to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:36.500" data-start="00:51:36.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">invest into MaxComp. But 1 of the things that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:39.520" data-start="00:51:39.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">allowed me to still stay efficient at my day</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:42.100" data-start="00:51:42.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">job is the fact that I knew that Sasha and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:43.680" data-start="00:51:43.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all the work that we did in previous years</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:46.240" data-start="00:51:46.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">would come to help us organize this year's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:48.160" data-start="00:51:48.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference. And I'm not kidding,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:49.900" data-start="00:51:49.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this year, I've been keeping an eye,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:51.300" data-start="00:51:51.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">obviously, and we've been chatting with all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:53.860" data-start="00:51:53.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the organizers, but it's mostly been Sasha</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:56.880" data-start="00:51:56.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">holding the fort from the end of the CFP in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:00.060" data-start="00:52:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">September to right about end of November.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:02.220" data-start="00:52:02.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I'll use the opportunity,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:04.780" data-start="00:52:04.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as well my fellow co-organizers will,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:07.300" data-start="00:52:07.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to thank you Sasha for putting so much time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:09.720" data-start="00:52:09.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and energy into this. Not only Sasha from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:11.680" data-start="00:52:11.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this year, but also Sasha from last year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:12.840" data-start="00:52:12.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and last year, and last year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:19.920" data-start="00:52:19.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I will not be able to give you a figure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:20.840" data-start="00:52:20.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of how much time it takes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:22.920" data-start="00:52:22.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can tell you that the 2 days of Emacs Con</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:28.180" data-start="00:52:28.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">are a bloody marathon because we cannot share</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:31.060" data-start="00:52:31.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">our screens with you, but Sasha has given you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:32.220" data-start="00:52:32.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a little bit of pointers about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:34.080" data-start="00:52:34.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, how much stuff we need to monitor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:36.560" data-start="00:52:36.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sasha just switches constantly between</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:38.860" data-start="00:52:38.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">workspaces. I just put everything on 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:41.400" data-start="00:52:41.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">workspace and my screen looks absolutely</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:44.480" data-start="00:52:44.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">mental. And then I wonder why my microphone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:46.020" data-start="00:52:46.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is clipping on BVB, I suppose.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:47.400" data-start="00:52:47.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">All right, that's all for me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:48.900" data-start="00:52:48.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Anyone wants to say anything about how much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:49.920" data-start="00:52:49.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time it takes? Sasha, please.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:52.800" data-start="00:52:52.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:55.840" data-start="00:52:55.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually have a Matthew Lent donated a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:57.440" data-start="00:52:57.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">computer to me that can handle the big</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:00.240" data-start="00:53:00.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">monitor and I'm stealing my husband's big</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:01.100" data-start="00:53:01.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">monitor over there. See,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:02.240" data-start="00:53:02.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So this is my setup today.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:05.600" data-start="00:53:05.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's got like conference stuff on my laptop</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:08.800" data-start="00:53:08.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then just IOC on the other big screen and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:10.640" data-start="00:53:10.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the 480p so I can see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:12.340" data-start="00:53:12.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can make sure it doesn't fall down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:14.900" data-start="00:53:14.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yes, so I have a nice setup today.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:22.260" data-start="00:53:22.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:24.160" data-start="00:53:24.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it takes for them to organize the MaxCon for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:25.440" data-start="00:53:25.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">2, you know, including everything,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:26.580" data-start="00:53:26.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">be it the brainstorming,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:28.940" data-start="00:53:28.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the answering volunteers and stuff like this?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:31.320" data-start="00:53:31.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Or we can move to another question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:31.800" data-start="00:53:31.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of course.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:34.600" data-start="00:53:34.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:36.180" data-start="00:53:36.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I kind of dropped the ball this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:38.940" data-start="00:53:38.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">somewhat unintentionally or unintentionally.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:41.640" data-start="00:53:41.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Well, yeah, I didn't have any other choice,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:44.280" data-start="00:53:44.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">basically, at least in like September through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:46.940" data-start="00:53:46.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like early November or mid November.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:51.100" data-start="00:53:51.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But I think like, it sort of differs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:52.480" data-start="00:53:52.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess, from year to year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:53.520" data-start="00:53:53.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sometimes life happens,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:57.900" data-start="00:53:57.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and no matter how much you would love to put</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:59.540" data-start="00:53:59.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a ton of time into something,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:01.620" data-start="00:54:01.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you just can't. And maybe next year you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:04.340" data-start="00:54:04.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do a lot more. So I'm optimistic I'll be able</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:07.080" data-start="00:54:07.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to put in much more time into things for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:09.580" data-start="00:54:09.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">EmacsConf next year, but that's just me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:12.360" data-start="00:54:12.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:13.900" data-start="00:54:13.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">drops in. Sasha, go please first.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:18.800" data-start="00:54:18.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:20.280" data-start="00:54:20.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about having those. I think designing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:24.120" data-start="00:54:24.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference systems or processes so that they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:26.800" data-start="00:54:26.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">can take advantage of little pockets of time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:30.460" data-start="00:54:30.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is the way to go. I love the fact that we now</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:33.200" data-start="00:54:33.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have a system where hosts can show up on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:35.280" data-start="00:54:35.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">day of and just rock it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:36.880" data-start="00:54:36.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? So this is great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:41.580" data-start="00:54:41.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It is good that we can get by with less time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:43.940" data-start="00:54:43.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">throughout the process and just take</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:45.660" data-start="00:54:45.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">advantage of whatever time people have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:46.960" data-start="00:54:46.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Whether it's, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:49.120" data-start="00:54:49.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they've got 2 hours, they want to caption a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:51.560" data-start="00:54:51.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talk, that sort of stuff is already totally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:52.040" data-start="00:54:52.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">awesome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:57.480" data-start="00:54:57.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:00.820" data-start="00:55:00.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yeah, you both stole my Thunder and then put</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:03.880" data-start="00:55:03.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a quarterback in me. I couldn't agree more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:04.920" data-start="00:55:04.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with everything you said.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:09.020" data-start="00:55:09.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's something that just typifies what is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:10.360" data-start="00:55:10.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">amazing about this conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:12.340" data-start="00:55:12.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? It's a kind of accessibility,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:17.120" data-start="00:55:17.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">isn't it? Having some work I can give you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:19.380" data-start="00:55:19.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that helps you give back to your community</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:21.340" data-start="00:55:21.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that is at your level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:23.300" data-start="00:55:23.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that fits your time budget,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:26.960" data-start="00:55:26.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that is something that you're willing to go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:28.280" data-start="00:55:28.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">care about because it intersects,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:31.400" data-start="00:55:31.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, the world you live in in some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:34.240" data-start="00:55:34.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">practical way and therefore you can make time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:37.360" data-start="00:55:37.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for it. We all live in a lot of different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:40.520" data-start="00:55:40.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">trenches and making them intersect is 1 of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:42.500" data-start="00:55:42.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the things Emacs does in a technical way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:43.820" data-start="00:55:43.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:47.260" data-start="00:55:47.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:51.100" data-start="00:55:51.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">community way. Okay, and it brings me back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:52.360" data-start="00:55:52.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">also on the OBS front.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:54.080" data-start="00:55:54.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think that's what really excited me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:56.260" data-start="00:55:56.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">too. When I think about the potential that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:59.440" data-start="00:55:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">out there and getting a bunch of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:01.960" data-start="00:56:01.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">looking at the work you've already done with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:03.960" data-start="00:56:03.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">OBS WebSocket and thinking about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:06.660" data-start="00:56:06.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, oh, we want more timers that count</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:09.280" data-start="00:56:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things down and we want each organizer to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:10.680" data-start="00:56:10.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">able to have a little palette of them,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:12.780" data-start="00:56:12.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">some of which are gonna be handed to you by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:14.620" data-start="00:56:14.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the conference director and some of which you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:16.800" data-start="00:56:16.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">can add yourself because they help you and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:19.600" data-start="00:56:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that's right. And, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:21.780" data-start="00:56:21.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have, you know, keeping things really fast</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:24.120" data-start="00:56:24.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and loose so we can make the artistic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:26.880" data-start="00:56:26.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">decisions on the fly that make our conference</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:30.340" data-start="00:56:30.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what it is, but then making,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:33.480" data-start="00:56:33.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, a simple automated tool chain that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:36.380" data-start="00:56:36.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">anyone can learn and that we know how to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:37.700" data-start="00:56:37.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">execute the steps of manually.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:41.000" data-start="00:56:41.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's the actual design pattern that you've</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:42.980" data-start="00:56:42.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">implemented here that's working so well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:47.460" data-start="00:56:47.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:50.080" data-start="00:56:50.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:51.600" data-start="00:56:51.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, I've dropped the ball this year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:53.600" data-start="00:56:53.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Amin's, just to be clear with everyone,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:55.380" data-start="00:56:55.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Amin's definition of dropping the ball is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:56.940" data-start="00:56:56.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">securing a sponsorship with the FSF.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:58.680" data-start="00:56:58.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So that's dropping the ball for you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:02.320" data-start="00:57:02.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:04.480" data-start="00:57:04.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We take 1 week off a month where we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:08.400" data-start="00:57:08.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">coordinate infrastructure issues between this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:13.200" data-start="00:57:13.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and other FSF supported projects using quote</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:14.320" data-start="00:57:14.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">unquote GNU infrastructure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:16.860" data-start="00:57:16.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's kind of a, GNU is really an umbrella</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:19.220" data-start="00:57:19.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">term once you get kind of close to it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:22.220" data-start="00:57:22.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You know, it's like GNU is all of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:25.020" data-start="00:57:25.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">volunteers helping with this vision we have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:25.840" data-start="00:57:25.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of user rights.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:31.380" data-start="00:57:31.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:32.220" data-start="00:57:32.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time we spend on this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:33.900" data-start="00:57:33.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's just the fact that we've experimented</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:36.180" data-start="00:57:36.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">over the 4 years I've been part of this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:38.480" data-start="00:57:38.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You know, the first year we had so many</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:40.720" data-start="00:57:40.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">meetings because we thought this would be the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:42.640" data-start="00:57:42.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">way to know 1 another and this would be the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:44.280" data-start="00:57:44.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">way to create qualitative notes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:46.520" data-start="00:57:46.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And we've come back to this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:48.180" data-start="00:57:48.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:49.940" data-start="00:57:49.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interrupt you again. This is all I do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:52.080" data-start="00:57:52.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Leo This is why I keep off the microphone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:54.060" data-start="00:57:54.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">until the last 20 minutes of the conference</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:56.580" data-start="00:57:56.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">once everybody already wants to hang up Then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:58.940" data-start="00:57:58.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I know you'll be honest with me But I have to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:01.880" data-start="00:58:01.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">say when I looked at that table of data all I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:05.280" data-start="00:58:05.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">saw was 200 hours of Sasha's life that she</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:06.940" data-start="00:58:06.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">spent talking to the, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:08.360" data-start="00:58:08.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all many of us were involved.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:10.960" data-start="00:58:10.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's not just the 4 or 5 of us that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:13.160" data-start="00:58:13.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, that have done this last 2 years</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:14.440" data-start="00:58:14.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">convention, right? It's,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:17.120" data-start="00:58:17.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, there's been many people that have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:19.340" data-start="00:58:19.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">come in, shared wise thoughts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:22.120" data-start="00:58:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">helping us form the, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:24.400" data-start="00:58:24.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ethos or all of the things that we're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:26.680" data-start="00:58:26.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">carrying forward into 2024.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:31.460" data-start="00:58:31.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sorry, Leo.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:32.640" data-start="00:58:32.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:33.560" data-start="00:58:33.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:35.980" data-start="00:58:35.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, you pretty much continued with what I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:37.500" data-start="00:58:37.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">was going to talk about.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:41.040" data-start="00:58:41.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I'm looking at the time and I've already</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:44.640" data-start="00:58:44.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">extended by 5 minutes the amount of time I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:46.640" data-start="00:58:46.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">was supposed to stay and Flowy is looking at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:50.320" data-start="00:58:50.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">me with very teary eyes because he's thinking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:51.900" data-start="00:58:51.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about the meeting he's going to have at 9am</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:53.440" data-start="00:58:53.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tomorrow, as will I by the way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:54.720" data-start="00:58:54.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yeah, don't you have to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:56.380" data-start="00:58:56.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:58.200" data-start="00:58:58.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean aren't you supposed to be...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:01.560" data-start="00:59:01.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I hope you get to sleep before work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:04.820" data-start="00:59:04.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thank you so much for your awesome work this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:04.960" data-start="00:59:04.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:07.360" data-start="00:59:07.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:09.100" data-start="00:59:09.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Conference, so I'm just here like from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:13.180" data-start="00:59:13.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Friday. At first, I was looking at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:14.760" data-start="00:59:14.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">website, which talks we're having,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:17.860" data-start="00:59:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So it's all fine. So maybe next year or the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:19.740" data-start="00:59:19.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">coming year, I can do a little bit more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:19.960" data-start="00:59:19.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">privacy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:23.260" data-start="00:59:23.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:25.920" data-start="00:59:25.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like with Amin, Flowy's definition of doing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:30.240" data-start="00:59:30.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">not having done much is hosting 1 of many of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:34.120" data-start="00:59:34.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the Dev talks. So you could be kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:35.680" data-start="00:59:35.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">worried about it. All right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:38.480" data-start="00:59:38.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">folks, considering the question that we have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:40.440" data-start="00:59:40.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right now, we still see people adding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:42.260" data-start="00:59:42.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">questions, but I think we are all pretty</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:44.960" data-start="00:59:44.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tired and we need to get on with the rest of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:46.280" data-start="00:59:46.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">our weekends or nights.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:49.740" data-start="00:59:49.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So do I go into parting words now everyone?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:50.720" data-start="00:59:50.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Are we okay with this?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:55.280" data-start="00:59:55.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'll take this for a yes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:56.780" data-start="00:59:56.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'll ask Sasha, yeah?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:00.780" data-start="01:00:00.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:03.560" data-start="01:00:03.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yells at me to come for dinner so I can hang</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:04.440" data-start="01:00:04.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">out with people after.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:09.240" data-start="01:00:09.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and do the wrapping up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:09.920" data-start="01:00:09.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:10.080" data-start="01:00:10.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:12.100" data-start="01:00:12.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right, I'll do the wrapping up for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:13.860" data-start="01:00:13.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">perhaps the stream. We might leave it up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:16.360" data-start="01:00:16.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">because there's no impetus for us to close</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:20.100" data-start="01:00:20.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it. But at least to officially close while</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:22.340" data-start="01:00:22.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we're still there, EmacsConf 2023,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:25.480" data-start="01:00:25.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I will have again to thank everyone,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:28.200" data-start="01:00:28.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all the speakers, all my co-organizers for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:31.020" data-start="01:00:31.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">making this possible. You've seen all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:32.120" data-start="01:00:32.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">care that we put into it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:34.900" data-start="01:00:34.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and we are glad every year that all this work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:37.940" data-start="01:00:37.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is doing something in terms of community</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:41.420" data-start="01:00:41.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">building, in terms of leading more people to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:42.880" data-start="01:00:42.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">join us every year as speakers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:45.040" data-start="01:00:45.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or just join us as a user of Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:49.940" data-start="01:00:49.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it's always a pleasure to organize the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:51.140" data-start="01:00:51.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference, to host it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:53.360" data-start="01:00:53.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and to work with everyone in the room</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:56.840" data-start="01:00:56.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">currently. Corwin and I are constantly joking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:59.640" data-start="01:00:59.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">when we are backstage making jokes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:03.540" data-start="01:01:03.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think it's Corwin we said last year during</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:06.620" data-start="01:01:06.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the closing remarks that there was no other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:09.000" data-start="01:01:09.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">place they'd rather be than in the backstage.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:12.800" data-start="01:01:12.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And for me, even though many things have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:15.040" data-start="01:01:15.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">changed in my life over the last year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:16.240" data-start="01:01:16.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">many good things have happened,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:19.640" data-start="01:01:19.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's good to come back to Emacs Cons as this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:22.080" data-start="01:01:22.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">milestone and say, oh yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:23.960" data-start="01:01:23.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm exactly where I want to be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:25.320" data-start="01:01:25.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with the people I want to be with,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:29.020" data-start="01:01:29.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I see myself and I cannot wait to see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:30.660" data-start="01:01:30.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">myself again in the situation next year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:32.080" data-start="01:01:32.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So thank you so much everyone.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:34.440" data-start="01:01:34.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If you want to join us,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:36.100" data-start="01:01:36.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ask questions, we'll still be here for a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:37.360" data-start="01:01:37.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">while. Floey might drop out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:39.520" data-start="01:01:39.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I might drop out, Sasha might drop out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:41.600" data-start="01:01:41.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but we'll be here to answer as many questions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:43.140" data-start="01:01:43.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as you want for as long as we can.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:46.120" data-start="01:01:46.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Bye bye everyone and let's get started with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:46.800" data-start="01:01:46.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the after show now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:51.540" data-start="01:01:51.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:53.000" data-start="01:01:53.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">when the kiddo yells at me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:56.200" data-start="01:01:56.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:58.260" data-start="01:01:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah. The way to remember what I said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:00.400" data-start="01:02:00.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Leo, it's 100% true. Oh man,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:01.380" data-start="01:02:01.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">turning off your lights,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:02.880" data-start="01:02:02.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm doing it. I'm doing it too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:04.600" data-start="01:02:04.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sorry y'all. Oh, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:05.380" data-start="01:02:05.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bye-bye lights</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:10.440" data-start="01:02:10.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:12.340" data-start="01:02:12.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we just turn off the the big lights that we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:14.240" data-start="01:02:14.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have in our faces all the day especially the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:14.440" data-start="01:02:14.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hosts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:19.120" data-start="01:02:19.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:22.700" data-start="01:02:22.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:24.280" data-start="01:02:24.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">too, so I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:25.260" data-start="01:02:25.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:28.860" data-start="01:02:28.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Can I hear you now? Yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:31.960" data-start="01:02:31.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Is it feeding back pretty bad?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:34.480" data-start="01:02:34.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:37.460" data-start="01:02:37.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:41.200" data-start="01:02:41.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:42.160" data-start="01:02:42.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">headset a little longer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:44.860" data-start="01:02:44.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I give 1 ear a break at a time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:47.140" data-start="01:02:47.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:50.060" data-start="01:02:50.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:53.080" data-start="01:02:53.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">small, small price to pay to get to smooth</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:56.600" data-start="01:02:56.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with y'all. Yeah, I was just looking at that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:58.580" data-start="01:02:58.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">chart and I was thinking about all of those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:01.360" data-start="01:03:01.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">meetings that we had like 18 months we were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:05.900" data-start="01:03:05.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just on this death march to organize this and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:09.240" data-start="01:03:09.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's just such an amazing accomplishment that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:11.960" data-start="01:03:11.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you you have here Sasha like I'm sorry to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:14.540" data-start="01:03:14.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">pick on you personally but the work that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:16.680" data-start="01:03:16.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">put in keep being able to keep it the whole</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:18.760" data-start="01:03:18.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">technical project in your mind,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:21.580" data-start="01:03:21.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all the way down to presenting it at this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:24.100" data-start="01:03:24.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year's conference and like kind of spoon</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:26.380" data-start="01:03:26.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">feeding it to people that want to run off in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:27.900" data-start="01:03:27.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">their own damn direction and then handing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:31.480" data-start="01:03:31.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">them an org is the 1 that people keep bugging</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:33.440" data-start="01:03:33.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">us about. So if you're looking for a project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:37.340" data-start="01:03:37.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here it is. Just really well done.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:43.540" data-start="01:03:43.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I no longer feel like we wasted a lot of time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:46.460" data-start="01:03:46.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there. I mean, you remember I enjoyed so much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:48.600" data-start="01:03:48.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all of our check ins and all of that stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:51.420" data-start="01:03:51.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But we had so many ideas,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:53.480" data-start="01:03:53.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you can imagine that I wondered,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:56.980" data-start="01:03:56.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, I wondered if we should have had</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:58.520" data-start="01:03:58.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more focused meetings and all that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:01.100" data-start="01:04:01.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I was glad when we stopped having like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:04.240" data-start="01:04:04.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">weekly meetings, because you know what I mean</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:06.980" data-start="01:04:06.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">To keep this much power in the room once a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:08.160" data-start="01:04:08.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">week, it feels creepy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:10.560" data-start="01:04:10.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">This much intellectual power.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:18.525" data-start="01:04:18.525" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Anyway, that's it. I think that's it for me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:19.600" data-start="01:04:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:22.280" data-start="01:04:22.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can't obviously speak for Sash or anyone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:24.840" data-start="01:04:24.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">else. Yeah, the regular meetings were a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:26.980" data-start="01:04:26.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">little bit intense than we had the year</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:29.540" data-start="01:04:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">before, but I'm kind of also super glad that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:31.840" data-start="01:04:31.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we did do them. And, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:34.840" data-start="01:04:34.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in a way, it did help us sort of connect and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:38.180" data-start="01:04:38.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">get to know each other much more regularly or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:41.200" data-start="01:04:41.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">much more which is great and I see thumbs up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:44.900" data-start="01:04:44.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from Leo and Corwin so yeah happy we did</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:49.080" data-start="01:04:49.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">them. Might want to have some kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:51.820" data-start="01:04:51.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually irregular ones every once in a while</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:53.400" data-start="01:04:53.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">if we have to decide on something.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:55.240" data-start="01:04:55.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But if like this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:57.400" data-start="01:04:57.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything can be worked out pretty much ad</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:58.780" data-start="01:04:58.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hoc, whenever needs be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:00.480" data-start="01:05:00.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like over asynchronous communications.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:03.640" data-start="01:05:03.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I see Sasha nodding very excitedly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:07.820" data-start="01:05:07.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">This also works. So yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:10.920" data-start="01:05:10.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I also see some questions coming in here</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:14.580" data-start="01:05:14.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in BBB. If other folks want to join,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:16.280" data-start="01:05:16.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">please feel free to do that as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:18.800" data-start="01:05:18.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yeah, I don't think we have an issue tracker</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:22.440" data-start="01:05:22.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right now, but our whole website is a wiki.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:24.780" data-start="01:05:24.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So if you wanna like create a new page or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:26.180" data-start="01:05:26.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there might be a page,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:28.640" data-start="01:05:28.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know. You can of course go in and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:29.760" data-start="01:05:29.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">edit it to your heart's content.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:36.540" data-start="01:05:36.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:39.440" data-start="01:05:39.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like I almost managed to type that as fast as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:40.760" data-start="01:05:40.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you could say it, you know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:43.840" data-start="01:05:43.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's fine. I get the same answer in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:46.620" data-start="01:05:46.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">chat. Yep. Our website's a wiki and we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:48.060" data-start="01:05:48.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">definitely use ideas here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:50.280" data-start="01:05:50.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If you want to implement them or you know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:53.100" data-start="01:05:53.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">document them enough that even Corwin can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:55.240" data-start="01:05:55.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">code it then you know I'll do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:58.220" data-start="01:05:58.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:00.240" data-start="01:06:00.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">some point to harvest them and I think I have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:02.240" data-start="01:06:02.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah I have an Emacs list function that does</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:05.020" data-start="01:06:05.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this for me. So that I can go through that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:06.820" data-start="01:06:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thing and include that in our organizers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:09.060" data-start="01:06:09.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">notebooks, lessons learned and ideas for next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:09.280" data-start="01:06:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:11.120" data-start="01:06:11.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:15.010" data-start="01:06:15.010" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:16.280" data-start="01:06:16.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We were talking about the different models</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:18.680" data-start="01:06:18.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">between having many, many meetings and how it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:20.280" data-start="01:06:20.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">paid off eventually. The thing is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:22.160" data-start="01:06:22.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this year we had no meetings.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:27.440" data-start="01:06:27.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We met Friday morning on Mumble and we were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:29.540" data-start="01:06:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">ready to go. We did chat things up a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:30.180" data-start="01:06:30.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bit on ISE, obviously,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:31.780" data-start="01:06:31.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but no meeting this year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:33.420" data-start="01:06:33.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I'm tempted to say that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:34.800" data-start="01:06:34.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yes, we could have off-hand meetings,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:36.360" data-start="01:06:36.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I think it's mostly because we want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:38.240" data-start="01:06:38.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">see 1 another, not because we need</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:40.680" data-start="01:06:40.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">necessarily for those meetings to prepare</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:45.480" data-start="01:06:45.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs cons. But what I wanted to say as well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:49.740" data-start="01:06:49.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is that I think it's a testament to the bets</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:52.940" data-start="01:06:52.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that Sasha took last year to automatize a lot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:54.520" data-start="01:06:54.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of things. I mean, we'd already been</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:55.760" data-start="01:06:55.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">automatizing a lot of stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:58.260" data-start="01:06:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like writing scripts for every single thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:02.220" data-start="01:07:02.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in ESPire, but last year we made a big bet to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:04.600" data-start="01:07:04.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">say, what if we had OBS in the cloud?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:06.580" data-start="01:07:06.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What if we had a streaming platform that was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:08.680" data-start="01:07:08.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">running on a machine? And this is what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:11.660" data-start="01:07:11.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">allowed us to very smoothly have 2 tracks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:13.380" data-start="01:07:13.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the general track and the dev track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:16.640" data-start="01:07:16.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think the beauty of this system is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:19.680" data-start="01:07:19.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that, obviously, because we get more and more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:20.720" data-start="01:07:20.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">speakers submitting talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:22.800" data-start="01:07:22.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we are starting to think maybe we actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:26.480" data-start="01:07:26.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">need a third track or something and no 1 is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:28.580" data-start="01:07:28.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stressed in the room when Sasha says this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:31.100" data-start="01:07:31.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You know, there's not the reaction that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:32.320" data-start="01:07:32.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, oh no it's gonna be tough,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:33.200" data-start="01:07:33.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we're gonna need more hosts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:34.480" data-start="01:07:34.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">organizers, it's just a calm...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:37.580" data-start="01:07:37.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:39.000" data-start="01:07:39.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">when Sasha says this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:44.640" data-start="01:07:44.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:46.640" data-start="01:07:46.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:47.720" data-start="01:07:47.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">spot next year. You'd be like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:49.200" data-start="01:07:49.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, hey, Colin, what do you feel about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:49.400" data-start="01:07:49.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hosting?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:53.300" data-start="01:07:53.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:56.960" data-start="01:07:56.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I feel, I mean, just to jump in there and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:59.540" data-start="01:07:59.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">say, yes, exactly. No,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:01.400" data-start="01:08:01.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there's no concern on the part of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:03.220" data-start="01:08:03.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">organizer committee that we could expand</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:06.000" data-start="01:08:06.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this. If you said we needed to expand to 4</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:08.400" data-start="01:08:08.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tracks, I think we would gulp and consider</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:10.080" data-start="01:08:10.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it, you know, from there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:11.040" data-start="01:08:11.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it gets a little crazy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:13.980" data-start="01:08:13.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but strictly because there aren't that many</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:16.399" data-start="01:08:16.399" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people that we know want to commit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:18.120" data-start="01:08:18.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What did we see there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:20.600" data-start="01:08:20.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">80 hours of potential work that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:23.000" data-start="01:08:23.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, that could go into organizing next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:25.439" data-start="01:08:25.439" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year's conference if you find that it's a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:26.979" data-start="01:08:26.979" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">rabbit hole for you and being a streamer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:28.979" data-start="01:08:28.979" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">means you want to read every email and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:31.500" data-start="01:08:31.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">respond to every, as Sasha has done this last</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:34.439" data-start="01:08:34.439" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year, right? So when I look at her numbers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:35.359" data-start="01:08:35.359" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for total participation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:38.000" data-start="01:08:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that's really a high watermark.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:43.439" data-start="01:08:43.439" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sasha really took care of this convention,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:46.680" data-start="01:08:46.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, like a producer might.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:52.240" data-start="01:08:52.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And the fact that what used to take 200 hours</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:56.000" data-start="01:08:56.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">before, I mean, I can't harp enough on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:57.720" data-start="01:08:57.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">story that that's telling you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:00.399" data-start="01:09:00.399" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? And as I think about it with a project</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:01.800" data-start="01:09:01.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">manager hat on, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:02.960" data-start="01:09:02.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm saying, okay, well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:07.080" data-start="01:09:07.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that's, you know, that work can potentially</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:09.800" data-start="01:09:09.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">be amplified to many thousands of hours of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:11.800" data-start="01:09:11.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">work, considering the automation and the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:13.279" data-start="01:09:13.279" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">potential for bringing people in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:14.540" data-start="01:09:14.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So if you thought about it as a money-making</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:16.319" data-start="01:09:16.319" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thing, If we were trying to make money by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:16.960" data-start="01:09:16.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">having these conventions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:19.040" data-start="01:09:19.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you would think we have a very profitable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:23.760" data-start="01:09:23.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">business here because we can amplify the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:25.640" data-start="01:09:25.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talent that walks in the door really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:28.140" data-start="01:09:28.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">effectively, if that makes sense,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:29.800" data-start="01:09:29.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">through the tools and the training.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:33.800" data-start="01:09:33.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:35.920" data-start="01:09:35.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">volunteer as a host or just check in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:38.300" data-start="01:09:38.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">let's just talk host. It's really just a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:40.080" data-start="01:09:40.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">matter of showing up, making sure your BVB</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:42.160" data-start="01:09:42.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">works so you can talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:43.260" data-start="01:09:43.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If you want to share your webcam,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:44.899" data-start="01:09:44.899" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you can. You can skip it if you don't want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:46.359" data-start="01:09:46.359" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to. You can share the screen with the pad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:48.640" data-start="01:09:48.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then you just sit there and you chat with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:51.260" data-start="01:09:51.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a speaker and you read the questions off the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:53.240" data-start="01:09:53.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">pad in case they don't read the questions off</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:56.740" data-start="01:09:56.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">themselves. So it can be a very low effort,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:59.440" data-start="01:09:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">low stress way to get into it and just there</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:02.840" data-start="01:10:02.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">kind of helping the speaker have somebody to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:05.540" data-start="01:10:05.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talk to. It doesn't have to take 80 hours.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:08.220" data-start="01:10:08.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It can take 2 hours and that's cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:10.680" data-start="01:10:10.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:11.820" data-start="01:10:11.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">transcription task. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:13.700" data-start="01:10:13.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sorry, I probably missed the lead there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:16.080" data-start="01:10:16.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? Every individual part of this is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:19.160" data-start="01:10:19.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">really easy. So it's an open-ended commitment</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:22.360" data-start="01:10:22.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to come and kind of meet a part of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:24.840" data-start="01:10:24.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">committee, a part of the community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:27.040" data-start="01:10:27.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? To come in and say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:29.440" data-start="01:10:29.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">maybe you're really excited about org,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:33.420" data-start="01:10:33.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you could review talks and just review the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:35.420" data-start="01:10:35.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">org ones. There's not an obligation that says</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:37.440" data-start="01:10:37.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you're going to look at every talk that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:40.520" data-start="01:10:40.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">submitted, right? Share your thoughts on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:42.500" data-start="01:10:42.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talks that you have a chance to review the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:44.440" data-start="01:10:44.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">proposals. That's the submissions review</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:48.040" data-start="01:10:48.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">part, right? So there's a way to help with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:51.820" data-start="01:10:51.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">almost any appetite for I'd like a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:54.520" data-start="01:10:54.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">extra work in the Emacs department here like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:56.480" data-start="01:10:56.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">if you want to feel like you're part of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:59.600" data-start="01:10:59.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">team this this team is really easy to get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:02.440" data-start="01:11:02.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:03.680" data-start="01:11:03.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:04.280" data-start="01:11:04.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">please. Go ahead,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:06.820" data-start="01:11:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:08.940" data-start="01:11:08.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:10.380" data-start="01:11:10.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't get tired of hearing you talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:13.000" data-start="01:11:13.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but yeah, I was going to say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:16.920" data-start="01:11:16.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yeah, I feel like that's the general message</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:19.600" data-start="01:11:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here is that we're all just a bunch of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:21.360" data-start="01:11:21.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">who are interested in this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:24.060" data-start="01:11:24.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And of course, being humans,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:26.120" data-start="01:11:26.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">each of us have different kinds of lives and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:27.560" data-start="01:11:27.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">different kinds of availabilities and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:28.260" data-start="01:11:28.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">different kinds of interests.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:29.860" data-start="01:11:29.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And there is something for everybody,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:34.300" data-start="01:11:34.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">both in terms of the kinds of tasks that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:37.480" data-start="01:11:37.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">need doing, but also in terms of the amount</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:39.980" data-start="01:11:39.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of time that you want or are able to put in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:43.780" data-start="01:11:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So yes, if you do think this is something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:46.240" data-start="01:11:46.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that you might be interested in helping with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:47.980" data-start="01:11:47.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for future additions and such,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:51.140" data-start="01:11:51.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or even some of the post-conference work that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:52.300" data-start="01:11:52.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">needs doing after this year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:55.800" data-start="01:11:55.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Please reach out there's something for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:57.440" data-start="01:11:57.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everybody and I would love to have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:03.020" data-start="01:12:03.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:06.260" data-start="01:12:06.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so I came here last year just doing some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:08.600" data-start="01:12:08.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">checking in and the process of getting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:10.840" data-start="01:12:10.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's called a trained in was really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:12.520" data-start="01:12:12.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">really short. There was a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:13.700" data-start="01:12:13.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">documentation how to do something.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:17.720" data-start="01:12:17.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, there's a pad that gets sent and what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:20.540" data-start="01:12:20.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to do, when to do, and what to ask is like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:22.160" data-start="01:12:22.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">really incredible. So thank you for that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:26.320" data-start="01:12:26.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Just come here, write an email,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:28.860" data-start="01:12:28.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">join us. It's really, really cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:30.920" data-start="01:12:30.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it's a great experience to be honest.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:35.680" data-start="01:12:35.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:36.820" data-start="01:12:36.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the update of the wiki,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:38.320" data-start="01:12:38.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh Coleman did you want to say something?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:41.140" data-start="01:12:41.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:44.240" data-start="01:12:44.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Floey Coder further but you go ahead.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:51.000" data-start="01:12:51.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I was just gonna say I think you're pretty</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:52.420" data-start="01:12:52.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">quick, you're pretty quick,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:55.320" data-start="01:12:55.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you took to it really quickly or you show</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:57.240" data-start="01:12:57.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just kind of a reflexive calm.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:59.340" data-start="01:12:59.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like you know how to not talk over people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:01.200" data-start="01:13:01.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You're already better at it than I am.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:06.500" data-start="01:13:06.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Now, you know, I think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:09.000" data-start="01:13:09.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah, I hope you're enjoying the new stuff</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:10.600" data-start="01:13:10.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that you're starting to take on because you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:12.040" data-start="01:13:12.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">seem to be doing great with it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:14.220" data-start="01:13:14.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And yeah, I hope you're not sitting there</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:15.720" data-start="01:13:15.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thinking that you're taking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:17.960" data-start="01:13:17.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, that you're coming on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:19.700" data-start="01:13:19.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that you're not taking on enough</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:21.420" data-start="01:13:21.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">responsibility or anything like that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:23.100" data-start="01:13:23.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or I don't know, maybe.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:26.040" data-start="01:13:26.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I picked up like a little undercurrent of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:28.100" data-start="01:13:28.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, I don't do that much,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:31.440" data-start="01:13:31.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I hope you don't feel that way because I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:33.719" data-start="01:13:33.719" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just enjoyed really having your help the last</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:38.680" data-start="01:13:38.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">couple of years. Thank you very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:47.640" data-start="01:13:47.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:48.560" data-start="01:13:48.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, they just tell you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:49.340" data-start="01:13:49.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, could you do check-ins?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:51.820" data-start="01:13:51.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like I showed up for 4 years ago saying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:54.660" data-start="01:13:54.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, I'd like to help and look at me now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:56.780" data-start="01:13:56.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think I did I host on the first year?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:57.800" data-start="01:13:57.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm pretty sure I did.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:00.020" data-start="01:14:00.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like it took 2 months basically of onboarding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:02.960" data-start="01:14:02.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to convince me to do some of the hosting and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:06.820" data-start="01:14:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">back then oh it was so tough for us to do the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:08.440" data-start="01:14:08.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hosting because we didn't have all the fancy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:10.320" data-start="01:14:10.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">setup we have this year and we were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:13.680" data-start="01:14:13.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">struggling with OBS with bid rates with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:18.160" data-start="01:14:18.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sharing scenes I'm glad we are where we are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:20.460" data-start="01:14:20.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">today, where I don't have to worry as much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:21.880" data-start="01:14:21.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about this. But it's also nice,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:24.440" data-start="01:14:24.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's also 1 thing, we do have a culture of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:25.760" data-start="01:14:25.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">documentation as Sasha exemplified,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:28.140" data-start="01:14:28.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and like Flo mentioned,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:29.540" data-start="01:14:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">documentation on the roles.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:33.060" data-start="01:14:33.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yes, We did do this to help people join us.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:39.360" data-start="01:14:39.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But really, I'm the host of General,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:41.660" data-start="01:14:41.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but it could be just anyone else because we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:43.780" data-start="01:14:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have so much documentation on how to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:46.560" data-start="01:14:46.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things. Obviously, when a co-organizer is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:48.740" data-start="01:14:48.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">doing a role, we tend to have an eye on how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:49.740" data-start="01:14:49.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the infrastructure is going.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:51.820" data-start="01:14:51.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But really, if you want to join us,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:54.720" data-start="01:14:54.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we will make sure that the jobs that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:57.240" data-start="01:14:57.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have, first, you like them and it's something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:14:59.440" data-start="01:14:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that interests you, and we will also make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:04.180" data-start="01:15:04.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sure that on our end, everything goes well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:06.140" data-start="01:15:06.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for you. Like we'll be monitoring the streams</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:08.540" data-start="01:15:08.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and every time we have a new person join us,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:13.500" data-start="01:15:13.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it is as much energy and mental availability</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:17.780" data-start="01:15:17.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to invest into, oh, maybe we could do this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:19.800" data-start="01:15:19.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Oh, 0, we have a fire going out because the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:21.320" data-start="01:15:21.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">speaker hasn't checked in yet.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:24.060" data-start="01:15:24.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So it's all about sharing expertise,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:27.180" data-start="01:15:27.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's all about making people level up in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:28.520" data-start="01:15:28.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">terms of skills that are really useful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:34.120" data-start="01:15:34.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I will attribute a lot of my success in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:35.920" data-start="01:15:35.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">public speaking to the work I do with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:38.620" data-start="01:15:38.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">EmacsConf, and I'm sure plenty of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:43.420" data-start="01:15:43.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">would gain from joining us and learning these</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:47.440" data-start="01:15:47.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">skills. All right, It's about 30 minutes past</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:49.740" data-start="01:15:49.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the official time. Do we want to go a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:51.180" data-start="01:15:51.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">longer? Are we still available to go?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:15:55.180" data-start="01:15:55.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">All right, well, let's keep going.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:00.443" data-start="01:16:00.443" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't see any more people joining us on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:00.660" data-start="01:16:00.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:01.240" data-start="01:16:01.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:03.940" data-start="01:16:03.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the room. Bob, do you want to maybe unmute</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:05.400" data-start="01:16:05.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yourself and ask us some questions?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:08.420" data-start="01:16:08.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Or just thank us. I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:09.480" data-start="01:16:09.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm just begging for something.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:10.920" data-start="01:16:10.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But I know you've been very helpful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:15.340" data-start="01:16:15.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:18.340" data-start="01:16:18.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">No, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted for you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:22.800" data-start="01:16:22.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think. So I learned something.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:25.040" data-start="01:16:25.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Everybody wants to record their videos,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:26.460" data-start="01:16:26.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which of course, is great,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:28.380" data-start="01:16:28.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then you have the subtitles and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:31.560" data-start="01:16:31.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everything. But I saved a lot of time by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:35.600" data-start="01:16:35.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">doing it live this year and not going in and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:38.040" data-start="01:16:38.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tweaking and doing all the editing and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:39.440" data-start="01:16:39.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">spending all the time that we do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:42.480" data-start="01:16:42.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it was kind of fun to do it that way too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:44.900" data-start="01:16:44.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So just a little note there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:48.340" data-start="01:16:48.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But I look forward to seeing 1 of my talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:53.760" data-start="01:16:53.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">subtitled someday. So no,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:55.240" data-start="01:16:55.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I love what you do. It's fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:16:57.660" data-start="01:16:57.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I've only seen part of Sasha's talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:00.660" data-start="01:17:00.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so I'll go and review that about how you're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:03.840" data-start="01:17:03.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">automating all this. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:06.560" data-start="01:17:06.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's a little sad for me personally that of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:09.080" data-start="01:17:09.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">course, Org gets all the attention,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:14.060" data-start="01:17:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but you know, we're exposing hyperbole more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:16.820" data-start="01:17:16.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">now and There's definitely a growing interest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:18.800" data-start="01:17:18.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on Reddit and you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:20.140" data-start="01:17:20.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think it's kind of like EmacsConf.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:23.680" data-start="01:17:23.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Give it a few years. We went away for a long</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:24.840" data-start="01:17:24.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time and then we came back.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:30.420" data-start="01:17:30.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We'll start to see it permeate the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:33.160" data-start="01:17:33.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">first. But I was thinking that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:36.720" data-start="01:17:36.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, I think people who like Emacs and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:38.340" data-start="01:17:38.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">stuff, they read things online,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:40.920" data-start="01:17:40.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they come to this conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:43.620" data-start="01:17:43.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but we're always hearing about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:44.620" data-start="01:17:44.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">well, the next generation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:47.260" data-start="01:17:47.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We have to deal with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:50.000" data-start="01:17:50.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think a lot of people get exposed to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:52.900" data-start="01:17:52.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs in college. Now a professor turns them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:55.080" data-start="01:17:55.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on to it and makes them use it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:57.100" data-start="01:17:57.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then they go out into the real world,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:17:59.720" data-start="01:17:59.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and there's no encouragement anymore,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:01.460" data-start="01:18:01.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and they just drop it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:05.600" data-start="01:18:05.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And with all of what you're putting together</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:09.280" data-start="01:18:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here, it seems like if there was some reach</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:14.120" data-start="01:18:14.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">out to universities and college students,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:18.600" data-start="01:18:18.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You know, we might get a whole new big crowd</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:22.360" data-start="01:18:22.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of people coming in. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:25.200" data-start="01:18:25.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just as I think OREG has really attracted a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:26.840" data-start="01:18:26.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">lot of people in the sciences,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:30.060" data-start="01:18:30.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">since that's what it was originally developed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:32.500" data-start="01:18:32.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for. So just a thought,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:35.740" data-start="01:18:35.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, maybe if you get any volunteers who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:38.440" data-start="01:18:38.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">can help in the reach out or just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:40.320" data-start="01:18:40.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, sending things around to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:43.780" data-start="01:18:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">universities that might really extend who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:45.060" data-start="01:18:45.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">gets exposed to this stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:49.240" data-start="01:18:49.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:51.960" data-start="01:18:51.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interesting idea. And it sort of touches on a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:52.600" data-start="01:18:52.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">couple of different things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:53.640" data-start="01:18:53.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sort of like you mentioned,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:18:56.180" data-start="01:18:56.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">well, with org, it sort of really drew into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:00.060" data-start="01:19:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sciences, folks. It would be interesting to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:03.280" data-start="01:19:03.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">see other parts of Emacs doing that for other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:05.740" data-start="01:19:05.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">kinds of communities, but also specifically,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:08.920" data-start="01:19:08.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess, for colleges and universities.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:14.220" data-start="01:19:14.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yeah, it would be cool if we had local groups</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:17.140" data-start="01:19:17.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or local meetups, because so far right now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:20.140" data-start="01:19:20.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think the most common ones are like by city</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:22.280" data-start="01:19:22.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like for example a Toronto Emacs meetup or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:25.320" data-start="01:19:25.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">something like that yeah if you could maybe</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:28.820" data-start="01:19:28.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">encourage or help foster a university level</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:32.200" data-start="01:19:32.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">type of thing you know University of blah</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:35.360" data-start="01:19:35.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">blah Emacs group or something like that and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:39.860" data-start="01:19:39.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know seeing what their needs would be or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:42.860" data-start="01:19:42.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">trying to think also what features of Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:46.260" data-start="01:19:46.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">would be very useful in an academic slash</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:48.680" data-start="01:19:48.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">educational setting. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:50.460" data-start="01:19:50.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">lots of food for thought there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:19:52.120" data-start="01:19:52.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So thank you for mentioning this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:02.420" data-start="01:20:02.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:04.400" data-start="01:20:04.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">OBS is coming up here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:06.820" data-start="01:20:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I worked with that a bit,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:08.920" data-start="01:20:08.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yes, last year. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:12.040" data-start="01:20:12.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">another powerful piece of software with a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:15.240" data-start="01:20:15.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sort of, I think, a weak user interface,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:20.080" data-start="01:20:20.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, for the newbies coming along on it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:23.200" data-start="01:20:23.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And maybe, you know, if there's,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:25.920" data-start="01:20:25.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">if that's kind of what people use,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:29.540" data-start="01:20:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">figuring out or putting some information in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:32.740" data-start="01:20:32.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the wiki about how to do that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:34.900" data-start="01:20:34.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, work with it or...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:36.300" data-start="01:20:36.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:43.140" data-start="01:20:43.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:46.420" data-start="01:20:46.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">preeminent streamer software out there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:49.120" data-start="01:20:49.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">well beyond the free software community.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:54.120" data-start="01:20:54.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's used by most streamers on Twitch and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:20:59.680" data-start="01:20:59.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other like commercial for-profit things but</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:01.780" data-start="01:21:01.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of course those companies are making money</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:04.480" data-start="01:21:04.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">off people trying to give money to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:07.200" data-start="01:21:07.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">streamers. Those streamers aren't getting any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:10.160" data-start="01:21:10.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">software help. So actually most of them are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:13.900" data-start="01:21:13.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">dependent for their income on free software</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:18.680" data-start="01:21:18.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like OBS and OBS in specific or by some kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:23.100" data-start="01:21:23.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of forked brand name is the primary tool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:28.660" data-start="01:21:28.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:29.860" data-start="01:21:29.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">joined us right now in the room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:33.240" data-start="01:21:33.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm putting you on the spot,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:34.480" data-start="01:21:34.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">if you want to stay muted you can.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:35.640" data-start="01:21:35.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Oh, you have unmuted yourself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:38.400" data-start="01:21:38.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:41.180" data-start="01:21:41.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yes, I'm here. How are you guys doing?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:43.840" data-start="01:21:43.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:44.200" data-start="01:21:44.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:45.480" data-start="01:21:45.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:50.040" data-start="01:21:50.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:51.960" data-start="01:21:51.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference. I really have to congratulate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:56.120" data-start="01:21:56.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everyone. So I just hopped on here to sort of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:21:58.140" data-start="01:21:58.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">say that I'm extremely impressed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:04.240" data-start="01:22:04.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think this is an example to follow for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:07.040" data-start="01:22:07.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other conferences and for Emacs in general.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:09.400" data-start="01:22:09.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think we need more of this community-type</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:12.940" data-start="01:22:12.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">organizing and just getting people interested</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:15.960" data-start="01:22:15.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and involved on all kinds of levels can only</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:20.200" data-start="01:22:20.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">help Emacs. Because we are in this for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:22.540" data-start="01:22:22.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">long haul. That's it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:25.280" data-start="01:22:25.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:28.500" data-start="01:22:28.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If I can comment, that's 1 of the things that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:30.720" data-start="01:22:30.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">drew me to trying to contribute to free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:32.580" data-start="01:22:32.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">software when I was a kid,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:35.580" data-start="01:22:35.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like we're talking now 30 plus years ago,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:38.360" data-start="01:22:38.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the idea like, and I recognized it from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:42.180" data-start="01:22:42.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Stallman's initial manifestos on the topic,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:45.060" data-start="01:22:45.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? He was clearly in this for the long</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:47.040" data-start="01:22:47.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">haul. Like I am building the library of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:50.500" data-start="01:22:50.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Alexandria here and like linking the work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:52.420" data-start="01:22:52.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that we're trying to do to community that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:54.640" data-start="01:22:54.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">don't know how you could touch my heart you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:57.620" data-start="01:22:57.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">know more surely because that's that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:22:59.440" data-start="01:22:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">exactly what we want to do not necessarily</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:03.800" data-start="01:23:03.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">any given talk or comment but the idea that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:07.960" data-start="01:23:07.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we have to get together and share our ideas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:10.900" data-start="01:23:10.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and the place that we do that has to be just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:14.380" data-start="01:23:14.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">has to be a buffet and not a crucible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:17.620" data-start="01:23:17.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:19.400" data-start="01:23:19.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">giants, really, when we're looking at Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:21.100" data-start="01:23:21.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and sort of what we have achieved.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:24.680" data-start="01:23:24.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And the galaxy of talent that exists in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:27.040" data-start="01:23:27.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs community is also like truly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:30.800" data-start="01:23:30.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">impressive, I think. So There's a lot of work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:34.280" data-start="01:23:34.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to be done, but we've also achieved some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:37.120" data-start="01:23:37.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">pretty impressive things so far.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:38.620" data-start="01:23:38.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So let's just keep at it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:43.200" data-start="01:23:43.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm sure we'll have a fantastic future for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:44.180" data-start="01:23:44.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:52.540" data-start="01:23:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:23:56.540" data-start="01:23:56.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Stefan's here. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:00.400" data-start="01:24:00.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just the common tropes that go around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:05.320" data-start="01:24:05.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I just hear it so much on the net,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:07.540" data-start="01:24:07.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, is Emacs still alive?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:09.960" data-start="01:24:09.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Do people still use it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:11.120" data-start="01:24:11.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You know, and of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:13.620" data-start="01:24:13.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's like you have an older piece of software</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:15.200" data-start="01:24:15.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that started so long ago,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:17.540" data-start="01:24:17.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people don't realize that it's still up,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:20.320" data-start="01:24:20.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but it's also because of the trends,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:22.900" data-start="01:24:22.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? You know, we've got the electron-based</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:28.580" data-start="01:24:28.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">development and Visual Studio is slick out of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:32.720" data-start="01:24:32.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the box. So what's in the core Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:36.260" data-start="01:24:36.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">developers realm, obviously you guys are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:38.160" data-start="01:24:38.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">taking this longer term perspective,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:44.060" data-start="01:24:44.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which makes sense, but what do you think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:48.480" data-start="01:24:48.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about this issue, the shorter term and how to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:52.200" data-start="01:24:52.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">alleviate those concerns that some people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:52.540" data-start="01:24:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">represent?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:54.820" data-start="01:24:54.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:55.840" data-start="01:24:55.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this is something that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:24:59.340" data-start="01:24:59.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, clearly people are discussing and as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:01.480" data-start="01:25:01.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you say, It's almost like a trope at this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:04.200" data-start="01:25:04.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">point. And it's been discussed on EmacsDevil,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:07.800" data-start="01:25:07.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what can we do to promote Emacs more and to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:10.240" data-start="01:25:10.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what extent should we care about that?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:15.100" data-start="01:25:15.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I mean, my reply to that is usually just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:19.120" data-start="01:25:19.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the rumors of my death are very accurate.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:24.720" data-start="01:25:24.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think this is true also for Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:29.240" data-start="01:25:29.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we are very much here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:31.960" data-start="01:25:31.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think what has happened also is reflective</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:34.960" data-start="01:25:34.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of basically that there are just more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:36.580" data-start="01:25:36.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">programmers on the planet,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:38.040" data-start="01:25:38.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:39.920" data-start="01:25:39.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:41.960" data-start="01:25:41.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that segment as it's been growing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:44.680" data-start="01:25:44.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but also we have more Emacs users I think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:47.500" data-start="01:25:47.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">today than probably ever before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:48.420" data-start="01:25:48.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We have more packages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:50.540" data-start="01:25:50.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we have more stuff going on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:55.580" data-start="01:25:55.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I think it's a challenge as well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:25:58.200" data-start="01:25:58.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like to what extent do we wanna be like a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:00.260" data-start="01:26:00.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">niche and to what extent do we wanna be the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:03.280" data-start="01:26:03.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">text editor for programmers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:06.420" data-start="01:26:06.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think there's a tension there because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:09.780" data-start="01:26:09.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we want to stay true to what Emacs is and to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:12.440" data-start="01:26:12.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">its sort of core values of what makes Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:16.720" data-start="01:26:16.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">great, but can we still make some changes to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:18.340" data-start="01:26:18.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sort of stay relevant.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:21.060" data-start="01:26:21.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think that's a huge win.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:24.800" data-start="01:26:24.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And clearly these discussions are going on on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:26.980" data-start="01:26:26.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the Emacs level and in the minds of core</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:29.340" data-start="01:26:29.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">developers, I think, every day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:32.040" data-start="01:26:32.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Even though, I mean, most of our work is just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:35.320" data-start="01:26:35.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">trying to keep adding new features,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:38.220" data-start="01:26:38.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">make sure that we have that sort of core</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:40.060" data-start="01:26:40.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">infrastructure in place,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:42.280" data-start="01:26:42.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is part of the reason why I gave the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:44.260" data-start="01:26:44.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talk I did yesterday, to invite more people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:46.920" data-start="01:26:46.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to come on board. Because I see a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:48.200" data-start="01:26:48.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people have opinions about Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:50.700" data-start="01:26:50.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is amazing, and we need more of that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:54.160" data-start="01:26:54.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But I think, let's say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:26:56.280" data-start="01:26:56.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">patches speak louder than words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:01.300" data-start="01:27:01.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Software. And it's definitely true in Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:01.780" data-start="01:27:01.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:04.680" data-start="01:27:04.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:06.820" data-start="01:27:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like attack the premise of the question a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:09.800" data-start="01:27:09.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">little bit, right? Remember that we are sort</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:11.880" data-start="01:27:11.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of in a trench warfare with commercial</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:15.160" data-start="01:27:15.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interests that are dependent on dominating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:20.660" data-start="01:27:20.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">software ecosystems in order to exploit users</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:24.600" data-start="01:27:24.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for money. Like that is a necessary thing to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:26.020" data-start="01:27:26.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a lot of people's business model.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:30.060" data-start="01:27:30.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And so we live in a world where software is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:32.760" data-start="01:27:32.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more than tools. It is clothing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:38.480" data-start="01:27:38.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And so when I put on my Mac and I put on my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:42.860" data-start="01:27:42.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">UI skin, I'm not just choosing whether I like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:46.640" data-start="01:27:46.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sliders or radio buttons or check boxes or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:49.840" data-start="01:27:49.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the other UI mechanics that give that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:53.920" data-start="01:27:53.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">heuristic and make it make me think it's easy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:55.440" data-start="01:27:55.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to use, easy to learn to use,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:27:59.160" data-start="01:27:59.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? I'm also choosing a whole line of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:02.080" data-start="01:28:02.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">implementation detail that I'm being actively</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:06.040" data-start="01:28:06.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">trained not to try to understand by,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:08.720" data-start="01:28:08.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, kind of the dark side of the force</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:11.780" data-start="01:28:11.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">over here. So when I think about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:14.380" data-start="01:28:14.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, make Emacs more like Toaster,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:18.860" data-start="01:28:18.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:21.340" data-start="01:28:21.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:22.740" data-start="01:28:22.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">question asks, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:24.160" data-start="01:28:24.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">an angel grows, gets asked,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:25.440" data-start="01:28:25.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">an angel grows its wings.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:27.040" data-start="01:28:27.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">A developer submits a patch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:30.040" data-start="01:28:30.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a bug gets opened that we can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:31.840" data-start="01:28:31.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, with enough information to actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:33.240" data-start="01:28:33.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do something about it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:34.920" data-start="01:28:34.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the ecosystem gets better,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:38.100" data-start="01:28:38.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? Whether a new user comes or not,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:40.680" data-start="01:28:40.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like somebody's actually asking a question</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:42.780" data-start="01:28:42.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that's going to lead them someday to pick a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:43.260" data-start="01:28:43.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">better tool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:47.620" data-start="01:28:47.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:50.000" data-start="01:28:50.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we have powerful enemies and they are not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:52.540" data-start="01:28:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">working for us. And when they are working on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:54.960" data-start="01:28:54.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">improving VS code, you can't be under any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:56.640" data-start="01:28:56.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">illusion that they are doing that in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:57.340" data-start="01:28:57.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interest of the users.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:28:59.760" data-start="01:28:59.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">They're doing that in their interest of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:02.620" data-start="01:29:02.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">corporate owners. So this is the reality that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:04.640" data-start="01:29:04.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we have to face and Emacs is just not like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:07.920" data-start="01:29:07.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that. And this is of course part of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:09.960" data-start="01:29:09.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">reason why it's so important that we continue</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:14.040" data-start="01:29:14.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this work for the future of being able to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:17.640" data-start="01:29:17.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">computing in a free way and in a way that is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:20.220" data-start="01:29:20.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually, you know, supports the types of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:21.740" data-start="01:29:21.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">workflows that we know and love.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:26.720" data-start="01:29:26.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:29.680" data-start="01:29:29.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that, you know, you've mentioned we need more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:30.640" data-start="01:29:30.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">programmers in the world.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:33.240" data-start="01:29:33.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And in light of what we're doing with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:35.140" data-start="01:29:35.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">EmacsConf, perhaps we need more people to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:36.580" data-start="01:29:36.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">at EmacsConf talking, not necessarily</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:38.100" data-start="01:29:38.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">programmers, but just people apprehending</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:40.520" data-start="01:29:40.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs and talking about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:42.720" data-start="01:29:42.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It feels like we've got different missions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:44.440" data-start="01:29:44.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that we're trying to accomplish with this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:45.820" data-start="01:29:45.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We are... Okay, you...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:47.780" data-start="01:29:47.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Go ahead, Colin.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:49.600" data-start="01:29:49.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:52.120" data-start="01:29:52.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I almost came in there on the previous point.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:55.020" data-start="01:29:55.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yeah, I actually Completely agree with that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:29:58.900" data-start="01:29:58.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Leo. That's something that and I mean to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:02.780" data-start="01:30:02.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">fair. I owe a good I owe dev al a good email</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:05.800" data-start="01:30:05.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on this topic, but we desperately need more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:07.840" data-start="01:30:07.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">project managers, more solutions architect,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:10.380" data-start="01:30:10.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more business process analysts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:12.660" data-start="01:30:12.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more systems analysts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:15.100" data-start="01:30:15.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more, you know, and the best tech,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:17.900" data-start="01:30:17.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, some of the best threads start with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:23.100" data-start="01:30:23.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">quite a bit of an analytical work done on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:24.940" data-start="01:30:24.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">part of an engineer who's come along.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:29.320" data-start="01:30:29.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But actually, Larry Wall has this quote,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:31.640" data-start="01:30:31.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? Where he says, consider 3 solutions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:34.120" data-start="01:30:34.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and build 1. And I think we struggle with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:36.760" data-start="01:30:36.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that as a community because getting a patch</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:39.920" data-start="01:30:39.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is a lot of work and a lot to ask for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:42.900" data-start="01:30:42.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">somebody. So asking 3 people to submit a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:45.200" data-start="01:30:45.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">patch means you're saying no to a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:47.280" data-start="01:30:47.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">blood, sweat and tears on the part of like 2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:48.960" data-start="01:30:48.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people, maybe 2 teams of people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:30:55.520" data-start="01:30:55.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:02.020" data-start="01:31:02.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">usability and user experience design.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:05.560" data-start="01:31:05.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think, and not in the sense like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:08.260" data-start="01:31:08.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, CUA mode or,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:12.440" data-start="01:31:12.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, people don't realize that Emacs key</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:13.680" data-start="01:31:13.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bindings are actually ergonomic,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:16.720" data-start="01:31:16.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but more, you know, like for myself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:20.240" data-start="01:31:20.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I did a lot of work in sort of bringing out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:24.480" data-start="01:31:24.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs features and did a lot of things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:26.240" data-start="01:31:26.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">creating this info doc,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:28.940" data-start="01:31:28.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, which is sort of like Space Max or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:30.300" data-start="01:31:30.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">something in the old days.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:33.900" data-start="01:31:33.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But the process, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:38.600" data-start="01:31:38.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">kept a lot of that from ever making it into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:40.460" data-start="01:31:40.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">CoreDMX and, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:44.180" data-start="01:31:44.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just a lack of time on my part to follow up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:46.560" data-start="01:31:46.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But if you had somebody,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:51.220" data-start="01:31:51.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, who sort of coalesced all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:52.820" data-start="01:31:52.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">technical work on like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:31:56.280" data-start="01:31:56.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">here's how we can put it together and make it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:01.320" data-start="01:32:01.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">more accessible, I've seen that go a long way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:02.800" data-start="01:32:02.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in certain environments.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:06.100" data-start="01:32:06.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I imagine, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:08.160" data-start="01:32:08.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's just not the experience of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:11.180" data-start="01:32:11.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, most people on the core team.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:14.620" data-start="01:32:14.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:16.160" data-start="01:32:16.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We don't have, I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:18.760" data-start="01:32:18.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we're mostly a bunch, we're a bunch of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:20.080" data-start="01:32:20.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">programmers. That's what we are,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:22.640" data-start="01:32:22.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? We don't have graphical signers or any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:24.320" data-start="01:32:24.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of the stuff that you're talking about.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:28.380" data-start="01:32:28.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we don't have really any UX experts on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:30.380" data-start="01:32:30.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">board. So perhaps that would be welcome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:35.460" data-start="01:32:35.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But then again, how do you even fit the EMAX</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:38.880" data-start="01:32:38.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">paradigm into what is typically taught and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:40.840" data-start="01:32:40.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">discussed in UX? I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:43.220" data-start="01:32:43.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">maybe there is a way. I'm sure there are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:45.640" data-start="01:32:45.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">general principles and a lot that we could</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:47.880" data-start="01:32:47.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">learn, But then there is also like this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:52.240" data-start="01:32:52.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we have to stay true to what Emacs is to some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:53.940" data-start="01:32:53.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">extent and what does that look like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:56.320" data-start="01:32:56.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">concretely. There are discussions to be had</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:32:58.620" data-start="01:32:58.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for sure, but we would definitely benefit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:02.900" data-start="01:33:02.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from that type of specific input.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:04.360" data-start="01:33:04.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:06.940" data-start="01:33:06.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:09.720" data-start="01:33:09.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">at the conference guidelines I always stay in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:13.160" data-start="01:33:13.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">dark mode and it said well use light mode for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:16.220" data-start="01:33:16.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">your presentation so okay I'll switch to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:19.280" data-start="01:33:19.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">light mode let me load a theme so I go into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:21.280" data-start="01:33:21.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">all the default themes and,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:23.900" data-start="01:33:23.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, start going through the light ones</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:28.080" data-start="01:33:28.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then I check all the faces and,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:31.120" data-start="01:33:31.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, there are at least 3 to 5 faces</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:35.160" data-start="01:33:35.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that have nearly invisible text as a result</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:38.480" data-start="01:33:38.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of the background highlighting on them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:40.080" data-start="01:33:40.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I'm like, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:43.380" data-start="01:33:43.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so there's low hanging fruit like that where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:46.840" data-start="01:33:46.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people would deal with the structure of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:49.400" data-start="01:33:49.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">menus, the actual faces,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:53.120" data-start="01:33:53.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the themes, that don't have to do anything</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:57.840" data-start="01:33:57.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">affecting core Emacs except make the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:33:59.960" data-start="01:33:59.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">presentation much better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:03.380" data-start="01:34:03.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:06.160" data-start="01:34:06.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">polishing patches for various aspects,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:09.280" data-start="01:34:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I spent some time making a new help screen.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:10.520" data-start="01:34:10.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know if you noticed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:12.740" data-start="01:34:12.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know how many people press Control H,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:14.160" data-start="01:34:14.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Control H on their keyboards,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:17.540" data-start="01:34:17.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But it's like with new sections and it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:18.480" data-start="01:34:18.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sorted a little bit better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:20.500" data-start="01:34:20.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It didn't take much. I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:21.660" data-start="01:34:21.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it took a time obviously,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:23.940" data-start="01:34:23.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but it's not like it required some fantastic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:28.140" data-start="01:34:28.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">technical knowledge or deep expertise in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:29.200" data-start="01:34:29.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs Lisp to do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:31.480" data-start="01:34:31.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's Basically anyone can do stuff like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:34.200" data-start="01:34:34.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So definitely if you're interested in doing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:37.440" data-start="01:34:37.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that type of work, start discussing with us.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:41.040" data-start="01:34:41.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Let's talk about what we can do and get doing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:41.820" data-start="01:34:41.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it, really.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:44.960" data-start="01:34:44.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:45.800" data-start="01:34:45.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">presentation from yesterday,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:47.720" data-start="01:34:47.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Stefan, as well, because you were just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:50.160" data-start="01:34:50.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">inviting people who are not contributing to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:51.380" data-start="01:34:51.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the core of Emacs to do so.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:53.200" data-start="01:34:53.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You were talking to package developer on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:55.120" data-start="01:34:55.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">MailPub, but you were also talking just about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:58.200" data-start="01:34:58.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the average Joe or Jane just doing their own</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:34:59.580" data-start="01:34:59.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things or encountering a problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:01.120" data-start="01:35:01.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Now, yes, we talked about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:02.800" data-start="01:35:02.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, you need to build master and all this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:03.920" data-start="01:35:03.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but at the end of the day,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:06.680" data-start="01:35:06.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">low-hanging fruits like the ones Bob just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:09.840" data-start="01:35:09.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">described. If everyone does this at the end,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:11.280" data-start="01:35:11.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you end up with something that is extremely</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:13.520" data-start="01:35:13.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">polished. Perhaps you do not need to have a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:14.900" data-start="01:35:14.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">UX specialist to tell you that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:18.220" data-start="01:35:18.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">oh, those 2 colors are actually very close to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:21.220" data-start="01:35:21.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">1 another. I think it's kind of a discussion</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:23.580" data-start="01:35:23.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about same defaults as well that you had</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:25.080" data-start="01:35:25.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yesterday. Ultimately,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:27.340" data-start="01:35:27.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we do not need... Yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:28.780" data-start="01:35:28.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we need more programmers in the world.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:30.480" data-start="01:35:30.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We want more people to use Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:33.740" data-start="01:35:33.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But you don't know. Like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:36.220" data-start="01:35:36.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is it going to be someone in computer science</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:38.420" data-start="01:35:38.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that's going to be the next giant on whose</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:39.580" data-start="01:35:39.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">shoulders we're going to stand?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:41.003" data-start="01:35:41.003" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:41.066" data-start="01:35:41.066" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in computer science that's going to be the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:41.082" data-start="01:35:41.082" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">next giant</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:41.137" data-start="01:35:41.137" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:41.184" data-start="01:35:41.184" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Is it someone who did not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:41.192" data-start="01:35:41.192" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:42.660" data-start="01:35:42.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">computer science? Is it going to be someone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:44.060" data-start="01:35:44.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">who did something completely different?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:46.960" data-start="01:35:46.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We do not know the prototypical user of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:49.280" data-start="01:35:49.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs. We have some idea about the fact that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:51.760" data-start="01:35:51.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">they might be using you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:52.580" data-start="01:35:52.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs for their programming,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:55.560" data-start="01:35:55.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but more and more, and as is evidenced by the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:35:56.420" data-start="01:35:56.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">talks we received with EmacsConf,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:01.020" data-start="01:36:01.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's just people doing writing or taking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:01.920" data-start="01:36:01.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">notes for their classes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:06.340" data-start="01:36:06.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So it's really interesting to see how and to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:09.400" data-start="01:36:09.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">explore for us how we can give back to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:11.180" data-start="01:36:11.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">core of Emacs in a way that is mutually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:12.360" data-start="01:36:12.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">constructive because again,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:14.440" data-start="01:36:14.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to go back to the philosophy or the political</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:17.400" data-start="01:36:17.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">agenda that we have is for more people to use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:19.700" data-start="01:36:19.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">software that is not the liberties.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:20.500" data-start="01:36:20.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Exactly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:24.140" data-start="01:36:24.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:25.840" data-start="01:36:25.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that's a good spot for me to come right back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:27.380" data-start="01:36:27.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in. And that's exactly where I do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:30.200" data-start="01:36:30.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Right. Because that's that's what it's all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:33.040" data-start="01:36:33.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about. In the In terms of a tool user,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:36.600" data-start="01:36:36.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, the evolution of using tools as,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:38.620" data-start="01:36:38.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, these creatures have fought,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:42.820" data-start="01:36:42.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs is fire. Emacs is the ability to learn</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:45.920" data-start="01:36:45.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">languages, the ability to manipulate other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:48.140" data-start="01:36:48.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tools. I mean, it's almost like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:50.680" data-start="01:36:50.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, God Emperor of Dune level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:53.720" data-start="01:36:53.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, some Frank Herbert type of powers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:56.480" data-start="01:36:56.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that you have over your computer and you are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:36:58.460" data-start="01:36:58.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">not required to understand how all those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:02.440" data-start="01:37:02.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things work. So from a support standpoint</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:04.540" data-start="01:37:04.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that puts us in a challenging position,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:06.300" data-start="01:37:06.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? I spend a lot of time on Pound Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:07.760" data-start="01:37:07.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and the questions that go by there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:09.840" data-start="01:37:09.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I feel bad for people that feel like they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:12.600" data-start="01:37:12.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have to answer every question that goes by in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:14.060" data-start="01:37:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the channel because no 1 could.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:16.640" data-start="01:37:16.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">No 1 can give an intelligent answer to the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:18.040" data-start="01:37:18.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, everything from,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:21.260" data-start="01:37:21.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Hey, how do I change my default font on this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:23.520" data-start="01:37:23.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">operating system? You've never heard of to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:26.140" data-start="01:37:26.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, how do you know this list code?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:28.040" data-start="01:37:28.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's 40 lines long doesn't work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:30.040" data-start="01:37:30.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I think it was a recent change that was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:31.720" data-start="01:37:31.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">made to the P case macro.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:39.480" data-start="01:37:39.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Do you agree? Right? And as deep as that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:42.740" data-start="01:37:42.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">well is, if you turn it 90 degrees,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:45.040" data-start="01:37:45.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the Emacs is that kind of tool to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:46.080" data-start="01:37:46.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">operating system level.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:48.800" data-start="01:37:48.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's letting me walk across to other systems,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:51.360" data-start="01:37:51.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">multi-hop, become the super user,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:55.120" data-start="01:37:55.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? And, you know, the just the power,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:37:57.600" data-start="01:37:57.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the amplification of power there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:02.320" data-start="01:38:02.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's like the lever combined with the magnet,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:08.140" data-start="01:38:08.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">etc, etc. I mean, just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:14.760" data-start="01:38:14.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah, I don't know. So I guess where we kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:16.260" data-start="01:38:16.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of jump off, where that gets stuck,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:18.580" data-start="01:38:18.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right, is trying to change something like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:19.760" data-start="01:38:19.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">defaults in the user experience.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:22.740" data-start="01:38:22.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I imagine, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:26.580" data-start="01:38:26.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we don't get 1 great idea about user</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:28.020" data-start="01:38:28.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">experience, we'll get 3,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:30.240" data-start="01:38:30.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? And then Once again,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:32.980" data-start="01:38:32.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we have to send our brave developers off to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:36.220" data-start="01:38:36.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">build 1 to 3 patches, some of which won't see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:41.040" data-start="01:38:41.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the light of day. I think that's where the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:41.920" data-start="01:38:41.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">breakthrough is needed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:46.680" data-start="01:38:46.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Another evolution in the packaging thought,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:48.620" data-start="01:38:48.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or maybe it's not packaging.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:50.920" data-start="01:38:50.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Maybe it's the compilation step.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:52.800" data-start="01:38:52.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Maybe it's the distribution step.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:56.120" data-start="01:38:56.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Maybe we want the Debians of the world to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:38:59.220" data-start="01:38:59.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">deliver Emacs as 2 different pieces now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:03.540" data-start="01:39:03.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And there's a UX piece that we want you to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:05.280" data-start="01:39:05.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">package each 1 that you package,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:09.060" data-start="01:39:09.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">each 1 per window manager that you support or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:11.380" data-start="01:39:11.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">at the intersection of each window manager</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:12.940" data-start="01:39:12.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and display manager you port.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:15.200" data-start="01:39:15.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And the other one's just the server and you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:17.040" data-start="01:39:17.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">don't even have to package that if I'm only</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:19.680" data-start="01:39:19.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">offering the CLI or there's a you know like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:21.960" data-start="01:39:21.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm making all this up and I can't code a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:23.760" data-start="01:39:23.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">single thing like what I just said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:26.920" data-start="01:39:26.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I think that there's a technical</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:31.640" data-start="01:39:31.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">opportunity. Pretty high level for technical</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:35.020" data-start="01:39:35.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there of just thinking about a way to accept</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:40.560" data-start="01:39:40.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">contributions of experience with maybe a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:43.780" data-start="01:39:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">little less rigor and a little less ground</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:44.900" data-start="01:39:44.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">into the marble.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:50.400" data-start="01:39:50.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:54.220" data-start="01:39:54.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just brought up pair programming and he's in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:39:58.080" data-start="01:39:58.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">love with it. He wants to pair up and do it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:01.120" data-start="01:40:01.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which is not true of all programmers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:05.800" data-start="01:40:05.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But I said, okay, so you spearhead that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:10.680" data-start="01:40:10.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If we, I think it is a very high barrier to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:13.580" data-start="01:40:13.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">get your patches in because of course they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:15.420" data-start="01:40:15.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">need to meet the quality standard of Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:20.800" data-start="01:40:20.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So if people who are doing day-to-day</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:24.200" data-start="01:40:24.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">understand that process and can do it well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:28.200" data-start="01:40:28.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">could work with some of the people who can't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:30.040" data-start="01:40:30.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">quite contribute at that level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:35.020" data-start="01:40:35.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but have ideas that are on the level that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:39.780" data-start="01:40:39.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">should go in, pairing them up could really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:41.420" data-start="01:40:41.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">move a lot of that forward.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:46.000" data-start="01:40:46.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like Lars, I don't know what his,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:50.000" data-start="01:40:50.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I get the feeling maybe he's retired.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:54.960" data-start="01:40:54.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So, you know, maybe he has some time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:40:58.300" data-start="01:40:58.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, and he's really good at going back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:00.320" data-start="01:41:00.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in and saying, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:02.400" data-start="01:41:02.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">these areas haven't gotten attention in a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:05.660" data-start="01:41:05.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">while, so I'm going to go kill some bugs and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:08.160" data-start="01:41:08.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">look at them and fix them up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:13.640" data-start="01:41:13.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I would think he would be good to do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:15.340" data-start="01:41:15.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with someone. But you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:22.400" data-start="01:41:22.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Again, I've got years of code that would just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:25.320" data-start="01:41:25.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">require somebody to work through it to update</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:28.340" data-start="01:41:28.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to the latest code base and diff against it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:30.080" data-start="01:41:30.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But it does things like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:32.960" data-start="01:41:32.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, like if anybody used RMAIL anymore,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:36.200" data-start="01:41:36.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I made the summary mode of RMAIL exactly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:40.080" data-start="01:41:40.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">compatible key-wise with the main buffer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:43.140" data-start="01:41:43.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">which it never was, and fixed a number of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:46.120" data-start="01:41:46.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other features. Dured made operations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:49.340" data-start="01:41:49.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">reversible, where you mark something and you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:51.420" data-start="01:41:51.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">unmark it, and you can go up and down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:53.160" data-start="01:41:53.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And there are all these little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:41:56.260" data-start="01:41:56.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">incompatibilities that kind of add up across</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:00.120" data-start="01:42:00.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time, and they never seem to get addressed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:06.180" data-start="01:42:06.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We could just fix them and people would start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:09.400" data-start="01:42:09.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to say, oh, this is smoother and they are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:12.580" data-start="01:42:12.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">getting more of that experience because it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:15.060" data-start="01:42:15.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">feels like the systems maybe 80,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:20.740" data-start="01:42:20.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">85% of the way there in a lot of thoughtful</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:26.040" data-start="01:42:26.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">design. But that last 15% could be the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:29.640" data-start="01:42:29.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">difference between an iPhone and an Android</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:32.260" data-start="01:42:32.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">phone of usability-wise.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:38.720" data-start="01:42:38.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So that's a thought. That's a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:41.100" data-start="01:42:41.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:42.840" data-start="01:42:42.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">applied far wider than emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:46.060" data-start="01:42:46.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's something that that FSF should</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:48.480" data-start="01:42:48.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">consider suggesting across,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:49.920" data-start="01:42:49.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, GNU packages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:54.280" data-start="01:42:54.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for example, like a matchmaking project seems</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:42:56.520" data-start="01:42:56.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like something that FSF community teams</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:04.020" data-start="01:43:04.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">should think about. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:04.360" data-start="01:43:04.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I was going</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:04.920" data-start="01:43:04.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:08.080" data-start="01:43:08.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I noticed that the name Debian came up a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:09.840" data-start="01:43:09.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">while ago and now we were talking about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:14.540" data-start="01:43:14.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">programming and such and Mentoring maybe and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:17.960" data-start="01:43:17.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Debian has this service or part of their site</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:19.600" data-start="01:43:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or community called Mentors.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:22.120" data-start="01:43:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">They have a website, mentors.debian.net,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:26.920" data-start="01:43:26.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">where the idea is that people who want to get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:28.100" data-start="01:43:28.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">into contributing to Debian,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:29.580" data-start="01:43:29.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for example, to package things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:33.200" data-start="01:43:33.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but obviously don't have upload rights right</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:35.720" data-start="01:43:35.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">away. This is where they can go to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:38.460" data-start="01:43:38.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and this is separate from their mailing list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:42.340" data-start="01:43:42.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or bug trackers. They can basically build</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:44.760" data-start="01:43:44.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">their changed packages and upload them here,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:48.220" data-start="01:43:48.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and then Debian developers who have commit or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:51.380" data-start="01:43:51.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">upload rights to the Debian archive can go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:55.960" data-start="01:43:55.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and review and give them feedback or ask them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:43:57.620" data-start="01:43:57.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to change something or if it's good,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:01.620" data-start="01:44:01.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">then just easily upload the package right</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:04.200" data-start="01:44:04.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">from there. And I wonder if it might make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:07.760" data-start="01:44:07.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sense to have something kind of like that in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:10.360" data-start="01:44:10.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like the context of Emacs or the GNU project</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:13.360" data-start="01:44:13.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as a whole, where we have like some kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:15.520" data-start="01:44:15.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">a, like loosely defined mentoring thing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:18.840" data-start="01:44:18.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">where we could pair up people who are more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:20.500" data-start="01:44:20.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">experienced, who, for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:22.540" data-start="01:44:22.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">have commit rights in the Emacs core</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:27.080" data-start="01:44:27.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">repository to match them up with someone who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:29.080" data-start="01:44:29.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is just making your very first patches or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:31.640" data-start="01:44:31.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">contributions to Emacs or whatever other GNU</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:34.000" data-start="01:44:34.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">package. Just some food for thought,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:38.040" data-start="01:44:38.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:44.340" data-start="01:44:44.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:47.360" data-start="01:44:47.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">such a system which would be nice is that it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:49.200" data-start="01:44:49.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">at least in terms of, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:50.380" data-start="01:44:50.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the mentors that Debbie and that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:52.200" data-start="01:44:52.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that it has a web UI, which,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:56.040" data-start="01:44:56.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">is nice because mailing lists might be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:58.140" data-start="01:44:58.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">intimidating for someone who is just getting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:44:59.340" data-start="01:44:59.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">started, like in these communities.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:03.960" data-start="01:45:03.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Or, you know, just making patches like that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:05.440" data-start="01:45:05.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or just have a series of concrete</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:08.100" data-start="01:45:08.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">instructions. Like with mentors at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:11.100" data-start="01:45:11.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Devian.net, I feel like you can't go wrong in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:13.820" data-start="01:45:13.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">terms of finding the steps of figuring out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:16.260" data-start="01:45:16.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">what you need to do to put together some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:19.040" data-start="01:45:19.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">change. Which I think the same idea could</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:20.280" data-start="01:45:20.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">apply to Emacs, for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:20.860" data-start="01:45:20.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:24.560" data-start="01:45:24.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:27.440" data-start="01:45:27.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">barriers, and how email is a barrier to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:28.860" data-start="01:45:28.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people. I mean, so on the 1 hand,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:31.100" data-start="01:45:31.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you have us guys on Emacs level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:32.860" data-start="01:45:32.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we're very used to the email workflow.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:35.140" data-start="01:45:35.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like we're not just using it for fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:37.040" data-start="01:45:37.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You know what I mean? Like this is a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:38.320" data-start="01:45:38.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">workhorse. It really is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:41.400" data-start="01:45:41.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it's tried, it's battled,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:42.900" data-start="01:45:42.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">tested. It has some quirks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:45.140" data-start="01:45:45.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but we know them extremely well on the other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:48.060" data-start="01:45:48.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hand. So, but still we want more people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:50.700" data-start="01:45:50.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">involved, right? And we realized that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:52.760" data-start="01:45:52.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, times are changing as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:54.720" data-start="01:45:54.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And people are more used to doing stuff from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:45:55.640" data-start="01:45:55.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the web browser, perhaps.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:00.040" data-start="01:46:00.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we do want to move to a forge,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:01.920" data-start="01:46:01.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">or at least start looking into that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:03.560" data-start="01:46:03.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But there are some obstacles.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:06.060" data-start="01:46:06.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we are looking for volunteers to do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:07.360" data-start="01:46:07.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">work. I'm not just saying it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:08.640" data-start="01:46:08.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like we are very serious.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:11.660" data-start="01:46:11.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm very seriously asking people in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:12.520" data-start="01:46:12.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">community to consider,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:14.920" data-start="01:46:14.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hey, could you dedicate some time?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:18.660" data-start="01:46:18.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, it will take some dedication for sure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:20.600" data-start="01:46:20.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it will take some time and it will take some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:23.040" data-start="01:46:23.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">describe probably even you know Be prepared</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:24.760" data-start="01:46:24.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to be frustrated at times right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:26.980" data-start="01:46:26.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but if you're serious about doing that type</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:28.040" data-start="01:46:28.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of work, okay now</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:32.520" data-start="01:46:32.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:35.900" data-start="01:46:35.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but but but yes exactly any I mean it's it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:38.560" data-start="01:46:38.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">not even a joke right Any serious undertaking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:41.420" data-start="01:46:41.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">having to do with any free software project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:45.300" data-start="01:46:45.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just because we are open to the entire world</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:47.760" data-start="01:46:47.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and we pride ourselves on trying to take</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:50.020" data-start="01:46:50.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">seriously all input. And if it's a logical</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:51.940" data-start="01:46:51.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">argument, then we'll go ahead and take the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:53.000" data-start="01:46:53.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">time to combat with you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:54.960" data-start="01:46:54.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even though the maintainer has 300 other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:57.260" data-start="01:46:57.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things to do. Like, man,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:46:58.280" data-start="01:46:58.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:00.020" data-start="01:47:00.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:02.840" data-start="01:47:02.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right? It just, It's not like Emacs is way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:06.960" data-start="01:47:06.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">harder to change than any other project of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:08.680" data-start="01:47:08.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">its longevity and size.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:10.800" data-start="01:47:10.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's just these things take time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:13.420" data-start="01:47:13.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Try getting a change into Debian.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:15.060" data-start="01:47:15.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's an uphill battle.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:16.960" data-start="01:47:16.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't even know where to start with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:19.540" data-start="01:47:19.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">That's huge, right? And I have tremendous</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:21.640" data-start="01:47:21.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">respect for the people doing that type of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:22.760" data-start="01:47:22.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">work because it takes dedication,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:26.280" data-start="01:47:26.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it takes effort. So we really need someone to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:27.180" data-start="01:47:27.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">step up from the community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:29.760" data-start="01:47:29.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I think, to be a champion for something like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:33.160" data-start="01:47:33.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this and work together with us on Emacs Devil</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:37.800" data-start="01:47:37.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and off Emacs Devil, probably with me and Eli</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:40.320" data-start="01:47:40.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and perhaps some other people that could be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:41.820" data-start="01:47:41.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in the mail thread, and we could coordinate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:44.620" data-start="01:47:44.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this type of work. I would be super excited</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:46.560" data-start="01:47:46.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">if someone wanted to get the ball rolling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:48.480" data-start="01:47:48.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can't do everything.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:51.100" data-start="01:47:51.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I wish I could. Like, I thought about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:52.840" data-start="01:47:52.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Should I just put everything to the side and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:53.860" data-start="01:47:53.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do this? But then, I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:54.800" data-start="01:47:54.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there are some, there are other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:56.040" data-start="01:47:56.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">responsibilities as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:57.740" data-start="01:47:57.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So we need someone to step up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:47:58.520" data-start="01:47:58.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We need help here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:03.220" data-start="01:48:03.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:04.120" data-start="01:48:04.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">on you. Go ahead.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:05.540" data-start="01:48:05.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:06.540" data-start="01:48:06.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah, I was just gonna say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:08.460" data-start="01:48:08.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yeah, I echo Stefan's sentiments.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:11.680" data-start="01:48:11.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And that, yeah, in terms of like maybe</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:14.020" data-start="01:48:14.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">experimenting with a different Forge or a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:15.280" data-start="01:48:15.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">better Forge and like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:16.124" data-start="01:48:16.124" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, supplementing Savannah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:16.640" data-start="01:48:16.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And supplementing Savannah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:20.860" data-start="01:48:20.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I actually did some initial work a couple of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:23.240" data-start="01:48:23.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">months ago to get a SourceFed instance</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:24.860" data-start="01:48:24.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">installed for the new project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:28.440" data-start="01:48:28.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I've done some work on and off,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:29.340" data-start="01:48:29.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but then life happens,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:32.140" data-start="01:48:32.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">especially from September onwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:35.240" data-start="01:48:35.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But even from earlier in the year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:36.460" data-start="01:48:36.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the project has been semi-dormant,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:38.740" data-start="01:48:38.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I have been meaning to get to that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:42.740" data-start="01:48:42.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I'm like 1 such person who's interested in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:44.760" data-start="01:48:44.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that type of work and driving it forward and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:47.640" data-start="01:48:47.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I would love you know if anyone's and anyone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:50.820" data-start="01:48:50.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">else has the kind of time and energy and the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:52.760" data-start="01:48:52.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interest to help with something like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:55.280" data-start="01:48:55.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Yes, please reach out to all of us,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:56.880" data-start="01:48:56.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">to Emacs core developers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:48:58.100" data-start="01:48:58.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of course, and to myself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:01.840" data-start="01:49:01.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">This is something that could be very useful,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:04.960" data-start="01:49:04.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">not just for GNU Emacs and Emacs developers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:09.760" data-start="01:49:09.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but also for any other GNU package as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:13.040" data-start="01:49:13.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So yeah, that's 1 area of potential</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:15.660" data-start="01:49:15.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">contribution and 1 thing that we sort of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:17.860" data-start="01:49:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess, regularly meet with the FSF</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:20.140" data-start="01:49:20.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">sysadmins to discuss these kinds of projects</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:22.120" data-start="01:49:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and things as Corwin would know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:24.520" data-start="01:49:24.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:26.280" data-start="01:49:26.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you knew exactly where I was going to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:27.960" data-start="01:49:27.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and I'm glad that you volunteered yourself</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:30.040" data-start="01:49:30.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">personally because that's the best choice.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:32.320" data-start="01:49:32.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">If you're hearing this and you're thinking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:35.760" data-start="01:49:35.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, maybe I should do some sysop stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:38.200" data-start="01:49:38.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">literally reach out to Amin.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:41.040" data-start="01:49:41.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And because it's complicated,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:43.040" data-start="01:49:43.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there are a lot of projects to volunteer for.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:44.120" data-start="01:49:44.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">They're all very worthy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:48.760" data-start="01:49:48.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And it's sort of political to figure out what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:52.760" data-start="01:49:52.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we're gonna try to change for whom first to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:55.940" data-start="01:49:55.940" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">demonstrate we can do all the things we wanna</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:49:58.320" data-start="01:49:58.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">do to make it better without losing all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:00.340" data-start="01:50:00.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things that are important about how it is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:04.040" data-start="01:50:04.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">today. And we'll do it in a measured way like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:06.500" data-start="01:50:06.500" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everybody's just like room full of rocking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:09.640" data-start="01:50:09.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">chairs everybody's got a long tail it's a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:12.340" data-start="01:50:12.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hard project but you will do something that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:15.380" data-start="01:50:15.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just a lot like as a Savannah hacker which I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:17.920" data-start="01:50:17.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">am with Amin So that's how I know about his</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:20.080" data-start="01:50:20.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">work on that project. We worked together on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:22.300" data-start="01:50:22.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the Savannah Forge. I'm aware of his work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:26.660" data-start="01:50:26.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">piloting SourceHut recently and just with a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:29.020" data-start="01:50:29.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">working group there to look at the next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:30.540" data-start="01:50:30.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">generation of forges for GNU.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:34.160" data-start="01:50:34.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs of course as a GNU package could go do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:36.540" data-start="01:50:36.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">its own thing. FFS would most likely give</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:38.360" data-start="01:50:38.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">cash to go do its own thing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:39.720" data-start="01:50:39.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even if it didn't like it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:41.140" data-start="01:50:41.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We know, you know, as a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:42.800" data-start="01:50:42.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like if I put on, I'm not FSF,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:44.260" data-start="01:50:44.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but if I put on that hat,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:45.800" data-start="01:50:45.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I imagine that we must know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:50.020" data-start="01:50:50.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs is a flagship thing that people in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:52.420" data-start="01:50:52.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">real world depend on. If I get this ancient</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:55.320" data-start="01:50:55.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">computer, I get a working Linux distribution</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:50:59.340" data-start="01:50:59.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and Emacs. Maybe it's not Microsoft Word as a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:00.800" data-start="01:51:00.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">word processor, but you guys,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:03.080" data-start="01:51:03.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you can learn a language on it for sure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:05.600" data-start="01:51:05.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know And you can do your homework on it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:08.300" data-start="01:51:08.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and you know It's it makes your you can edit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:10.580" data-start="01:51:10.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">things and then you can edit your system</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:13.900" data-start="01:51:13.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">files and teach yourself how to manage a GNU</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:17.860" data-start="01:51:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">system and you can You know so Emacs is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:19.540" data-start="01:51:19.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">really powerful as a practical tool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:21.560" data-start="01:51:21.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Like I keep coming back to that point when I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:25.040" data-start="01:51:25.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">think about Emacs, like I really put it as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:27.380" data-start="01:51:27.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, it's an important tool on the like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:31.780" data-start="01:51:31.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">humans inventing tools level just because it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:35.080" data-start="01:51:35.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">lets me make this editor into whatever I need</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:37.580" data-start="01:51:37.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it to be to get my actual work done.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:39.520" data-start="01:51:39.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Whether that's getting the length,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:41.460" data-start="01:51:41.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">maybe that's making the font big enough that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:43.260" data-start="01:51:43.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can see it, or making it easy enough to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:44.760" data-start="01:51:44.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">change from this font to that font,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:45.920" data-start="01:51:45.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">changing the background colors,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:47.960" data-start="01:51:47.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like your basic vision,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:49.960" data-start="01:51:49.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">accessibility issues, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:52.740" data-start="01:51:52.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">All, you know, solved,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:55.080" data-start="01:51:55.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can bake that customization in and I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:56.320" data-start="01:51:56.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">pretty much depend on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:57.900" data-start="01:51:57.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">no matter what we change in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:51:59.760" data-start="01:51:59.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm gonna accept the new version,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:01.920" data-start="01:52:01.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">it's gonna be on the next computer I get,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:03.840" data-start="01:52:03.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm going to install the package and my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:05.920" data-start="01:52:05.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">configuration that sets all that up will be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:10.960" data-start="01:52:10.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">there for me. Right? It's like back to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:13.300" data-start="01:52:13.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Stefan's point, what, 6 and a half hours ago,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:16.120" data-start="01:52:16.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, you know, 20 minutes ago about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:23.680" data-start="01:52:23.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">just... Oh gosh, I lost it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:27.980" data-start="01:52:27.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Boy, I really thought I had handed that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:29.020" data-start="01:52:29.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">neatly back to you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:36.040" data-start="01:52:36.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:36.220" data-start="01:52:36.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">agreement.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:41.980" data-start="01:52:41.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:44.800" data-start="01:52:44.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">of harmony, and the realm of midnight in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:47.560" data-start="01:52:47.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Europe, Should we bring this discussion to a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:49.200" data-start="01:52:49.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">close or we could go all night,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:51.180" data-start="01:52:51.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">but I'll need to explain to my employer why</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:52.720" data-start="01:52:52.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">my eyes are barely open tomorrow.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:56.600" data-start="01:52:56.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:52:59.960" data-start="01:52:59.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I see some folks starting to slowly sign off.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:02.740" data-start="01:53:02.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:04.680" data-start="01:53:04.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you could leave and just miss out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:05.460" data-start="01:53:05.460" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:13.620" data-start="01:53:13.620" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:15.880" data-start="01:53:15.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">amazing job with everything you're doing in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:16.960" data-start="01:53:16.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the community over the years?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:18.820" data-start="01:53:18.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm so impressed with Emacs News.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:22.020" data-start="01:53:22.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What a great resource to stay up to date in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:24.720" data-start="01:53:24.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Emacs. Just really hats off to you for a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:25.080" data-start="01:53:25.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">whole lot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:26.680" data-start="01:53:26.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:29.440" data-start="01:53:29.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:31.840" data-start="01:53:31.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">timely that John Wheatley had suggested it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:35.020" data-start="01:53:35.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">back when he was maintainer because when I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:36.980" data-start="01:53:36.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">had the kiddo, I suddenly had 0 time to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:38.000" data-start="01:53:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">actually write new things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:39.560" data-start="01:53:39.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But reading things is fine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:41.820" data-start="01:53:41.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I can just speed read all the Reddit things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:43.160" data-start="01:53:43.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and put the links together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:45.800" data-start="01:53:45.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So I'm very glad that Emacs news is helpful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:49.080" data-start="01:53:49.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:53:55.380" data-start="01:53:55.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:00.040" data-start="01:54:00.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">closing thoughts here while Leo's still here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:01.740" data-start="01:54:01.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And then if we wanna keep rolling,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:04.760" data-start="01:54:04.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">even after Leo drops, we won't tell him,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:06.420" data-start="01:54:06.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we'll tell him we're stuck.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:12.380" data-start="01:54:12.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:14.140" data-start="01:54:14.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">for the second close of the day I've already</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:18.080" data-start="01:54:18.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">done it I can do it again But I will prove</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:19.300" data-start="01:54:19.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Sasha wrong this time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:21.020" data-start="01:54:21.020" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I will miss out if need be because really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:24.160" data-start="01:54:24.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I have been very impressed with the sleep</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:28.700" data-start="01:54:28.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">record that you had and I am very envious</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:32.040" data-start="01:54:32.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">right now of your past ability to sleep more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:33.160" data-start="01:54:33.160" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">than 9 hours per night.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:35.440" data-start="01:54:35.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">And I wish I would be able to go back to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:37.300" data-start="01:54:37.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">this. But anyway, folks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:38.560" data-start="01:54:38.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm going to drop out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:40.520" data-start="01:54:40.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">People might hang out for a little while</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:42.360" data-start="01:54:42.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">longer. Bear in mind that Sasha might get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:44.480" data-start="01:54:44.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">called at any point to go take care of Kido.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:47.220" data-start="01:54:47.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">So this might wrap up very fast afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:49.780" data-start="01:54:49.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">But at any rate, it was my pleasure to be the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:51.420" data-start="01:54:51.420" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">host today. Stefan, thank you for joining.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:53.520" data-start="01:54:53.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Bob, thank you for joining and interacting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:56.040" data-start="01:54:56.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">with us and making this a little more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:54:58.860" data-start="01:54:58.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">interactive and more plural than just the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:01.260" data-start="01:55:01.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">co-organizers. And on that note,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:03.640" data-start="01:55:03.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I will be leaving. So have a wonderful night,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:05.860" data-start="01:55:05.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everyone. And we'll see you next year for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:06.740" data-start="01:55:06.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">next edition, potentially.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:09.560" data-start="01:55:09.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:11.580" data-start="01:55:11.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I take everything I said on mumble back.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:12.280" data-start="01:55:12.280" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">You're amazing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:14.840" data-start="01:55:14.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:16.400" data-start="01:55:16.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:17.960" data-start="01:55:17.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Take care. Bye. I will</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:20.200" data-start="01:55:20.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:22.200" data-start="01:55:22.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thank you all for this cool conference and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:24.920" data-start="01:55:24.920" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hopefully we're here through the year and at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:25.900" data-start="01:55:25.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">least in 1 year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:30.900" data-start="01:55:30.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:34.440" data-start="01:55:34.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the victorious. You really stepped up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:38.300" data-start="01:55:38.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:38.980" data-start="01:55:38.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:40.580" data-start="01:55:40.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:41.720" data-start="01:55:41.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">specifically you, Floey,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:43.480" data-start="01:55:43.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and just everyone. Thank you all.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:48.180" data-start="01:55:48.180" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:48.740" data-start="01:55:48.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">other. Bye!</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:51.220" data-start="01:55:51.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:51.880" data-start="01:55:51.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:53.800" data-start="01:55:53.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm the next newest, I think.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:55:59.640" data-start="01:55:59.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Well, I want to say also,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:01.800" data-start="01:56:01.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you know, Bob and Stefan,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:03.660" data-start="01:56:03.660" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">thank you so much for jumping in and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:04.860" data-start="01:56:04.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">participating in the closing remarks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:06.700" data-start="01:56:06.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I too think it's a lot of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:08.560" data-start="01:56:08.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, it's fun to just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:10.760" data-start="01:56:10.760" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like, share the buzz after the convention.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:13.260" data-start="01:56:13.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We've got all these millions of ideas and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:16.120" data-start="01:56:16.120" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">then to have a group, a little group think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:18.960" data-start="01:56:18.960" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about what we're walking away from that with.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:22.360" data-start="01:56:22.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">What is the temperature of the fire in your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:24.360" data-start="01:56:24.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">belly? And it's just...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:28.440" data-start="01:56:28.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I mean, this is 1 of the highlights of my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:30.200" data-start="01:56:30.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">year in a way that it's just...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:31.780" data-start="01:56:31.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't think other people...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:33.880" data-start="01:56:33.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't think I dare explain it to other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:35.880" data-start="01:56:35.880" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">people. I think my wife understands and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:40.600" data-start="01:56:40.600" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">will do. So thank you very much for this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:42.340" data-start="01:56:42.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference and the opportunity to participate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:45.540" data-start="01:56:45.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">in it. You know, just the conversation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:48.540" data-start="01:56:48.540" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">how vibrant the chat is on IRC,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:52.080" data-start="01:56:52.080" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">how the variety of talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:54.140" data-start="01:56:54.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">some of the talks that look like television</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:56:59.380" data-start="01:56:59.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">content to me and others that look a lot like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:03.840" data-start="01:57:03.840" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">my talk. And working through your slides and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:06.100" data-start="01:57:06.100" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">doing it live and you know I appreciate that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:10.240" data-start="01:57:10.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">we make a place for all those levels and and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:12.720" data-start="01:57:12.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">show people how to improve our craft as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:26.140" data-start="01:57:26.140" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm not actually dropping or going anywhere.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:29.040" data-start="01:57:29.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'll continue to talk about eMAX until I get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:30.860" data-start="01:57:30.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">the dinner time bell. I've probably got an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:40.240" data-start="01:57:40.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hour here. I'll tell you what will happen</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:42.040" data-start="01:57:42.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">though is I'm guaranteed to light a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:43.780" data-start="01:57:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">cigarette. You can already see me kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:45.860" data-start="01:57:45.860" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">hovering about my room because I'm trying to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:47.440" data-start="01:57:47.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">avoid like smoking on camera.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:49.300" data-start="01:57:49.300" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know where that came from.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:52.360" data-start="01:57:52.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm giving it up in approximately 5 seconds.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:57:58.980" data-start="01:57:58.980" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:00.800" data-start="01:58:00.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It's possibly right here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:02.220" data-start="01:58:02.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'll work tomorrow.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:06.200" data-start="01:58:06.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:07.320" data-start="01:58:07.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I'm actually going camping,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:11.040" data-start="01:58:11.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Stefan. I know I've learned that this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:12.800" data-start="01:58:12.800" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">conference leaves me completely emotionally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:16.360" data-start="01:58:16.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">exhausted. I just like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:18.700" data-start="01:58:18.700" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I don't know, I watch all,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:20.820" data-start="01:58:20.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I feel like I just connect with all the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:23.440" data-start="01:58:23.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">like it's this time where I connect with all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:25.260" data-start="01:58:25.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">these people that spend as much time thinking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:26.580" data-start="01:58:26.580" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">about Emacs as I do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:31.480" data-start="01:58:31.480" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:32.440" data-start="01:58:32.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you have like, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:35.380" data-start="01:58:35.380" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that overflow error and just...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:38.000" data-start="01:58:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:41.720" data-start="01:58:41.720" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thank you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:45.200" data-start="01:58:45.200" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:47.360" data-start="01:58:47.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">then. Everyone can find the recordings if you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:48.640" data-start="01:58:48.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">want to keep the conversation going.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:51.900" data-start="01:58:51.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">There are meetups, there are people's blog</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:54.240" data-start="01:58:54.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">posts and video channels and mailing lists</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:55.320" data-start="01:58:55.320" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">and all those other things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:58:58.820" data-start="01:58:58.820" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I often I list a lot of meetups in Emacs news</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:00.680" data-start="01:59:00.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">so that's another great way to stay connected</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:02.560" data-start="01:59:02.560" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">through the year and we hope to see everybody</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:04.740" data-start="01:59:04.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">next year at EmacsConf 2024.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:11.260" data-start="01:59:11.260" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:16.740" data-start="01:59:16.740" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">everyone. Oh Sasha I think you were muted but</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:18.340" data-start="01:59:18.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">yes I was still there I assume that's what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:21.220" data-start="01:59:21.220" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">you just said. I lied.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:23.680" data-start="01:59:23.680" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I was staying around like Corwin was.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:25.440" data-start="01:59:25.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I just said goodbye, but then I wait in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:26.520" data-start="01:59:26.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">bushes, waiting for the ambush.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:29.340" data-start="01:59:29.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:32.780" data-start="01:59:32.780" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">speaking for myself. I wouldn't have guessed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:36.040" data-start="01:59:36.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">that would happen. All right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:36.340" data-start="01:59:36.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:37.360" data-start="01:59:37.360" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">I guess that's a wrap then.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:39.060" data-start="01:59:39.060" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Thank you, everyone, and see you next year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:43.440" data-start="01:59:43.440" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:45.340" data-start="01:59:45.340" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">Are we not? We are, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:47.400" data-start="01:59:47.400" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">We're definitely clear.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:48.040" data-start="01:59:48.040" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:49.240" data-start="01:59:49.240" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:50.640" data-start="01:59:50.640" data-video="qanda-emacsconf">It was wonderful to meet you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:51.900" data-start="01:59:51.900" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:59:56.520" data-start="01:59:56.520" data-video="qanda-emacsconf"></span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:sacha@sachachua.com?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20emacsconf%3A%20EmacsConf.org%3A%20How%20we%20use%20Org%20Mode%20and%20TRAMP%20to%20organize%20and%20run%20a%20multi-track%20conference">sacha@sachachua.com</a></p>
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The Emacsen family, the design of an Emacs and the importance of Lisp
https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/emacsen/
Copyright © 2023 Fermin
2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
2023-09-07T23:56:22Z
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<h1>The Emacsen family, the design of an Emacs and the importance of Lisp</h1>
<p>Fermin (he/him) - <a href="https://codeberg.org/sasanidas">https://codeberg.org/sasanidas</a></p>
<p>Format: 19-min talk; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room<br />
Status: TO_INDEX_QA</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="emacsen-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main.vtt" default />"""<track kind="chapters" label="Chapters" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main--chapters.vtt" /><p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><pre class="chapters" data-target="emacsen-mainVideo">
<p>00:00.000 Introduction
00:17.000 Why Lisp matters
01:26.640 Why Emacs Lisp was chosen
02:54.841 Other "Emacsen"
03:38.581 Why not Common Lisp?
06:39.120 Common Lisp is still not dead or is always dead
08:30.080 Lem is a nice Emacsen implementation
08:58.260 Why not just use GNU Emacs?
10:31.080 Why Lem
14:03.080 Similarities and differences
15:49.600 Demo</p>
</pre>
<div></div>Duration: 18:28 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--intro.vtt">Download --intro.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--intro.webm">Download --intro.webm</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main--chapters.vtt">Download --main--chapters.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main.opus">Download --main.opus (11MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--main.webm">Download --main.webm (32MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--pad.html">Download --pad.html</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--pad.md">Download --pad.md</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/qgJ84RLV2FZYyeSusDskwU">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="emacsen-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="emacsen-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div>Duration: 1:08:14 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (39MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a> (unedited)</li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (253MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
<p><details class="help"><summary>Help wanted: Q&A could be indexed with chapter markers </summary></p>
<p>The Q&A session for this talk does not have chapter markers yet.
Would you like to help? See <span class="selflink">help with chapter markers</span> for more details. You can use the vidid="emacsen-qanda" if adding the markers to this wiki page, or e-mail your chapter notes to <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.</p>
<p>(If you want to work on this and you think it might take you a while, you can reserve this task by editing the page and adding volunteer="your-name date" or by e-mailing <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.)</p>
<p></details></p>
<p>This talk is about the design of an Emacs the Emacsen editors, GNU
Emacs, Emacs Lisp and the extensibility of GNU Emacs (and Lem as an
example of Common Lisp). I want to focus the talk about the understand
of the concept of Emacs but with concrete examples (GNU Emacs and
Lem), also highlight some historical Emacsen and how the family of
editors is doing today.</p>
<p>About the speaker:</p>
<p>I'm Fermin MF, I'm a Software Engineer from Spain with interest in
Emacsy editors.</p>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: How large is the LEM community? How big is the chance of it
surviving long term?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Are there any Lisp machine capabilities you are trying to revive
that GNU Emacs lacks? The typed objects capability in the editor as
an example.
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: What about using Lem for things other than coding common lisp,
dired magit "notes org mode dentoe org roam" emms pdf tools shell
mode?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:What about using this in conjunction with Nyxt the common lisp;
web browser
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: What is the license of LEM?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Big question, I realize, but: How far is LEM from being able to
run Elisp libraries, e.g. imagine if Magit could "just work" in
LEM?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: How are LEM buffers designed? Similar to Emacs? TextGrid with
Properties? Or something other? I just tried again to give Emacs
more interactivity & am thinking if there is a possible display
future for the Emacsen.</li>
<li>Q: What are the things or experances that lem gives you that are
nicer than Emacs? or make you happy using both?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: (Forgive me if you answered this already.) Do you think Lem will
continue to have a lot of Japanese documentation, or is there a
chance it will move entirely to English? (IMHO having much of the
docs in Japanese will hold back the project.)
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="emacsen-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsen" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">[00:00:00.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Introduction</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.000" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Hello, my name is Fermin.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:03.200" data-start="00:00:03.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Today, I'm going to talk about the Emacsen family,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.960" data-start="00:00:06.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the design of an Emacs, and the importance of Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:11.160" data-start="00:00:11.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So we're going to talk about Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:13.520" data-start="00:00:13.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I want to start from the end.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsen" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:17.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">[00:00:17.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:17.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Why Lisp matters</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:17.000" data-start="00:00:17.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">The first question I want to ask is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:19.040" data-start="00:00:19.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">why I think Lisp matters.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:21.400" data-start="00:00:21.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">When I'm talking about Lisp here,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:22.880" data-start="00:00:22.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I'm talking about the idea of Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:27.560" data-start="00:00:27.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">so the family of languages that are Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.120" data-start="00:00:30.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">But given that there's no formal specification of Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:34.720" data-start="00:00:34.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">so the opinion might vary. I will expect that Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:40.600" data-start="00:00:40.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">most of the Lisp have these kind of features.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:44.440" data-start="00:00:44.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">The first one is homoiconic:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:46.240" data-start="00:00:46.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the code is data, basically.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:49.800" data-start="00:00:49.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">They also have a REPL: read-eval-print loop.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:52.560" data-start="00:00:52.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">That is very powerful and can help in development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:57.760" data-start="00:00:57.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Also, I think a good Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:00.360" data-start="00:01:00.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">should have a powerful macro system.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:03.320" data-start="00:01:03.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I'm good with compile-time macros,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.760" data-start="00:01:05.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but read-time is also interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:07.600" data-start="00:01:07.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">There's a lot of Lisp that you can choose.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:10.280" data-start="00:01:10.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">There's the main three ones, of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:12.000" data-start="00:01:12.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">with Scheme, Common Lisp, and Clojure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:13.840" data-start="00:01:13.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Scheme by Guile, Common Lisp by Common Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:19.675" data-start="00:01:19.675" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and Clojure by Clojure or ClojureScript.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsen" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:26.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">[00:01:26.640]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:26.640" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Why Emacs Lisp was chosen</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:26.640" data-start="00:01:26.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So let's talk about Emacs Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:28.080" data-start="00:01:28.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I didn't mention Emacs Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:29.680" data-start="00:01:29.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I'm going to talk about why Emacs Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.520" data-start="00:01:32.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">was chosen for an Emacs editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:35.600" data-start="00:01:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">We're going to explore this kind of design of the Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:39.160" data-start="00:01:39.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">And Emacs Lisp is the main language of it. Why?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.280" data-start="00:01:42.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Given that there were a few alternatives at the time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:44.960" data-start="00:01:44.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">why Emacs Lisp was chosen?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.160" data-start="00:01:48.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So RMS, Richard Stallman, needed a Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:51.920" data-start="00:01:51.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and there wasn't one available at the time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:54.280" data-start="00:01:54.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Keep in mind, this was the early 80s.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:57.040" data-start="00:01:57.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Stallman was writing at that point the GCC, I think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.241" data-start="00:02:03.241" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and he was writing the core components</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:07.975" data-start="00:02:07.975" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">of what is going to become GNU.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:10.441" data-start="00:02:10.441" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">He needed an editor. He wanted Lisp. He wanted Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.500" data-start="00:02:15.500" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So he wrote Emacs Lisp. So at that time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:20.281" data-start="00:02:20.281" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the functionality was more important than "perfection."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.600" data-start="00:02:24.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">What I mean [by] "perfection" is: we programmers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:26.640" data-start="00:02:26.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">sometimes like to make everything good</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:33.360" data-start="00:02:33.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">or very, very good when sometimes, indeed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:36.480" data-start="00:02:36.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">it's more important that it works</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.120" data-start="00:02:39.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">to do the task that it should.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:42.920" data-start="00:02:42.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">And it's not a bad language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:44.200" data-start="00:02:44.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's not that bad. At that time, it was mostly nice.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:50.240" data-start="00:02:50.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Today, it's good enough, I think.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsen" class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:00.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">[00:11:00.040]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:11:00.040" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">to [do] day-to-day programming</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:02.040" data-start="00:11:02.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">in a very good experience.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:04.560" data-start="00:11:04.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is not like--I want to clarify this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:06.280" data-start="00:11:06.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">because some people bring some exploratory projects.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.720" data-start="00:11:08.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is not that one. This is finished.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:10.800" data-start="00:11:10.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Well, finished in the way that you can use it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:14.720" data-start="00:11:14.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's not, you know, have everything in place.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:17.800" data-start="00:11:17.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So let's continue.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:20.640" data-start="00:11:20.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's written 100% in Common Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:22.160" data-start="00:11:22.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I say this because Emacs is not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:23.840" data-start="00:11:23.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">100% in Emacs Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:26.280" data-start="00:11:26.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">You have to modify the C code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:28.360" data-start="00:11:28.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I think, well, if you... You don't have to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:31.840" data-start="00:11:31.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but if you want to change the internals, you do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:34.000" data-start="00:11:34.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I think that given that Lem does not care</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.880" data-start="00:11:38.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">about the implementation of the language itself--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:41.200" data-start="00:11:41.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">so for example, Lem doesn't have to deal with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:44.040" data-start="00:11:44.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">how Common Lisp works, it just used the language, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:48.200" data-start="00:11:48.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's on top of the language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:50.800" data-start="00:11:50.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">You can say that. Emacs Lisp is Emacs and Emacs Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:53.880" data-start="00:11:53.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">so you have to, you have both in the same place,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.080" data-start="00:11:56.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is, well, it's a double-edged sword, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.320" data-start="00:12:00.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Then you have the both--similar to Emacs--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.320" data-start="00:12:03.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">you have ncurses and SDL2 frontends.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:05.640" data-start="00:12:05.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">One is terminal-based and the other is graphical</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:08.720" data-start="00:12:08.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">using the SDL2 library,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:10.400" data-start="00:12:10.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which you can do a lot of crazy things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:13.760" data-start="00:12:13.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Of course, it's meant to program games and stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:16.160" data-start="00:12:16.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but Lem uses, and it works fairly well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:19.680" data-start="00:12:19.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">You can program games if you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:21.880" data-start="00:12:21.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Not that you need to or anything, but we have Tetris.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:27.560" data-start="00:12:27.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So there's that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:29.000" data-start="00:12:29.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Also, separate front-end interface.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:31.720" data-start="00:12:31.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So like I said, you have two, but you can create more.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:34.160" data-start="00:12:34.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">In the past, had an electron one,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:36.440" data-start="00:12:36.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but it got abandoned for obvious reasons, I think. Sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:41.320" data-start="00:12:41.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This idea is taken from Neovim that had a lot of frontends.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:45.840" data-start="00:12:45.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">In fact, we don't have that many,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:48.120" data-start="00:12:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but not that many people we have two.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:49.640" data-start="00:12:49.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">That works fairly well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.675" data-start="00:12:51.675" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">We have superb development experience thanks to SLIME.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.680" data-start="00:12:56.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So we have Micro,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:01.320" data-start="00:13:01.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is a SLIME version for Lem, basically.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:04.040" data-start="00:13:04.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">SLIME is awesome and Micro is also awesome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.000" data-start="00:13:09.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">We have a very strong development experience</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:12.320" data-start="00:13:12.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">that we don't have for a Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:15.400" data-start="00:13:15.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which I think is very important.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:17.400" data-start="00:13:17.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">If you want someone to develop packages or to use your tool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:20.320" data-start="00:13:20.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">your Emacs at least,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:22.720" data-start="00:13:22.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">you need to have a very good development experience,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:28.760" data-start="00:13:28.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which enhance the extensions for the editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:34.040" data-start="00:13:34.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So we have also Vim-like integration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:36.720" data-start="00:13:36.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This for me was mostly mandatory</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:39.400" data-start="00:13:39.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">because I'm an evil-mode user, and I think it's really good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:44.440" data-start="00:13:44.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Because evil-mode is very good and the VMode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:49.480" data-start="00:13:49.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which it's called, even though it's more like Vim mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:51.720" data-start="00:13:51.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">it's called VMode. It's written by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:54.160" data-start="00:13:54.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Fukamachi-san and it's really good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:59.160" data-start="00:13:59.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So yeah, that's the thing that I think Lem brings to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.960" data-start="00:14:01.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the table and that's really interesting.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsen" class="subtitle" data-start="00:14:03.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">[00:14:03.080]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:14:03.080" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Similarities and differences</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:14:03.080" data-start="00:14:03.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So I'm going to do a small demo of Lem, a Emacs example.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:10.520" data-start="00:14:10.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">First, the similarities,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:11.680" data-start="00:14:11.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the nomenclature is very similar: modes, buffers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:14.120" data-start="00:14:14.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">commands... The commands are very similar in nature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:17.440" data-start="00:14:17.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It was written with GNU Emacs in mind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:20.040" data-start="00:14:20.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">to mimic a lot of things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:24.360" data-start="00:14:24.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I think GNU Emacs is the best Emacs implementation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:29.080" data-start="00:14:29.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">in that way. So why not just take what is working, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:33.720" data-start="00:14:33.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I have similar command,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:35.600" data-start="00:14:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but flexible to add other default ones.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:39.400" data-start="00:14:39.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's not like Emacs that you have Emacs commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:42.400" data-start="00:14:42.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Lem has Emacs command by default,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:45.160" data-start="00:14:45.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but you can easily change that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:47.760" data-start="00:14:47.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">with other default ones, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:49.920" data-start="00:14:49.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's like, you can think of it like a major mode, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:52.160" data-start="00:14:52.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Well, more like a global mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:54.440" data-start="00:14:54.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">sorry. That's a global mode of Emacs commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:57.961" data-start="00:14:57.961" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">or something like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:59.361" data-start="00:14:59.361" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">In general, the feeling is really close.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:01.520" data-start="00:15:01.520" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So you will tell that it's really close to how both work,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:05.920" data-start="00:15:05.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">similar commands, and that shows.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:07.840" data-start="00:15:07.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Differences, Common Lisp is not Emacs Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:12.360" data-start="00:15:12.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">it's similar in the surface.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:13.920" data-start="00:15:13.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So it uses <code>defun</code>, you know, have parentheses</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:16.280" data-start="00:15:16.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and yada, yada, but it's not the same language, really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:18.720" data-start="00:15:18.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and sometimes you will find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:20.840" data-start="00:15:20.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">that the differences are substantial.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:23.260" data-start="00:15:23.260" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">The internals are completely different,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:24.860" data-start="00:15:24.860" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">of course, nothing, well, completely.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:27.480" data-start="00:15:27.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">They have a buffer implementation and other things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:29.720" data-start="00:15:29.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">but in general, yeah, aside from that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.360" data-start="00:15:32.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">it's completely different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:34.080" data-start="00:15:34.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">And it's true that GNU Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.200" data-start="00:15:36.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">has a better documentation tutorial.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:37.480" data-start="00:15:37.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So GNU Emacs for me, I think it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:39.720" data-start="00:15:39.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">one of the best-documented software ever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:41.760" data-start="00:15:41.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">We're trying to go there, but we're still not there.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-emacsen" class="subtitle" data-start="00:15:49.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">[00:15:49.600]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:15:49.600" title="" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Demo</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:15:49.600" data-start="00:15:49.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Let's do the demo. So to open Lem, you compile it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:54.080" data-start="00:15:54.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and then you have it available,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:55.760" data-start="00:15:55.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and you open Lem. As you can see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:57.720" data-start="00:15:57.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">we have the temporary buffer. On the top left is the mode--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:00.840" data-start="00:16:00.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">not mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:03.280" data-start="00:16:03.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the beam, insert, normal, visual. This is the V mode, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:07.240" data-start="00:16:07.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">In the top right corner, we have fundamental,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:10.280" data-start="00:16:10.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is the major mode, then paredit,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:11.600" data-start="00:16:11.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is like the minor mode, but you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.080" data-start="00:16:15.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">this is like the paredit for Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:16.080" data-start="00:16:16.080" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">In the top left buffer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:19.200" data-start="00:16:19.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">you have the current buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:22.480" data-start="00:16:22.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So let's open the... Emacs, we all know how to do this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:26.480" data-start="00:16:26.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is a command, like explore this command,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:29.320" data-start="00:16:29.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">like <code>open-init-file</code>. This opens the init file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:31.480" data-start="00:16:31.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is in this directory, in <code>~/.lem/init.lisp</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:34.320" data-start="00:16:34.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">As you can see, this is very similar, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:38.240" data-start="00:16:38.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">You define a command, which is not interactive,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:40.280" data-start="00:16:40.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and then you get the buffer, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:42.960" data-start="00:16:42.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is a... So my personal command...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:44.920" data-start="00:16:44.920" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Let's go to the one that I just opened. Init file, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:48.880" data-start="00:16:48.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So this is a command that I did,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:52.160" data-start="00:16:52.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is <code>find-file</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:53.440" data-start="00:16:53.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is very similar to [??], but just <code>find-file</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:56.600" data-start="00:16:56.600" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">As you can see, very similar.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:58.400" data-start="00:16:58.400" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is the way that you program in Lem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:01.760" data-start="00:17:01.760" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is the major mode, which is Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:04.840" data-start="00:17:04.840" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">that we're seeing at the top, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:06.960" data-start="00:17:06.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">And we can connect if we <code>slime-self-connect</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:10.480" data-start="00:17:10.480" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is the prompt. This is the REPL.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:14.120" data-start="00:17:14.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So if we... Keep in mind that this is Common Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:17.960" data-start="00:17:17.960" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">so this has different things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:20.440" data-start="00:17:20.440" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So we have to go to the Lem package,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:22.720" data-start="00:17:22.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which is very important. This has namespaces, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:26.200" data-start="00:17:26.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's not the same. And we can say, okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:29.040" data-start="00:17:29.040" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen"><code>current-buffer</code>. We get the buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:32.320" data-start="00:17:32.320" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">We can explore everything that is in it, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:35.200" data-start="00:17:35.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">We have all this stuff. This is... If you're familiar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:38.560" data-start="00:17:38.560" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">with SLIME or Sly, this is it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:41.160" data-start="00:17:41.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">It's just that we can say, buffer, I think it's <code>buffer-name</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:46.280" data-start="00:17:46.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Yes. And we can take this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:49.160" data-start="00:17:49.160" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and then we'll give you the name.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:50.800" data-start="00:17:50.800" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So as you can see, the development experience</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:54.360" data-start="00:17:54.360" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">is really powerful. We can also <code>lisp-scratch</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:57.640" data-start="00:17:57.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">which transform... basically apply</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.680" data-start="00:18:00.680" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the major mode of Lisp to the temporary buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:02.640" data-start="00:18:02.640" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">This is very similar to Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:06.720" data-start="00:18:06.720" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Let's go back to the theme. I think that's it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:12.000" data-start="00:18:12.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Thank you all very much for listening to me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:13.880" data-start="00:18:13.880" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I think I point out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.240" data-start="00:18:15.240" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">the Emacsen family is really interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:17.000" data-start="00:18:17.000" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">Lisp is really good, and GNU Emacs is really good,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:19.280" data-start="00:18:19.280" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">and I think Lem is also pretty awesome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:21.200" data-start="00:18:21.200" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">So thank you all very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.120" data-start="00:18:23.120" data-video="mainVideo-emacsen">I'll be answering the question now. And happy hacking.</span></p>
<p>Captioner: sachac</p>
<p><a name="emacsen-qanda-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.040" data-start="00:00:00.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:05.140" data-start="00:00:05.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.279" data-start="00:00:06.279" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Fermin, for the great talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:08.039" data-start="00:00:08.039" data-video="qanda-emacsen">People have questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:12.179" data-start="00:00:12.179" data-video="qanda-emacsen">please post them on the pad or the IRC as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:13.259" data-start="00:00:13.259" data-video="qanda-emacsen">well and we'll take them up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:17.240" data-start="00:00:17.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:21.720" data-start="00:00:21.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to answer questions. Let's see.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:23.560" data-start="00:00:23.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yep.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:28.080" data-start="00:00:28.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.660" data-start="00:00:30.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">clarify anything or fix any URLs or such,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:32.860" data-start="00:00:32.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you're always welcome to do that either like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:36.000" data-start="00:00:36.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:37.560" data-start="00:00:37.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the organizers, they should be able to help</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:38.400" data-start="00:00:38.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with that as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:41.000" data-start="00:00:41.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:46.020" data-start="00:00:46.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah, not a big deal really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:48.480" data-start="00:00:48.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">if you look it up. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:50.940" data-start="00:00:50.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that's really better. Thank you very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:56.920" data-start="00:00:56.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Checking, no questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.780" data-start="00:00:58.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Very good to be in touch.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:17.220" data-start="00:01:17.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:17.720" data-start="00:01:17.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">button chat.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:21.820" data-start="00:01:21.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:26.380" data-start="00:01:26.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Is LEM an acronym? I think it is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.960" data-start="00:01:32.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I never remember. The complete name is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.160" data-start="00:01:36.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like something... It's also a circle,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:38.940" data-start="00:01:38.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like, you know, a self-referencing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:41.320" data-start="00:01:41.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you know, recursive name.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.900" data-start="00:01:42.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I never remember it, sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.860" data-start="00:01:45.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's like... Yeah, someone...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.580" data-start="00:01:50.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Okay, someone asked about the DEM community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:56.200" data-start="00:01:56.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">how big it is. So I don't remember,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:57.500" data-start="00:01:57.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to answer the question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:58.440" data-start="00:01:58.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't remember the acronym,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:00.640" data-start="00:02:00.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it is an acronym. I just never...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:04.700" data-start="00:02:04.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And it's not written anywhere,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:06.380" data-start="00:02:06.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think, or someone...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.340" data-start="00:02:09.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I never check it. So I...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.720" data-start="00:02:12.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.360" data-start="00:02:15.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:17.540" data-start="00:02:17.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">whole large, does Leia have a package</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:19.800" data-start="00:02:19.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">manager? We do have a package manager,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:21.900" data-start="00:02:21.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:26.200" data-start="00:02:26.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">infrastructure to get packages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:29.580" data-start="00:02:29.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so it's very easy to install packages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:33.340" data-start="00:02:33.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So basically, we don't have a package manager</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:35.740" data-start="00:02:35.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">as in Emacs, half a packet.l.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.140" data-start="00:02:39.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">We're using the same common list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:41.180" data-start="00:02:41.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">infrastructure to provide the different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:45.560" data-start="00:02:45.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">packages. We also have a talk with the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:47.360" data-start="00:02:47.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Ultralisp, which is like a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.640" data-start="00:02:48.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you know, QuickLisp is like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:50.020" data-start="00:02:50.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you can think quickly of Melpa.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:52.540" data-start="00:02:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:54.440" data-start="00:02:54.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">very fast Melpa, that every,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:58.460" data-start="00:02:58.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think every day you can get a package from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:01.720" data-start="00:03:01.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">them. And We have a tag system that you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:02.920" data-start="00:03:02.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">submit a package and get a tag,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:08.180" data-start="00:03:08.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and Theory can download those packages with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:13.140" data-start="00:03:13.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the lem tag. So the thing is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:17.040" data-start="00:03:17.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's not yet, it doesn't have a user</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:18.400" data-start="00:03:18.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">interface to install packages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.020" data-start="00:03:22.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Still, it's 2 external packages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.520" data-start="00:03:25.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">For now, imagine this is like the early</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:27.560" data-start="00:03:27.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:29.040" data-start="00:03:29.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for now, because we need that functionality.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:32.360" data-start="00:03:32.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">In the future, we probably will split it up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:37.120" data-start="00:03:37.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">way more. But let me first answer a question</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.440" data-start="00:03:42.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in the other part. How large is the LEN</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:44.440" data-start="00:03:44.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">community? Hope it's a chance of survival</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:47.360" data-start="00:03:47.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">long term. So we are a very small community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:51.260" data-start="00:03:51.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mostly because Sasaki-san,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:54.120" data-start="00:03:54.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the main developers of the community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:57.160" data-start="00:03:57.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">are from Japan and some of them,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:58.620" data-start="00:03:58.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">or most of them, don't know English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.640" data-start="00:04:01.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">At the beginning, LEM was a very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:05.020" data-start="00:04:05.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:06.960" data-start="00:04:06.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">language, most of the users are from Japan.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:08.640" data-start="00:04:08.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So different communities.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:12.040" data-start="00:04:12.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And also, I don't know why,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:13.100" data-start="00:04:13.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but the main maintainer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:17.740" data-start="00:04:17.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:19.079" data-start="00:04:19.079" data-video="qanda-emacsen">very talented developer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:21.779" data-start="00:04:21.779" data-video="qanda-emacsen">He doesn't like to, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:24.640" data-start="00:04:24.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">at first the project was all in Japanese,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.100" data-start="00:04:27.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so he doesn't care if someone uses the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:28.520" data-start="00:04:28.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">project or not. He's more focused on the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:32.080" data-start="00:04:32.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I guess, quality of the features of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:35.740" data-start="00:04:35.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So that creates a problem that doesn't really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:38.680" data-start="00:04:38.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mind the community. So the community doesn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:41.640" data-start="00:04:41.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mind in a good way. It's to focus more on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:43.440" data-start="00:04:43.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">technicality rather than the user,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:46.300" data-start="00:04:46.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which I mean, I cannot blame him.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:49.540" data-start="00:04:49.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's very hard work to build an Emacs and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.540" data-start="00:04:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:56.160" data-start="00:04:56.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So yeah, we're a very small community.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.660" data-start="00:04:58.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But I think the chance of survival is very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:01.440" data-start="00:05:01.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">good because LEM is written in ANSI Common</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:04.540" data-start="00:05:04.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Lisp, so it should be used in any...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:07.440" data-start="00:05:07.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:10.400" data-start="00:05:10.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">implementation. For people who don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:12.180" data-start="00:05:12.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Common Lisp is a language that was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:13.140" data-start="00:05:13.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">standardized in the 94.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:14.640" data-start="00:05:14.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I explained that in the talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:15.660" data-start="00:05:15.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I'll say it again.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:18.080" data-start="00:05:18.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So, if Common Lisp exists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:21.200" data-start="00:05:21.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in theory, LEM should also exist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.340" data-start="00:05:24.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:27.560" data-start="00:05:27.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stop to exist, which is even less likely.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:30.400" data-start="00:05:30.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So that's the main idea.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.460" data-start="00:05:33.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.380" data-start="00:05:36.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">development already. If Common Lisp doesn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:39.440" data-start="00:05:39.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">change that much, it should disappear.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:42.720" data-start="00:05:42.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">We are not bound to any company or any...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:46.040" data-start="00:05:46.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Even Sasaki-san, God forbid,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:47.720" data-start="00:05:47.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">disappears instantaneously.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:50.280" data-start="00:05:50.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">There are a few people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:52.260" data-start="00:05:52.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">me included, that know very well the code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.020" data-start="00:05:54.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">base and we can continue the development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.320" data-start="00:05:56.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So it's not like 1, there's no one-man</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:58.860" data-start="00:05:58.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">project. Maybe a four-man project or 5,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:04.280" data-start="00:06:04.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:08.100" data-start="00:06:08.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">chat, on the blue button.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:10.520" data-start="00:06:10.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Is it best to learn Common Lisp before</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:13.100" data-start="00:06:13.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">learning to use LEM? I think this is similar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:15.780" data-start="00:06:15.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to Emacs and EmacLisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:18.740" data-start="00:06:18.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">right? Should you use EmacLisp before using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:20.160" data-start="00:06:20.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:23.360" data-start="00:06:23.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">right? You see Emacs and then you go learning</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:28.620" data-start="00:06:28.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Common Lisp. I think it's the same,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:30.800" data-start="00:06:30.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:32.800" data-start="00:06:32.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can start using LEM with a non-common</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:37.800" data-start="00:06:37.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:39.020" data-start="00:06:39.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">your things. It's like an editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:42.900" data-start="00:06:42.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:46.820" data-start="00:06:46.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">extensibility. So it's very probable that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:49.920" data-start="00:06:49.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">will learn how to write Common Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:53.440" data-start="00:06:53.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I have to say that a lot of people that use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:56.000" data-start="00:06:56.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">LEM, well, me and most of the people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:59.060" data-start="00:06:59.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.620" data-start="00:07:00.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:04.820" data-start="00:07:04.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:07.120" data-start="00:07:07.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">distance that shares some similarities.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:09.820" data-start="00:07:09.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So you will... Well, it's not going to be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:12.520" data-start="00:07:12.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that. I can show... Sorry about that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:14.960" data-start="00:07:14.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">For example, I show that in the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:21.780" data-start="00:07:21.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I can show... So the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:27.080" data-start="00:07:27.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's not that different from Emacs regarding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:28.940" data-start="00:07:28.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">configuration. So for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:31.020" data-start="00:07:31.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this command doesn't exist on LEM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:35.020" data-start="00:07:35.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:36.360" data-start="00:07:36.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the command from Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:39.660" data-start="00:07:39.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the airgrip, the cursor grip command of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:41.120" data-start="00:07:41.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs. And I said, okay,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:43.080" data-start="00:07:43.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">then I'm going to implement it myself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.240" data-start="00:07:44.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And it's something like this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:47.960" data-start="00:07:47.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is you will do something similar to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:50.320" data-start="00:07:50.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs, right? This will be like things at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:52.280" data-start="00:07:52.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">point symbol or something like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:54.740" data-start="00:07:54.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And then you have a prompt,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.060" data-start="00:07:59.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">very prompt for directory with Emacs would be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:01.260" data-start="00:08:01.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">something similar. And then you then launch</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:02.960" data-start="00:08:02.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">grep with the command that you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:06.340" data-start="00:08:06.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">This is not that far from Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:10.680" data-start="00:08:10.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this, really. If you don't know neither of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.740" data-start="00:08:12.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">those, you can still use LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:16.560" data-start="00:08:16.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">though as with Emacs, extensibility will be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.440" data-start="00:08:22.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">well, you couldn't extend it if you don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:28.700" data-start="00:08:28.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">know combo disp. Should I answer the question</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:33.280" data-start="00:08:33.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">on the etherpad writing it at the same time?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:36.580" data-start="00:08:36.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:38.000" data-start="00:08:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can just answer here on stream,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:40.440" data-start="00:08:40.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:43.140" data-start="00:08:43.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:45.020" data-start="00:08:45.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you're trying to provide that GNU image</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.920" data-start="00:08:46.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">lacks? The type objects capability in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:47.560" data-start="00:08:47.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">editor, as an example.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:53.840" data-start="00:08:53.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, there were a few discussions about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:59.920" data-start="00:08:59.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:03.080" data-start="00:09:03.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">projects that tries to get some capability of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:05.180" data-start="00:09:05.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it. But we don't really...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:09.840" data-start="00:09:09.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">We try to improve the development experience</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:12.800" data-start="00:09:12.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for Common Lisp and for LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:18.460" data-start="00:09:18.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">imitating a lot of things that the Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:21.560" data-start="00:09:21.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:23.400" data-start="00:09:23.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that I don't know if it's going to work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:26.880" data-start="00:09:26.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So to explain this, let's see.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:35.680" data-start="00:09:35.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm going to recompile them now live.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:42.040" data-start="00:09:42.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Let's see how it works.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.860" data-start="00:09:47.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And compiling the, yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:51.780" data-start="00:09:51.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it doesn't work. OK. What if I do?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:53.900" data-start="00:09:53.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">No, it doesn't work. OK.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:55.280" data-start="00:09:55.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I was trying to compile the SDL2,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:57.540" data-start="00:09:57.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I do have the codebase modifier.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:00.360" data-start="00:10:00.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I should be able to compile this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:05.640" data-start="00:10:05.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Oh, that was really bad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:13.320" data-start="00:10:13.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">What about example? I have the code base,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.220" data-start="00:10:17.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so let me check. I'm going to do this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:19.080" data-start="00:10:19.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Oh, yeah, I have this modified.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:31.120" data-start="00:10:31.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I stash this. OK. I have this modified.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:33.280" data-start="00:10:33.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Now it should work. OK.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:42.480" data-start="00:10:42.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Sorry. I was going to show the writing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:45.620" data-start="00:10:45.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:47.800" data-start="00:10:47.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">machine of navigating of classes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:52.000" data-start="00:10:52.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So the answer of that question is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:57.040" data-start="00:10:57.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">not really. We don't try to emulate this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:58.440" data-start="00:10:58.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">machine, nor any like of that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:05.500" data-start="00:11:05.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:07.120" data-start="00:11:07.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">okay, now I'm back at them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.180" data-start="00:11:12.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Okay. So what about using them for things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:13.260" data-start="00:11:13.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">other than common, common,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.160" data-start="00:11:16.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that markets? Okay. So yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:18.280" data-start="00:11:18.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we do have, so I'm going to show the code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:20.280" data-start="00:11:20.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">base a little bit. Like I said before,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:25.120" data-start="00:11:25.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we don't have yet too much external packages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:26.500" data-start="00:11:26.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because of the size of the community.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:30.720" data-start="00:11:30.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I have a question. Go ahead,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:32.160" data-start="00:11:32.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you can write it, Michael.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:37.840" data-start="00:11:37.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:43.900" data-start="00:11:43.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:46.160" data-start="00:11:46.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we have. We use the same terminology of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:47.640" data-start="00:11:47.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">SkinnyMemax in that way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.120" data-start="00:11:49.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">For example, the C mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:51.460" data-start="00:11:51.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">if you go inside, you see that this is the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:53.600" data-start="00:11:53.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">fine major mode. So in that regard,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:54.800" data-start="00:11:54.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's very similar to Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.600" data-start="00:11:56.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And we have something called a JIT,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:58.320" data-start="00:11:58.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is like a maggot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.280" data-start="00:12:00.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And you can edit files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:02.500" data-start="00:12:02.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can use not only for common lists.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:06.820" data-start="00:12:06.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">In my configuration, which is written,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:11.140" data-start="00:12:11.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I will post that later,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.480" data-start="00:12:15.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but if you go to my code burg you can see my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:16.460" data-start="00:12:16.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">configuration which is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:20.460" data-start="00:12:20.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which I do have. So for example you can use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:22.260" data-start="00:12:22.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it for a scheme. We have a swank server.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:24.240" data-start="00:12:24.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">This is the configuration to use it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:25.900" data-start="00:12:25.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can use it for JavaScript because we have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:28.180" data-start="00:12:28.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">a native LSP client written in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:29.540" data-start="00:12:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And we have Dired. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:33.820" data-start="00:12:33.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this is Dired. We have Dired indeed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.560" data-start="00:12:35.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">No, it's not Dired, you know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:36.260" data-start="00:12:36.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's called directory.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:38.860" data-start="00:12:38.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:43.100" data-start="00:12:43.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:48.700" data-start="00:12:48.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but we are the same. We also have projects,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.780" data-start="00:12:51.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is like projectile.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:55.120" data-start="00:12:55.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So, you know, they're very similar but not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.940" data-start="00:12:56.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the same. We also have a VI configuration,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:59.220" data-start="00:12:59.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:00.100" data-start="00:13:00.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stuff, and it's very good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:03.940" data-start="00:13:03.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I will say not as good as an evil because it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:06.680" data-start="00:13:06.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">still needs some polish,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:08.000" data-start="00:13:08.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it's getting there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.780" data-start="00:13:13.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So we can also program in JavaScript and a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:16.160" data-start="00:13:16.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">lot of LSP things, and Elixir,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:18.600" data-start="00:13:18.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which was recently added by myself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:21.580" data-start="00:13:21.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:27.440" data-start="00:13:27.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">OK, what else next? What about user-level</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:28.440" data-start="00:13:28.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">things other than coding?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:31.720" data-start="00:13:31.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">What about using this in conjunction with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:34.340" data-start="00:13:34.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Nix? Oh, so there's a big,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:36.980" data-start="00:13:36.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so like I said before,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:40.080" data-start="00:13:40.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">there were like an issue that 3 main common</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:40.960" data-start="00:13:40.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">list project were talking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:46.920" data-start="00:13:46.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">some of the users. So the 3 main projects are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:49.340" data-start="00:13:49.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:52.600" data-start="00:13:52.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the 3 main, well, 3 big,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:55.280" data-start="00:13:55.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">common list projects that are trying to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:57.720" data-start="00:13:57.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">emulate an Emacs experience in different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:00.100" data-start="00:14:00.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.720" data-start="00:14:01.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Manager, and the 1 is the browser.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:06.560" data-start="00:14:06.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The problem is that the design of the 3 are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:11.680" data-start="00:14:11.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">very different. So Nix is very focused on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:14.900" data-start="00:14:14.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">browser. You can connect to Nix.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:16.720" data-start="00:14:16.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So given that they're both a common list,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:18.940" data-start="00:14:18.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you can connect to Nix from them and vice</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.420" data-start="00:14:21.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">versa. And you can send commands and you can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:22.580" data-start="00:14:22.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so you have this kind of interoperability</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:31.420" data-start="00:14:31.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with both. But no, you cannot combine both to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:35.280" data-start="00:14:35.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:39.400" data-start="00:14:39.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I would love it. But the effort is just too</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:41.000" data-start="00:14:41.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">much. Keep in mind we are a very small</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:44.960" data-start="00:14:44.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">community. The LEM, like I said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:49.920" data-start="00:14:49.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we are like 345 developers that write</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:51.880" data-start="00:14:51.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">packages and answer questions and stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:55.380" data-start="00:14:55.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Now we need users in that way to test things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:58.480" data-start="00:14:58.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So what is the license of LEM?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:00.480" data-start="00:15:00.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The license of LEM is MAT.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:02.860" data-start="00:15:02.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">We have some components of all the various</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:04.480" data-start="00:15:04.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">licenses, but the main 1 is MAT.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:07.160" data-start="00:15:07.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I didn't choose the license of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:11.320" data-start="00:15:11.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:13.500" data-start="00:15:13.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but like I said I'm not a maintainer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:15.860" data-start="00:15:15.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so the license is MAT.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:19.820" data-start="00:15:19.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">This question, I realize,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:22.120" data-start="00:15:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">how far is LEM from being able to remove a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:26.500" data-start="00:15:26.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">list libraries? OK, that's a big question</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:30.660" data-start="00:15:30.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">indeed. And Funny enough,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:31.800" data-start="00:15:31.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">2 years ago in the EmacsConf,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:34.340" data-start="00:15:34.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I talk about this, not with LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.340" data-start="00:15:36.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:41.880" data-start="00:15:41.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:44.100" data-start="00:15:44.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:46.740" data-start="00:15:46.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:48.120" data-start="00:15:48.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">interpreter to work with them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:52.240" data-start="00:15:52.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The thing is that Emaclist libraries,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:55.080" data-start="00:15:55.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so the API is just very different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:57.720" data-start="00:15:57.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That's the main problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:58.940" data-start="00:15:58.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That's really the problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:02.320" data-start="00:16:02.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can, so you can, let me see.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:13.380" data-start="00:16:13.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.420" data-start="00:16:15.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">This is an Emacs list rebel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:21.380" data-start="00:16:21.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:23.140" data-start="00:16:23.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs and send things and stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:25.160" data-start="00:16:25.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So you're friends that we share stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:28.340" data-start="00:16:28.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But having a complete Emacless implementation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:37.400" data-start="00:16:37.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with LEM and work with both API will be a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:42.240" data-start="00:16:42.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">huge work. Very like, it's even if they share</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:43.680" data-start="00:16:43.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">very similar thing, in fact,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:46.480" data-start="00:16:46.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">API in some places is very similar.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:48.540" data-start="00:16:48.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Down the line infrastructure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:52.220" data-start="00:16:52.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so the code is, so it's completely different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:56.680" data-start="00:16:56.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It will be very hard. We do have a clone of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:58.940" data-start="00:16:58.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">maggot that works, more or less.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:01.440" data-start="00:17:01.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, it does work, but maggot's just better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:03.340" data-start="00:17:03.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But it's getting there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:05.020" data-start="00:17:05.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So like I said, we're trying to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:06.220" data-start="00:17:06.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">not to copy one-to-one,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:09.640" data-start="00:17:09.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but to adapting each tool to LEM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:13.260" data-start="00:17:13.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:19.700" data-start="00:17:19.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So yeah, that would be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:21.260" data-start="00:17:21.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so how a blend buffer design,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:24.780" data-start="00:17:24.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">similar to Emacs. So similar in what way,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:26.319" data-start="00:17:26.319" data-video="qanda-emacsen">actually with properties.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:29.180" data-start="00:17:29.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think that you've seen,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:31.220" data-start="00:17:31.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so you do have like a font lock,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:32.420" data-start="00:17:32.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">different kind of properties,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:37.820" data-start="00:17:37.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it's not exactly how Emac does it with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:41.740" data-start="00:17:41.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">overlays and stuff. You can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:43.080" data-start="00:17:43.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so if you're very interested,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:45.300" data-start="00:17:45.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't want to go too much deep into the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:51.500" data-start="00:17:51.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">let me go to, I don't want to go too much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:55.380" data-start="00:17:55.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">deep into the technicality of things now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:57.920" data-start="00:17:57.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.040" data-start="00:18:00.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:03.900" data-start="00:18:03.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you can go to buffer. You can check all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.520" data-start="00:18:08.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">codes here. Always we have,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:12.780" data-start="00:18:12.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we also have this, which is like StreamX.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:17.860" data-start="00:18:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Sorry to that, I don't.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:21.900" data-start="00:18:21.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But yeah, So you can see.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:24.440" data-start="00:18:24.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So yeah, if you go to the code base,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:26.780" data-start="00:18:26.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">maybe some of you can check this problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:28.500" data-start="00:18:28.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, not problem, but yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:30.340" data-start="00:18:30.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That's this Japanese comment.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:35.560" data-start="00:18:35.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can see here why it's very,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:38.000" data-start="00:18:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you have to translate and stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:39.560" data-start="00:18:39.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is sometimes a little bit annoying.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:44.540" data-start="00:18:44.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But yeah, some of them are in English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:47.020" data-start="00:18:47.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So this play is not the same.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:48.800" data-start="00:18:48.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So if you're interested,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:51.200" data-start="00:18:51.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you can go to the buffer and check it out for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:53.480" data-start="00:18:53.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:58.620" data-start="00:18:58.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">a different way. So the implementation is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:04.800" data-start="00:19:04.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">different that way. Oh,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:10.875" data-start="00:19:10.875" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:12.560" data-start="00:19:12.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:15.559" data-start="00:19:15.559" data-video="qanda-emacsen">experiences that I can show you?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:15.920" data-start="00:19:15.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Just like you show you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:18.120" data-start="00:19:18.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Any marks?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:32.860" data-start="00:19:32.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Okay, very interesting question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:34.000" data-start="00:19:34.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">What are the things...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:37.460" data-start="00:19:37.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So that's interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:42.720" data-start="00:19:42.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Let me see. So forgive me,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:49.660" data-start="00:19:49.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you answered this. I talked briefly in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:53.560" data-start="00:19:53.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">talk about this, but basically I like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:55.840" data-start="00:19:55.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Komaldisp, I have the mascot here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:58.040" data-start="00:19:58.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:04.740" data-start="00:20:04.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:08.640" data-start="00:20:08.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">think GmagLisp is a very good friend of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:10.240" data-start="00:20:10.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:11.840" data-start="00:20:11.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Analysis is a very good uncle.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:18.800" data-start="00:20:18.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Let me answer first the 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:24.140" data-start="00:20:24.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So I like to extend it in Common Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:25.640" data-start="00:20:25.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I like the Common Lisp libraries.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:30.100" data-start="00:20:30.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And I think them have a better design in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:31.220" data-start="00:20:31.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">terms of its 1 language,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:33.480" data-start="00:20:33.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which I think is a nice strength.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:36.580" data-start="00:20:36.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:38.680" data-start="00:20:38.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:40.600" data-start="00:20:40.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and to go inside and stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:43.360" data-start="00:20:43.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:44.820" data-start="00:20:44.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">C. If you're a fan of C,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:47.040" data-start="00:20:47.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you will be very pleasant with finding C</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:50.440" data-start="00:20:50.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:52.340" data-start="00:20:52.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">hack an Emacs and go inside the things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:54.140" data-start="00:20:54.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I will control C code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:56.200" data-start="00:20:56.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That's not that interactive as the Emaclist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:59.340" data-start="00:20:59.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:03.740" data-start="00:21:03.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I was always dreaming about that stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:05.320" data-start="00:21:05.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">having like everything in 1 language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:08.000" data-start="00:21:08.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The thing that LEM does to me is like it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:12.100" data-start="00:21:12.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">allows me to extend the editor to modify</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:14.160" data-start="00:21:14.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">also, to modify in Common Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:17.660" data-start="00:21:17.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Also, I like the language and technology.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:19.600" data-start="00:21:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's a bold thing, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:21.480" data-start="00:21:21.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's a world language that I love,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:23.740" data-start="00:21:23.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and Emacs that I love.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:25.380" data-start="00:21:25.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs, I'm a big fan of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:27.160" data-start="00:21:27.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">or a user of GNU Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:29.380" data-start="00:21:29.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:30.600" data-start="00:21:30.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but with a different design.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:32.360" data-start="00:21:32.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't want to, It's not a clone.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:37.800" data-start="00:21:37.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I want to get this very clear that LEM is not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:40.760" data-start="00:21:40.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:43.180" data-start="00:21:43.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:44.380" data-start="00:21:44.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and that cannot be denied.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:48.280" data-start="00:21:48.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:51.120" data-start="00:21:51.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:52.660" data-start="00:21:52.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">break, but you're welcome to continue</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:55.600" data-start="00:21:55.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">answering questions. But if anyone on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:57.500" data-start="00:21:57.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stream or folks want to go grab lunch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:59.760" data-start="00:21:59.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">feel free to do that. I'm probably going to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:01.880" data-start="00:22:01.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">do that as well. But yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:03.760" data-start="00:22:03.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we can either continue keeping this on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:06.180" data-start="00:22:06.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stream, or if people would like to come join</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:08.600" data-start="00:22:08.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:11.040" data-start="00:22:11.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like folks have already done that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:12.440" data-start="00:22:12.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah, you're welcome to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:14.620" data-start="00:22:14.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:16.500" data-start="00:22:16.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:25.160" data-start="00:22:25.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:30.080" data-start="00:22:30.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the question, I think LEM does tries to fix</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:31.880" data-start="00:22:31.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">some Emacs problems, can we fix problems</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:35.200" data-start="00:22:35.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">regarding the internal API,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:37.200" data-start="00:22:37.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which makes sense, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:39.060" data-start="00:22:39.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs have like 40 years,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:42.280" data-start="00:22:42.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is a lot. And yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:44.760" data-start="00:22:44.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is, that's what makes me happy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:47.480" data-start="00:22:47.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:50.200" data-start="00:22:50.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">some languages and then I use LEM for Common</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:51.100" data-start="00:22:51.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Lisp and other languages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:55.240" data-start="00:22:55.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can also use LEM for EmacLisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:59.760" data-start="00:22:59.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which makes LEM the second best editor for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:02.360" data-start="00:23:02.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:05.980" data-start="00:23:05.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:06.760" data-start="00:23:06.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">a lot of Japanese documentation?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:11.720" data-start="00:23:11.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So there's not that many Japanese</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:12.780" data-start="00:23:12.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">documentation, really.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:18.280" data-start="00:23:18.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So there's a few comments here and there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:20.800" data-start="00:23:20.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it's not full. We have a web page with a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:22.020" data-start="00:23:22.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">lot of documentation in English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:25.380" data-start="00:23:25.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So you can take a look at that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:29.080" data-start="00:23:29.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But we do have to improve the documentation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:30.260" data-start="00:23:30.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and translate it to English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:32.220" data-start="00:23:32.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Sasaki-san is up to it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:35.460" data-start="00:23:35.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but he just doesn't feel that comfortable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:36.600" data-start="00:23:36.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">translating it himself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:38.680" data-start="00:23:38.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:42.720" data-start="00:23:42.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:49.620" data-start="00:23:49.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:55.520" data-start="00:23:55.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because there's always chatter on the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:58.980" data-start="00:23:58.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:03.920" data-start="00:24:03.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">language. And to see that it's already to see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:05.320" data-start="00:24:05.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that I mean, you have an implementation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:08.360" data-start="00:24:08.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">sitting there and, and the thing I was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:10.600" data-start="00:24:10.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">wondering while I was listening in on the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:14.060" data-start="00:24:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">on the Q and A was do you have Dured?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:15.400" data-start="00:24:15.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Do you have Maggot? And some,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:17.100" data-start="00:24:17.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">somebody else wrote that question into,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:20.460" data-start="00:24:20.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:22.800" data-start="00:24:22.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you have Dured or something like it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:24.960" data-start="00:24:24.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">implemented. Because I think that's like the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:27.040" data-start="00:24:27.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for me, that's the most important thing in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:30.800" data-start="00:24:30.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs because that gets me around in my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:35.200" data-start="00:24:35.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:35.740" data-start="00:24:35.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">For me too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:37.100" data-start="00:24:37.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:37.740" data-start="00:24:37.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:39.680" data-start="00:24:39.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so I may try it out sometime,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:42.040" data-start="00:24:42.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:45.060" data-start="00:24:45.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because there's always a backlog of other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:46.560" data-start="00:24:46.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">things to try out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:49.800" data-start="00:24:49.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:54.020" data-start="00:24:54.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And do you use, I think you have bookmarks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:55.380" data-start="00:24:55.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and registers, I imagine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:55.800" data-start="00:24:55.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:59.700" data-start="00:24:59.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:01.220" data-start="00:25:01.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because I don't use it that much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:02.560" data-start="00:25:02.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But I think you have something like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:05.420" data-start="00:25:05.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, I don't. There's a few features that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:07.360" data-start="00:25:07.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't know about them because I don't use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:08.680" data-start="00:25:08.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it much. Some features,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:11.580" data-start="00:25:11.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean. But yeah, I think you have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:13.100" data-start="00:25:13.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Let me check. We can check,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:16.620" data-start="00:25:16.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">probably. Things in extensions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:23.140" data-start="00:25:23.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">just directory. VNXT. Directory mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:28.950" data-start="00:25:28.950" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:31.780" data-start="00:25:31.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I won't say clone. Very inspired.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:36.580" data-start="00:25:36.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:38.440" data-start="00:25:38.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like org mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:41.040" data-start="00:25:41.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:50.440" data-start="00:25:50.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:58.380" data-start="00:25:58.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:00.060" data-start="00:26:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">is now in a pull request,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:03.800" data-start="00:26:03.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think. But yeah, no.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:06.800" data-start="00:26:06.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The thing is I don't use R mode that much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:11.980" data-start="00:26:11.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:15.020" data-start="00:26:15.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">some major mode and stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:18.160" data-start="00:26:18.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So we don't have that implemented yet.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:20.580" data-start="00:26:20.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The thing is, my plans for,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:22.360" data-start="00:26:22.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I do have plans for our mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:24.020" data-start="00:26:24.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">They're a little bit evil,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:26.200" data-start="00:26:26.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but there's plans for it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:27.800" data-start="00:26:27.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So I'm planning to use,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:30.000" data-start="00:26:30.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so rewriting our mode is a big task that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:34.200" data-start="00:26:34.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:39.020" data-start="00:26:39.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:45.060" data-start="00:26:45.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:46.860" data-start="00:26:46.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for the Red Bull and stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:51.000" data-start="00:26:51.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:54.720" data-start="00:26:54.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">provide me the functionality for Org Mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:59.380" data-start="00:26:59.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:01.640" data-start="00:27:01.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I like to note more than Org Roam just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:06.340" data-start="00:27:06.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because I feel Org Mode is great and all,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:08.920" data-start="00:27:08.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but if all my notes are in it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:10.260" data-start="00:27:10.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I kind of feel trapped by it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:14.460" data-start="00:27:14.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I did the talk journaling in KOutline,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:17.800" data-start="00:27:17.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and I like that package better for some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:21.040" data-start="00:27:21.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">things and it's like if I want to put like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:24.280" data-start="00:27:24.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the tags on PDF file names and so it's like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:28.940" data-start="00:27:28.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:31.560" data-start="00:27:31.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that part of the motivation of wanting to use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:34.620" data-start="00:27:34.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:38.445" data-start="00:27:38.445" data-video="qanda-emacsen">No, I will say I don't no.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:40.620" data-start="00:27:40.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:47.100" data-start="00:27:47.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:48.600" data-start="00:27:48.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that much. That's just the reality.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:52.120" data-start="00:27:52.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Org Mode for me is a very good markup</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:54.660" data-start="00:27:54.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">language, but not that much really.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:56.920" data-start="00:27:56.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:58.740" data-start="00:27:58.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's used by a lot of people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:00.060" data-start="00:28:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And there's very interesting packages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:03.700" data-start="00:28:03.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:05.800" data-start="00:28:05.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">plain text versus latex then?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:08.480" data-start="00:28:08.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:10.380" data-start="00:28:10.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">functionality. I think if you take that away,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:15.600" data-start="00:28:15.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you plain or mode versus Markdown,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:17.720" data-start="00:28:17.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't think there's that much difference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:19.960" data-start="00:28:19.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">if you take the Emacs functionality away.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:24.560" data-start="00:28:24.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:27.260" data-start="00:28:27.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:29.640" data-start="00:28:29.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Like, for instance, you have the double</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:31.720" data-start="00:28:31.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">square brackets, which is simpler for me to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:32.500" data-start="00:28:32.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">look at, but.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:35.820" data-start="00:28:35.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:38.400" data-start="00:28:38.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:39.800" data-start="00:28:39.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mode, which will be quite trivial.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:42.660" data-start="00:28:42.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:46.040" data-start="00:28:46.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you know, R mode in LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:52.460" data-start="00:28:52.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because no 1 wrote it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:55.320" data-start="00:28:55.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, that's the way with this project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:00.060" data-start="00:29:00.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">right? If you need people to be motivated to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:04.120" data-start="00:29:04.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">do that. And with LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:06.540" data-start="00:29:06.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">someone asked about the Japanese.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:11.320" data-start="00:29:11.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think they're interested about that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:15.040" data-start="00:29:15.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">LEM does have a thing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:16.030" data-start="00:29:16.030" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:16.800" data-start="00:29:16.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:18.000" data-start="00:29:18.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but that's what I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:19.370" data-start="00:29:19.370" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:22.420" data-start="00:29:22.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:24.240" data-start="00:29:24.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">we're using another big fan of...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:27.840" data-start="00:29:27.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, I know that the main people that may</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:30.280" data-start="00:29:30.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:33.080" data-start="00:29:33.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">A lot of them. It's very similar.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:37.540" data-start="00:29:37.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:43.260" data-start="00:29:43.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">uses Discord for chat and stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:46.980" data-start="00:29:46.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, we do have matrix,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:48.540" data-start="00:29:48.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and I should connect to it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:54.960" data-start="00:29:54.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">by the way. But we mainly use Discord,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:58.080" data-start="00:29:58.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which I don't think is a good thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:01.900" data-start="00:30:01.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, to have the main communication</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:05.020" data-start="00:30:05.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">channels, Discord. Because,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:09.020" data-start="00:30:09.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">well, it's Discord. It's a closed source</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:13.180" data-start="00:30:13.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">application that is easy for some people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:14.340" data-start="00:30:14.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but for some people it's a tailbreak.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.040" data-start="00:30:17.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.580" data-start="00:30:17.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:20.080" data-start="00:30:20.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that very like free software.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:22.800" data-start="00:30:22.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:26.000" data-start="00:30:26.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">popular, but as soon as you break out of that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:28.380" data-start="00:30:28.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:30.400" data-start="00:30:30.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">harder. For instance, they don't have...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:33.820" data-start="00:30:33.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">All the third-party clients are unofficial</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:37.340" data-start="00:30:37.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and according to their terms of service they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:40.380" data-start="00:30:40.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">can just can you. Which is not a nice</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:44.020" data-start="00:30:44.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">position to be in if you're trying to use it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:47.200" data-start="00:30:47.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and you wanted to be a moderator using some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:50.600" data-start="00:30:50.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">side tools that weren't Discord.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:55.320" data-start="00:30:55.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:56.400" data-start="00:30:56.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't like Discord.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:03.860" data-start="00:31:03.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:06.200" data-start="00:31:06.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and the LEM. Do you have it published</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:06.720" data-start="00:31:06.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">somewhere?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:13.520" data-start="00:31:13.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:15.820" data-start="00:31:15.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'll copy that in the chat.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:19.000" data-start="00:31:19.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:21.560" data-start="00:31:21.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you do like the communication with other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:24.020" data-start="00:31:24.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">programs with Emacs because that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:24.320" data-start="00:31:24.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:30.140" data-start="00:31:30.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:32.460" data-start="00:31:32.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm not writing it from scratch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:34.340" data-start="00:31:34.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">not that much as a developer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:37.540" data-start="00:31:37.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:39.140" data-start="00:31:39.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Maybe that's the thing I can learn.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:40.840" data-start="00:31:40.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:42.360" data-start="00:31:42.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah. Yeah. If you want to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:43.860" data-start="00:31:43.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so I didn't see this 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:46.420" data-start="00:31:46.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this package for the RSP,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:48.620" data-start="00:31:48.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which make is monthly automatically.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:53.200" data-start="00:31:53.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:59.180" data-start="00:31:59.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:59.760" data-start="00:31:59.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">work on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:03.340" data-start="00:32:03.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:08.260" data-start="00:32:08.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:11.320" data-start="00:32:11.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">from the buffer that you do in LEM and then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:16.880" data-start="00:32:16.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:19.820" data-start="00:32:19.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and then the changes go back to LEM to change</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:22.660" data-start="00:32:22.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the buffer of LEM. That's my idea.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:24.960" data-start="00:32:24.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:28.320" data-start="00:32:28.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Would be interesting to see what comes from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:28.540" data-start="00:32:28.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:32.280" data-start="00:32:32.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:35.200" data-start="00:32:35.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's not, you have to duplicate the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:36.020" data-start="00:32:36.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">information and stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:38.940" data-start="00:32:38.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is, oh, by the way,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:40.320" data-start="00:32:40.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm going to pass the Lemington,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:43.380" data-start="00:32:43.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is the name of the RSP clone.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:45.980" data-start="00:32:45.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Sorry, the integration with Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:48.900" data-start="00:32:48.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is LEM with a mustache.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:54.400" data-start="00:32:54.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:56.360" data-start="00:32:56.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:00.020" data-start="00:33:00.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because it was such a performance hog for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:02.140" data-start="00:33:02.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">retrieving all the emails.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:06.940" data-start="00:33:06.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:08.559" data-start="00:33:08.559" data-video="qanda-emacsen">right? I can, in fact,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:11.200" data-start="00:33:11.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:13.340" data-start="00:33:13.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, not puppeting. I'm already using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:15.700" data-start="00:33:15.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Maggots. So I have this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:17.400" data-start="00:33:17.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Actually, let me copy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:25.600" data-start="00:33:25.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I have this, which is usually a little bit,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:28.080" data-start="00:33:28.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:31.500" data-start="00:33:31.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">launching Leviton. And then this is the kill</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:32.300" data-start="00:33:32.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and this is the status,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:33.440" data-start="00:33:33.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is basically saying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:36.680" data-start="00:33:36.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">run this and this is this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:42.040" data-start="00:33:42.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is run maggot in this file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:43.940" data-start="00:33:43.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">If you put it side by side,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:48.680" data-start="00:33:48.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you will check instantly that this is the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:50.900" data-start="00:33:50.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">buffer directory, LEM home,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:54.020" data-start="00:33:54.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and then the current file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:58.860" data-start="00:33:58.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Because I'm launching it with the file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:03.940" data-start="00:34:03.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So buffer directory, which is the directory</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:09.239" data-start="00:34:09.239" data-video="qanda-emacsen">of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:13.600" data-start="00:34:13.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">a tool outside of LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:14.960" data-start="00:34:14.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because I really like maggot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:16.920" data-start="00:34:16.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And this is very easy to check.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:22.719" data-start="00:34:22.719" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Launch Emacs daemon. Okay.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:28.580" data-start="00:34:28.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And then I go to local projects.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:31.719" data-start="00:34:31.719" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:37.199" data-start="00:34:37.199" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:39.639" data-start="00:34:39.639" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in daemon mode so you don't ever have to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:40.840" data-start="00:34:40.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">restart it or the images,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:43.100" data-start="00:34:43.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I guess, that LEM has.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:46.800" data-start="00:34:46.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:53.719" data-start="00:34:53.719" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:56.280" data-start="00:34:56.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mode, so you have control separately,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:58.860" data-start="00:34:58.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but keep in mind that LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:01.260" data-start="00:35:01.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's a common list program.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:03.340" data-start="00:35:03.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So if you use slime or Sly,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:10.080" data-start="00:35:10.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you can easily connect to them to hack on it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:12.380" data-start="00:35:12.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:14.060" data-start="00:35:14.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like using it from another computer?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:16.400" data-start="00:35:16.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:17.600" data-start="00:35:17.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think the same computer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:21.460" data-start="00:35:21.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">or maybe Sage, but yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:21.820" data-start="00:35:21.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's very...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:24.520" data-start="00:35:24.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:26.640" data-start="00:35:26.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">if you were using the window...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:28.260" data-start="00:35:28.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I can't remember the name of the window</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:30.100" data-start="00:35:30.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">manager. Or if you were using...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:36.460" data-start="00:35:36.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:40.680" data-start="00:35:40.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">calling it from like stump WM or how often do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:41.500" data-start="00:35:41.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you use that REPL?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:43.740" data-start="00:35:43.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:44.700" data-start="00:35:44.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I connect to a museum,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:49.400" data-start="00:35:49.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:52.240" data-start="00:35:52.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to it, but I was using Emacs before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:55.800" data-start="00:35:55.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:58.260" data-start="00:35:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">LEM. So the thing that is in Common List</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:00.900" data-start="00:36:00.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:04.000" data-start="00:36:04.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">connectivity between different...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:06.960" data-start="00:36:06.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:11.120" data-start="00:36:11.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I've used that before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:13.440" data-start="00:36:13.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I've also used, like right now I'm using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:14.720" data-start="00:36:14.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Sway. I've used Xmonad,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:16.260" data-start="00:36:16.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">DWM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:23.040" data-start="00:36:23.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:25.680" data-start="00:36:25.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I can't remember the name.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:27.900" data-start="00:36:27.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But it was like a few years ago.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:30.800" data-start="00:36:30.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I've been doing some DWM for like the last</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:36.260" data-start="00:36:36.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:37.740" data-start="00:36:37.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:41.940" data-start="00:36:41.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's that I was... I don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:43.440" data-start="00:36:43.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:44.040" data-start="00:36:44.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:48.280" data-start="00:36:48.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:53.300" data-start="00:36:53.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">have some unique ideas that weren't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:56.280" data-start="00:36:56.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:02.540" data-start="00:37:02.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:05.140" data-start="00:37:05.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But for example, I'll change...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:06.720" data-start="00:37:06.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So I don't have in this computer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:08.240" data-start="00:37:08.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but in my other computer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:13.840" data-start="00:37:13.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I change the mod line or bar,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:18.220" data-start="00:37:18.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:21.500" data-start="00:37:21.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">doesn't only update it when you click,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:25.280" data-start="00:37:25.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">or you do some events or happen 1 minute.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:27.560" data-start="00:37:27.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So you can see here, this is not changing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:28.320" data-start="00:37:28.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">until I click.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:33.500" data-start="00:37:33.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:34.360" data-start="00:37:34.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:36.160" data-start="00:37:36.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I have a quick question for Matthew.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:43.520" data-start="00:37:43.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So is your talk going to be posted or did you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:47.420" data-start="00:37:47.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:50.140" data-start="00:37:50.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">My talk was the K outline for journaling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:53.080" data-start="00:37:53.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:54.020" data-start="00:37:54.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">too late for it Sorry,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:58.420" data-start="00:37:58.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:03.240" data-start="00:38:03.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">answering questions So is your talk going to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:06.560" data-start="00:38:06.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">be on the page for your talk?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:07.740" data-start="00:38:07.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:08.560" data-start="00:38:08.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:11.940" data-start="00:38:11.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:17.480" data-start="00:38:17.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:18.840" data-start="00:38:18.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to them, because when I emailed it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:22.080" data-start="00:38:22.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:22.360" data-start="00:38:22.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:23.600" data-start="00:38:23.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Download and watch it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:29.440" data-start="00:38:29.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm probably going to post it on YouTube</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:33.600" data-start="00:38:33.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">later. I, I had my face record with it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:36.020" data-start="00:38:36.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I never got it edited together in time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:40.320" data-start="00:38:40.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:43.140" data-start="00:38:43.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">onto the onto the ether pad or something or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:46.000" data-start="00:38:46.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">onto the wiki then then I can find it and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:49.920" data-start="00:38:49.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">check it out. All right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:53.040" data-start="00:38:53.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:56.300" data-start="00:38:56.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:57.260" data-start="00:38:57.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:00.920" data-start="00:39:00.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:02.860" data-start="00:39:02.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">about all that I mean I'm already doing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:04.280" data-start="00:39:04.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">blasphemy so I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:24.600" data-start="00:39:24.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:26.640" data-start="00:39:26.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">then as my point of view,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:28.860" data-start="00:39:28.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:30.240" data-start="00:39:30.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">just a moment, I think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:34.960" data-start="00:39:34.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">is very focused on an IDE more than a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:40.580" data-start="00:39:40.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">node-taking editor. More like an integrated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:41.540" data-start="00:39:41.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">development environment.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:45.040" data-start="00:39:45.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So node is like a second thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:51.500" data-start="00:39:51.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So not exactly the main focus.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:54.440" data-start="00:39:54.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And I know that Emacs does have a very strong</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:58.440" data-start="00:39:58.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">community of Ormode users that use Emacs for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:00.140" data-start="00:40:00.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Ormode, which is the killer feature,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:01.080" data-start="00:40:01.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">1 of I'll do a feature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:04.456" data-start="00:40:04.456" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'll do a feature of Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:09.160" data-start="00:40:09.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So I'm not the maintainer of porthole.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:20.220" data-start="00:40:20.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:22.700" data-start="00:40:22.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">maintain the remote. I'm sorry,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:27.400" data-start="00:40:27.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:31.120" data-start="00:40:31.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the Lamington. I cannot change anything.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:39.520" data-start="00:40:39.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:40.760" data-start="00:40:40.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with your window manager?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:43.780" data-start="00:40:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I do have elsewhere.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:49.400" data-start="00:40:49.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:53.040" data-start="00:40:53.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">editor, which I think is really fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:56.820" data-start="00:40:56.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The way I can write, so I wrote a few</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:58.500" data-start="00:40:58.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">packages for Soundallium.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:06.740" data-start="00:41:06.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So 1 of them is Proton,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:10.360" data-start="00:41:10.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which basically launches like a...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:18.480" data-start="00:41:18.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:22.000" data-start="00:41:22.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:24.140" data-start="00:41:24.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:26.480" data-start="00:41:26.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you have like a list of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:32.280" data-start="00:41:32.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">let me check. No, we're just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:38.780" data-start="00:41:38.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">sorry. This, So these all games are bought by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:41.280" data-start="00:41:41.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">me. They're not pirates in any way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:45.800" data-start="00:41:45.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I can use this to to launch it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:50.700" data-start="00:41:50.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:54.800" data-start="00:41:54.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:02.300" data-start="00:42:02.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I also contribute the Dmenu integration into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:05.820" data-start="00:42:05.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">StumwM. So I use Dmenu.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:07.480" data-start="00:42:07.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So like this, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:13.300" data-start="00:42:13.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:15.720" data-start="00:42:15.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You don't know how nice those things are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:16.880" data-start="00:42:16.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">until you start using those.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:21.280" data-start="00:42:21.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:24.060" data-start="00:42:24.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Also I was using RoFi,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:25.680" data-start="00:42:25.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:29.100" data-start="00:42:29.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:31.240" data-start="00:42:31.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">mentioning is that also,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:32.860" data-start="00:42:32.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">being able to use D-Menu,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:34.800" data-start="00:42:34.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but being able to just have keyboard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:38.680" data-start="00:42:38.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:45.420" data-start="00:42:45.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and No tabs no status bars like all of a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:47.160" data-start="00:42:47.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">sudden your mental model on how your computer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:51.420" data-start="00:42:51.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">operates goes through the roof and a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:57.900" data-start="00:42:57.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs users Know what that is like Especially</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:01.240" data-start="00:43:01.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">In conjunction with a window manager?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:06.740" data-start="00:43:06.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:11.320" data-start="00:43:11.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:16.840" data-start="00:43:16.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:18.460" data-start="00:43:18.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">window manager is scary.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:22.500" data-start="00:43:22.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And also games and some stuff wasn't working</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:25.040" data-start="00:43:25.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">correctly, which it makes sense in some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:27.340" data-start="00:43:27.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">regards, using Emacs for window manager.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:30.660" data-start="00:43:30.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Oh</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:34.480" data-start="00:43:34.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:39.240" data-start="00:43:39.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like it. It's not as bad in practice because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:43.020" data-start="00:43:43.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The paper cuts you don't like to hit them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:45.800" data-start="00:43:45.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">every day So you make sure So you make sure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:48.080" data-start="00:43:48.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:51.040" data-start="00:43:51.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:54.440" data-start="00:43:54.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">things. It forces you to make your Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:59.440" data-start="00:43:59.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">config a lot more robust to speed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:02.040" data-start="00:44:02.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:04.200" data-start="00:44:04.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah. The thing, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:05.600" data-start="00:44:05.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but still, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:08.680" data-start="00:44:08.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:09.060" data-start="00:44:09.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:12.360" data-start="00:44:12.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:16.500" data-start="00:44:16.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">great. I'm not a person,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:17.860" data-start="00:44:17.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like, I don't want to have...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:19.960" data-start="00:44:19.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Not with LEM or Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:22.660" data-start="00:44:22.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I like to have different programs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:25.840" data-start="00:44:25.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't want to like, I never was in like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:28.040" data-start="00:44:28.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs or you know, only Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:30.480" data-start="00:44:30.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:33.920" data-start="00:44:33.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but only Emacs? No, no,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:35.300" data-start="00:44:35.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I like my browser, I like my,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:37.500" data-start="00:44:37.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you know, my Windows Manager,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:41.280" data-start="00:44:41.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:45.520" data-start="00:44:45.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs is my OS. Some people are,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:48.600" data-start="00:44:48.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is good. Different kind of a...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:51.600" data-start="00:44:51.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I have to say that I come from Vim,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:57.340" data-start="00:44:57.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like a long time ago. But I come from Vim,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:58.660" data-start="00:44:58.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so I'm using Evil Mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:00.280" data-start="00:45:00.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And I maybe have this kind of a...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:05.700" data-start="00:45:05.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:10.080" data-start="00:45:10.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's... I like it because it's common Lisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:13.940" data-start="00:45:13.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it don't have some,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:18.120" data-start="00:45:18.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this, I removed this. So I'm using another</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:21.040" data-start="00:45:21.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">model line because the model line is not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:24.440" data-start="00:45:24.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">great. Everything else is a little bit weird</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:28.940" data-start="00:45:28.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because you have frames similar to Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:33.560" data-start="00:45:33.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You have a frame. You have this window,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:35.600" data-start="00:45:35.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and then there's no nothing here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:37.700" data-start="00:45:37.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:39.720" data-start="00:45:39.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That was definitely weird.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:41.680" data-start="00:45:41.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's also nice to be able to just...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:43.660" data-start="00:45:43.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Can't you put multiple windows?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:46.100" data-start="00:45:46.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Can't you duplicate windows?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:48.040" data-start="00:45:48.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Show the same window in 2 frames?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:48.560" data-start="00:45:48.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">NIGEL</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:51.020" data-start="00:45:51.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:54.400" data-start="00:45:54.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Never occurred to me that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:57.840" data-start="00:45:57.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't know. Never tried that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:01.480" data-start="00:46:01.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to be honest. Let me check.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:07.280" data-start="00:46:07.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">No idea. Item? I think so.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:10.080" data-start="00:46:10.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Because when you try to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:11.520" data-start="00:46:11.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">at least not in an easy way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:13.940" data-start="00:46:13.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">When you try to, so if I try to put a window</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:16.020" data-start="00:46:16.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">here, let me move it so it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:20.060" data-start="00:46:20.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and if I try to like, so it's,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:21.680" data-start="00:46:21.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah, no other window.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:24.100" data-start="00:46:24.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:25.080" data-start="00:46:25.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">discord or your browser?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:26.840" data-start="00:46:26.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Could you open that in both your frames?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:34.620" data-start="00:46:34.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:37.740" data-start="00:46:37.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:38.400" data-start="00:46:38.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:42.600" data-start="00:46:42.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:46.300" data-start="00:46:46.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:48.560" data-start="00:46:48.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">at least I don't know what configuration</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:50.820" data-start="00:46:50.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you'd have to do to get to be able to do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:51.140" data-start="00:46:51.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in XMONAD.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:54.060" data-start="00:46:54.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:57.700" data-start="00:46:57.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I never tried. Maybe you can?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:03.240" data-start="00:47:03.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">No idea. The interesting thing that I never</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:05.860" data-start="00:47:05.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">use is that floating windows.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:09.520" data-start="00:47:09.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Never use floating windows,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:13.480" data-start="00:47:13.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but normal windows. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:17.780" data-start="00:47:17.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">not. And SoundWM does have a weird support</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:24.720" data-start="00:47:24.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for it. Now it works. But I don't like it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:26.680" data-start="00:47:26.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">For me, it was a little bit rough,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:29.480" data-start="00:47:29.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the use of floating windows in SoundWM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:32.480" data-start="00:47:32.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think they're way better now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:36.580" data-start="00:47:36.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think, but yeah, I don't use it so...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:40.600" data-start="00:47:40.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But there is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:43.520" data-start="00:47:43.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:45.060" data-start="00:47:45.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like, Emacs doing everything,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:46.880" data-start="00:47:46.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it's like, you got like Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:50.320" data-start="00:47:50.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you got shell, and then you got the gooey</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:56.520" data-start="00:47:56.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Wild West. Yeah. Like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:58.940" data-start="00:47:58.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:01.280" data-start="00:48:01.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">oh, this is going to be configured in?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:04.160" data-start="00:48:04.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's either gonna be shell script,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:06.180" data-start="00:48:06.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Python or Emacs. Oh wait,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:07.000" data-start="00:48:07.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">no, it's gonna be Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:09.680" data-start="00:48:09.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Variable's gonna be written in SecQ,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:10.380" data-start="00:48:10.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">period.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:16.640" data-start="00:48:16.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:18.260" data-start="00:48:18.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I'd like to, for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:21.540" data-start="00:48:21.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I had to do a, so the automatic installer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:26.000" data-start="00:48:26.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:30.340" data-start="00:48:30.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:32.520" data-start="00:48:32.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:35.380" data-start="00:48:35.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:37.660" data-start="00:48:37.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which does have like a scripting feature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:40.920" data-start="00:48:40.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You can put a script and it will create your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:41.160" data-start="00:48:41.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">own script.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:45.860" data-start="00:48:45.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:50.760" data-start="00:48:50.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:51.720" data-start="00:48:51.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">replacement for a shell.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:58.700" data-start="00:48:58.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:00.680" data-start="00:49:00.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I know that he exists.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:04.600" data-start="00:49:04.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:09.140" data-start="00:49:09.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:10.380" data-start="00:49:10.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think he took it down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:12.280" data-start="00:49:12.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:14.480" data-start="00:49:14.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah, he took it down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:17.360" data-start="00:49:17.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:17.680" data-start="00:49:17.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Machine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:23.940" data-start="00:49:23.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:26.740" data-start="00:49:26.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think, somewhere. I remember reading that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:30.360" data-start="00:49:30.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So also, I would like to keep separated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:32.880" data-start="00:49:32.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">things in that way to have shell and then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:37.940" data-start="00:49:37.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:40.760" data-start="00:49:40.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't like that it has different,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:41.760" data-start="00:49:41.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:44.900" data-start="00:49:44.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:46.960" data-start="00:49:46.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I also don't like my terminal not to be able</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:52.340" data-start="00:49:52.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to click URLs and I like I like my terminal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:54.560" data-start="00:49:54.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to have history and you know to scroll</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:58.040" data-start="00:49:58.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">position copy paste You can do some of that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:00.020" data-start="00:50:00.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:01.960" data-start="00:50:01.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">killer ring I kind of view it as like an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:02.800" data-start="00:50:02.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">alternative to shell.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:06.940" data-start="00:50:06.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:08.720" data-start="00:50:08.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">terminal, I only use it for navigate,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:11.280" data-start="00:50:11.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">remove stuff, so basic stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:14.280" data-start="00:50:14.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">When I have to like, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:17.640" data-start="00:50:17.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">edit something, just open the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:22.120" data-start="00:50:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:24.480" data-start="00:50:24.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">find my files. I kind of wish I could do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:26.320" data-start="00:50:26.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:27.400" data-start="00:50:27.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:28.440" data-start="00:50:28.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That would be, I'm sure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:28.760" data-start="00:50:28.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">nicer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:38.140" data-start="00:50:38.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:39.800" data-start="00:50:39.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that, right? But you have to configure all of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:41.580" data-start="00:50:41.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">them. Beam users are very aware of those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:46.980" data-start="00:50:46.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen">tools. You know, having very good fuzzy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:49.240" data-start="00:50:49.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">finding of files and then all by the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:53.680" data-start="00:50:53.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:56.820" data-start="00:50:56.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the Forbidden Editor, he's good,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:01.900" data-start="00:51:01.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that does have a lot of small,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:09.480" data-start="00:51:09.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:12.240" data-start="00:51:12.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and call those images in the terminal,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:14.300" data-start="00:51:14.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">all sorts of crazy stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:16.120" data-start="00:51:16.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That I think are not overkill,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:20.380" data-start="00:51:20.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I mean, if you want to use it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:29.540" data-start="00:51:29.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:32.360" data-start="00:51:32.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So trickling back a little bit to LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:35.600" data-start="00:51:35.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think an interesting thought that I have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:37.280" data-start="00:51:37.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">about LEM and I can do Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:40.680" data-start="00:51:40.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Not now, because LEM is a very small,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:43.740" data-start="00:51:43.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like literally people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:46.000" data-start="00:51:46.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">at least developers and users,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:50.280" data-start="00:51:50.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I don't know, maybe 10 less.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:56.780" data-start="00:51:56.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But people may think, split the community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:58.740" data-start="00:51:58.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">right? That's the main thing that should come</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:59.960" data-start="00:51:59.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to my mind, split the community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:01.840" data-start="00:52:01.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">maybe you, because that's true.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:04.000" data-start="00:52:04.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:06.260" data-start="00:52:06.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">MacLisp because I'm developing them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:12.080" data-start="00:52:12.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That's not that I'm a force that you might</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:13.360" data-start="00:52:13.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">think exists or anything,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:17.220" data-start="00:52:17.220" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but you know, you're splitting a very small</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:21.600" data-start="00:52:21.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">community. Not that LEM wants to do that or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:24.160" data-start="00:52:24.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">anything, or will be able to in any way,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:25.280" data-start="00:52:25.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but you know what I mean.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:32.360" data-start="00:52:32.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I thought about that, And I think it's an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:40.600" data-start="00:52:40.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">interesting concern. But that concern also</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:42.180" data-start="00:52:42.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">stops innovation in some way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:46.960" data-start="00:52:46.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:50.200" data-start="00:52:50.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">of how many EMAX talks are related to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:54.760" data-start="00:52:54.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">knowledge management and not all and like for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:57.840" data-start="00:52:57.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">instance denote and Orgrim don't really work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:01.740" data-start="00:53:01.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">together all that well they split the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:03.740" data-start="00:53:03.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">community so to say I don't think they make</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:04.720" data-start="00:53:04.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it weaker at all, though.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:08.560" data-start="00:53:08.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think you were saying competition is good,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:10.000" data-start="00:53:10.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but yeah, competition is good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:12.100" data-start="00:53:12.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:13.280" data-start="00:53:13.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I want to put it in the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:15.400" data-start="00:53:15.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:18.252" data-start="00:53:18.252" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:18.308" data-start="00:53:18.308" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this regard. Like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:18.327" data-start="00:53:18.327" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:19.280" data-start="00:53:19.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">someone wants to like say something that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:22.920" data-start="00:53:22.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">maybe, you know, because some people still</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:30.800" data-start="00:53:30.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:34.860" data-start="00:53:34.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the past, you know, that the split of the and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:38.100" data-start="00:53:38.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That was good in some way but also bad in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:39.800" data-start="00:53:39.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">others like the compatibility was a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:42.560" data-start="00:53:42.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:46.160" data-start="00:53:46.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:50.140" data-start="00:53:50.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that clear and some people like it wasn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:53.200" data-start="00:53:53.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">there. And I can understand that kind of a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:53.360" data-start="00:53:53.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">feeling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:58.820" data-start="00:53:58.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:02.640" data-start="00:54:02.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">going Like you're on a hill and you want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:05.820" data-start="00:54:05.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:06.440" data-start="00:54:06.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:10.920" data-start="00:54:10.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:12.240" data-start="00:54:12.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">if you know you're going down,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:13.840" data-start="00:54:13.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it doesn't mean that it was a mistake.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:19.740" data-start="00:54:19.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:22.120" data-start="00:54:22.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">interesting thing that I want to envision in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:25.520" data-start="00:54:25.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the future, if I have time or someone wants</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:28.400" data-start="00:54:28.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to help me with, is I want them to have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:30.240" data-start="00:54:30.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">different language for extension,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:32.560" data-start="00:54:32.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">different Lisp for extension,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:36.340" data-start="00:54:36.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen">not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:39.680" data-start="00:54:39.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And maybe not EmacLisp probably,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:46.500" data-start="00:54:46.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:47.860" data-start="00:54:47.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:50.060" data-start="00:54:50.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">tried to add Guile support to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:52.040" data-start="00:54:52.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but Guile is not scheme.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:53.560" data-start="00:54:53.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, it's kind of scheme,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:54.440" data-start="00:54:54.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but it's not all schemes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:58.580" data-start="00:54:58.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is, you know, and it was just to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:02.540" data-start="00:55:02.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">replace EmacLisp with Gile.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:06.940" data-start="00:55:06.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You have 2 both. It was similar in that way,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:12.100" data-start="00:55:12.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:12.900" data-start="00:55:12.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">of interesting things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:16.120" data-start="00:55:16.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:20.640" data-start="00:55:20.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Which is called Cloture.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:29.720" data-start="00:55:29.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:35.440" data-start="00:55:35.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">getting there, a standard scheme in Common</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:39.440" data-start="00:55:39.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Lisp. So to add support to LEM,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:44.440" data-start="00:55:44.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">will be as easy as import package,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:46.360" data-start="00:55:46.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and you have, And if that language,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:49.640" data-start="00:55:49.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which usually does, supports very well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:51.740" data-start="00:55:51.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen">interaction between the host language and the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:52.920" data-start="00:55:52.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">language that tries to provide,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:57.040" data-start="00:55:57.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you will mostly automatically have new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:58.060" data-start="00:55:58.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">language for the editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:05.640" data-start="00:56:05.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:09.280" data-start="00:56:09.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">would be like using Next to scrape websites,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:12.500" data-start="00:56:12.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen">download CSV bank statements,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:15.940" data-start="00:56:15.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">integrating with like password managers and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:27.880" data-start="00:56:27.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">or using... yeah you could still do with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:30.120" data-start="00:56:30.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:31.460" data-start="00:56:31.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:32.400" data-start="00:56:32.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:34.760" data-start="00:56:34.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">other options would be Selenium,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:41.200" data-start="00:56:41.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:47.940" data-start="00:56:47.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:50.060" data-start="00:56:50.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">when he, I don't know if you watched it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:52.920" data-start="00:56:52.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but when you use a shell and a command takes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:56.060" data-start="00:56:56.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">takes a while It just automatically takes you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:58.440" data-start="00:56:58.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">back into your shell and says I'll just let</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:00.520" data-start="00:57:00.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">this run in the background or being able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:02.760" data-start="00:57:02.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">more easily run commands in parallel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:13.620" data-start="00:57:13.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:18.740" data-start="00:57:18.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:21.540" data-start="00:57:21.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:23.380" data-start="00:57:23.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">he. Because 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:25.340" data-start="00:57:25.340" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:30.040" data-start="00:57:30.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">was using the repl in place of the shell is 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:31.240" data-start="00:57:31.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">of the things in there was if,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:33.720" data-start="00:57:33.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">let's say you were compiling a program,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:36.820" data-start="00:57:36.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that takes a while. If it took longer than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:40.240" data-start="00:57:40.240" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like 3 seconds or something along those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:42.560" data-start="00:57:42.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">lines, it would kick you back into the shell</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:44.260" data-start="00:57:44.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and say, oh, we're waiting for this program</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:48.160" data-start="00:57:48.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:48.840" data-start="00:57:48.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:51.200" data-start="00:57:51.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">and then it had back reference support.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:55.260" data-start="00:57:55.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So you could say, Oh, app search for this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:58.480" data-start="00:57:58.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">program. And then with the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:00.780" data-start="00:58:00.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with the shell, I, when I want to search,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:04.460" data-start="00:58:04.460" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'll then grep through that list to narrow it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:06.900" data-start="00:58:06.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">down even further, but I do a whole new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:08.400" data-start="00:58:08.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">search. It just says, oh,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:10.600" data-start="00:58:10.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">just grep through what I already searched.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:14.180" data-start="00:58:14.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Just grep through the results of the command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:15.940" data-start="00:58:15.940" data-video="qanda-emacsen">that's 3 commands ago.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:17.980" data-start="00:58:17.980" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:23.880" data-start="00:58:23.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:25.840" data-start="00:58:25.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in my compilation output,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:29.700" data-start="00:58:29.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:30.360" data-start="00:58:30.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">for the errors.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:33.640" data-start="00:58:33.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:36.420" data-start="00:58:36.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I was looking for it. You know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:44.540" data-start="00:58:44.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the... Yeah, I want to check the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:48.000" data-start="00:58:48.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:55.080" data-start="00:58:55.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:58.260" data-start="00:58:58.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen">No, this is not what I meant.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:34.174" data-start="00:59:34.174" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:47.664" data-start="00:59:47.664" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I cannot find the... I was trying to find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:54.180" data-start="00:59:54.180" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:59.640" data-start="00:59:59.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">like a unit shell for interface with for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:02.080" data-start="01:00:02.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">common Lisp? Is that the thing?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:09.000" data-start="01:00:09.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:12.260" data-start="01:00:12.260" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:16.560" data-start="01:00:16.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">no longer website. Website.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:21.500" data-start="01:00:21.500" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:23.400" data-start="01:00:23.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Maybe this 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:35.820" data-start="01:00:35.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I cannot find it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:37.800" data-start="01:00:37.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:51.140" data-start="01:00:51.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:02.020" data-start="01:01:02.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:02.380" data-start="01:01:02.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:07.600" data-start="01:01:07.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:13.520" data-start="01:01:13.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:18.640" data-start="01:01:18.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Clish, so the, let's check for it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:23.560" data-start="01:01:23.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The other 1 is shell and camel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:24.120" data-start="01:01:24.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">This 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:37.505" data-start="01:01:37.505" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:40.900" data-start="01:01:40.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:44.660" data-start="01:01:44.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Oh, interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:51.400" data-start="01:01:51.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:52.760" data-start="01:01:52.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you use those disk images,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:00.140" data-start="01:02:00.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">LISP images, to have some of your common LISP</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:05.920" data-start="01:02:05.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">utilities or programming libraries that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:07.660" data-start="01:02:07.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">utilize in tandem with your REPL.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:13.700" data-start="01:02:13.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So you can easily pull up a more featureful</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:18.160" data-start="01:02:18.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">or a REPL that has more tools in it than by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:18.400" data-start="01:02:18.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">default.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:21.740" data-start="01:02:21.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:24.380" data-start="01:02:24.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">yeah, I mean, that will be,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:26.800" data-start="01:02:26.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it will be fairly, no,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:28.700" data-start="01:02:28.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen">no, easy. Well, easy, but not,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:33.080" data-start="01:02:33.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But this can be integrated into LEM probably.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:36.060" data-start="01:02:36.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Very, you know, not that easy because you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:38.520" data-start="01:02:38.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">have to change the few things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:43.780" data-start="01:02:43.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">But this can be, you know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:47.100" data-start="01:02:47.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:49.360" data-start="01:02:49.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:51.080" data-start="01:02:51.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">1 of the main ideas was,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:56.160" data-start="01:02:56.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">let's just, rather than trying to make the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:57.600" data-start="01:02:57.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">shell closer to a REPL,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:00.780" data-start="01:03:00.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">let's make a REPL closer to a shell,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:03.380" data-start="01:03:03.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">make it to where we can easily run Linux</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:07.280" data-start="01:03:07.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">programs in it, and then use the rest of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:10.120" data-start="01:03:10.120" data-video="qanda-emacsen">REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:12.080" data-start="01:03:12.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">are easy to use, like paraedit,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:20.920" data-start="01:03:20.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And then all of a sudden you have a nicer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:24.320" data-start="01:03:24.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">shell. Not really shell,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:24.640" data-start="01:03:24.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:30.020" data-start="01:03:30.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:33.520" data-start="01:03:33.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:35.200" data-start="01:03:35.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's Leo from the general track.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:39.380" data-start="01:03:39.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">We are about to go back live on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:41.880" data-start="01:03:41.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">development track, so you can continue the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:43.080" data-start="01:03:43.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">discussion. You know, we are recording</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:45.200" data-start="01:03:45.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">everything and you seem to be having a great</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:47.520" data-start="01:03:47.520" data-video="qanda-emacsen">amount of fun to issue the need for lunch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:49.080" data-start="01:03:49.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">at least for the people in the US.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:51.160" data-start="01:03:51.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I just want to let you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:53.680" data-start="01:03:53.680" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:54.840" data-start="01:03:54.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the rest of the talk for the afternoon,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:56.840" data-start="01:03:56.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but feel free to stay in a room and keep</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:57.760" data-start="01:03:57.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">discussing. All right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:01.160" data-start="01:04:01.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:03.640" data-start="01:04:03.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:07.920" data-start="01:04:07.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so if you have your watch synchronized at 7</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:09.080" data-start="01:04:09.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">sharps, so in 2 minutes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:10.040" data-start="01:04:10.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen">it'll cut off.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:19.600" data-start="01:04:19.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:23.860" data-start="01:04:23.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:29.380" data-start="01:04:29.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:32.380" data-start="01:04:32.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:33.480" data-start="01:04:33.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:38.320" data-start="01:04:38.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">The 1 that's in that webpage,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:39.380" data-start="01:04:39.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the FOSDEM 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:40.840" data-start="01:04:40.840" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:44.480" data-start="01:04:44.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:50.053" data-start="01:04:50.053" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:50.166" data-start="01:04:50.166" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So we him</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:51.760" data-start="01:04:51.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:55.760" data-start="01:04:55.760" data-video="qanda-emacsen">is here in well here in Europe here in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:01.320" data-start="01:05:01.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:02.320" data-start="01:05:02.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">plane from where I am.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:05.320" data-start="01:05:05.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:06.900" data-start="01:05:06.900" data-video="qanda-emacsen">with, you have some of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:09.060" data-start="01:05:09.060" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:11.820" data-start="01:05:11.820" data-video="qanda-emacsen">they're like, oh, I want to visit all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:13.780" data-start="01:05:13.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen">corners of the US in a couple of days.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:17.920" data-start="01:05:17.920" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:19.740" data-start="01:05:19.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:21.160" data-start="01:05:21.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:23.140" data-start="01:05:23.140" data-video="qanda-emacsen">You don't...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:27.100" data-start="01:05:27.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:30.660" data-start="01:05:30.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:32.280" data-start="01:05:32.280" data-video="qanda-emacsen">from coast to coast, something like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:38.000" data-start="01:05:38.000" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:39.960" data-start="01:05:39.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">on the freeway, on the best roads that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:41.160" data-start="01:05:41.160" data-video="qanda-emacsen">possibly can, not taking...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:45.700" data-start="01:05:45.700" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:53.400" data-start="01:05:53.400" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So the thing that I try to do also with LEM</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:57.880" data-start="01:05:57.880" data-video="qanda-emacsen">is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:01.620" data-start="01:06:01.620" data-video="qanda-emacsen">so for Emax to LEM, use it more.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:07.080" data-start="01:06:07.080" data-video="qanda-emacsen">And I hope to, we still have a long way to go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:08.440" data-start="01:06:08.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in terms of usability,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:10.600" data-start="01:06:10.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">in terms of other things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:12.640" data-start="01:06:12.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because we need more power.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:18.420" data-start="01:06:18.420" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So This is also my attempt to do some</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:20.320" data-start="01:06:20.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">publicity to the Blend project itself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:23.100" data-start="01:06:23.100" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to need to add more users,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:26.200" data-start="01:06:26.200" data-video="qanda-emacsen">to be willing to try and to fail trying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:29.640" data-start="01:06:29.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen">because we still have some rough edges.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:38.320" data-start="01:06:38.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">Yeah, just trying to do that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:41.720" data-start="01:06:41.720" data-video="qanda-emacsen">which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:43.580" data-start="01:06:43.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen">community, which I'm part of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:44.660" data-start="01:06:44.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I don't want to like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:47.020" data-start="01:06:47.020" data-video="qanda-emacsen">disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:48.960" data-start="01:06:48.960" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I think both are awesome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:51.300" data-start="01:06:51.300" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I want to anyone to get a real impression.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:57.040" data-start="01:06:57.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:57.740" data-start="01:06:57.740" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:01.560" data-start="01:07:01.560" data-video="qanda-emacsen">you have a very powerful name.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:07.580" data-start="01:07:07.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:09.660" data-start="01:07:09.660" data-video="qanda-emacsen">about. I don't personally,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:15.380" data-start="01:07:15.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:17.360" data-start="01:07:17.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">That's something that I don't really use too</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:20.800" data-start="01:07:20.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">much on my Emacs config.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:22.600" data-start="01:07:22.600" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So I'm going to let you go.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:24.440" data-start="01:07:24.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:26.320" data-start="01:07:26.320" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm going to maybe watch the garbage</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:27.800" data-start="01:07:27.800" data-video="qanda-emacsen">collector talk, which is interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:32.540" data-start="01:07:32.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So thank you all very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:35.860" data-start="01:07:35.860" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:40.811" data-start="01:07:40.811" data-video="qanda-emacsen">all that. I think I hope I answered correctly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:47.040" data-start="01:07:47.040" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:50.580" data-start="01:07:50.580" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:52.540" data-start="01:07:52.540" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:54.480" data-start="01:07:54.480" data-video="qanda-emacsen">people sharing interesting talks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:57.780" data-start="01:07:57.780" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:02.380" data-start="01:08:02.380" data-video="qanda-emacsen">the Emacs conf and to watch me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:06.440" data-start="01:08:06.440" data-video="qanda-emacsen">So thank you all very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:09.360" data-start="01:08:09.360" data-video="qanda-emacsen">I'm going to go do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:10.640" data-start="01:08:10.640" data-video="qanda-emacsen"></span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20emacsen%3A%20The%20Emacsen%20family%2C%20the%20design%20of%20an%20Emacs%20and%20the%20importance%20of%20Lisp">emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org</a></p>
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</div>
Enhancing productivity with voice computing
https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/voice/
Copyright © 2023 Blaine Mooers
2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
2023-09-03T19:59:37Z
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</div>
<h1>Enhancing productivity with voice computing</h1>
<p>Blaine Mooers (he/him/his) - Pronunciation: pronounced like "moors", blaine-mooers(at)ouhsc.edu, <a href="https://basicsciences.ouhsc.edu/bmb/Faculty/bio_details/mooers-blaine-hm-phd">https://basicsciences.ouhsc.edu/bmb/Faculty/bio_details/mooers-blaine-hm-phd</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/BlaineMooers">https://twitter.com/BlaineMooers</a>, <a href="https://github.com/MooersLab">https://github.com/MooersLab</a>, <a href="https://codeberg.org/MooersLab">https://codeberg.org/MooersLab</a>, mastodon(at)bhmooers</p>
<p>Format: 19-min talk; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room<br />
Status: TO_INDEX_QA</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="voice-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main.vtt" default />"""<track kind="chapters" label="Chapters" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main--chapters.vtt" /><p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><pre class="chapters" data-target="voice-mainVideo">
<p>00:00.000 Introduction
00:37.400 Three activities in voice computing
01:02.560 Talk is not about ... and about ...
01:53.520 Motivations
03:33.240 Data
03:58.680 Voice In in the Chrome Store
04:25.628 Works in web pages with text areas
05:16.880 Built-in commands in Voice In Plus
06:41.740 Common errors made by Voice In
08:14.760 Custom speech-to-text commands
09:59.420 Custom speech-to-commands
10:37.540 Introducing Talon Voice
12:28.400 Talon GUI
14:02.540 Talon file with web scope
15:34.015 Terminals on remote and virtual machines
16:52.500 Recommendations
18:17.720 Acknowledgements</p>
</pre>
<div></div>Duration: 18:49 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--intro.vtt">Download --intro.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--intro.webm">Download --intro.webm</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main--chapters.vtt">Download --main--chapters.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main.opus">Download --main.opus (9MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--main.webm">Download --main.webm (32MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--pad.html">Download --pad.html</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--pad.md">Download --pad.md</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/vYHj7iSYhUbTxDv93NvzzY">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="voice-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="voice-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div>Duration: 1:07:47 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (34MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a> (unedited)</li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (205MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
<p><details class="help"><summary>Help wanted: Q&A could be indexed with chapter markers </summary></p>
<p>The Q&A session for this talk does not have chapter markers yet.
Would you like to help? See <span class="selflink">help with chapter markers</span> for more details. You can use the vidid="voice-qanda" if adding the markers to this wiki page, or e-mail your chapter notes to <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.</p>
<p>(If you want to work on this and you think it might take you a while, you can reserve this task by editing the page and adding volunteer="your-name date" or by e-mailing <a href="mailto:emacsconf-submit@gnu.org">emacsconf-submit@gnu.org</a>.)</p>
<p></details></p>
<p>Voice computing uses speech recognition software to convert speech into text, commands, or code.
While there is a venerated program called EmacSpeaks for converting text into speech, an
``EmacsListens'' for converting speech into text is not available yet.
The Emacs Wiki describes the underdeveloped situation for speech-to-text in Emacs.
I will explain how two external software packages convert my speech into text and computer
commands that can be used with Emacs.</p>
<p>First, I present some motivations for using voice computing.
These can be divided into two categories: productivity improvement and health-related issues.
In this second category, there is the underappreciated cure for ``standing desk envy'';
the cure is achievable with a large dose of voice computing while standing.</p>
<p>I found one software package (Voice In) to be quite accurate for speech-to-text or dictation
(Voice In Plus, <a href="https://dictanote.co/voicein/plus/">https://dictanote.co/voicein/plus/</a>), but less versatile for speech-to-commands.
I have used this package daily, and I found a three-fold increase in my daily word count almost
immediately.
Of course, there are limits here; you can talk for only so many hours per day.</p>
<p>Second, I found another software package that has a less accurate language model (Talon Voice,
<a href="http://talon.wiki/">http://talon.wiki/</a>)) but that supports custom commands that can be executed anywhere you can
place the cursor, including in virtual machines and on remote servers.
Talon Voice will appeal to those who like to tinker with configuration files, yet it is easy to
use.</p>
<p>I will explain how I have integrated these two packages into my workflow.
I have developed a library of commands that expand 94 English contractions when spoken.
This library eliminates tedious downstream editing of formal prose where I do not use
contractions.
The library is available on GitHub for both Voice In Plus
(<a href="https://github.com/mooersLab/voice-in-plus-contractions">https://github.com/mooersLab/voice-in-plus-contractions</a>) and Talon Voice
(<a href="https://github.com/MooersLab/talon-contractions">https://github.com/MooersLab/talon-contractions</a>).</p>
<p>I also supply the interactive quizzes to master the basic Voice In commands
(<a href="https://github.com/MooersLab/voice-in-basics-quiz">https://github.com/MooersLab/voice-in-basics-quiz</a>) and the Talon Voice phonetic alphabet
(<a href="https://github.com/MooersLab/talon-voice-quizzes/qTalonAlphabet.py">https://github.com/MooersLab/talon-voice-quizzes/qTalonAlphabet.py</a>)
I learned the Talon alphabet in one day by taking the quiz at spaced intervals.
The quiz took only 60 seconds to complete when I was proficient.</p>
<p>I store my daily writing in a multi-file LaTeX document with one tex file per day.
365 files are compiled into one PDF per year. This is usually about 1000 pages.
I am not going to push my luck with a multiyear document.
Each month is a chapter. The resulting PDF is a breeze to scroll and search.
It has an autogenerated table of contents and an index. I have posted
a blank version for 2023 and another for the upcoming year
(<a href="https://github.com/MooersLab/diary2024inLaTeX">https://github.com/MooersLab/diary2024inLaTeX</a>)
One could take a similar approach in org-mode by using Bastian Bechtold's
org-journal package (<a href="https://github.com/bastibe/org-journal">https://github.com/bastibe/org-journal</a>).</p>
<p>I gave a 60-minute talk on this topic to the Oklahoma Data Science Workshop
2023 Nov. 16 (<a href="https://mediasite.ouhsc.edu/Mediasite/Channel/python">https://mediasite.ouhsc.edu/Mediasite/Channel/python</a>).
This workshop meets once a month and is for people interested in data
science and scientific computing. You do not have to be an Oklahoma
resident to attend. Send me e-mail if you want to be added to our mailing list.</p>
<h1>About the speaker:</h1>
<p>I am an Associate Professor of Biochemistry at the University of
Oklahoma Health Sciences Center. I use X-ray crystallography to study
the structures of RNA, proteins, and protein-drug complexes. I have
been using Python and LaTeX for a dozen years, and Jupyter Notebooks
since 2013. I have been using Emacs every day for 2.5 years. I
discovered voice computing this summer when my chronic repetitive
stress injury flared up while entering data in a spreadsheet. I
tripled my daily word count by using the speech-to-text, and I get a
kick out of running remote computers by speech-to-command.</p>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: Comment there is a text to command thing called clipea that
would be awesome <a href="https://github.com/dave1010/clipea">https://github.com/dave1010/clipea</a>
<ul>
<li>A: <a href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/">https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/</a> also a good
alternative.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Could you comment on how speaking vs. typing affects your
logic/content. Thanks!
<ul>
<li><p>A: I find that this is like the difference between writing your thoughts
down on a blank piece of printer paper versus paper bound with a
leather notebook. I do not think there has any real difference. I know
that some people believe there is a solid certain difference but this
is, for the purpose I am using this, for the purpose of generating the
first draft, because my skills with the-- using my voice to edit my
text is still not very well developed, I am still more efficient using
the keyboard for that stage.</p>
<p>So the hardest part about
writing generally is getting the first crappy draft written. I
have found that dictation is perfectly fine for that phase. I
find it actually very conducive for just getting the text out. The
biggest problem that most of us have is applying our internal editor and
that inhibits us from generating words in a free-flowing
fashion.</p>
<p>I generally do my generative writing--actually, I divide my writing
into two categories: generative writing (generating the first crappy
draft) and then rewriting. Rewriting is probably 80-90% of writing
where you can go back and rework the order of the sentences, order of
paragraphs, the order of words in a sentence and so forth. It is
really hard work that is best done later in the day when I am more
awake. I do my generative writing first thing in the morning when I am
feel horrible. That is when my internal editor is not very awake and I
can get more words out more words past that gatekeeper. I can do this
sitting down. I can do this standing up. I can do this 20 feet away
from my computer looking out the window to get my eyes a break. I find
it is just a very enjoyable to use it in this fashion. The downside is
that I wind up generating three times as much text. That makes for
three times as much work when it comes to rewriting the text, and that
means I am using the keyboard a lot and later on in the day.</p>
<p>I have not made any progress on recovering from my own repetitive
stress injury. I hope that I will add the use of voice commands,
speech-to-commands, for editing the text in the future and I will
eventually give my hands more of a break.</p>
<p>This allows you to actually separate those two activities not only by
time... So many professional writers will spend several hours in the
morning doing the generative part and then they will spend the rest of
the day rewriting. They have separated this to activities temporally.
What most people actually do is they they do the generative part and
then they write one sentence, and they apply that internal editor
right away because they want to write the first draft as a perfect
version, as a final draft, and that is what slows them down
dramatically.</p>
<p>This also allows you to separate these two activities in terms of
modality. You are going to do the generative writing by Voice In, the
rewriting by keyboard. I think this is like what most people... One way
that many people can get into using speech-to-text in a productive way
that sounds great...</p></li>
<li>A: (not the author, just an audiance): So, for example, when
you're talking, you have an immense feeling of the topic you
have. You can close your eyes and do your body gestures to
manipulate a concept or idea, and you have... I just feel you
feel more creative than just tapping. Definitely you have much
more speed advantage over tapping, but more important thing is
you use your body as a whole to interact with those ideas.
[this one is done via voice...]
<ul>
<li>but typing is definitely good for acturate control, such as
M-x some-command ...</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Have you tried the ChatGTP voice chat interface, if so how has
been your experience of it? As someone experienced with voice
control, interested to hear your thoughts, performance relative to
the open source tools in particular.
<ul>
<li>A: I do not have much experience with that particular software. I have
use Whisper a little bit, and so that is related. Of course, you have
this problem of lag. I find that Whisper is good for spitting out a
sentence maybe for a docstring and a programming file. I find that it
is very prone to hallucinations. I find myself spending half my
time deleting the hallucinations, and I feel like the net gain is
diminished as a result, or there has not much of a net gain in terms of
what I am getting out of it.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Are any of these voice command/dictions freemium?
<ul>
<li>A: To be able to add custom commands, you have to pay
$48 a year. The Talon Voice software is free and the only
limitation there is access to the language model. If you want to get
the beta version, you need to subscribe to Patreon to support the
developer. I did that, and I really did not find much of
an improvement. I really do not intend to do that in the future.
But otherwise in Talon Voice, everything is open and free. The Slack
community is incredibly welcoming. Its parallels with
the Emacs Community are pretty striking.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: How good is Talon compared to whisper?
<ul>
<li>A: With Talon, I find that the first part of the sentence will
be fairly accurate. When I am doing dictation and then towards
the end, the errors... In general, I think its error rate is
about five words out of 100 or so or will be wrong. Whisper is
wonderful because it will insert punctuation for you, but I
guess its errors are longer and that will hallucinate full
sentences for you. So they both have significant error rates.
They are just different kinds of errors. Hopefully, both over
time... [Talon] errors are generally shorter in extent. It do
not hallucinate as long.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: are any of those voice command/dictation tools libre? i can not find that information on the web
<ul>
<li>(not the speaker):
<ul>
<li>this FAQ <a href="https://talon.wiki/faq/">https://talon.wiki/faq/</a> says that Talon Voice is closed source</li>
<li>talon voice is non-free <a href="https://talonvoice.com/EULA.txt">https://talonvoice.com/EULA.txt</a></li>
<li>Mistral 7B is apache 2.0 license i.e. no restrictions</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<h2>Notes</h2>
<ul>
<li>From the speaker: I really appreciate the high level of accuracy that I am getting from
Voice In. I would use Talon Voice for dictation, but at this point,
there is a significant difference between the level of accuracy of
Voice In versus Talon Voice. It's large enough of a difference that I'll
probably use Voice In for a while until I can figure out how to get
Talon Voice to generate more accurate text.</li>
<li>When you do Org mode and you have the bullets, it can allows you to naturally shard your thoughts in a way that is really easy to edit. ... It has a
summarizing capability. It allows you to you know pull back and get a
overview.</li>
<li>Great stuff, definitely going to test-drive Talon</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="voice-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:00:00.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Introduction</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.000" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Hi, I'm Blaine Mooers. I'm an associate professor</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:04.360" data-start="00:00:04.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">of biochemistry at the University of Oklahoma</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.520" data-start="00:00:06.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Health Sciences Center in Oklahoma City.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:09.320" data-start="00:00:09.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">My lab studies the role of RNA structure in RNA editing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:12.960" data-start="00:00:12.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">We use X-ray crystallography to study the structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:17.200" data-start="00:00:17.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">of these RNAs. We spend a lot of time in the lab</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:19.920" data-start="00:00:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">preparing our samples for structural studies,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:22.720" data-start="00:00:22.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and then we also spend a lot of time at the computer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.720" data-start="00:00:26.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">analyzing the resulting data.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:29.720" data-start="00:00:29.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I was seeking ways of using voice computing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:33.040" data-start="00:00:33.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to try to enhance my productivity.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:37.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:00:37.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:37.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Three activities in voice computing</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:37.400" data-start="00:00:37.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I divide voice computing into three activities,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:41.320" data-start="00:00:41.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">speech-to-text or dictation, speech-to-commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:44.960" data-start="00:00:44.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and speech-to-code. I'll be talking about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:47.640" data-start="00:00:47.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">speech-to-text and speech-to-commands today</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:50.160" data-start="00:00:50.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">because these are two activities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:55.080" data-start="00:00:55.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that are probably most broadly applicable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:57.320" data-start="00:00:57.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to the workflows of people attending this conference.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:02.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:01:02.560]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:02.560" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Talk is not about ... and about ...</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:02.560" data-start="00:01:02.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This talk will not be about Emacspeak.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.800" data-start="00:01:06.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This is a venerated program for converting text to speech.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:11.360" data-start="00:01:11.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">We're talking about the flow of information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:13.320" data-start="00:01:13.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in the opposite direction, speech-to-text.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:16.520" data-start="00:01:16.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">We need an Emacs Listens. We don't have one,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.600" data-start="00:01:20.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">so I had to seek help from outside the Emacs world</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.480" data-start="00:01:25.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">via the Voice In Plus. This runs in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:30.640" data-start="00:01:30.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the Google Chrome web browser,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:33.640" data-start="00:01:33.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and it's very good for speech-to-text</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.720" data-start="00:01:36.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and very easy to learn how to use.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:39.520" data-start="00:01:39.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It also has some speech-to-commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.000" data-start="00:01:42.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">However, Talon Voice is much better</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:44.800" data-start="00:01:44.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">with the speech-to-commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:47.560" data-start="00:01:47.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and it's also great at speech-to-code.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:53.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:01:53.520]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:53.520" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Motivations</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.520" data-start="00:01:53.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">The motivations are, obviously, as I mentioned already,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:57.240" data-start="00:01:57.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for improved productivity.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:59.160" data-start="00:01:59.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So, if you're a fast typist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:00.400" data-start="00:02:00.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">who types faster than they can speak,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:05.200" data-start="00:02:05.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">then nonetheless you might still benefit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:07.080" data-start="00:02:07.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">from voice computing when you grow tired of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.280" data-start="00:02:09.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">using the keyboard. On the other hand,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.200" data-start="00:02:12.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">you might be a slow typist who talks faster</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.200" data-start="00:02:15.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">than they can type.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:17.520" data-start="00:02:17.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">In this case, you're definitely going to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:19.760" data-start="00:02:19.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">benefit from dictation because you'll be able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:22.860" data-start="00:02:22.860" data-video="mainVideo-voice">encode more words in text documents in a given day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:29.360" data-start="00:02:29.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">If you're a coder, then you may get a kick out of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:33.640" data-start="00:02:33.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">opening programs and websites and coding projects</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:37.000" data-start="00:02:37.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">by using your voice.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.280" data-start="00:02:39.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Then there are health-related reasons.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:41.720" data-start="00:02:41.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You may have impaired use of your hands, eyes, or both</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:44.600" data-start="00:02:44.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">due to accident or disease, or you may suffer from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:49.200" data-start="00:02:49.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">a repetitive stress injury. Many of us have this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:53.520" data-start="00:02:53.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in a mild but chronic form of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:55.760" data-start="00:02:55.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">We can't take a three-month sabbatical from the keyboard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:59.040" data-start="00:02:59.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">without losing our jobs, so these injuries tend to persist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:05.520" data-start="00:03:05.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">And then you may have learned</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.680" data-start="00:03:06.680" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that it's not good for your health to sit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:09.960" data-start="00:03:09.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for prolonged periods of time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:11.920" data-start="00:03:11.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">with your staring at a computer screen.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:14.920" data-start="00:03:14.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can actually dictate to your computer from 20 feet away</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:21.800" data-start="00:03:21.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">while looking out the window,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.000" data-start="00:03:25.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">thereby giving your lower body a break</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:27.780" data-start="00:03:27.780" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and your eyes a break.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:33.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:03:33.240]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:33.240" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Data</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:03:33.240" data-start="00:03:33.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I'm not God, so I have to bring data.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:35.640" data-start="00:03:35.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I have two data points here,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:38.040" data-start="00:03:38.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the number of words that I wrote in June and July this year</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.400" data-start="00:03:42.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and in September and October.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:45.160" data-start="00:03:45.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I adopted the use of voice computing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:49.520" data-start="00:03:49.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in the middle of August. As you can see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.920" data-start="00:03:53.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I got an over three-fold increase in my output.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:58.680" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:03:58.680]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:58.680" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Voice In in the Chrome Store</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:03:58.680" data-start="00:03:58.680" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So this is the Chrome store website for voice-in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:07.120" data-start="00:04:07.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It's only available for Google Chrome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:11.120" data-start="00:04:11.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You just hit the install button to install it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:13.240" data-start="00:04:13.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">To configure it, you need to select a language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:16.640" data-start="00:04:16.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It has support for 40 languages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:19.560" data-start="00:04:19.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and it supports about a dozen different dialects of English,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:23.120" data-start="00:04:23.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">including Australian.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:25.628" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:04:25.628]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:25.628" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Works in web pages with text areas</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:04:25.628" data-start="00:04:25.628" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It works on web pages with text areas,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:29.960" data-start="00:04:29.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">so it works. I use it regularly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:33.320" data-start="00:04:33.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">on Overleaf and 750words.com,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:37.880" data-start="00:04:37.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">a distraction-free environment for writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:42.280" data-start="00:04:42.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It also works in webmails. It works in Google.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:46.780" data-start="00:04:46.780" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It works in Jupyter Lab, of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:51.320" data-start="00:04:51.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">because that runs in the browser.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.880" data-start="00:04:52.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It also works in Jupyter Notebook and Colab Notebook.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.000" data-start="00:04:58.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It should work in Cloudmacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:01.320" data-start="00:05:01.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I've mapped option-L to opening Voice In</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:04.160" data-start="00:05:04.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">when the cursor is on a web page that has a text area.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:09.120" data-start="00:05:09.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So [the presence of a text area is] the main limiting factor.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:16.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:05:16.880]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:16.880" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Built-in commands in Voice In Plus</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:05:16.880" data-start="00:05:16.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[Voice In] has a number of built-in commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.160" data-start="00:05:19.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can turn it off by saying "stop dictation".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.880" data-start="00:05:24.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It doesn't distinguish between</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:26.120" data-start="00:05:26.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">a command mode and a dictation mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.800" data-start="00:05:28.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It has undo command. You use the command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.600" data-start="00:05:33.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">"copy that" to copy a selection.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.920" data-start="00:05:36.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">The "press" commands are used in the browser.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:40.080" data-start="00:05:40.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You [say] "press enter" to issue a command or [submit] text</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:44.840" data-start="00:05:44.840" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that has been written in a web form,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:50.320" data-start="00:05:50.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and then "press tab" will open up the next tab</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:55.280" data-start="00:05:55.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in a web browser. The scroll up and down</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:58.600" data-start="00:05:58.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">will allow you to navigate a web page.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:02.380" data-start="00:06:02.380" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I've put together a quiz about these commands</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:05.820" data-start="00:06:05.820" data-video="mainVideo-voice">so that you can go through this quiz several times</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:09.560" data-start="00:06:09.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">until you get at least 90 percent of them correct,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:14.700" data-start="00:06:14.700" data-video="mainVideo-voice">90 percent of the questions correct.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.680" data-start="00:06:16.680" data-video="mainVideo-voice">In order to boost your recall of the commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:20.600" data-start="00:06:20.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I have a Python script that you can probably</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:23.800" data-start="00:06:23.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">pound through the quiz with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:26.560" data-start="00:06:26.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in less than a minute, once you know the commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:32.160" data-start="00:06:32.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I also provide an Elisp version of this quiz,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.600" data-start="00:06:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">but it's a little slower to operate.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:41.740" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:06:41.740]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:41.740" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Common errors made by Voice In</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:06:41.740" data-start="00:06:41.740" data-video="mainVideo-voice">These are some common errors</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:43.400" data-start="00:06:43.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that I've run into with Voice In.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:45.400" data-start="00:06:45.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It likes to contract statements like "I will" into "I'll".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:50.320" data-start="00:06:50.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Contractions are not used in formal writing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:55.600" data-start="00:06:55.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and most of my writing is formal writing, so this annoys me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.360" data-start="00:07:00.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I will show you how I corrected for that problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:04.760" data-start="00:07:04.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It also drops the first word in sentences quite often.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:10.040" data-start="00:07:10.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This might be some speech issue that I have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:13.360" data-start="00:07:13.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It inserts the wrong word because it's not in the dictionary</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:17.600" data-start="00:07:17.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that was used to train it. So, for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:22.620" data-start="00:07:22.620" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the word PyMOL is the name of a molecular graphics program</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:26.920" data-start="00:07:26.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that we use in our field. It doesn't recognize PyMOL.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:31.640" data-start="00:07:31.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Instead, it substitutes in the word "primal".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:34.240" data-start="00:07:34.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Since I don't use "primal" very often,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.400" data-start="00:07:38.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I've mapped the word "primal" to "PyMOL"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:42.300" data-start="00:07:42.300" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in some custom commands I'll talk about in a minute.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:45.660" data-start="00:07:45.660" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Then there's a problem that the commands that exist</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:50.440" data-start="00:07:50.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">might get executed when you speak them when, in fact,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:54.440" data-start="00:07:54.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">you wanted to use the words in those commands</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:58.840" data-start="00:07:58.840" data-video="mainVideo-voice">during your dictation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:01.440" data-start="00:08:01.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So this is a problem, a pitfall of Voice In,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:07.120" data-start="00:08:07.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in that it doesn't have a command mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:08.920" data-start="00:08:08.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that's separate from a dictation mode.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:14.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:08:14.760]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:14.760" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Custom speech-to-text commands</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:14.760" data-start="00:08:14.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can set up through a very easy-to-use GUI</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:20.320" data-start="00:08:20.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">custom voice commands mapped to what you want inserted,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:26.960" data-start="00:08:26.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">so this is how misinterpreted words can be corrected.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:32.400" data-start="00:08:32.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You just map the misinterpreted word to the intended word.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.760" data-start="00:08:35.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can also map the contractions to their expansions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:42.840" data-start="00:08:42.840" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I did this for 94 English contractions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.960" data-start="00:08:46.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and you can find these on GitHub.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.140" data-start="00:08:50.140" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can also insert acronyms and expand those acronyms.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.080" data-start="00:08:56.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I apply the same approach to the first names of colleagues.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:00.240" data-start="00:09:00.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I say "expand Fred", for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:03.760" data-start="00:09:03.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to get Fred's first and last name</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:07.000" data-start="00:09:07.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">with the [correct] spelling of his very long German name.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:12.600" data-start="00:09:12.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can also insert other trivia like favorite URLs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:19.400" data-start="00:09:19.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can insert LaTeX snippets.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:24.560" data-start="00:09:24.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It handles correctly multi-line snippets.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:34.800" data-start="00:09:34.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You just have to enclose them in double quotes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:39.420" data-start="00:09:39.420" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can even insert BibTeX cite keys for references</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:45.040" data-start="00:09:45.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that you use frequently. All fields</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:46.880" data-start="00:09:46.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">have certain key references for certain methods or topics.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:59.420" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:09:59.420]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:59.420" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Custom speech-to-commands</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:09:59.420" data-start="00:09:59.420" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Then it has a set of commands that you can customize</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:05.080" data-start="00:10:05.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for the purpose of speech-to-commands</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:08.200" data-start="00:10:08.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to get the computer to do something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:09.680" data-start="00:10:09.680" data-video="mainVideo-voice">like open up a specific website or save the current writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:15.400" data-start="00:10:15.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">In this case, we have "press: command-s"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:23.541" data-start="00:10:23.541" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for saving current writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:27.760" data-start="00:10:27.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can change the language [with "lang:"],</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:28.100" data-start="00:10:28.100" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and you can change the case of the text [with "case:"].</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:37.540" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:10:37.540]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:37.540" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Introducing Talon Voice</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.540" data-start="00:10:37.540" data-video="mainVideo-voice">But the speech-to-command repertoire is quite limited</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:41.040" data-start="00:10:41.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in Voice In, so it's now time to pick up on Talon Voice.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:49.760" data-start="00:10:49.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This is an open source project. It's free.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:54.120" data-start="00:10:54.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It is highly configurable via TalonScript,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:57.400" data-start="00:10:57.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">which is a subset of Python.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:58.960" data-start="00:10:58.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can use either TalonScript or Python to configure it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:03.040" data-start="00:11:03.040" data-video="mainVideo-voice">but it's easier to code up your configuration</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:06.280" data-start="00:11:06.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in TalonScript.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.400" data-start="00:11:08.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It has a Python interpreter embedded in it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:10.760" data-start="00:11:10.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">so you don't have to mess around with installing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:13.000" data-start="00:11:13.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">yet another Python interpreter.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:14.560" data-start="00:11:14.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It runs on all platforms, and it has a dictation mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:21.520" data-start="00:11:21.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that's separate from a command mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:24.600" data-start="00:11:24.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You can activate it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:25.600" data-start="00:11:25.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and it'll be in a listening state asleep.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:31.360" data-start="00:11:31.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You just bark out "Talon Wake" to start to wake it up,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:36.280" data-start="00:11:36.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and "Talon Sleep" to have it go into a listening state.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:43.800" data-start="00:11:43.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It has a very welcoming community</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:47.920" data-start="00:11:47.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in the Talon Slack channel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:50.920" data-start="00:11:50.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Then I need to point out that there's several packages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.400" data-start="00:11:56.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that others have developed that run on top of Talon,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:59.200" data-start="00:11:59.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">but one of particular note is by Pokey Rule.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.080" data-start="00:12:03.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">He has on his website some really well-done videos</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:08.120" data-start="00:12:08.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that demonstrate how he uses Cursorless</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:11.480" data-start="00:12:11.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to move the cursor around using voice commands.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:17.240" data-start="00:12:17.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This, however, runs on VS Code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:20.560" data-start="00:12:20.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">At least that's the text editor</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:23.360" data-start="00:12:23.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for which he's primarily developing Cursorless.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:28.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:12:28.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:28.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Talon GUI</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:12:28.400" data-start="00:12:28.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I followed the [install] protocol outlined by Tara Roys.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.520" data-start="00:12:35.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">She has a collection of tutorials</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:38.760" data-start="00:12:38.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">on YouTube as well as on GitHub that are quite helpful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:44.600" data-start="00:12:44.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I followed her tutorial for installing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:49.480" data-start="00:12:49.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Talon on macOS without any issues,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.360" data-start="00:12:51.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">but allow for half an hour to an hour</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:55.320" data-start="00:12:55.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to go through the process. When you're done,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:57.720" data-start="00:12:57.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">you'll have this Talon icon appear in the toolbar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:02.200" data-start="00:13:02.200" data-video="mainVideo-voice">on the Mac. When it has this diagonal line across it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:06.120" data-start="00:13:06.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that means it's in the sleep state.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.540" data-start="00:13:09.540" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So, this leads to cascading pull-down menus.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.520" data-start="00:13:13.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This is it for the GUI.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:19.640" data-start="00:13:19.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">One of your first tasks is to select</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:26.520" data-start="00:13:26.520" data-video="mainVideo-voice">a language model that will be used to interpret</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:30.440" data-start="00:13:30.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the sounds that you generate as words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:35.180" data-start="00:13:35.180" data-video="mainVideo-voice">And the other kind of key feature is that there's a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:38.960" data-start="00:13:38.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">under scripting, there's a view log pull-down</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:43.400" data-start="00:13:43.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that opens up a window displaying the log file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:48.400" data-start="00:13:48.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Whenever you make a change in a Talon configuration file,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:52.880" data-start="00:13:52.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that change is implemented immediately.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:55.080" data-start="00:13:55.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You do not have to restart Talon</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:57.600" data-start="00:13:57.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to get the change to take effect.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:14:02.540" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:14:02.540]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:14:02.540" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Talon file with web scope</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:14:02.540" data-start="00:14:02.540" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This is an example of a Talon file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:04.760" data-start="00:14:04.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It has two components. It has a header above the dash that describes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:10.500" data-start="00:14:10.500" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the scope of the commands contained below the dash.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:14.920" data-start="00:14:14.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Each command is separated by a blank line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:19.740" data-start="00:14:19.740" data-video="mainVideo-voice">If a voice command is mapped to multiple actions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:24.240" data-start="00:14:24.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">these are listed separately on indented lines</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:31.000" data-start="00:14:31.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">below the first line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:33.600" data-start="00:14:33.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">The words that are in square brackets are optional.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:39.420" data-start="00:14:39.420" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So, I have mapped the word toggle voice in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:44.320" data-start="00:14:44.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">or the phrase toggle voice in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:46.320" data-start="00:14:46.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to the keyboard shortcut Alt L</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:51.280" data-start="00:14:51.280" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in order to toggle on or off voice in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:55.000" data-start="00:14:55.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">If I toggle voice in on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:57.880" data-start="00:14:57.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I need to immediately toggle off Talon,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:01.760" data-start="00:15:01.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and this is done through this key command for Control T,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.080" data-start="00:15:09.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">which is mapped to speech toggle.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:11.080" data-start="00:15:11.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Speech toggle. Then there are,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:20.400" data-start="00:15:20.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">there's a couple other examples.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:24.080" data-start="00:15:24.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">So, if there's no header present,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:26.440" data-start="00:15:26.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">it's an optional feature of Talon files,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:29.600" data-start="00:15:29.600" data-video="mainVideo-voice">then the commands in the file will apply in all situations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.640" data-start="00:15:32.640" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in all modes.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:15:34.015" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:15:34.015]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:15:34.015" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Terminals on remote and virtual machines</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:15:34.015" data-start="00:15:34.015" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Here we have two restrictions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.960" data-start="00:15:36.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">These commands will only work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:38.960" data-start="00:15:38.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">when using the iTerm2 [ccc] terminal emulator for the Mac,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:42.960" data-start="00:15:42.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and then only when the title of the window in iTerm2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:48.240" data-start="00:15:48.240" data-video="mainVideo-voice">has this particular address,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:52.440" data-start="00:15:52.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">which is what appears when I've logged into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:55.560" data-start="00:15:55.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the supercomputer at the University of Oklahoma.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:00.060" data-start="00:16:00.060" data-video="mainVideo-voice">One of the commands in this file is checkjobs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:03.480" data-start="00:16:03.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">It's mapped to an alias,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:05.540" data-start="00:16:05.540" data-video="mainVideo-voice">a bash alias called cj for "check jobs",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:10.920" data-start="00:16:10.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">which in turn is mapped to a script called checkjobs.sh</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:17.080" data-start="00:16:17.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">that, when it's run, returns a listing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:20.400" data-start="00:16:20.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">of the pending and running jobs on the supercomputer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:23.220" data-start="00:16:23.220" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in a format that I find pleasing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:26.081" data-start="00:16:26.081" data-video="mainVideo-voice">This <code>\n</code> after cj, the new line character,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:34.560" data-start="00:16:34.560" data-video="mainVideo-voice">enters the command, so I don't have to do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:39.840" data-start="00:16:39.840" data-video="mainVideo-voice">as an additional step. Likewise,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:43.800" data-start="00:16:43.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">here's a similar setup for interacting with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:46.800" data-start="00:16:46.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">a Ubuntu virtual machine.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:52.500" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:16:52.500]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:16:52.500" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Recommendations</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:16:52.500" data-start="00:16:52.500" data-video="mainVideo-voice">In terms of picking up voice computing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:55.920" data-start="00:16:55.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">these are my recommendations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:57.480" data-start="00:16:57.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You're going to run into more errors</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:59.760" data-start="00:16:59.760" data-video="mainVideo-voice">than you may like initially,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:01.480" data-start="00:17:01.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and so you need some patience in dealing with those.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:07.840" data-start="00:17:07.840" data-video="mainVideo-voice">And also, it'll take you a while</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:09.920" data-start="00:17:09.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to get your head wrapped around Talon and how it works.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:16.800" data-start="00:17:16.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You'll definitely want to use these custom commands</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:19.440" data-start="00:17:19.440" data-video="mainVideo-voice">to correct the errors or shortcomings</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:21.480" data-start="00:17:21.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">of the language models. And you've seen how,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:26.920" data-start="00:17:26.920" data-video="mainVideo-voice">by opening up projects by voice commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:29.880" data-start="00:17:29.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">you can reduce friction</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:31.360" data-start="00:17:31.360" data-video="mainVideo-voice">in terms of restarting work on a project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:36.660" data-start="00:17:36.660" data-video="mainVideo-voice">You've seen how Voice In is preferred</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:40.400" data-start="00:17:40.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for more accurate dictation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:44.880" data-start="00:17:44.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I think my error rate is about 1 to 2 percent.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:48.080" data-start="00:17:48.080" data-video="mainVideo-voice">That is, 1 to 2 out of 100 words are incorrect</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:53.880" data-start="00:17:53.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">versus Talon Voice where I think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:56.320" data-start="00:17:56.320" data-video="mainVideo-voice">the error rate is closer to 5 percent.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.840" data-start="00:18:00.840" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I have put together [a library of English] contractions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:03.508" data-start="00:18:03.508" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[and their expansion] for Talon [too],</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:04.881" data-start="00:18:04.881" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and they can be found here on GitHub.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:07.480" data-start="00:18:07.480" data-video="mainVideo-voice">And I also have [posted] a quiz of 600 questions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:12.960" data-start="00:18:12.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">about some basic Talon commands.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:18:17.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">[00:18:17.720]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:18:17.720" title="" data-video="mainVideo-voice">Acknowledgements</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:18:17.720" data-start="00:18:17.720" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I'd like to thank the people who've helped me out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:21.000" data-start="00:18:21.000" data-video="mainVideo-voice">on the Talon Slack channel</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:22.160" data-start="00:18:22.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and members of the Oklahoma Data Science Workshop</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:25.800" data-start="00:18:25.800" data-video="mainVideo-voice">where I gave an hour-long talk on this topic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:29.880" data-start="00:18:29.880" data-video="mainVideo-voice">several weeks ago.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:30.960" data-start="00:18:30.960" data-video="mainVideo-voice">I'd like to thank my friends</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:34.160" data-start="00:18:34.160" data-video="mainVideo-voice">at the Berlin and Austin Emacs Meetup</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:37.400" data-start="00:18:37.400" data-video="mainVideo-voice">and at the M-x research Slack channel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:42.660" data-start="00:18:42.660" data-video="mainVideo-voice">And I thank these grant funding agencies</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:45.120" data-start="00:18:45.120" data-video="mainVideo-voice">for supporting my work. I'll be happy to take any questions.</span></p>
<p><a name="voice-qanda-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.480" data-start="00:00:00.480" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.020" data-start="00:00:06.020" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:08.980" data-start="00:00:08.980" data-video="qanda-voice">The stream is here. So folks if you would</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:11.320" data-start="00:00:11.320" data-video="qanda-voice">please post your questions on the pad and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:13.259" data-start="00:00:13.259" data-video="qanda-voice">we'll take them up here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:20.500" data-start="00:00:20.500" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:25.140" data-start="00:00:25.140" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.939" data-start="00:00:26.939" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:27.900" data-start="00:00:27.900" data-video="qanda-voice">Thank you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:28.779" data-start="00:00:28.779" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:29.220" data-start="00:00:29.220" data-video="qanda-voice">Thanks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.380" data-start="00:00:58.380" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:01.400" data-start="00:01:01.400" data-video="qanda-voice">little bit, I can provide a live</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:03.840" data-start="00:01:03.840" data-video="qanda-voice">demonstration of the use of this Voice In</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.300" data-start="00:01:06.300" data-video="qanda-voice">plugin for Google Chrome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:11.080" data-start="00:01:11.080" data-video="qanda-voice">So I have, let's see, say new sentence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.400" data-start="00:01:20.400" data-video="qanda-voice">I'm on a website that is called 750 words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.080" data-start="00:01:25.080" data-video="qanda-voice">It provides a text area where without any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:30.580" data-start="00:01:30.580" data-video="qanda-voice">other distracting icons for the purpose of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:34.040" data-start="00:01:34.040" data-video="qanda-voice">writing and I'm using it for the purpose of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:38.680" data-start="00:01:38.680" data-video="qanda-voice">capturing my words that I'm dictating and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.979" data-start="00:01:42.979" data-video="qanda-voice">have enabled the Voice In plugin by hitting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:48.280" data-start="00:01:48.280" data-video="qanda-voice">the option L command. New sentence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:54.479" data-start="00:01:54.479" data-video="qanda-voice">So it interpreted that command new sentence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:56.260" data-start="00:01:56.260" data-video="qanda-voice">even though I didn't pronounce it correctly,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:59.440" data-start="00:01:59.440" data-video="qanda-voice">which is a pretty good demonstration of its</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:00.920" data-start="00:02:00.920" data-video="qanda-voice">accuracy. New sentence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:06.420" data-start="00:02:06.420" data-video="qanda-voice">Oops, that didn't work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.040" data-start="00:02:15.040" data-video="qanda-voice">Undo. New sentence. So new sentence is a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:16.040" data-start="00:02:16.040" data-video="qanda-voice">combination of 2 commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:23.820" data-start="00:02:23.820" data-video="qanda-voice">period and new line. So I've found it more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:25.840" data-start="00:02:25.840" data-video="qanda-voice">convenient just to say new sentence than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:28.440" data-start="00:02:28.440" data-video="qanda-voice">having to say period and new line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:33.900" data-start="00:02:33.900" data-video="qanda-voice">You can see that it's able to keep up with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:41.840" data-start="00:02:41.840" data-video="qanda-voice">most of my speech, and it has to interpret</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:44.760" data-start="00:02:44.760" data-video="qanda-voice">the sounds that I'm making and convert those</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:47.600" data-start="00:02:47.600" data-video="qanda-voice">into words, so there's always going to be a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:59.580" data-start="00:02:59.580" data-video="qanda-voice">lag. New sentence. But I've found that I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:02.720" data-start="00:03:02.720" data-video="qanda-voice">generate about 2,000, up to 2,000</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:07.040" data-start="00:03:07.040" data-video="qanda-voice">words an hour as I gather my thoughts and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:10.960" data-start="00:03:10.960" data-video="qanda-voice">talk in my rather slow fashion of speaking.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:15.860" data-start="00:03:15.860" data-video="qanda-voice">New sentence, if you're a really fast</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:18.560" data-start="00:03:18.560" data-video="qanda-voice">speaker, it might have trouble keeping up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:30.860" data-start="00:03:30.860" data-video="qanda-voice">New sentence. I like to write When I'm using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:34.360" data-start="00:03:34.360" data-video="qanda-voice">the keyboard with 1 sentence per line,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:38.520" data-start="00:03:38.520" data-video="qanda-voice">so that when I copy my text and paste it into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:43.680" data-start="00:03:43.680" data-video="qanda-voice">Emacs, for example, I can resort the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:47.300" data-start="00:03:47.300" data-video="qanda-voice">sentences very easily by just selecting 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:50.600" data-start="00:03:50.600" data-video="qanda-voice">line at a time. I like to keep the sentences</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.480" data-start="00:03:53.480" data-video="qanda-voice">unwrapped in that fashion because that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:56.320" data-start="00:03:56.320" data-video="qanda-voice">greatly eases the rewriting phase.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.120" data-start="00:04:01.120" data-video="qanda-voice">And I'm almost have sort of a hybrid reverse</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.160" data-start="00:04:03.160" data-video="qanda-voice">outlining approach by doing that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:14.340" data-start="00:04:14.340" data-video="qanda-voice">New sentence. Looks like I have gotten ahead</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:18.079" data-start="00:04:18.079" data-video="qanda-voice">of it a bit and it has not kept up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:21.560" data-start="00:04:21.560" data-video="qanda-voice">But generally, it does keep up pretty well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:26.180" data-start="00:04:26.180" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:30.380" data-start="00:04:30.380" data-video="qanda-voice">Let's see. I think we have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:31.480" data-start="00:04:31.480" data-video="qanda-voice">Yeah, sorry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:33.520" data-start="00:04:33.520" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:42.380" data-start="00:04:42.380" data-video="qanda-voice">You can see that it has this EN means English</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:46.880" data-start="00:04:46.880" data-video="qanda-voice">and then dash US. There's actually about 40</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:48.000" data-start="00:04:48.000" data-video="qanda-voice">languages that it supports,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.280" data-start="00:04:52.280" data-video="qanda-voice">including several variants of German and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:54.640" data-start="00:04:54.640" data-video="qanda-voice">about a dozen English dialects.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:05.200" data-start="00:05:05.200" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:06.860" data-start="00:05:06.860" data-video="qanda-voice">comments and questions trickling in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:11.160" data-start="00:05:11.160" data-video="qanda-voice">So someone is saying that there is a text to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:14.700" data-start="00:05:14.700" data-video="qanda-voice">command application or utility called Clipia,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.395" data-start="00:05:19.395" data-video="qanda-voice">C-L-I-P-I-A, that they think is awesome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.860" data-start="00:05:19.860" data-video="qanda-voice">Clipia that they think is awesome.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.960" data-start="00:05:24.960" data-video="qanda-voice">And someone else is also saying that Sox,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:27.180" data-start="00:05:27.180" data-video="qanda-voice">S-O-X is another good alternative.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:34.560" data-start="00:05:34.560" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.740" data-start="00:05:36.740" data-video="qanda-voice">So thank you very much for the suggestions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:42.700" data-start="00:05:42.700" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:45.360" data-start="00:05:45.360" data-video="qanda-voice">page here in the chat and on the big blue</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:47.320" data-start="00:05:47.320" data-video="qanda-voice">button if you'd like to open that up as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:50.280" data-start="00:05:50.280" data-video="qanda-voice">But I'll continue reading the comments and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.340" data-start="00:05:54.340" data-video="qanda-voice">questions. So the first question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.420" data-start="00:05:56.420" data-video="qanda-voice">I guess, is that could you comment on how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:01.800" data-start="00:06:01.800" data-video="qanda-voice">speaking versus typing affects your logic or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:03.260" data-start="00:06:03.260" data-video="qanda-voice">the content, quote unquote,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:05.020" data-start="00:06:05.020" data-video="qanda-voice">that you write?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:10.320" data-start="00:06:10.320" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:15.600" data-start="00:06:15.600" data-video="qanda-voice">between writing your thoughts down on a blank</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:18.640" data-start="00:06:18.640" data-video="qanda-voice">piece of printer paper versus paper bound</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:21.100" data-start="00:06:21.100" data-video="qanda-voice">with a leather notebook.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:24.300" data-start="00:06:24.300" data-video="qanda-voice">I don't think there's any real difference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:27.980" data-start="00:06:27.980" data-video="qanda-voice">I know that some people believe there is a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:29.540" data-start="00:06:29.540" data-video="qanda-voice">solid certain difference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:32.580" data-start="00:06:32.580" data-video="qanda-voice">But this is for the purpose,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:34.540" data-start="00:06:34.540" data-video="qanda-voice">I'm using this for the purpose of generating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:40.340" data-start="00:06:40.340" data-video="qanda-voice">the first draft because my skills with using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:44.160" data-start="00:06:44.160" data-video="qanda-voice">my voice to edit my text is still not very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:46.240" data-start="00:06:46.240" data-video="qanda-voice">well developed. I'm still more efficient</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:49.120" data-start="00:06:49.120" data-video="qanda-voice">using the keyboard for that stage.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:52.200" data-start="00:06:52.200" data-video="qanda-voice">So the hardest part about writing generally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:55.160" data-start="00:06:55.160" data-video="qanda-voice">is getting the first crappy draft written.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.040" data-start="00:07:00.040" data-video="qanda-voice">And so I have found that dictation is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:01.480" data-start="00:07:01.480" data-video="qanda-voice">perfectly fine for that phase.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:07.060" data-start="00:07:07.060" data-video="qanda-voice">And I find it actually very conducive for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:09.480" data-start="00:07:09.480" data-video="qanda-voice">just getting the text out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:13.500" data-start="00:07:13.500" data-video="qanda-voice">The biggest problem that most of us have is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:15.080" data-start="00:07:15.080" data-video="qanda-voice">applying our internal editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:20.280" data-start="00:07:20.280" data-video="qanda-voice">And that inhibits us from generating words in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:21.600" data-start="00:07:21.600" data-video="qanda-voice">a free-flowing fashion.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:26.000" data-start="00:07:26.000" data-video="qanda-voice">So I generally do my generative writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:28.740" data-start="00:07:28.740" data-video="qanda-voice">So actually I divide my writing into 2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:30.240" data-start="00:07:30.240" data-video="qanda-voice">categories, generative writing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:32.320" data-start="00:07:32.320" data-video="qanda-voice">generating the first crappy draft,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:35.920" data-start="00:07:35.920" data-video="qanda-voice">and then rewriting. Rewriting is probably 80,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.520" data-start="00:07:38.520" data-video="qanda-voice">90% of writing where you go back and rework</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:40.600" data-start="00:07:40.600" data-video="qanda-voice">the order of the sentences,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:43.840" data-start="00:07:43.840" data-video="qanda-voice">order of paragraphs, the order of words in a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.700" data-start="00:07:44.700" data-video="qanda-voice">sentence and so forth.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:47.540" data-start="00:07:47.540" data-video="qanda-voice">The really hard work. That's best done later</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:49.740" data-start="00:07:49.740" data-video="qanda-voice">in the day when I'm more awake.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:52.880" data-start="00:07:52.880" data-video="qanda-voice">I do my general writing first thing in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.320" data-start="00:07:55.320" data-video="qanda-voice">morning when I feel horrible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.440" data-start="00:07:59.440" data-video="qanda-voice">I'm not very alert. That's when my internal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:03.340" data-start="00:08:03.340" data-video="qanda-voice">editor is not very awake and I can get more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:05.760" data-start="00:08:05.760" data-video="qanda-voice">words out, more words past that gatekeeper.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:09.280" data-start="00:08:09.280" data-video="qanda-voice">And so I can do this sitting down,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:10.640" data-start="00:08:10.640" data-video="qanda-voice">I can do this standing up,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.800" data-start="00:08:12.800" data-video="qanda-voice">I can do this 20 feet away from my computer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.440" data-start="00:08:15.440" data-video="qanda-voice">looking out the window to give my eyes a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:19.540" data-start="00:08:19.540" data-video="qanda-voice">break. So I find it's actually very enjoyable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:21.440" data-start="00:08:21.440" data-video="qanda-voice">to use it in this fashion.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:29.640" data-start="00:08:29.640" data-video="qanda-voice">And the downside is that I wind up generating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:32.720" data-start="00:08:32.720" data-video="qanda-voice">3 times as much text, and that makes for 3</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.140" data-start="00:08:35.140" data-video="qanda-voice">times as much work when it comes to rewriting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:39.780" data-start="00:08:39.780" data-video="qanda-voice">the text. And that means I'm using the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:45.040" data-start="00:08:45.040" data-video="qanda-voice">keyboard a lot later on in the day and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:47.720" data-start="00:08:47.720" data-video="qanda-voice">haven't made any progress on recovering from</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:49.760" data-start="00:08:49.760" data-video="qanda-voice">my own repetitive stress injury.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.880" data-start="00:08:56.880" data-video="qanda-voice">I hope that I will add the use of voice</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:59.720" data-start="00:08:59.720" data-video="qanda-voice">commands, speech to commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:02.800" data-start="00:09:02.800" data-video="qanda-voice">for editing the text in the future.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:06.880" data-start="00:09:06.880" data-video="qanda-voice">And I'll eventually give my hands more of a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:07.040" data-start="00:09:07.040" data-video="qanda-voice">break.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:12.280" data-start="00:09:12.280" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:15.360" data-start="00:09:15.360" data-video="qanda-voice">flow of sort of being able to get your words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:18.740" data-start="00:09:18.740" data-video="qanda-voice">out while your internal editor is still not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:21.220" data-start="00:09:21.220" data-video="qanda-voice">inhibiting things. And then later in the day</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.320" data-start="00:09:25.320" data-video="qanda-voice">or days, get back to the actual rewriting and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.520" data-start="00:09:25.520" data-video="qanda-voice">editing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:31.320" data-start="00:09:31.320" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:33.640" data-start="00:09:33.640" data-video="qanda-voice">those 2 activities, not only by time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:36.840" data-start="00:09:36.840" data-video="qanda-voice">So many professional writers will spend</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:39.000" data-start="00:09:39.000" data-video="qanda-voice">several hours in the morning doing the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:41.040" data-start="00:09:41.040" data-video="qanda-voice">generative part and then they'll spend the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:41.920" data-start="00:09:41.920" data-video="qanda-voice">rest of the day rewriting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:46.000" data-start="00:09:46.000" data-video="qanda-voice">So they have separated those 2 activities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:49.340" data-start="00:09:49.340" data-video="qanda-voice">temporally. What most people actually do is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:51.540" data-start="00:09:51.540" data-video="qanda-voice">you know, they do the generative part and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:53.300" data-start="00:09:53.300" data-video="qanda-voice">then they write 1 sentence and they apply</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:55.460" data-start="00:09:55.460" data-video="qanda-voice">that internal editor right away because they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:57.720" data-start="00:09:57.720" data-video="qanda-voice">want to write the first draft in a perfect,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:02.400" data-start="00:10:02.400" data-video="qanda-voice">as a perfect version as the final draft And</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:03.840" data-start="00:10:03.840" data-video="qanda-voice">that slows them down dramatically.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:08.160" data-start="00:10:08.160" data-video="qanda-voice">But this also allows you to separate these 2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:10.320" data-start="00:10:10.320" data-video="qanda-voice">activities in terms of modality.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:13.940" data-start="00:10:13.940" data-video="qanda-voice">You're going to do the generative writing by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:16.560" data-start="00:10:16.560" data-video="qanda-voice">voice and the rewriting by keyboard.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:22.200" data-start="00:10:22.200" data-video="qanda-voice">So I think this is 1 way that many people can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:26.040" data-start="00:10:26.040" data-video="qanda-voice">get into using speech to text in a productive</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:26.640" data-start="00:10:26.640" data-video="qanda-voice">way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:30.480" data-start="00:10:30.480" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:33.940" data-start="00:10:33.940" data-video="qanda-voice">Let's see. I think we have about 3 or 4</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.840" data-start="00:10:37.840" data-video="qanda-voice">minutes live. So I think we have time for at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:38.560" data-start="00:10:38.560" data-video="qanda-voice">least another question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:41.920" data-start="00:10:41.920" data-video="qanda-voice">Have you tried the chat GPT voice chat</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:44.540" data-start="00:10:44.540" data-video="qanda-voice">interface? And if so, how has been your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:47.020" data-start="00:10:47.020" data-video="qanda-voice">experience of it? As someone experienced with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:48.640" data-start="00:10:48.640" data-video="qanda-voice">voice control, interested to hear your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:51.940" data-start="00:10:51.940" data-video="qanda-voice">thoughts, performance relative to the free</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:52.960" data-start="00:10:52.960" data-video="qanda-voice">software tools in particular?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:57.180" data-start="00:10:57.180" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:01.320" data-start="00:11:01.320" data-video="qanda-voice">particular software. I have used Whisper a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:03.400" data-start="00:11:03.400" data-video="qanda-voice">little bit. And so that's related.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:10.260" data-start="00:11:10.260" data-video="qanda-voice">And of course you have this problem of lag so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.800" data-start="00:11:12.800" data-video="qanda-voice">I find that it's a whisper is good for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.380" data-start="00:11:16.380" data-video="qanda-voice">spitting out a sentence you know maybe for a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:20.160" data-start="00:11:20.160" data-video="qanda-voice">doc string in a programming file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:26.060" data-start="00:11:26.060" data-video="qanda-voice">But I find that it's very prone to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:30.060" data-start="00:11:30.060" data-video="qanda-voice">hallucinations. And I find myself spending</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:32.720" data-start="00:11:32.720" data-video="qanda-voice">half my time deleting the hallucinations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.700" data-start="00:11:38.700" data-video="qanda-voice">I feel like the net gain is diminished as a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:41.580" data-start="00:11:41.580" data-video="qanda-voice">result. There's not much of a net gain in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:43.340" data-start="00:11:43.340" data-video="qanda-voice">terms of what I'm getting out of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:45.800" data-start="00:11:45.800" data-video="qanda-voice">Whereas I really appreciate the high level of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:48.780" data-start="00:11:48.780" data-video="qanda-voice">accuracy that I'm getting from voice-in.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:53.400" data-start="00:11:53.400" data-video="qanda-voice">I would use Talon Voice for dictation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.680" data-start="00:11:56.680" data-video="qanda-voice">but at this point, there's a significant</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:00.440" data-start="00:12:00.440" data-video="qanda-voice">difference between the level of accuracy of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:02.040" data-start="00:12:02.040" data-video="qanda-voice">voice-in versus Talon voice.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:06.260" data-start="00:12:06.260" data-video="qanda-voice">It's large enough of a difference that I'll</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:08.860" data-start="00:12:08.860" data-video="qanda-voice">probably use voice-in for a while until I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:12.700" data-start="00:12:12.700" data-video="qanda-voice">figure out how to get town voice to generate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.080" data-start="00:12:15.080" data-video="qanda-voice">more accurate text.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:25.400" data-start="00:12:25.400" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:26.580" data-start="00:12:26.580" data-video="qanda-voice">another 2 or 3 minutes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:29.100" data-start="00:12:29.100" data-video="qanda-voice">So if folks have any other questions Please</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:31.080" data-start="00:12:31.080" data-video="qanda-voice">feel free to post them on the pad and I'll</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:32.560" data-start="00:12:32.560" data-video="qanda-voice">check IRC now as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:44.340" data-start="00:12:44.340" data-video="qanda-voice">Right, so I see 1 question on IRC asking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:47.080" data-start="00:12:47.080" data-video="qanda-voice">Are any of these voice command slash</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:49.600" data-start="00:12:49.600" data-video="qanda-voice">dictating dictation tools free Libre</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:52.260" data-start="00:12:52.260" data-video="qanda-voice">software? They cannot find that information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:54.840" data-start="00:12:54.840" data-video="qanda-voice">Which I think is part of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:55.320" data-start="00:12:55.320" data-video="qanda-voice">You just mentioned</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:57.280" data-start="00:12:57.280" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:03.260" data-start="00:13:03.260" data-video="qanda-voice">There's It's a freemium so The answer is no</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:05.640" data-start="00:13:05.640" data-video="qanda-voice">To be able to add the commands,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.000" data-start="00:13:09.000" data-video="qanda-voice">the custom commands, you have to pay $48 a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:12.040" data-start="00:13:12.040" data-video="qanda-voice">year. The Talon Voice software is free.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:20.080" data-start="00:13:20.080" data-video="qanda-voice">And the only limitation there is access to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:23.560" data-start="00:13:23.560" data-video="qanda-voice">the language model. If you want to get the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:26.720" data-start="00:13:26.720" data-video="qanda-voice">beta version, you need to subscribe to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:30.820" data-start="00:13:30.820" data-video="qanda-voice">Patreon to help support the developer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:36.180" data-start="00:13:36.180" data-video="qanda-voice">And I found, I did do that and I really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:37.400" data-start="00:13:37.400" data-video="qanda-voice">didn't find much of an improvement.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:43.620" data-start="00:13:43.620" data-video="qanda-voice">So I really don't intend to do that in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:47.100" data-start="00:13:47.100" data-video="qanda-voice">future. But otherwise,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:50.680" data-start="00:13:50.680" data-video="qanda-voice">Town Voice, everything is open and free,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:54.380" data-start="00:13:54.380" data-video="qanda-voice">and the Slack community is incredibly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:58.340" data-start="00:13:58.340" data-video="qanda-voice">welcoming. The parallels with the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:00.060" data-start="00:14:00.060" data-video="qanda-voice">community are pretty striking.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:09.520" data-start="00:14:09.520" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:11.800" data-start="00:14:11.800" data-video="qanda-voice">I think we have about another minute on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.780" data-start="00:14:13.780" data-video="qanda-voice">live stream, but I believe the big blue</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:16.560" data-start="00:14:16.560" data-video="qanda-voice">button room here is open and will be open,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:19.860" data-start="00:14:19.860" data-video="qanda-voice">So if folks want to join,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:21.840" data-start="00:14:21.840" data-video="qanda-voice">if Blaine maybe has a couple of extra</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:24.680" data-start="00:14:24.680" data-video="qanda-voice">minutes. Awesome. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:26.580" data-start="00:14:26.580" data-video="qanda-voice">then you're welcome to join and chat with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:28.980" data-start="00:14:28.980" data-video="qanda-voice">Blaine and ask any further questions or just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:30.060" data-start="00:14:30.060" data-video="qanda-voice">do general chatting. Chatting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:44.020" data-start="00:14:44.020" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:53.040" data-start="00:14:53.040" data-video="qanda-voice">compared to Whisper? So with Talon,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:55.380" data-start="00:14:55.380" data-video="qanda-voice">I find that the first part of the sentence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:00.620" data-start="00:15:00.620" data-video="qanda-voice">will be fairly accurate and then when I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:03.480" data-start="00:15:03.480" data-video="qanda-voice">doing dictation And then towards the end,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:05.640" data-start="00:15:05.640" data-video="qanda-voice">the errors start to accumulate.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.520" data-start="00:15:09.520" data-video="qanda-voice">So in general, I think it's error rate is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:12.880" data-start="00:15:12.880" data-video="qanda-voice">about 5 words out of a hundred or so will be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:17.560" data-start="00:15:17.560" data-video="qanda-voice">wrong. And whisper, Whisper is wonderful</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:21.000" data-start="00:15:21.000" data-video="qanda-voice">because it will insert punctuation for you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:26.120" data-start="00:15:26.120" data-video="qanda-voice">But I guess its errors are longer and that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:28.740" data-start="00:15:28.740" data-video="qanda-voice">it'll hallucinate full sentences for you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:35.460" data-start="00:15:35.460" data-video="qanda-voice">So they both have significant error rates.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:37.280" data-start="00:15:37.280" data-video="qanda-voice">They're just different kinds of errors.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:42.340" data-start="00:15:42.340" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:49.000" data-start="00:15:49.000" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:50.740" data-start="00:15:50.740" data-video="qanda-voice">Right.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:04.620" data-start="00:16:04.620" data-video="qanda-voice">Let's see. There's a question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:09.060" data-start="00:16:09.060" data-video="qanda-voice">Are the green block the author for this talk?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:13.380" data-start="00:16:13.380" data-video="qanda-voice">Not sure what that question means.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:19.180" data-start="00:16:19.180" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:22.540" data-start="00:16:22.540" data-video="qanda-voice">think being generated from voice to text,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:25.560" data-start="00:16:25.560" data-video="qanda-voice">speech to text. At the top of the pad,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:26.500" data-start="00:16:26.500" data-video="qanda-voice">I think that's the question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:40.060" data-start="00:16:40.060" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:43.080" data-start="00:16:43.080" data-video="qanda-voice">this GitHub, on this 750words.com</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:51.960" data-start="00:16:51.960" data-video="qanda-voice">site where I do my generative writing at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:57.340" data-start="00:16:57.340" data-video="qanda-voice">start of the day. And it just provides a text</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:59.600" data-start="00:16:59.600" data-video="qanda-voice">area that's free of distractions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:03.220" data-start="00:17:03.220" data-video="qanda-voice">And you can see the text that's being</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:08.440" data-start="00:17:08.440" data-video="qanda-voice">recorded as I talk. I haven't been saying the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:12.440" data-start="00:17:12.440" data-video="qanda-voice">command new sentence, so there isn't any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:15.980" data-start="00:17:15.980" data-video="qanda-voice">punctuation over our discourse.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:24.380" data-start="00:17:24.380" data-video="qanda-voice">1 thing that I do at the start of the day is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:27.440" data-start="00:17:27.440" data-video="qanda-voice">I like to write in LaTeX.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:33.600" data-start="00:17:33.600" data-video="qanda-voice">Ultimately, that's how I store my writing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:37.500" data-start="00:17:37.500" data-video="qanda-voice">So new sentence, new sentence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:51.680" data-start="00:17:51.680" data-video="qanda-voice">See, insert start day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:58.960" data-start="00:17:58.960" data-video="qanda-voice">So This is an example of a chunk of LaTeX</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:02.620" data-start="00:18:02.620" data-video="qanda-voice">code. So I have some reflections on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:04.640" data-start="00:18:04.640" data-video="qanda-voice">you know, what did I wake up this morning?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.000" data-start="00:18:08.000" data-video="qanda-voice">And how do I feel? I have reflections on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:10.680" data-start="00:18:10.680" data-video="qanda-voice">prior day in terms of what did I get done</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:12.240" data-start="00:18:12.240" data-video="qanda-voice">yesterday? Do I remember what I did</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:14.140" data-start="00:18:14.140" data-video="qanda-voice">yesterday? What happened last night?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:16.940" data-start="00:18:16.940" data-video="qanda-voice">Focus of today. What's to be done today?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.180" data-start="00:18:23.180" data-video="qanda-voice">And so on. So I actually,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:24.840" data-start="00:18:24.840" data-video="qanda-voice">I think I have more down here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:31.420" data-start="00:18:31.420" data-video="qanda-voice">Then I've set up these lists so that I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:33.760" data-start="00:18:33.760" data-video="qanda-voice">expand them easily. If I say item,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:40.720" data-start="00:18:40.720" data-video="qanda-voice">then the cursor shows up at the start of an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:45.600" data-start="00:18:45.600" data-video="qanda-voice">item. And I have it coded so that that new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:48.700" data-start="00:18:48.700" data-video="qanda-voice">phrase that I speak will start with a capital</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:52.480" data-start="00:18:52.480" data-video="qanda-voice">letter. As you can see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:54.520" data-start="00:18:54.520" data-video="qanda-voice">so capitalize the word and.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:02.860" data-start="00:19:02.860" data-video="qanda-voice">So in spite of its rather limited command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:06.000" data-start="00:19:06.000" data-video="qanda-voice">syntax, There's some, it's enough to get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:08.000" data-start="00:19:08.000" data-video="qanda-voice">started and maybe in the future,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:09.360" data-start="00:19:09.360" data-video="qanda-voice">they'll add more features.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:14.540" data-start="00:19:14.540" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:21.440" data-start="00:19:21.440" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:28.840" data-start="00:19:28.840" data-video="qanda-voice">you know, doing things like expanding the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:32.780" data-start="00:19:32.780" data-video="qanda-voice">names of people. So you can do set up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:36.100" data-start="00:19:36.100" data-video="qanda-voice">commands like expand the name of a colleague</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:40.520" data-start="00:19:40.520" data-video="qanda-voice">to go from their first name to their full</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:42.900" data-start="00:19:42.900" data-video="qanda-voice">name with a proper spelling of their last</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:45.240" data-start="00:19:45.240" data-video="qanda-voice">name, which, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:47.420" data-start="00:19:47.420" data-video="qanda-voice">you can wind up spending a lot of time trying</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:53.400" data-start="00:19:53.400" data-video="qanda-voice">to look that up. And so this voice in with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:57.560" data-start="00:19:57.560" data-video="qanda-voice">the custom commands enables you to store hard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:59.540" data-start="00:19:59.540" data-video="qanda-voice">to remember information like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:08.040" data-start="00:20:08.040" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:11.140" data-start="00:20:11.140" data-video="qanda-voice">How good is Talon compared to Whisper?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:13.140" data-start="00:20:13.140" data-video="qanda-voice">I think you might have answered that already,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:14.380" data-start="00:20:14.380" data-video="qanda-voice">at least partially, but...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:19.860" data-start="00:20:19.860" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:22.580" data-start="00:20:22.580" data-video="qanda-voice">Whisperer will carry out hallucinations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:26.280" data-start="00:20:26.280" data-video="qanda-voice">so it will generate long tracks of error,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:30.340" data-start="00:20:30.340" data-video="qanda-voice">whereas Talon will tend to generate more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:31.960" data-start="00:20:31.960" data-video="qanda-voice">errors towards the ends of sentences,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:36.820" data-start="00:20:36.820" data-video="qanda-voice">in my experience. And the errors are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:37.960" data-start="00:20:37.960" data-video="qanda-voice">generally shorter in extent.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:42.180" data-start="00:20:42.180" data-video="qanda-voice">It doesn't hallucinate for long tracks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:50.660" data-start="00:20:50.660" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:51.760" data-start="00:20:51.760" data-video="qanda-voice">that we have on the pad.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:54.720" data-start="00:20:54.720" data-video="qanda-voice">If folks want to join here on Big Blue Button</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:56.680" data-start="00:20:56.680" data-video="qanda-voice">for a few minutes and chat with Blaine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:00.260" data-start="00:21:00.260" data-video="qanda-voice">that also works. Let's see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:02.080" data-start="00:21:02.080" data-video="qanda-voice">I'm probably going to have to drop in a few</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:03.900" data-start="00:21:03.900" data-video="qanda-voice">minutes to catch the next speaker.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:07.860" data-start="00:21:07.860" data-video="qanda-voice">But many thanks, Blaine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:09.520" data-start="00:21:09.520" data-video="qanda-voice">for a great talk and for the interesting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:11.180" data-start="00:21:11.180" data-video="qanda-voice">demos and the question and answer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:14.700" data-start="00:21:14.700" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:16.640" data-start="00:21:16.640" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:25.680" data-start="00:21:25.680" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:28.740" data-start="00:21:28.740" data-video="qanda-voice">this conference with people from all around</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:34.660" data-start="00:21:34.660" data-video="qanda-voice">the world connected together through web</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:34.940" data-start="00:21:34.940" data-video="qanda-voice">browsers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:41.020" data-start="00:21:41.020" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:42.400" data-start="00:21:42.400" data-video="qanda-voice">if and when it's working correctly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:47.680" data-start="00:21:47.680" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:48.760" data-start="00:21:48.760" data-video="qanda-voice">times, but when it's working,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:54.740" data-start="00:21:54.740" data-video="qanda-voice">it's wonderful. Yep.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#qanda-voice" class="subtitle" data-start="00:21:59.540" data-video="qanda-voice">[00:21:59.540]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:21:59.540" title="" data-video="qanda-voice">Start of section to review</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:21:59.540" data-start="00:21:59.540" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:01.100" data-start="00:22:01.100" data-video="qanda-voice">computers run the same code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:03.460" data-start="00:22:03.460" data-video="qanda-voice">so that people, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:05.740" data-start="00:22:05.740" data-video="qanda-voice">a lot of people work on the same thing and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:08.360" data-start="00:22:08.360" data-video="qanda-voice">build upon each other's works.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:16.460" data-start="00:22:16.460" data-video="qanda-voice">For journaling I found 1 good compromise</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:18.204" data-start="00:22:18.204" data-video="qanda-voice">between editing and stream-of-thought</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:19.548" data-start="00:22:19.548" data-video="qanda-voice">journaling. 1 good compromise between editing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:20.680" data-start="00:22:20.680" data-video="qanda-voice">and stream of thought journaling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:23.940" data-start="00:22:23.940" data-video="qanda-voice">1 good compromise between editing and being</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:26.980" data-start="00:22:26.980" data-video="qanda-voice">able to do it again and just kind of helps me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:31.160" data-start="00:22:31.160" data-video="qanda-voice">do my thoughts even when I do it is when you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:33.180" data-start="00:22:33.180" data-video="qanda-voice">do org mode and you have the bullets it kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:35.280" data-start="00:22:35.280" data-video="qanda-voice">of allows you to naturally chart your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:38.800" data-start="00:22:38.800" data-video="qanda-voice">thoughts in a way that's really easy to edit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:41.880" data-start="00:22:41.880" data-video="qanda-voice">reorder I saw you kind of did that with your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:47.160" data-start="00:22:47.160" data-video="qanda-voice">mac la tech macro where you said item and it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:48.680" data-start="00:22:48.680" data-video="qanda-voice">would put you down to the next item.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:56.500" data-start="00:22:56.500" data-video="qanda-voice">Does... How much do you do stuff like that?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:00.720" data-start="00:23:00.720" data-video="qanda-voice">How much do you do stuff like that where you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:04.700" data-start="00:23:04.700" data-video="qanda-voice">use like org mode headings and then you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:07.000" data-start="00:23:07.000" data-video="qanda-voice">reorder them because like I did that with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:10.080" data-start="00:23:10.080" data-video="qanda-voice">also the K outline from HyperBolt package for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:15.140" data-start="00:23:15.140" data-video="qanda-voice">the for Emacs org mode later on after the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:21.880" data-start="00:23:21.880" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:26.800" data-start="00:23:26.800" data-video="qanda-voice">so I have a lot of snippets for Org Mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:30.720" data-start="00:23:30.720" data-video="qanda-voice">I could have Org Mode version of my insert</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:34.600" data-start="00:23:34.600" data-video="qanda-voice">start day snippet and carry things out in org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:39.920" data-start="00:23:39.920" data-video="qanda-voice">mode. So I use org mode from time to time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:43.480" data-start="00:23:43.480" data-video="qanda-voice">I often use it for the purpose of writing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:47.780" data-start="00:23:47.780" data-video="qanda-voice">readme files for projects to outline the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:48.700" data-start="00:23:48.700" data-video="qanda-voice">purpose of the project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:54.900" data-start="00:23:54.900" data-video="qanda-voice">and say for a director that contains a coding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:01.620" data-start="00:24:01.620" data-video="qanda-voice">project. And I think this would,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:07.300" data-start="00:24:07.300" data-video="qanda-voice">so the main limitation of VoiceIn is it only</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:10.600" data-start="00:24:10.600" data-video="qanda-voice">works in a web page and you have to have an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:14.180" data-start="00:24:14.180" data-video="qanda-voice">Internet connection, whereas Talon voice is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:17.220" data-start="00:24:17.220" data-video="qanda-voice">perfect for something like org mode in that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:20.200" data-start="00:24:20.200" data-video="qanda-voice">you don't need an internet connection and it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:22.940" data-start="00:24:22.940" data-video="qanda-voice">will operate anywhere that you can place a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:24.840" data-start="00:24:24.840" data-video="qanda-voice">cursor. I haven't found a place where it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:26.760" data-start="00:24:26.760" data-video="qanda-voice">doesn't work. It's amazing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:28.860" data-start="00:24:28.860" data-video="qanda-voice">So as you saw my talk,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:35.400" data-start="00:24:35.400" data-video="qanda-voice">perhaps You can run it in a terminal or a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:38.320" data-start="00:24:38.320" data-video="qanda-voice">remote computer. You can run it in a virtual</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:44.120" data-start="00:24:44.120" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:45.760" data-start="00:24:45.760" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:50.820" data-start="00:24:50.820" data-video="qanda-voice">it will work. And so as you might imagine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:52.720" data-start="00:24:52.720" data-video="qanda-voice">if you use bash aliases,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:55.920" data-start="00:24:55.920" data-video="qanda-voice">I've worked for, 1 of the first things I did</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:00.720" data-start="00:25:00.720" data-video="qanda-voice">was map Talend commands to bash aliases so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:02.800" data-start="00:25:02.800" data-video="qanda-voice">that I can do all kinds of crazy things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:04.200" data-start="00:25:04.200" data-video="qanda-voice">inside of the terminal.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:12.040" data-start="00:25:12.040" data-video="qanda-voice">And there are, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:15.260" data-start="00:25:15.260" data-video="qanda-voice">there's some support already for using Talon</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:20.280" data-start="00:25:20.280" data-video="qanda-voice">in Emacs. There's some Emacs functionality</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:21.960" data-start="00:25:21.960" data-video="qanda-voice">that's built into Talon.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:25.160" data-start="00:25:25.160" data-video="qanda-voice">So when you are in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:27.100" data-start="00:25:27.100" data-video="qanda-voice">there's some features that are automatically</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:30.520" data-start="00:25:30.520" data-video="qanda-voice">available. And then others have developed or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:32.320" data-start="00:25:32.320" data-video="qanda-voice">are developing packages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:34.920" data-start="00:25:34.920" data-video="qanda-voice">which I don't think are available yet in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:40.240" data-start="00:25:40.240" data-video="qanda-voice">ELPA. There's 1 that does the font locking or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:42.780" data-start="00:25:42.780" data-video="qanda-voice">syntax highlighting of Talon files,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:46.240" data-start="00:25:46.240" data-video="qanda-voice">and another that adds some additional</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:50.380" data-start="00:25:50.380" data-video="qanda-voice">functionality that I'm regrettably not yet</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:51.440" data-start="00:25:51.440" data-video="qanda-voice">familiar with.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:55.680" data-start="00:25:55.680" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:56.760" data-start="00:25:56.760" data-video="qanda-voice">sharding of the thoughts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:59.800" data-start="00:25:59.800" data-video="qanda-voice">like let's say, oh, how has my day went?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:01.980" data-start="00:26:01.980" data-video="qanda-voice">It's went good for reasons 123,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:04.860" data-start="00:26:04.860" data-video="qanda-voice">and bad for reasons ABC.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:07.828" data-start="00:26:07.828" data-video="qanda-voice">And then later on, I might think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:08.460" data-start="00:26:08.460" data-video="qanda-voice">oh, there's an, I also,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:10.520" data-start="00:26:10.520" data-video="qanda-voice">my day went good for reasons 456,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:14.540" data-start="00:26:14.540" data-video="qanda-voice">then you, I can, then you jump up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:18.520" data-start="00:26:18.520" data-video="qanda-voice">And so the, like I found like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:19.760" data-start="00:26:19.760" data-video="qanda-voice">yeah, the org mode subheadings,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.980" data-start="00:26:21.980" data-video="qanda-voice">because you're able to jump around,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:25.040" data-start="00:26:25.040" data-video="qanda-voice">easily reorder them after the fact,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:32.520" data-start="00:26:32.520" data-video="qanda-voice">the very streamlined approach to the stream</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:33.620" data-start="00:26:33.620" data-video="qanda-voice">of thought and the editing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:38.800" data-start="00:26:38.800" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:41.200" data-start="00:26:41.200" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:44.060" data-start="00:26:44.060" data-video="qanda-voice">just because like, even when you're editing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:45.200" data-start="00:26:45.200" data-video="qanda-voice">that in real time, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:47.320" data-start="00:26:47.320" data-video="qanda-voice">oh, wait a minute, I thought of another</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:48.960" data-start="00:26:48.960" data-video="qanda-voice">reason that my day went good,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:50.640" data-start="00:26:50.640" data-video="qanda-voice">even though I was talking about how it was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:52.760" data-start="00:26:52.760" data-video="qanda-voice">going bad now. So you jump up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:55.680" data-start="00:26:55.680" data-video="qanda-voice">And then you do that. And then you have it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:59.540" data-start="00:26:59.540" data-video="qanda-voice">You easily summarize your thoughts and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:00.060" data-start="00:27:00.060" data-video="qanda-voice">whatnot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:07.200" data-start="00:27:07.200" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:11.680" data-start="00:27:11.680" data-video="qanda-voice">ideal for that kind of interact.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:15.240" data-start="00:27:15.240" data-video="qanda-voice">So yeah, I see your point in terms of that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:18.760" data-start="00:27:18.760" data-video="qanda-voice">sort of a blend of generative writing and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:23.440" data-start="00:27:23.440" data-video="qanda-voice">editing. And it's also kind of parallel to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:27.240" data-start="00:27:27.240" data-video="qanda-voice">mind mapping. I use this mind mapping</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:32.660" data-start="00:27:32.660" data-video="qanda-voice">software called iThoughtsX where I'll</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:36.760" data-start="00:27:36.760" data-video="qanda-voice">generate all these children items,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:40.040" data-start="00:27:40.040" data-video="qanda-voice">and then I'll drag them around and resort</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:46.680" data-start="00:27:46.680" data-video="qanda-voice">them. And they can have children of their own</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:48.940" data-start="00:27:48.940" data-video="qanda-voice">and grandchildren and so on,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:50.800" data-start="00:27:50.800" data-video="qanda-voice">in terms of the levels of the nodes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:54.920" data-start="00:27:54.920" data-video="qanda-voice">And it's pretty much the same sort of thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:57.560" data-start="00:27:57.560" data-video="qanda-voice">with a nested hierarchy that you can have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:02.660" data-start="00:28:02.660" data-video="qanda-voice">with org mode. I think having several</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:09.900" data-start="00:28:09.900" data-video="qanda-voice">alternate modes or modalities of playing with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:13.100" data-start="00:28:13.100" data-video="qanda-voice">thoughts is useful. So sometimes I'll hit a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:17.180" data-start="00:28:17.180" data-video="qanda-voice">wall and we're just not really generating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:21.260" data-start="00:28:21.260" data-video="qanda-voice">anything in a text mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:25.000" data-start="00:28:25.000" data-video="qanda-voice">But if I switch to using the mind mapping,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:30.040" data-start="00:28:30.040" data-video="qanda-voice">just seeing it arranged with the connecting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:34.920" data-start="00:28:34.920" data-video="qanda-voice">lines plays on a different part of the brain,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:37.640" data-start="00:28:37.640" data-video="qanda-voice">I think, and it can be incredibly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:40.600" data-start="00:28:40.600" data-video="qanda-voice">stimulatory. It can stimulate a lot of new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:43.480" data-start="00:28:43.480" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:45.400" data-start="00:28:45.400" data-video="qanda-voice">too much with is the mind mapping software,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:45.980" data-start="00:28:45.980" data-video="qanda-voice">but...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:51.600" data-start="00:28:51.600" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:56.400" data-start="00:28:56.400" data-video="qanda-voice">have to it in Emacs is Orgrimm in the in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:00.860" data-start="00:29:00.860" data-video="qanda-voice">terms of like the 3D visualization of with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:03.720" data-start="00:29:03.720" data-video="qanda-voice">Orgrimm GUI or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:10.120" data-start="00:29:10.120" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:12.800" data-start="00:29:12.800" data-video="qanda-voice">diagrams and stuff like that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:16.980" data-start="00:29:16.980" data-video="qanda-voice">I think those 2 things would allow you stuff</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:20.240" data-start="00:29:20.240" data-video="qanda-voice">like Orgrimm or denote And then the diagrams</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:23.160" data-start="00:29:23.160" data-video="qanda-voice">would be the good ways of doing that in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:25.200" data-start="00:29:25.200" data-video="qanda-voice">Emacs, but they don't have the mind map</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:27.160" data-start="00:29:27.160" data-video="qanda-voice">programs as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:30.140" data-start="00:29:30.140" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:32.740" data-start="00:29:32.740" data-video="qanda-voice">There are a couple mind mapping packages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:37.200" data-start="00:29:37.200" data-video="qanda-voice">but they're not as advanced.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:41.920" data-start="00:29:41.920" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:43.840" data-start="00:29:43.840" data-video="qanda-voice">it that Emacs interacted with.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:46.180" data-start="00:29:46.180" data-video="qanda-voice">Very well. And so they kind of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:49.120" data-start="00:29:49.120" data-video="qanda-voice">you know, worked around and had a little.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:51.620" data-start="00:29:51.620" data-video="qanda-voice">Integration with the 2.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:53.420" data-start="00:29:53.420" data-video="qanda-voice">So when you be jumping around your.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:56.200" data-start="00:29:56.200" data-video="qanda-voice">When you'd be clicking on the web page it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:59.300" data-start="00:29:59.300" data-video="qanda-voice">would be pointing you to different places and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:07.060" data-start="00:30:07.060" data-video="qanda-voice">buffers okay like those are those the There's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:11.480" data-start="00:30:11.480" data-video="qanda-voice">an like org-roam node program where it kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:13.360" data-start="00:30:13.360" data-video="qanda-voice">of shows the looks like a mind map.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.820" data-start="00:30:17.820" data-video="qanda-voice">You can click and drag them a little bit,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:18.680" data-start="00:30:18.680" data-video="qanda-voice">so it's a little interactive.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:27.980" data-start="00:30:27.980" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:30.160" data-start="00:30:30.160" data-video="qanda-voice">I'll have to look into that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:32.240" data-start="00:30:32.240" data-video="qanda-voice">That sounds very interesting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:36.820" data-start="00:30:36.820" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:38.560" data-start="00:30:38.560" data-video="qanda-voice">though, than Org-ROM, so it doesn't.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:43.320" data-start="00:30:43.320" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:47.080" data-start="00:30:47.080" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:51.600" data-start="00:30:51.600" data-video="qanda-voice">I want to be able to, I don't like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:53.200" data-start="00:30:53.200" data-video="qanda-voice">feeling of being trapped inside org-mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:56.040" data-start="00:30:56.040" data-video="qanda-voice">documents. Like I want to be able to write,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:58.940" data-start="00:30:58.940" data-video="qanda-voice">even though I don't really use Markdown and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:00.800" data-start="00:31:00.800" data-video="qanda-voice">like org-mode better than that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:02.720" data-start="00:31:02.720" data-video="qanda-voice">Like for instance, I also use the Koutline</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:04.280" data-start="00:31:04.280" data-video="qanda-voice">from the Hyperbole package.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:08.160" data-start="00:31:08.160" data-video="qanda-voice">That's what my I got a talk on the stream of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:12.620" data-start="00:31:12.620" data-video="qanda-voice">thought journaling for with Koutline and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:14.060" data-start="00:31:14.060" data-video="qanda-voice">was like, I just don't like the feeling of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:18.480" data-start="00:31:18.480" data-video="qanda-voice">being tracked in 1 document and denote has</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:21.300" data-start="00:31:21.300" data-video="qanda-voice">the ability to it renames the file so you get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:26.020" data-start="00:31:26.020" data-video="qanda-voice">keywords in like a PDF file so you can take</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:28.100" data-start="00:31:28.100" data-video="qanda-voice">so you can link to that with your notes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:30.540" data-start="00:31:30.540" data-video="qanda-voice">without it all disappearing because it's not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:36.340" data-start="00:31:36.340" data-video="qanda-voice">an org mode document. Plus the ability of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:38.520" data-start="00:31:38.520" data-video="qanda-voice">having it run on multiple computers or with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:42.660" data-start="00:31:42.660" data-video="qanda-voice">multiple people, the database kind of gets</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:46.480" data-start="00:31:46.480" data-video="qanda-voice">screwed up when you try running it under sync</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:50.500" data-start="00:31:50.500" data-video="qanda-voice">thing. Sync. More fragile.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:56.000" data-start="00:31:56.000" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:03.260" data-start="00:32:03.260" data-video="qanda-voice">How far are you? So are you a regular</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:06.480" data-start="00:32:06.480" data-video="qanda-voice">practitioner of the Zettelkasten approach?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:12.180" data-start="00:32:12.180" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:16.780" data-start="00:32:16.780" data-video="qanda-voice">I partly work too much like testing out the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:20.760" data-start="00:32:20.760" data-video="qanda-voice">org-roam versus the notes to use it too much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:23.300" data-start="00:32:23.300" data-video="qanda-voice">So part of it is I just tweak with it too</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:24.800" data-start="00:32:24.800" data-video="qanda-voice">much before using it and then.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:28.740" data-start="00:32:28.740" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:32.580" data-start="00:32:32.580" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:33.640" data-start="00:32:33.640" data-video="qanda-voice">I know where they are.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:35.760" data-start="00:32:35.760" data-video="qanda-voice">So whenever I do need them,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:37.680" data-start="00:32:37.680" data-video="qanda-voice">I can use them, even though I don't always</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:38.440" data-start="00:32:38.440" data-video="qanda-voice">use them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:43.680" data-start="00:32:43.680" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:47.720" data-start="00:32:47.720" data-video="qanda-voice">room. Zettelkasten. I've actually,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:50.140" data-start="00:32:50.140" data-video="qanda-voice">it's kind of cool that you can export it and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:51.460" data-start="00:32:51.460" data-video="qanda-voice">move it into other programs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:56.320" data-start="00:32:56.320" data-video="qanda-voice">I have moved it to Obsidian and played with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:57.720" data-start="00:32:57.720" data-video="qanda-voice">it in Obsidian for a while,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:59.820" data-start="00:32:59.820" data-video="qanda-voice">maybe added to it in Obsidian,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:01.480" data-start="00:33:01.480" data-video="qanda-voice">moved it back to Orgrim.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:07.080" data-start="00:33:07.080" data-video="qanda-voice">But I'm not convinced.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:10.680" data-start="00:33:10.680" data-video="qanda-voice">I mean, that I think that Nicholas Luhmann</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:13.360" data-start="00:33:13.360" data-video="qanda-voice">was very successful with it because he spent</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:15.920" data-start="00:33:15.920" data-video="qanda-voice">5 hours a day or whatever working with it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:18.560" data-start="00:33:18.560" data-video="qanda-voice">And I think I would have to do,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:21.180" data-start="00:33:21.180" data-video="qanda-voice">put in a similar amount of effort to get this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:23.600" data-start="00:33:23.600" data-video="qanda-voice">kind of benefits that he gained from it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:26.480" data-start="00:33:26.480" data-video="qanda-voice">I'm waiting for somebody to do a scientific</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:29.200" data-start="00:33:29.200" data-video="qanda-voice">study, controlled trials to see,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:31.720" data-start="00:33:31.720" data-video="qanda-voice">to prove whether there's a real benefit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:37.900" data-start="00:33:37.900" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:41.120" data-start="00:33:41.120" data-video="qanda-voice">one of the things where you have the 1 for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:42.180" data-start="00:33:42.180" data-video="qanda-voice">sections, and then the 1.1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:47.160" data-start="00:33:47.160" data-video="qanda-voice">or you know how the notes that it does that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:48.740" data-start="00:33:48.740" data-video="qanda-voice">different. The denote,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:52.880" data-start="00:33:52.880" data-video="qanda-voice">it has the ability to use a hierarchy manage,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:55.480" data-start="00:33:55.480" data-video="qanda-voice">which Org-ROM does everything it can to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:57.380" data-start="00:33:57.380" data-video="qanda-voice">eliminate. But you can use them both in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:59.140" data-start="00:33:59.140" data-video="qanda-voice">tandem. They call it signatures.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:04.820" data-start="00:34:04.820" data-video="qanda-voice">And to me, 1 of the cool features of denote</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:06.820" data-start="00:34:06.820" data-video="qanda-voice">would be being able to use like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:09.780" data-start="00:34:09.780" data-video="qanda-voice">signatures for the things that make sense.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:13.440" data-start="00:34:13.440" data-video="qanda-voice">Like 1 of the ideas is if you don't exactly</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:14.960" data-start="00:34:14.960" data-video="qanda-voice">know where this is, but you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:15.920" data-start="00:34:15.920" data-video="qanda-voice">it goes to the section,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:17.060" data-start="00:34:17.060" data-video="qanda-voice">you can just use the signature.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:19.760" data-start="00:34:19.760" data-video="qanda-voice">Maybe don't even have too much of a file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:22.679" data-start="00:34:22.679" data-video="qanda-voice">name. Like oh, this is just another thought</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:28.199" data-start="00:34:28.199" data-video="qanda-voice">on, well you wouldn't use it for this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:30.360" data-start="00:34:30.360" data-video="qanda-voice">but like my day went good for reasons 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:33.040" data-start="00:34:33.040" data-video="qanda-voice">2, 3, 4, 5, and you could just use the denote</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:34.639" data-start="00:34:34.639" data-video="qanda-voice">signature to do 1, 2, 3,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:37.659" data-start="00:34:37.659" data-video="qanda-voice">4, 5, just as you have new ideas on like a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:41.840" data-start="00:34:41.840" data-video="qanda-voice">subject, or like cars are cars are not this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:43.659" data-start="00:34:43.659" data-video="qanda-voice">car is nice because of reasons XYZ,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:46.920" data-start="00:34:46.920" data-video="qanda-voice">or these types of four-wheelers are nice</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:48.940" data-start="00:34:48.940" data-video="qanda-voice">because of XYZ. And you could just keep on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:50.760" data-start="00:34:50.760" data-video="qanda-voice">doing that rather than having to get a new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:52.120" data-start="00:34:52.120" data-video="qanda-voice">name for each 1 of those files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:55.280" data-start="00:34:55.280" data-video="qanda-voice">Or you could choose not to have it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:57.780" data-start="00:34:57.780" data-video="qanda-voice">but the ability to have it optionally in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:01.020" data-start="00:35:01.020" data-video="qanda-voice">to me, sounds like a really nice combo.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:03.000" data-start="00:35:03.000" data-video="qanda-voice">Because then you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:06.140" data-start="00:35:06.140" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:08.800" data-start="00:35:08.800" data-video="qanda-voice">I've actually imposed a hierarchy in my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:10.320" data-start="00:35:10.320" data-video="qanda-voice">Zettelkasten and Orgrim.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:17.680" data-start="00:35:17.680" data-video="qanda-voice">I just, I can't imagine having random ideas.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:21.200" data-start="00:35:21.200" data-video="qanda-voice">They need some kind of structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:27.500" data-start="00:35:27.500" data-video="qanda-voice">Always have some kind of parent node to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:28.420" data-start="00:35:28.420" data-video="qanda-voice">attach them to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:32.740" data-start="00:35:32.740" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:34.440" data-start="00:35:34.440" data-video="qanda-voice">it, part of it is I'm just trying to optimize</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:36.820" data-start="00:35:36.820" data-video="qanda-voice">the workflow before it feels really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:38.480" data-start="00:35:38.480" data-video="qanda-voice">really, really good, and I don't want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:39.720" data-start="00:35:39.720" data-video="qanda-voice">tweak with it, or I don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:42.480" data-start="00:35:42.480" data-video="qanda-voice">Or maybe I don't always need the tool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:45.780" data-start="00:35:45.780" data-video="qanda-voice">but some of the distinctions it seems like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:52.400" data-start="00:35:52.400" data-video="qanda-voice">that I want is, I want a daily journal For</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:53.100" data-start="00:35:53.100" data-video="qanda-voice">your stream of thoughts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:56.000" data-start="00:35:56.000" data-video="qanda-voice">then I want a separate 1 for your to do list</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:57.980" data-start="00:35:57.980" data-video="qanda-voice">because what you like.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:01.240" data-start="00:36:01.240" data-video="qanda-voice">You want very different properties for each</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:03.040" data-start="00:36:03.040" data-video="qanda-voice">of those. Like for to-do lists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:04.820" data-start="00:36:04.820" data-video="qanda-voice">you want hierarchical,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:11.260" data-start="00:36:11.260" data-video="qanda-voice">limited. But if you have more than 3 priority</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:13.660" data-start="00:36:13.660" data-video="qanda-voice">items, you don't have a priority item and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:14.820" data-start="00:36:14.820" data-video="qanda-voice">it's not a good to-do list.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:18.480" data-start="00:36:18.480" data-video="qanda-voice">It's just unordered thoughts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:23.480" data-start="00:36:23.480" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:26.000" data-start="00:36:26.000" data-video="qanda-voice">most of those things done beyond the first 3.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:28.180" data-start="00:36:28.180" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:30.600" data-start="00:36:30.600" data-video="qanda-voice">trying to do the other stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:31.980" data-start="00:36:31.980" data-video="qanda-voice">the stream of thoughts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:34.640" data-start="00:36:34.640" data-video="qanda-voice">all that stuff I probably don't want to go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:36.720" data-start="00:36:36.720" data-video="qanda-voice">straight into like my Zettelkasten because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:37.440" data-start="00:36:37.440" data-video="qanda-voice">some of those problems,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:42.660" data-start="00:36:42.660" data-video="qanda-voice">like it's noisy, it might be redundant,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:45.300" data-start="00:36:45.300" data-video="qanda-voice">you don't know how it fits into it because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:46.920" data-start="00:36:46.920" data-video="qanda-voice">you haven't done that processing on it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:47.960" data-start="00:36:47.960" data-video="qanda-voice">This hasn't been refined.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:53.000" data-start="00:36:53.000" data-video="qanda-voice">So, like, you don't want to refine it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:54.960" data-start="00:36:54.960" data-video="qanda-voice">Like, I find that spell checking is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:56.680" data-start="00:36:56.680" data-video="qanda-voice">detrimental to me. I don't want spell</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:58.520" data-start="00:36:58.520" data-video="qanda-voice">checking. I don't want spell checking.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:00.200" data-start="00:37:00.200" data-video="qanda-voice">I don't want syntax highlighting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:04.040" data-start="00:37:04.040" data-video="qanda-voice">I just want to talk or to just write.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:07.020" data-start="00:37:07.020" data-video="qanda-voice">If I have mistakes, I can turn on that later,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:08.800" data-start="00:37:08.800" data-video="qanda-voice">do it. Because otherwise,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:13.340" data-start="00:37:13.340" data-video="qanda-voice">it will distract me and makes that process</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:20.140" data-start="00:37:20.140" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:20.280" data-start="00:37:20.280" data-video="qanda-voice">flow.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:24.840" data-start="00:37:24.840" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:28.080" data-start="00:37:28.080" data-video="qanda-voice">you're doing the getting things done like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:30.040" data-start="00:37:30.040" data-video="qanda-voice">that's why I want them would be want would</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:32.360" data-start="00:37:32.360" data-video="qanda-voice">want them in separate files is that you want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:34.160" data-start="00:37:34.160" data-video="qanda-voice">them like ordered, numbered lists,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:38.980" data-start="00:37:38.980" data-video="qanda-voice">smaller. And then with the other,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:40.440" data-start="00:37:40.440" data-video="qanda-voice">with the stream of thought,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:42.340" data-start="00:37:42.340" data-video="qanda-voice">with journaling, you'd want it just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:45.240" data-start="00:37:45.240" data-video="qanda-voice">unordered. Thoughts land wherever they may.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:49.140" data-start="00:37:49.140" data-video="qanda-voice">Maybe not even like machine-generated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:51.400" data-start="00:37:51.400" data-video="qanda-voice">timestamps, So you don't even have to worry</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:52.440" data-start="00:37:52.440" data-video="qanda-voice">about the names of it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:55.080" data-start="00:37:55.080" data-video="qanda-voice">as an example. So yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:56.960" data-start="00:37:56.960" data-video="qanda-voice">very different properties for what you want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:58.260" data-start="00:37:58.260" data-video="qanda-voice">for both of those modalities.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:06.340" data-start="00:38:06.340" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:07.860" data-start="00:38:07.860" data-video="qanda-voice">had that at, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:10.440" data-start="00:38:10.440" data-video="qanda-voice">working on my to-do list at the start of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:13.080" data-start="00:38:13.080" data-video="qanda-voice">day, but in a certain sense that is not ideal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:20.320" data-start="00:38:20.320" data-video="qanda-voice">time. I really haven't optimized the timing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:22.640" data-start="00:38:22.640" data-video="qanda-voice">of assembly of the to-do list,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:24.020" data-start="00:38:24.020" data-video="qanda-voice">I think, in retrospect.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:27.540" data-start="00:38:27.540" data-video="qanda-voice">It's just by lifelong habit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:29.060" data-start="00:38:29.060" data-video="qanda-voice">I do that at the beginning of the day,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:32.860" data-start="00:38:32.860" data-video="qanda-voice">but probably would be better to do it at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:34.360" data-start="00:38:34.360" data-video="qanda-voice">night or the night before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:38.000" data-start="00:38:38.000" data-video="qanda-voice">And so you sort of prime your brain to go,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:41.180" data-start="00:38:41.180" data-video="qanda-voice">just get up and go, go after those items.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:46.360" data-start="00:38:46.360" data-video="qanda-voice">You were, you maybe you want to revise the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:49.120" data-start="00:38:49.120" data-video="qanda-voice">items a little bit after sleeping on it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:52.360" data-start="00:38:52.360" data-video="qanda-voice">but after your subconscious has worked on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:57.500" data-start="00:38:57.500" data-video="qanda-voice">those items. Do you have a daily routine that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:59.680" data-start="00:38:59.680" data-video="qanda-voice">you follow in terms of generating those kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:00.020" data-start="00:39:00.020" data-video="qanda-voice">of lists?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:05.660" data-start="00:39:05.660" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:08.040" data-start="00:39:08.040" data-video="qanda-voice">for this stuff when I want to do it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:10.520" data-start="00:39:10.520" data-video="qanda-voice">I enjoy building the scaffolding and I know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:12.340" data-start="00:39:12.340" data-video="qanda-voice">where the tools are when I need it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:14.540" data-start="00:39:14.540" data-video="qanda-voice">And I start using them when I need it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:17.040" data-start="00:39:17.040" data-video="qanda-voice">but I don't have it too consistent.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:29.720" data-start="00:39:29.720" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:35.300" data-start="00:39:35.300" data-video="qanda-voice">org-roam, and you're using k-outline.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:39.520" data-start="00:39:39.520" data-video="qanda-voice">And are there other tools that you've</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:39.840" data-start="00:39:39.840" data-video="qanda-voice">explored?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:44.380" data-start="00:39:44.380" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:50.720" data-start="00:39:50.720" data-video="qanda-voice">and nerd dictation to do What your talk was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:53.560" data-start="00:39:53.560" data-video="qanda-voice">about? Speaking speech to text to see how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:56.720" data-start="00:39:56.720" data-video="qanda-voice">that changes Because it does change what you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:01.020" data-start="00:40:01.020" data-video="qanda-voice">think What you write down when you speak it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:05.080" data-start="00:40:05.080" data-video="qanda-voice">rather than write it. Same thing as when</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:07.420" data-start="00:40:07.420" data-video="qanda-voice">you're thinking about when you eliminate the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:08.940" data-start="00:40:08.940" data-video="qanda-voice">editing, it changes the way you write.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:11.900" data-start="00:40:11.900" data-video="qanda-voice">When you have the spell checking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:14.100" data-start="00:40:14.100" data-video="qanda-voice">it changes the way you write to a much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:20.280" data-start="00:40:20.280" data-video="qanda-voice">smaller degree. But that's the stuff I really</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:23.560" data-start="00:40:23.560" data-video="qanda-voice">haven't gotten working as well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:25.120" data-start="00:40:25.120" data-video="qanda-voice">or underdeveloped.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:30.160" data-start="00:40:30.160" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:37.740" data-start="00:40:37.740" data-video="qanda-voice">I'll move it in. Often I move it into on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:40.920" data-start="00:40:40.920" data-video="qanda-voice">Overleaf, this website for a lot of tech</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:44.080" data-start="00:40:44.080" data-video="qanda-voice">documents. I have a plug-in for Rightful,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:50.520" data-start="00:40:50.520" data-video="qanda-voice">And I use that to clean up my word choices</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:56.160" data-start="00:40:56.160" data-video="qanda-voice">and some grammar. And I use Grammarly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:00.920" data-start="00:41:00.920" data-video="qanda-voice">I'll copy and paste. It just depends on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:01.680" data-start="00:41:01.680" data-video="qanda-voice">nature of the writing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:05.720" data-start="00:41:05.720" data-video="qanda-voice">how serious it is, how polished it has to be.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:12.620" data-start="00:41:12.620" data-video="qanda-voice">If I, if it's really vital,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:14.440" data-start="00:41:14.440" data-video="qanda-voice">like for a grant application or something,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:16.880" data-start="00:41:16.880" data-video="qanda-voice">I'll paste that into Grammarly and work on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:22.160" data-start="00:41:22.160" data-video="qanda-voice">trying to get the writing level to the lowest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:26.100" data-start="00:41:26.100" data-video="qanda-voice">possible grade level to make it as clear as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:30.040" data-start="00:41:30.040" data-video="qanda-voice">possible to as wide of an audience as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:34.740" data-start="00:41:34.740" data-video="qanda-voice">possible. 1 of the things I kind</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:38.000" data-start="00:41:38.000" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:40.440" data-start="00:41:40.440" data-video="qanda-voice">is I kind of wish you could say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:48.620" data-start="00:41:48.620" data-video="qanda-voice">hey, what would the subtle cast in person</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:52.120" data-start="00:41:52.120" data-video="qanda-voice">think of what I wrote who what would einstein</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:54.200" data-start="00:41:54.200" data-video="qanda-voice">think of what I wrote because rather than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:57.340" data-start="00:41:57.340" data-video="qanda-voice">just trying to make 1 uniform way of talking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:59.960" data-start="00:41:59.960" data-video="qanda-voice">it's like people talk differently and that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:04.080" data-start="00:42:04.080" data-video="qanda-voice">an advantage and I can't I really wish like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:07.440" data-start="00:42:07.440" data-video="qanda-voice">you maybe these GPT programs could do well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:10.840" data-start="00:42:10.840" data-video="qanda-voice">I really wish it could help you with the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:16.160" data-start="00:42:16.160" data-video="qanda-voice">grammar, that maybe give you thoughts on what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:18.460" data-start="00:42:18.460" data-video="qanda-voice">your notes are. What does this person think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:20.220" data-start="00:42:20.220" data-video="qanda-voice">of your thoughts? What does this person think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:20.457" data-start="00:42:20.457" data-video="qanda-voice">of your thoughts? Well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:20.640" data-start="00:42:20.640" data-video="qanda-voice">does this person think of your thoughts?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:22.280" data-start="00:42:22.280" data-video="qanda-voice">Well, does this person think of your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:22.540" data-start="00:42:22.540" data-video="qanda-voice">thoughts?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:27.720" data-start="00:42:27.720" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:31.560" data-start="00:42:31.560" data-video="qanda-voice">even through chat GDP now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:35.140" data-start="00:42:35.140" data-video="qanda-voice">I haven't spent time trying that out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:39.820" data-start="00:42:39.820" data-video="qanda-voice">But I bet that capabilities are already.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:44.340" data-start="00:42:44.340" data-video="qanda-voice">It would be nice if it was like built in to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:46.240" data-start="00:42:46.240" data-video="qanda-voice">Emacs, right? It's a package.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:49.020" data-start="00:42:49.020" data-video="qanda-voice">Yeah. That'd be very cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:52.260" data-start="00:42:52.260" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:55.040" data-start="00:42:55.040" data-video="qanda-voice">like, the grammar where they help you the way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:57.660" data-start="00:42:57.660" data-video="qanda-voice">you write. Like, for instance,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:59.080" data-start="00:42:59.080" data-video="qanda-voice">removing redundant words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:02.720" data-start="00:43:02.720" data-video="qanda-voice">And Yeah, it's supposed to be like beyond</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:04.820" data-start="00:43:04.820" data-video="qanda-voice">just spell checking, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:08.240" data-start="00:43:08.240" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:13.300" data-start="00:43:13.300" data-video="qanda-voice">package for Emacs, and you get some of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:14.540" data-start="00:43:14.540" data-video="qanda-voice">functionality out of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:17.420" data-start="00:43:17.420" data-video="qanda-voice">I've paid for the subscription to get the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:21.240" data-start="00:43:21.240" data-video="qanda-voice">advanced features, but I've maybe I don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:23.300" data-start="00:43:23.300" data-video="qanda-voice">have my configuration set up correctly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:27.280" data-start="00:43:27.280" data-video="qanda-voice">I just found it was easier to copy and paste</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:31.780" data-start="00:43:31.780" data-video="qanda-voice">a paragraph at a time into the desktop</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:36.460" data-start="00:43:36.460" data-video="qanda-voice">application and it will go through and find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:38.900" data-start="00:43:38.900" data-video="qanda-voice">those redundancies, junk English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:48.080" data-start="00:43:48.080" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:52.640" data-start="00:43:52.640" data-video="qanda-voice">1 of these That was my problem with a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:55.840" data-start="00:43:55.840" data-video="qanda-voice">the grammarly type Programs is I'm I want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:57.620" data-start="00:43:57.620" data-video="qanda-voice">something that would do that like be real</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:59.720" data-start="00:43:59.720" data-video="qanda-voice">interesting seeing 1 that's like an old</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:03.840" data-start="00:44:03.840" data-video="qanda-voice">English type thing or like Lumen person where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:06.540" data-start="00:44:06.540" data-video="qanda-voice">it's just like how does this person write and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:09.960" data-start="00:44:09.960" data-video="qanda-voice">Because it would be it would spit out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:11.160" data-start="00:44:11.160" data-video="qanda-voice">something a lot different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:13.440" data-start="00:44:13.440" data-video="qanda-voice">Just different. Like, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:14.440" data-start="00:44:14.440" data-video="qanda-voice">you put different people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:17.760" data-start="00:44:17.760" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:20.280" data-start="00:44:20.280" data-video="qanda-voice">completely different thinking and writing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:28.740" data-start="00:44:28.740" data-video="qanda-voice">style. And so the purpose of doing that would</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:34.300" data-start="00:44:34.300" data-video="qanda-voice">be to stimulate A new way of thinking or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:36.340" data-start="00:44:36.340" data-video="qanda-voice">writing I guess on your part</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:40.600" data-start="00:44:40.600" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:43.540" data-start="00:44:43.540" data-video="qanda-voice">and writing you know 1 of the targets for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:47.020" data-start="00:44:47.020" data-video="qanda-voice">that could be yourself so it's like I'd much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:50.380" data-start="00:44:50.380" data-video="qanda-voice">rather have a comprehensible sentence than a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:57.500" data-start="00:44:57.500" data-video="qanda-voice">truly correct 1. 1 of those is far more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:00.780" data-start="00:45:00.780" data-video="qanda-voice">valuable and far more correct English or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:06.560" data-start="00:45:06.560" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:08.860" data-start="00:45:08.860" data-video="qanda-voice">to yourself. Yes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:11.320" data-start="00:45:11.320" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:15.300" data-start="00:45:15.300" data-video="qanda-voice">one's the other you're trying to be used by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:19.080" data-start="00:45:19.080" data-video="qanda-voice">the tool. And they're not the same thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:29.780" data-start="00:45:29.780" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:35.140" data-start="00:45:35.140" data-video="qanda-voice">responsible for my writing and being the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:40.200" data-start="00:45:40.200" data-video="qanda-voice">final judge of it and as a scientist I have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:49.060" data-start="00:45:49.060" data-video="qanda-voice">to my mantra is it's got to be clear and then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:52.600" data-start="00:45:52.600" data-video="qanda-voice">precise and then concise in that order.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:56.580" data-start="00:45:56.580" data-video="qanda-voice">And I claim that, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:58.440" data-start="00:45:58.440" data-video="qanda-voice">that's the order with which I go through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:01.500" data-start="00:46:01.500" data-video="qanda-voice">doing revisions. Clarity is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:02.500" data-start="00:46:02.500" data-video="qanda-voice">you know, if it's not clear,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:05.420" data-start="00:46:05.420" data-video="qanda-voice">it's useless. It's got to be clear to me,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:08.240" data-start="00:46:08.240" data-video="qanda-voice">but it's got to be clear to a lot of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:10.920" data-start="00:46:10.920" data-video="qanda-voice">for whom English is not a first language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:15.520" data-start="00:46:15.520" data-video="qanda-voice">And then after that, I got to worry about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:19.020" data-start="00:46:19.020" data-video="qanda-voice">precision and then conciseness,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:24.140" data-start="00:46:24.140" data-video="qanda-voice">but those can't be done at the expense of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:27.720" data-start="00:46:27.720" data-video="qanda-voice">clarity. So it's quite a battle.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:32.320" data-start="00:46:32.320" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:35.440" data-start="00:46:35.440" data-video="qanda-voice">where it's like if you have more than 3 items</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:39.480" data-start="00:46:39.480" data-video="qanda-voice">like here the purpose of doing that is to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:43.080" data-start="00:46:43.080" data-video="qanda-voice">help or grant of a to-do list is help is to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:45.480" data-start="00:46:45.480" data-video="qanda-voice">Have you help choose what you're going to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:47.680" data-start="00:46:47.680" data-video="qanda-voice">for the day. Which is why if you have more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:50.660" data-start="00:46:50.660" data-video="qanda-voice">than 3 items, if you have 50 items on there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:52.860" data-start="00:46:52.860" data-video="qanda-voice">you're not going to get 50 of those items</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:55.920" data-start="00:46:55.920" data-video="qanda-voice">done. So maybe you pick the easiest ones to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:58.620" data-start="00:46:58.620" data-video="qanda-voice">do, not necessarily the ones that you want or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:03.340" data-start="00:47:03.340" data-video="qanda-voice">need to be done. So it's like the process of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:06.200" data-start="00:47:06.200" data-video="qanda-voice">choosing those, like, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:07.640" data-start="00:47:07.640" data-video="qanda-voice">like I found that a very good rules,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:10.800" data-start="00:47:10.800" data-video="qanda-voice">like up to 3 priority items if you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:13.260" data-start="00:47:13.260" data-video="qanda-voice">and then also when you look back and you see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:14.440" data-start="00:47:14.440" data-video="qanda-voice">that you did those 3 items,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:18.460" data-start="00:47:18.460" data-video="qanda-voice">Who cares about this? I'd rather get those 3</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:20.080" data-start="00:47:20.080" data-video="qanda-voice">items done than any number of secondary</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:20.640" data-start="00:47:20.640" data-video="qanda-voice">tasks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:26.320" data-start="00:47:26.320" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:28.440" data-start="00:47:28.440" data-video="qanda-voice">very right about that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:32.380" data-start="00:47:32.380" data-video="qanda-voice">I don't, I used to, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:36.400" data-start="00:47:36.400" data-video="qanda-voice">use a pattern of assigning letters.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:39.440" data-start="00:47:39.440" data-video="qanda-voice">And so you have like, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:41.280" data-start="00:47:41.280" data-video="qanda-voice">based on like a hierarchy of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:43.340" data-start="00:47:43.340" data-video="qanda-voice">you've got the urgent and important,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:47.300" data-start="00:47:47.300" data-video="qanda-voice">of course, that you got to deal with those.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:50.280" data-start="00:47:50.280" data-video="qanda-voice">And then the next thing down is the important</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:00.060" data-start="00:48:00.060" data-video="qanda-voice">and so on. But I tend to just generate these</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:03.600" data-start="00:48:03.600" data-video="qanda-voice">terribly long lists that most of those items</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:06.260" data-start="00:48:06.260" data-video="qanda-voice">would go on what is known as a grass catchers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:09.180" data-start="00:48:09.180" data-video="qanda-voice">list of things that you may get to someday,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:11.780" data-start="00:48:11.780" data-video="qanda-voice">but there's no way you can get to them today.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:16.120" data-start="00:48:16.120" data-video="qanda-voice">But I feel compelled, I need to capture them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:18.260" data-start="00:48:18.260" data-video="qanda-voice">I may want to do them eventually.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:20.920" data-start="00:48:20.920" data-video="qanda-voice">They wind up on my list.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:24.660" data-start="00:48:24.660" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:26.480" data-start="00:48:26.480" data-video="qanda-voice">Zettelkasten where you have the day thoughts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:29.380" data-start="00:48:29.380" data-video="qanda-voice">and the day journal, then you have your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:31.800" data-start="00:48:31.800" data-video="qanda-voice">Zettelkasten which I don't think should have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:34.740" data-start="00:48:34.740" data-video="qanda-voice">too close of a connection because one's a lot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:37.940" data-start="00:48:37.940" data-video="qanda-voice">more, what's the word?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:40.080" data-start="00:48:40.080" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:43.940" data-start="00:48:43.940" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:45.280" data-start="00:48:45.280" data-video="qanda-voice">Yeah, that's the word.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:47.040" data-start="00:48:47.040" data-video="qanda-voice">Yeah, one's actually much more processed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:50.220" data-start="00:48:50.220" data-video="qanda-voice">The other is you don't want that process</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:52.840" data-start="00:48:52.840" data-video="qanda-voice">because you want it to flow from your head</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:54.480" data-start="00:48:54.480" data-video="qanda-voice">with as little friction as possible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:59.440" data-start="00:48:59.440" data-video="qanda-voice">The other 1 you want to be processed so that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:01.800" data-start="00:49:01.800" data-video="qanda-voice">when you look it up and stuff like that's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:04.840" data-start="00:49:04.840" data-video="qanda-voice">more efficient Same thing with your to-do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:06.380" data-start="00:49:06.380" data-video="qanda-voice">things. So like oh, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:09.440" data-start="00:49:09.440" data-video="qanda-voice">I guess there's 1 more Category like I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:11.780" data-start="00:49:11.780" data-video="qanda-voice">thought I found my 3 favorite way rather than</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:15.720" data-start="00:49:15.720" data-video="qanda-voice">like priority 123 is primary tasks which</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:17.960" data-start="00:49:17.960" data-video="qanda-voice">basically generally goes up to 3,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:20.380" data-start="00:49:20.380" data-video="qanda-voice">secondary tasks, and then I like to have a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:22.540" data-start="00:49:22.540" data-video="qanda-voice">third category, unplanned tasks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:25.840" data-start="00:49:25.840" data-video="qanda-voice">and I just have those wrote down in a heading</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:28.520" data-start="00:49:28.520" data-video="qanda-voice">in an org mode file, and then I put the tasks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:32.160" data-start="00:49:32.160" data-video="qanda-voice">in there, rather than using the agenda,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:33.800" data-start="00:49:33.800" data-video="qanda-voice">like too much, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:40.240" data-start="00:49:40.240" data-video="qanda-voice">just I found that that was my favorite way of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:43.480" data-start="00:49:43.480" data-video="qanda-voice">doing it and then you have like another file</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:47.840" data-start="00:49:47.840" data-video="qanda-voice">that would just be your dump of anything you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:51.440" data-start="00:49:51.440" data-video="qanda-voice">want to do and that would be like that you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:57.040" data-start="00:49:57.040" data-video="qanda-voice">could pull from to get your day or I guess</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:59.240" data-start="00:49:59.240" data-video="qanda-voice">something that's actually better than a day</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:01.560" data-start="00:50:01.560" data-video="qanda-voice">is doing it all by a week at a time I found</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:03.160" data-start="00:50:03.160" data-video="qanda-voice">that that's actually a lot nicer because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:06.600" data-start="00:50:06.600" data-video="qanda-voice">thinking about what you do in a week seems</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:09.480" data-start="00:50:09.480" data-video="qanda-voice">like a nicer unit, where you have a week,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:10.520" data-start="00:50:10.520" data-video="qanda-voice">then you have your day,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:13.360" data-start="00:50:13.360" data-video="qanda-voice">and then you have the 3 categories of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:16.500" data-start="00:50:16.500" data-video="qanda-voice">priority, secondary, and unplanned.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:20.860" data-start="00:50:20.860" data-video="qanda-voice">At least that's been my favorite iteration on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:30.840" data-start="00:50:30.840" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:31.500" data-start="00:50:31.500" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:33.820" data-start="00:50:33.820" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:37.280" data-start="00:50:37.280" data-video="qanda-voice">planning on a weekly basis and he would just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:41.580" data-start="00:50:41.580" data-video="qanda-voice">get his weekly list of things to get done and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:43.640" data-start="00:50:43.640" data-video="qanda-voice">he was very good at pounding through that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:45.380" data-start="00:50:45.380" data-video="qanda-voice">list and getting them done.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:49.400" data-start="00:50:49.400" data-video="qanda-voice">I have been too much of a day-oriented person</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:54.020" data-start="00:50:54.020" data-video="qanda-voice">and a week-oriented person to adapt his</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:56.760" data-start="00:50:56.760" data-video="qanda-voice">approach, but I've been considering that too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:03.080" data-start="00:51:03.080" data-video="qanda-voice">I think what I don't do enough of is pulling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:05.640" data-start="00:51:05.640" data-video="qanda-voice">back to the month level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:08.100" data-start="00:51:08.100" data-video="qanda-voice">semester level, year level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:10.900" data-start="00:51:10.900" data-video="qanda-voice">5 year level, 10 year level.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:11.880" data-start="00:51:11.880" data-video="qanda-voice">And...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:16.000" data-start="00:51:16.000" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:17.960" data-start="00:51:17.960" data-video="qanda-voice">is like you can have like so you'd have your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:20.060" data-start="00:51:20.060" data-video="qanda-voice">week and then maybe you have like 1 section</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:24.440" data-start="00:51:24.440" data-video="qanda-voice">after Friday or last day of the week and this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:27.660" data-start="00:51:27.660" data-video="qanda-voice">is like your this is just your like staging</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:30.300" data-start="00:51:30.300" data-video="qanda-voice">so this is where you stage all the tasks and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:32.560" data-start="00:51:32.560" data-video="qanda-voice">then what like you can just stay in your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:37.020" data-start="00:51:37.020" data-video="qanda-voice">staging write them all down and then use alt</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:39.860" data-start="00:51:39.860" data-video="qanda-voice">and your arrow keys to quickly reorder all of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:43.340" data-start="00:51:43.340" data-video="qanda-voice">them in the week and then when you're looking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:45.800" data-start="00:51:45.800" data-video="qanda-voice">at 1 day and you're just looking at ordering</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:48.820" data-start="00:51:48.820" data-video="qanda-voice">everything well it makes a lot of sense when</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:51.720" data-start="00:51:51.720" data-video="qanda-voice">you just say, I don't really want to do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:53.160" data-start="00:51:53.160" data-video="qanda-voice">Like I want this done this week.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:56.260" data-start="00:51:56.260" data-video="qanda-voice">I don't necessarily want it done on this day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:58.520" data-start="00:51:58.520" data-video="qanda-voice">So it just, that's why I found that the week</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:00.280" data-start="00:52:00.280" data-video="qanda-voice">approach works a lot nicer even.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:09.920" data-start="00:52:09.920" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:11.880" data-start="00:52:11.880" data-video="qanda-voice">in your week to do the staging.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:14.620" data-start="00:52:14.620" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:16.840" data-start="00:52:16.840" data-video="qanda-voice">like, these are the things I would like to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:19.440" data-start="00:52:19.440" data-video="qanda-voice">get done. And then when you schedule it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:23.360" data-start="00:52:23.360" data-video="qanda-voice">then you kind of schedule it by just using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:26.240" data-start="00:52:26.240" data-video="qanda-voice">the Alt-Left key, the Alt-Arrow keys to just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:28.380" data-start="00:52:28.380" data-video="qanda-voice">oh, I want this done. It looks like this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:29.860" data-start="00:52:29.860" data-video="qanda-voice">would work really good on this day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:31.620" data-start="00:52:31.620" data-video="qanda-voice">This 1 looks like it would work on this day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:38.800" data-start="00:52:38.800" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:45.140" data-start="00:52:45.140" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:49.120" data-start="00:52:49.120" data-video="qanda-voice">I found that it works at least better without</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:52.120" data-start="00:52:52.120" data-video="qanda-voice">it. Yeah, that's fine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:54.020" data-start="00:52:54.020" data-video="qanda-voice">Because that way I also get a log of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:00.020" data-start="00:53:00.020" data-video="qanda-voice">everything I've done, which I can't find a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:03.240" data-start="00:53:03.240" data-video="qanda-voice">way that, it seems easier to just make new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:06.380" data-start="00:53:06.380" data-video="qanda-voice">files for it. And rather than,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:08.160" data-start="00:53:08.160" data-video="qanda-voice">like you could use it with Org Agenda,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:11.540" data-start="00:53:11.540" data-video="qanda-voice">but like 1 of the things that you want is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:14.040" data-start="00:53:14.040" data-video="qanda-voice">with it is to look back at it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:18.380" data-start="00:53:18.380" data-video="qanda-voice">reflect. And so like if you have the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:23.360" data-start="00:53:23.360" data-video="qanda-voice">if you have, if you open up the file with 2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:25.580" data-start="00:53:25.580" data-video="qanda-voice">levels or 3 levels of headings to where you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:26.780" data-start="00:53:26.780" data-video="qanda-voice">just see the priority task,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:29.800" data-start="00:53:29.800" data-video="qanda-voice">you can get a very nice overview of saying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:33.860" data-start="00:53:33.860" data-video="qanda-voice">I did my priority task this day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:38.760" data-start="00:53:38.760" data-video="qanda-voice">So you get the numbers next to the things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:40.200" data-start="00:53:40.200" data-video="qanda-voice">And so you can easily just say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:41.820" data-start="00:53:41.820" data-video="qanda-voice">I've done this. I mean,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:43.360" data-start="00:53:43.360" data-video="qanda-voice">it would be nice if I could figure out a way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:45.240" data-start="00:53:45.240" data-video="qanda-voice">of doing agenda to give me percentages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:50.680" data-start="00:53:50.680" data-video="qanda-voice">But I haven't figured that out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:54.280" data-start="00:53:54.280" data-video="qanda-voice">Seeing the granular level,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:57.100" data-start="00:53:57.100" data-video="qanda-voice">I can easily scan that with my eyes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:59.720" data-start="00:53:59.720" data-video="qanda-voice">So I just did it by hand rather than the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:59.900" data-start="00:53:59.900" data-video="qanda-voice">agenda.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:06.420" data-start="00:54:06.420" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:10.400" data-start="00:54:10.400" data-video="qanda-voice">times and pretty seriously,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:14.800" data-start="00:54:14.800" data-video="qanda-voice">but I keep bouncing off it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:17.920" data-start="00:54:17.920" data-video="qanda-voice">I think I get too many things built in or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:21.200" data-start="00:54:21.200" data-video="qanda-voice">scheduled and I just don't get to them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:26.000" data-start="00:54:26.000" data-video="qanda-voice">I feel bad about it and I wind up abandoning</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:31.220" data-start="00:54:31.220" data-video="qanda-voice">it. So that's 1 area where there's probably</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:34.820" data-start="00:54:34.820" data-video="qanda-voice">some potential for optimizing and making that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:40.260" data-start="00:54:40.260" data-video="qanda-voice">work better. There's a lot of customizing you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:42.280" data-start="00:54:42.280" data-video="qanda-voice">can do with Agenda. It's amazing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:44.540" data-start="00:54:44.540" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:48.480" data-start="00:54:48.480" data-video="qanda-voice">I wanted there to be a separation between the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:52.120" data-start="00:54:52.120" data-video="qanda-voice">daily to-do lists and like your grab bag</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:54.480" data-start="00:54:54.480" data-video="qanda-voice">which I think agenda works a lot better for a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:58.040" data-start="00:54:58.040" data-video="qanda-voice">grab bag. I want a nice way of looking back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:01.560" data-start="00:55:01.560" data-video="qanda-voice">at my to-do daily to-do logs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:05.980" data-start="00:55:05.980" data-video="qanda-voice">So I kind of want them to be separated,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:08.480" data-start="00:55:08.480" data-video="qanda-voice">so I just did them separate.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:12.540" data-start="00:55:12.540" data-video="qanda-voice">With the agenda, I could never figure out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:14.060" data-start="00:55:14.060" data-video="qanda-voice">exactly how I want that to work,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:15.620" data-start="00:55:15.620" data-video="qanda-voice">how the files would look,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:18.580" data-start="00:55:18.580" data-video="qanda-voice">and how all the Emacs settings would interact</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:21.300" data-start="00:55:21.300" data-video="qanda-voice">with it. I mean, I'm sure I could,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:28.780" data-start="00:55:28.780" data-video="qanda-voice">but that's why I opted for weekly files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:34.960" data-start="00:55:34.960" data-video="qanda-voice">Or at least That's my most refined idea on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:35.280" data-start="00:55:35.280" data-video="qanda-voice">the process.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:41.000" data-start="00:55:41.000" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:43.940" data-start="00:55:43.940" data-video="qanda-voice">is a little different that I'm generating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:46.760" data-start="00:55:46.760" data-video="qanda-voice">this text on a daily basis and popping it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:52.660" data-start="00:55:52.660" data-video="qanda-voice">into this to 1 document file per day and a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:59.020" data-start="00:55:59.020" data-video="qanda-voice">like a diary on Overleaf as a big so it winds</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:01.950" data-start="00:56:01.950" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:05.440" data-start="00:56:05.440" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:11.400" data-start="00:56:11.400" data-video="qanda-voice">chapter and it's compiled quickly enough even</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:13.100" data-start="00:56:13.100" data-video="qanda-voice">though it's often up to 1,000</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:14.780" data-start="00:56:14.780" data-video="qanda-voice">pages long by the end of the year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:17.220" data-start="00:56:17.220" data-video="qanda-voice">And I have all these, of course,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:19.240" data-start="00:56:19.240" data-video="qanda-voice">with the PDF, I can search through it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:22.540" data-start="00:56:22.540" data-video="qanda-voice">So that's not as you can't do the kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:24.380" data-start="00:56:24.380" data-video="qanda-voice">really sophisticated searching that you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:29.340" data-start="00:56:29.340" data-video="qanda-voice">do with Org Mode. But just doing that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:33.620" data-start="00:56:33.620" data-video="qanda-voice">It sure has been very helpful in digging up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:39.440" data-start="00:56:39.440" data-video="qanda-voice">information, like the little protocols on how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:42.960" data-start="00:56:42.960" data-video="qanda-voice">I attack, accomplish a certain task that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:45.420" data-start="00:56:45.420" data-video="qanda-voice">have to do a year later,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:50.440" data-start="00:56:50.440" data-video="qanda-voice">or to have a record of what I did on a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:54.220" data-start="00:56:54.220" data-video="qanda-voice">certain day and then somebody above me might</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:57.100" data-start="00:56:57.100" data-video="qanda-voice">be trying to hold me to account what got</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:59.580" data-start="00:56:59.580" data-video="qanda-voice">done. I can look that up pretty very quickly.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:05.140" data-start="00:57:05.140" data-video="qanda-voice">It's documented. I find that to be just any</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:09.520" data-start="00:57:09.520" data-video="qanda-voice">kind of thorough documentation system is very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:16.080" data-start="00:57:16.080" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:17.440" data-start="00:57:17.440" data-video="qanda-voice">rather than by a weak file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:20.140" data-start="00:57:20.140" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:21.820" data-start="00:57:21.820" data-video="qanda-voice">I ran into trouble with,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:25.380" data-start="00:57:25.380" data-video="qanda-voice">like, once you get a lot of items,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:27.040" data-start="00:57:27.040" data-video="qanda-voice">like if you have 1,000</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:30.580" data-start="00:57:30.580" data-video="qanda-voice">items, headings, I've had org files with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:33.680" data-start="00:57:33.680" data-video="qanda-voice">1,000 headings. It can be so hard to scroll</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:38.960" data-start="00:57:38.960" data-video="qanda-voice">through. Maybe it's some limitations I'm run</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:42.240" data-start="00:57:42.240" data-video="qanda-voice">into with the Emacs being single threaded.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:49.120" data-start="00:57:49.120" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:52.420" data-start="00:57:52.420" data-video="qanda-voice">It was like, that's 1 of the things is like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:54.240" data-start="00:57:54.240" data-video="qanda-voice">how exactly do you want this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:55.920" data-start="00:57:55.920" data-video="qanda-voice">the information structured because it can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:56.820" data-start="00:57:56.820" data-video="qanda-voice">change how it's retrieved.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:00.260" data-start="00:58:00.260" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:08.200" data-start="00:58:08.200" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:14.760" data-start="00:58:14.760" data-video="qanda-voice">logs and I put it all in the date and then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:15.700" data-start="00:58:15.700" data-video="qanda-voice">the priority, secondary,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:21.980" data-start="00:58:21.980" data-video="qanda-voice">unplanned tasks, and then I had it stay at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:24.940" data-start="00:58:24.940" data-video="qanda-voice">that, get auto expanded by that level by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:27.280" data-start="00:58:27.280" data-video="qanda-voice">default so I didn't see the individual task</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:30.720" data-start="00:58:30.720" data-video="qanda-voice">and you and then I had a but And then it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:33.120" data-start="00:58:33.120" data-video="qanda-voice">would say like I complete 205 or something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:34.440" data-start="00:58:34.440" data-video="qanda-voice">like that of secondary tasks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:38.000" data-start="00:58:38.000" data-video="qanda-voice">And then just being able just to quickly scan</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:39.740" data-start="00:58:39.740" data-video="qanda-voice">all the days and say, oh,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:42.960" data-start="00:58:42.960" data-video="qanda-voice">it just, the feedback you get from that is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:46.300" data-start="00:58:46.300" data-video="qanda-voice">worth a lot. And I don't think it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:47.920" data-start="00:58:47.920" data-video="qanda-voice">something, it's not something I could think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:49.320" data-start="00:58:49.320" data-video="qanda-voice">of how you do an agenda.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:53.300" data-start="00:58:53.300" data-video="qanda-voice">Even though I got done in the text files just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:57.260" data-start="00:58:57.260" data-video="qanda-voice">because you get that doesn't expand all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:59.580" data-start="00:58:59.580" data-video="qanda-voice">way so you so you can quickly just see on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:01.940" data-start="00:59:01.940" data-video="qanda-voice">this day I did this well on this day I did</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:05.800" data-start="00:59:05.800" data-video="qanda-voice">this well all within and 4 lines per day.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:11.040" data-start="00:59:11.040" data-video="qanda-voice">So it's not, that doesn't,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:12.920" data-start="00:59:12.920" data-video="qanda-voice">that's not very visually verbose.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:16.920" data-start="00:59:16.920" data-video="qanda-voice">Probably about as visually verbose as you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:18.640" data-start="00:59:18.640" data-video="qanda-voice">want it. They're not super long.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:23.000" data-start="00:59:23.000" data-video="qanda-voice">You easily see the 2 of 3 and stuff like that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:24.920" data-start="00:59:24.920" data-video="qanda-voice">that you get done so you can quickly and say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:29.380" data-start="00:59:29.380" data-video="qanda-voice">oh well, these are the days where I got my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:31.300" data-start="00:59:31.300" data-video="qanda-voice">primary tasks done or this week,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:36.340" data-start="00:59:36.340" data-video="qanda-voice">and this day I didn't do it well and you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:38.300" data-start="00:59:38.300" data-video="qanda-voice">could helps you correlate like your feelings</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:42.440" data-start="00:59:42.440" data-video="qanda-voice">with your to-do lists and journals and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:42.620" data-start="00:59:42.620" data-video="qanda-voice">whatnot.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:48.940" data-start="00:59:48.940" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:53.300" data-start="00:59:53.300" data-video="qanda-voice">Because it's summarizing capability.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:57.560" data-start="00:59:57.560" data-video="qanda-voice">It allows you to, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:00.656" data-start="01:00:00.656" data-video="qanda-voice">pull back and get an overview.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:01.040" data-start="01:00:01.040" data-video="qanda-voice">Get an overview.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:07.580" data-start="01:00:07.580" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:10.600" data-start="01:00:10.600" data-video="qanda-voice">from that almost when I did that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:12.620" data-start="01:00:12.620" data-video="qanda-voice">it feels like half the reason or should be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:14.580" data-start="01:00:14.580" data-video="qanda-voice">like half the reason is and it's something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:19.120" data-start="01:00:19.120" data-video="qanda-voice">that I don't if you use the agenda as it is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:21.220" data-start="01:00:21.220" data-video="qanda-voice">you wouldn't, I don't know how you would get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:23.160" data-start="01:00:23.160" data-video="qanda-voice">it, like saying, like looking at the week by</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:25.080" data-start="01:00:25.080" data-video="qanda-voice">week basis, breakdowns,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:27.120" data-start="01:00:27.120" data-video="qanda-voice">you might be able to get like percentages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:30.400" data-start="01:00:30.400" data-video="qanda-voice">which would be nice. Like I did this well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:33.700" data-start="01:00:33.700" data-video="qanda-voice">or like habit, I don't,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:35.640" data-start="01:00:35.640" data-video="qanda-voice">there might be things that could offer you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:39.700" data-start="01:00:39.700" data-video="qanda-voice">but. Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:46.780" data-start="01:00:46.780" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:48.560" data-start="01:00:48.560" data-video="qanda-voice">on various kinds of projects,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:52.020" data-start="01:00:52.020" data-video="qanda-voice">or various kinds of activities,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:57.880" data-start="01:00:57.880" data-video="qanda-voice">and to get some feedback in that regard.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:59.500" data-start="01:00:59.500" data-video="qanda-voice">And then you, but you got the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:02.040" data-start="01:01:02.040" data-video="qanda-voice">So I define a project as anything that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:06.300" data-start="01:01:06.300" data-video="qanda-voice">requires work at different points in time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:07.040" data-start="01:01:07.040" data-video="qanda-voice">more than 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:15.300" data-start="01:01:15.300" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:17.560" data-start="01:01:17.560" data-video="qanda-voice">that I made that demonstrates that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:22.200" data-start="01:01:22.200" data-video="qanda-voice">I don't know if you, do you have your email</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:24.520" data-start="01:01:24.520" data-video="qanda-voice">in your talk notes or anything?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:29.380" data-start="01:01:29.380" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:31.560" data-start="01:01:31.560" data-video="qanda-voice">slide. There should be my email address.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:40.560" data-start="01:01:40.560" data-video="qanda-voice">I can add it to my talk notes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:46.920" data-start="01:01:46.920" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:48.940" data-start="01:01:48.940" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:52.600" data-start="01:01:52.600" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:20.842" data-start="01:02:20.842" data-video="qanda-voice">I'm going to share screen button,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:21.220" data-start="01:02:21.220" data-video="qanda-voice">right? There's a share screen button,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:21.520" data-start="01:02:21.520" data-video="qanda-voice">right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:26.160" data-start="01:02:26.160" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:59.243" data-start="01:02:59.243" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:04.640" data-start="01:03:04.640" data-video="qanda-voice">Can you not share the screen on this?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:08.860" data-start="01:03:08.860" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:13.900" data-start="01:03:13.900" data-video="qanda-voice">Let's see. I have, I see some stuff on here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:18.160" data-start="01:03:18.160" data-video="qanda-voice">Wonder if I'm still active.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:21.180" data-start="01:03:21.180" data-video="qanda-voice">It shows share screen.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:22.280" data-start="01:03:22.280" data-video="qanda-voice">Cancel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:28.260" data-start="01:03:28.260" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:47.280" data-start="01:03:47.280" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:53.900" data-start="01:03:53.900" data-video="qanda-voice">I can put my email address in the chat.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:59.440" data-start="01:03:59.440" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:06.600" data-start="01:04:06.600" data-video="qanda-voice">but Let's see. Yeah, I think the way that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:11.260" data-start="01:04:11.260" data-video="qanda-voice">they did it on the Any of the other videos if</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:13.780" data-start="01:04:13.780" data-video="qanda-voice">they shared the screen they just shared the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:17.440" data-start="01:04:17.440" data-video="qanda-voice">webcam they just took over the webcam with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:20.380" data-start="01:04:20.380" data-video="qanda-voice">OBS and shared what they wanted with it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:22.760" data-start="01:04:22.760" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:24.720" data-start="01:04:24.720" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:26.960" data-start="01:04:26.960" data-video="qanda-voice">Yeah, I'll give that to you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:31.080" data-start="01:04:31.080" data-video="qanda-voice">Okay. I guess I'll let you go watch the rest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:32.240" data-start="01:04:32.240" data-video="qanda-voice">of the Emacs videos.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:34.640" data-start="01:04:34.640" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:37.280" data-start="01:04:37.280" data-video="qanda-voice">Thank you very much. I appreciate your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:39.620" data-start="01:04:39.620" data-video="qanda-voice">willingness to share your thoughts on this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:42.980" data-start="01:04:42.980" data-video="qanda-voice">matter. This is vital,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:48.260" data-start="01:04:48.260" data-video="qanda-voice">time management. It's a kind of key aspect of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:48.440" data-start="01:04:48.440" data-video="qanda-voice">life.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:54.680" data-start="01:04:54.680" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:03.320" data-start="01:05:03.320" data-video="qanda-voice">Reasons to use emacs is to use the keyboard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:08.240" data-start="01:05:08.240" data-video="qanda-voice">is. It's not to speed you up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:09.520" data-start="01:05:09.520" data-video="qanda-voice">Like, yeah, that's nice.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:12.280" data-start="01:05:12.280" data-video="qanda-voice">But it keeps you in the stream,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:25.400" data-start="01:05:25.400" data-video="qanda-voice">keeps you in the flow state and which then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:32.780" data-start="01:05:32.780" data-video="qanda-voice">just makes you think better and yeah and the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:35.540" data-start="01:05:35.540" data-video="qanda-voice">thing with that is you I have you I have no</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:37.480" data-start="01:05:37.480" data-video="qanda-voice">idea what the limits of that would be.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:39.680" data-start="01:05:39.680" data-video="qanda-voice">Because you think, because yes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:42.740" data-start="01:05:42.740" data-video="qanda-voice">it's not about beating up how many words you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:44.860" data-start="01:05:44.860" data-video="qanda-voice">say a minute. I mean that's nice and all,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:46.680" data-start="01:05:46.680" data-video="qanda-voice">But when you start doing that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:48.340" data-start="01:05:48.340" data-video="qanda-voice">when you start removing all these friction</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:52.500" data-start="01:05:52.500" data-video="qanda-voice">points, all of a sudden the number,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:57.800" data-start="01:05:57.800" data-video="qanda-voice">quality, and types of thoughts you get start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:01.620" data-start="01:06:01.620" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:03.480" data-start="01:06:03.480" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:14.960" data-start="01:06:14.960" data-video="qanda-voice"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:17.760" data-start="01:06:17.760" data-video="qanda-voice">Enjoy the rest of the meeting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:19.280" data-start="01:06:19.280" data-video="qanda-voice"></span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20voice%3A%20Enhancing%20productivity%20with%20voice%20computing">emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org</a></p>
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Mentoring VS-Coders as an Emacsian (or How to show not tell people about the wonders of Emacs)
https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/mentor/
Copyright © 2023 Jeremy Friesen
2024-01-11T10:49:17Z
2023-09-03T19:01:30Z
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<h1>Mentoring VS-Coders as an Emacsian (or How to show not tell people about the wonders of Emacs)</h1>
<p>Jeremy Friesen (he/him) - Pronunciation: JERR-im-EE FREE-SEHN, https://takeonrules.com, <a href="mailto:jeremy@jeremyfriesen.com">jeremy@jeremyfriesen.com</a></p>
<p>Format: 11-min talk; Q&A: BigBlueButton conference room<br />
Status: TO_INDEX_QA</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="mentor-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--main.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div></div>Duration: 10:44 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--intro.vtt">Download --intro.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--intro.webm">Download --intro.webm</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--main.opus">Download --main.opus (6.2MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--main.webm">Download --main.webm (26MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--pad.html">Download --pad.html</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--pad.md">Download --pad.md</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen.pdf">Download .pdf</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/sV9eKtGiPYZi5urxjoqerv">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="mentor-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="mentor-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div>Duration: 1:13:43 minutes<div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers--trimmed.webm">Download --answers--trimmed.webm (176MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (25MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a> (unedited)</li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2023/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (176MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
<p><details class="help"><summary>Help wanted: Q&A could be indexed with chapter markers </summary></p>
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<p><a href="https://takeonrules.com/2023/12/03/mentoring-vs-coders-as-an-emacsian/">https://takeonrules.com/2023/12/03/mentoring-vs-coders-as-an-emacsian/</a></p>
<p>Join me as I share some anecdotes and approaches for mentoring other
developers who use tools different from mine; all in service of
furthering a shared understanding, sharpening my own toolkit, and
hopefully helping others grow their capabilities.</p>
<p>Most everyone I mentor has chosen VS Code as their editor; yet I don’t
use VS Code. Our pairing and mentoring sessions are about me being
curious about their habits and modes of operation. I use my journeyman
knowledge of what Emacs can do to help these VS Coders navigate
pathways towards sharpening their skills. I also learn a few editor
tricks from them.</p>
<p>I’ll talk about remote pairing sessions, one-on-one sessions, and
larger show-and-tell efforts; each with the purpose of revealing
potentially different approaches. The idea being that asking questions
and showing alternate approaches can begin to illuminate previously
unknown pathways.</p>
<p>The underlying goal is to ignite in folks a desire to improve their
understanding and usage of their preferred tools; and show
alternatives that might peek further interest in learning and
exploration.</p>
<p>About the speaker:</p>
<p>Jeremy Friesen is a long-time software developer but only recently an
Emacs convert (as of May 2020). For most of his career he has been
writing open source software for educational institutions such as
universities, libraries, archives, and museums. He’s mentored several
dozen developers at his places of employment as well as through
volunteer efforts. He strives to meet people where they are, learn how
they are looking to grow, then working with them to grow; often by
nudging folks to practice and explore their tools.</p>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: re: super-. -- which key do you bind to super? then where is
meta?
<ul>
<li>A:mac: ctrl-meta-super---space---hyper-meta-ctrl (caps lock
as ctrl)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Great talk; what's the package you use to make the Org slide?
<ul>
<li>A: prot's logos, olivetti mode? I have a minor mode that I
turned on:
<a href="https://github.com/jeremyf/dotemacs/blob/2c5d37c2d0cc3f0433bc4588352bd6bf5bd09460/emacs.d/jf-framing.el#L109-L123">https://github.com/jeremyf/dotemacs/blob/2c5d37c2d0cc3f0433bc4588352bd6bf5bd09460/emacs.d/jf-framing.el#L109-L123</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: If people do get interested in picking up Emacs because of what
they see you do, how do you recommend they get into it?
<ul>
<li>A: A lot of it comes down to the problems that they're trying
to solve. I worked in TextMate for a long time, then Sublime,
then Atom... I chose Spacemacs, and then I chose Doom, and then
I said, wait, start over, erase everything, start with the
tutorial. I said, I really want this functionality. Then I went
and figured out how to do it. Helping ask them, "What do you
really want to do?" Ex: okay to advise people to go back to
vim, develop ownership of their editor. <strong>Understand the
problems they're experiencing,</strong> which tends to be what we
should do in software development. Take the time to walk with
them on their journey to understand what's frustrating them.
Story about a mentee learning to ask questions earlier (not
focused on navigating editor).</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: I've been using Emacs for about 30 years and I find it really
difficult to figure out how to help people get started with it. Uh
... so I guess my question is the same as the green question right
above this.
<ul>
<li>A: My wife a while ago talked about the idea of being in between
someone who's more informed and someone who's less informed.
Introducing someone who's new to Emacs might be too hard
because you're too much an expert. Pedagogy. Sharing what you
have where you're at will by nature move the entire queue of
people behind you, will help move them together forward. Not an
only one person thing, improving shared understanding.
<ul>
<li>Zone of proximal development; just i + 1 - Lev Vygotsky</li>
<li>It can be very challenging to unwind things. Muscle memory.
I know how to do it on a keyboard... We've internalized so
much. Being curious with them and close to them, trying to
diffuse questions and not ask overly leading questions... </li>
<li>What is the question that I can ask the group so that I can
ask the question? ex: not "Why do we suck at sharing
code?", but before that</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>I'm also 30 years in (at least) and just recently picked up
JF's method of only giving away a little bit of the
functionality of emacs at a time.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Have you encountered anyone that are being... "nagative" about
the fact that you're using Emacs? (Assuming that they just don't
know/have misconceptions about Emacs and nothing malicious.) If so,
how do you handle these kinds of people?
<ul>
<li>A: Analogy with a pen: my goal is to write something, who cares
about what kind of pen I use?</li>
<li>I want my text editor to flow with me.</li>
<li>I don't need it to multi-thread-- it's just me on the
computer.</li>
<li>"My goal is to be better at computering."</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: I love the attitudes and worldview that infuses your blog posts
and your talks this weekend. Learn something every week: it's
CUMULATIVE. English class was the most important. What other advice
do you have, and how is it generalizable to those of us who are not
devs?
<ul>
<li>A: fountain-mode (package for writing screenplays)</li>
<li>Wonderful answers! Thanks so much!</li>
<li>Broad curiosity (ex: background is liberal arts, very little
computer science classwork/theory; Lord of the Rings, poetry,
etc.)</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<h2>Notes</h2>
<ul>
<li>Presenter blogs at <a href="https://takeonrules.com">https://takeonrules.com</a></li>
<li>such valuable work being described</li>
<li>I wonder if there is still reasons to use ag compared to ripgrep
<ul>
<li>it can search compressed archives better, so I like using it on emacs sources
<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/aswild/the_silver_searcher/commit/7b571a8a94d0e22a06e3313cb0d9672b416fb2c1">https://github.com/aswild/the_silver_searcher/commit/7b571a8a94d0e22a06e3313cb0d9672b416fb2c1</a></li>
<li>yeah indeed, ripgrep shells out and is five times slower than ag</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Hyper modifier is tops. On normie keyboards, I like super, meta, space, meta, hyper. 100% do not regret switching to a split ergo mechanical QMK board.
<ul>
<li>On my work Mac, caps is control, I don't have a super, and it's meta-space-meta-hyper. But I almost never use that, because the keyboard is deeply unpleasant to actually type on. The sole thing I like better about Emacs on macOS over Emacs on Linux is that it's a oneliner to set the Hyper modifier. Linux requires delving deep into the forbidden territory of xkb. <a href="https://codeberg.org/ieure/xkbsucks">https://codeberg.org/ieure/xkbsucks</a> if you need a guide</li>
<li>my mac setup is the same as him but reversed: command is control, option is meta (like him) and control is super cuz i use super all the time. and hyper, like him, is on the right of the keyboard.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>(discussion about fountain pens)</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="mentor-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:01.380" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:00:01.380]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:01.380" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Introduction</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:01.380" data-start="00:00:01.380" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Hi everyone, my name is Jeremy Friesen, pronouns are he/him,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:06.320" data-start="00:00:06.320" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and today I'll be talking about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:07.880" data-start="00:00:07.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">mentoring VS Coders as an Emacs-ian.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:11.520" data-start="00:00:11.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">A little bit of background, since 2015, I've mentored</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:15.000" data-start="00:00:15.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">about 40 software developers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:16.560" data-start="00:00:16.560" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">many of them in career-transitioning roles,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:19.240" data-start="00:00:19.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">oftentimes from boot camps.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:21.740" data-start="00:00:21.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I've also managed a couple of small software development teams.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:26.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:00:26.740]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:26.740" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Framing approaches</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.740" data-start="00:00:26.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So I want to think about mentoring and the framing approaches.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.600" data-start="00:00:30.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">We all don't know what we don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:32.940" data-start="00:00:32.940" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So while mentoring, I like to be curious---asking questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:36.420" data-start="00:00:36.420" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I like to be visible,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:37.660" data-start="00:00:37.660" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I also like to pair so that we can share.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:41.940" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:00:41.940]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:41.940" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">What are you looking to learn?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:41.940" data-start="00:00:41.940" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">When I start, I like to ask the following type of question:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:45.300" data-start="00:00:45.300" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"What have you been wanting to learn more of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:47.120" data-start="00:00:47.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">get better at, and improve on?"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:49.360" data-start="00:00:49.360" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Then I like to ask further questions to get an understanding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:52.940" data-start="00:00:52.940" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">of where they've been, where they're going,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:55.160" data-start="00:00:55.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and what they'd like to achieve.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:57.280" data-start="00:00:57.280" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Later I'll ask coaching questions, "what's going well,"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:00.140" data-start="00:01:00.140" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"where are you getting stuck,"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:01.420" data-start="00:01:01.420" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and "if you change one thing, what would it be?"</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:06.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:01:06.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:06.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Make the work visible</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.000" data-start="00:01:06.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So like many people, I shifted to remote work in 2020,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.840" data-start="00:01:09.840" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I've noticed a higher collaboration in remote work,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:13.160" data-start="00:01:13.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">when folks make their work visible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:15.920" data-start="00:01:15.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So to do that I host office hours,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:18.200" data-start="00:01:18.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I try to attend other people's office hours,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.680" data-start="00:01:20.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I'll open up a Slack huddle and just code by myself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:23.440" data-start="00:01:23.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but let folks know, please hop in.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:29.320" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:01:29.320]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:29.320" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Hop in and be curious</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:01:29.320" data-start="00:01:29.320" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I like to pay attention to other huddles that start.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.040" data-start="00:01:32.040" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">If they're going still for, like, 45 minutes or so,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:35.240" data-start="00:01:35.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'll hop in and say hello.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.800" data-start="00:01:36.800" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">It's even odds that they're moving along just fine</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:39.400" data-start="00:01:39.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">or that they're stuck.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:40.800" data-start="00:01:40.800" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So by hopping into the Slack huddle,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:43.280" data-start="00:01:43.280" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'm helping with a common problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.480" data-start="00:01:45.480" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">How do you know when you're stuck?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:47.200" data-start="00:01:47.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">This is something that---as a manager---folks want to know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.640" data-start="00:01:50.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">how can I get unstuck faster?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.440" data-start="00:01:53.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">As a human, it can be frustrating to be stuck for a long time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:57.120" data-start="00:01:57.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but you also learn stuff</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:58.600" data-start="00:01:58.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">when you're dealing with the hard things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:00.760" data-start="00:02:00.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So you really need to balance that time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.220" data-start="00:02:03.220" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I find hopping in, just being a gentle presence,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:07.160" data-start="00:02:07.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">with yes... an agenda, but just to say hi,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:10.360" data-start="00:02:10.360" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">is crucial to help the team members move along.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:15.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:02:15.880]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:15.880" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Pairing is for sharing</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:02:15.880" data-start="00:02:15.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Pairing is for sharing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:17.240" data-start="00:02:17.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">When I pair, I like to let others drive.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:19.920" data-start="00:02:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">They're typing and working to resolve the problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:22.240" data-start="00:02:22.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'm giving guidance, asking questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.600" data-start="00:02:24.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">maybe thinking through a refactor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:27.120" data-start="00:02:27.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'm also spending time observing how they interact with their editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:31.160" data-start="00:02:31.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">In the moment, I try to limit advice to, like, one concept.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:35.840" data-start="00:02:35.840" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">A lot of folks don't know that <code>Control-a</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:37.800" data-start="00:02:37.800" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">will take you to the beginning of line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.720" data-start="00:02:39.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Just sharing that is huge sometimes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:42.680" data-start="00:02:42.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Just gently do it and let it float there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:46.920" data-start="00:02:46.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">And assuming we have a regular mentoring session,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.920" data-start="00:02:48.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'll make sure to ask how they're feeling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:50.400" data-start="00:02:50.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">about using their tools afterwards.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:52.680" data-start="00:02:52.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I would love to get to the point where they ask,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:55.680" data-start="00:02:55.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"You saw me using my editor, what is something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:58.760" data-start="00:02:58.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I could learn?"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.960" data-start="00:03:00.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'm working on getting to that point.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:03.860" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:03:03.860]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:03.860" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Editor functions</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:03:03.860" data-start="00:03:03.860" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">While pairing, I like to pay attention</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:05.200" data-start="00:03:05.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">to how folks handle the following.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:07.440" data-start="00:03:07.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Where do they want to go?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:08.560" data-start="00:03:08.560" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">How do they get there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:10.760" data-start="00:03:10.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Here they are, now what?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:12.080" data-start="00:03:12.080" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">How do they summarize?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:13.600" data-start="00:03:13.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I know what I can do in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:15.240" data-start="00:03:15.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I assume that VS Code can do something similar.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:17.400" data-start="00:03:17.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">It's a matter of helping the mentees find those packages and plugins.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:23.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:03:23.240]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:23.240" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Where do they want to go?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:03:23.240" data-start="00:03:23.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Where to go?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:24.240" data-start="00:03:24.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Search within a project.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.760" data-start="00:03:25.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Everybody knows about this, but one thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:28.000" data-start="00:03:28.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">that has been really critical for me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:29.800" data-start="00:03:29.800" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">has been the arrival of <code>Orderless</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:31.960" data-start="00:03:31.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">A little quick demonstration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:34.760" data-start="00:03:34.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">If I look, and I have this "chicken" and I do "spell",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:40.720" data-start="00:03:40.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I have found one, and they don't have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:42.201" data-start="00:03:42.201" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">to be in the right order.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:43.381" data-start="00:03:43.381" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">In fact, I can go back, and "spell" is there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:48.040" data-start="00:03:48.040" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Super easy, helpful, so I don't have to think about it, the order.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:52.760" data-start="00:03:52.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Search across projects.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:54.720" data-start="00:03:54.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Cross-repository searching is super-simple in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:59.520" data-start="00:03:59.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I've never seen anyone do it in VS Code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:02.740" data-start="00:04:02.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I'm also trying to introduce folks to command-line tools</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:05.640" data-start="00:04:05.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">such as RipGrep and SilverSearcher,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:07.960" data-start="00:04:07.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">not just to look in the project, but to go one directory up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:10.640" data-start="00:04:10.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and look across projects</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:12.000" data-start="00:04:12.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">because sometimes when you're working on lots of different projects,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:15.060" data-start="00:04:15.060" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">there might be solutions or ideas that come from there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:19.960" data-start="00:04:19.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Also notice that a lot of people use directory trees to navigate,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:23.240" data-start="00:04:23.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but I favor the fuzzy text.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:25.600" data-start="00:04:25.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So I can do something like <code>Command-t</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.760" data-start="00:04:27.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and start looking for things in there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:31.280" data-start="00:04:31.280" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I just type the name of the file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:33.760" data-start="00:04:33.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I use <code>consult-projectile</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:35.320" data-start="00:04:35.320" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">which has a lot of really cool functionality.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:39.540" data-start="00:04:39.540" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">The big one being I can type <code>r</code>, recent file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:43.080" data-start="00:04:43.080" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I can type <code>p</code> and jump to a different project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:47.720" data-start="00:04:47.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">so it's a quick navigation tool that I've not seen in VS Code.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:53.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:04:53.440]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:53.440" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">How do they get there?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:04:53.440" data-start="00:04:53.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Next up is how do they get there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:56.520" data-start="00:04:56.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I like to use LSP for the languages,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.960" data-start="00:04:58.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and I bound <code>M-.</code> to this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:02.880" data-start="00:05:02.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and jump back and forth to definitions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:05.520" data-start="00:05:05.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I just showed <code>projectile</code> or <code>consult-projectile</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:09.440" data-start="00:05:09.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and its super-amazing multifunction finder.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:12.860" data-start="00:05:12.860" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Also another one that I am very avid about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:15.520" data-start="00:05:15.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">is the jump between definition and test.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.520" data-start="00:05:19.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I bind that to <code>Super-.</code></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:22.840" data-start="00:05:22.840" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and it helps me jump back and forth</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:25.840" data-start="00:05:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">between my production code and my test code---</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.520" data-start="00:05:28.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">especially in Ruby, there's an idiom for that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:32.120" data-start="00:05:32.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">There is plugins in VS Code that does this correctly.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:36.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:05:36.640]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:36.640" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Here they are, now what?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.640" data-start="00:05:36.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Next up, now I'm here, what do I do?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:39.400" data-start="00:05:39.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Word completion, Emacs just knocks everything out of the park:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:44.600" data-start="00:05:44.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor"><code>dabbrev</code>, <code>templates</code>, <code>hippie-expand</code>, <code>completion-at-point</code>.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:48.200" data-start="00:05:48.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Sometimes it just hurts to watch people type stuff</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:52.080" data-start="00:05:52.080" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">that they could quickly expand</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.320" data-start="00:05:54.320" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">because there are words within the code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.300" data-start="00:05:56.300" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Another one is auto-formatting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:57.920" data-start="00:05:57.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Tree sitter...its arrival is great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:00.040" data-start="00:06:00.040" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I assume this is going to get better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:01.480" data-start="00:06:01.480" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I love highlighting a region, hitting <code>TAB</code>, and it's just formatted.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:04.920" data-start="00:06:04.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I've seen a lot of VS Coders... that doesn't work for them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:08.761" data-start="00:06:08.761" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Don't know why, trying to get them to see it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:11.080" data-start="00:06:11.080" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Multi-cursor [<code>multiple-cursors</code>] and <code>iedit</code>...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:12.901" data-start="00:06:12.901" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">took me a long time to explore <code>iedit</code>,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:14.800" data-start="00:06:14.800" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but the practice... but practicing was huge,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:17.840" data-start="00:06:17.840" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and it has transformed my approach to coding and typing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:21.480" data-start="00:06:21.480" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Folks know about multi-cursor editing and editing-in-region</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:24.520" data-start="00:06:24.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but make sure that they are aware of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:27.920" data-start="00:06:27.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">It's important.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:29.720" data-start="00:06:29.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Next up is inline searching.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:32.620" data-start="00:06:32.620" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">My beloved Textmate... it was the first thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.200" data-start="00:06:35.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">In fact, it was why I chose not to use Emacs in 2005</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:38.440" data-start="00:06:38.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and went with Textmate.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:41.680" data-start="00:06:41.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">This is something quite simple.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:43.760" data-start="00:06:43.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I can do <code>search</code> within here, and I can see "introduced",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:50.000" data-start="00:06:50.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and it will show me the line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:52.240" data-start="00:06:52.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">What I like about that is when I'm in code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:54.120" data-start="00:06:54.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I can see the neighborhood of other things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:56.320" data-start="00:06:56.320" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and get a good idea of what's around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:58.360" data-start="00:06:58.360" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Yes, there is <code>occur-mode</code> that can be super useful,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:01.640" data-start="00:07:01.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but I'm used to the Textmate in it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:03.840" data-start="00:07:03.840" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I just love it.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:06.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:07:06.640]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:06.640" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">How do they summarize?</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:07:06.640" data-start="00:07:06.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Next up is how they summarize.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:08.680" data-start="00:07:08.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I've seen a lot of bootcamp graduates write commit messages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:11.720" data-start="00:07:11.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">by going to the command line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:14.380" data-start="00:07:14.380" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">In my experience, commit messages written in the command line</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:17.040" data-start="00:07:17.040" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">tend to be terse.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:18.200" data-start="00:07:18.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">They miss something.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:19.160" data-start="00:07:19.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">So I try to really quickly shift folks to use their text editor,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:23.480" data-start="00:07:23.480" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">encourage them and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:24.400" data-start="00:07:24.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">teach them about <code>$GIT_EDITOR</code> and <code>$EDITOR</code> for the environment variables</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:28.040" data-start="00:07:28.040" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">so they can make their commits from the command line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:31.000" data-start="00:07:31.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">And if not there, help them improve how they do VS Code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:34.200" data-start="00:07:34.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">My little screed at the top:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:35.920" data-start="00:07:35.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">the interface for VS Code's commit is trash.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:38.960" data-start="00:07:38.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">It is why I stepped away from VS Code when I was exploring editors.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:44.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:07:44.440]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:44.440" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">General strategies</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.440" data-start="00:07:44.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Next up, my goal is to encourage folks to use editors for writing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:48.440" data-start="00:07:48.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">to think about owning that tool.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:52.060" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:07:52.060]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:07:52.060" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Commit to one item of learning each week</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:07:52.060" data-start="00:07:52.060" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I have them try to learn one thing a week.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:54.680" data-start="00:07:54.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Maybe they aren't going to learn it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.920" data-start="00:07:55.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but just not to overwhelm them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:57.800" data-start="00:07:57.800" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and find those high-value things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.880" data-start="00:07:59.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Jump to spec, jump to code... super-valuable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:03.720" data-start="00:08:03.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">because I see folks doing it a lot during the day,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:06.520" data-start="00:08:06.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and it can really speed up the transition time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:10.080" data-start="00:08:10.080" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and keep the focus between the test...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.760" data-start="00:08:12.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">what you're trying to test and what you're trying to define,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.480" data-start="00:08:15.480" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">which can get lost if you do the tree navigation.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:18.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:08:18.960]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:18.960" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Practice within your knowledge domain</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:18.960" data-start="00:08:18.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Also I encourage people to practice their domain knowledge.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.880" data-start="00:08:22.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I learned a lot about programming by doing a bunch of things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:27.160" data-start="00:08:27.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">related to RPGs---role-playing games.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:30.020" data-start="00:08:30.020" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I did this previously in Ruby---dice rollers, note takers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:33.120" data-start="00:08:33.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">random table lookups---and now I'm doing it in Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.880" data-start="00:08:35.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Knowing the domain helps me set aside the problem space</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:40.520" data-start="00:08:40.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and then explore how I code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:42.000" data-start="00:08:42.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and how I can implement things differently.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:47.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:08:47.120]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:47.120" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Note-taking</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:08:47.120" data-start="00:08:47.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Note-taking: pay attention to how folks create a fleeting note.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:51.240" data-start="00:08:51.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">It can be excruciating as they try to figure out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:54.640" data-start="00:08:54.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"where am I going to put this?"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:55.600" data-start="00:08:55.600" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"What file?"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.160" data-start="00:08:56.160" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"Where does it go?"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:57.660" data-start="00:08:57.660" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Emacs, we have the <em>scratch</em> buffer or anything else,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:01.760" data-start="00:09:01.760" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but ask them about their note-taking habits</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:07.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:09:07.120]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:07.120" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Help them navigate the proprietary software tar pits</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:09:07.120" data-start="00:09:07.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and help them navigate the proprietary software tar pits.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:11.640" data-start="00:09:11.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">We know that anything that is venture-capital funded</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:14.360" data-start="00:09:14.360" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">will eventually collapse.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:16.040" data-start="00:09:16.040" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">We know that things that don't have a sustainable business model</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:20.920" data-start="00:09:20.920" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">without surveillance capitalism</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:22.400" data-start="00:09:22.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">is going to also have problems.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:25.300" data-start="00:09:25.300" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Encourage folks to think about how they're owning their notes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:28.560" data-start="00:09:28.560" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Do they place true value on those,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:30.640" data-start="00:09:30.640" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">or are they things that are kind of ephemeral?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:33.120" data-start="00:09:33.120" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">And then help them find the thing that makes sense for them.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:38.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:09:38.520]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:38.520" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Help show the joy of holisting computering</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:09:38.520" data-start="00:09:38.520" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Put another way, I want people to think holistically</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:43.240" data-start="00:09:43.240" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">about their generalized "computering" environment.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:47.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:09:47.740]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:09:47.740" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Playing is for staying</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.740" data-start="00:09:47.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">And I also think about the reason why</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:50.080" data-start="00:09:50.080" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I've stayed a software developer for 25-years plus</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:53.680" data-start="00:09:53.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">is because I approach all of this as play and storytelling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:58.000" data-start="00:09:58.000" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Sometimes happy byproduct is that I ship features and documentation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:02.440" data-start="00:10:02.440" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">and help people get stuff done.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:05.200" data-start="00:10:05.200" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Yet I don't tell folks to use Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:07.960" data-start="00:10:07.960" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Instead, I'm doing my best to show a myriad of reasons</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:10.720" data-start="00:10:10.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">for why folks should consider Emacs.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:14.900" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">[00:10:14.900]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:14.900" title="" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Conclusion</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:10:14.900" data-start="00:10:14.900" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">In conclusion, ask questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:18.740" data-start="00:10:18.740" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Find a person who is a VS Coder and just say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:22.400" data-start="00:10:22.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">"hey, I learned something new."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:23.880" data-start="00:10:23.880" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">We play this game all the time, me and my coworker Kirk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:26.720" data-start="00:10:26.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">I love it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:27.700" data-start="00:10:27.700" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Another goal is showing the malleability of Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:31.480" data-start="00:10:31.480" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">how easy it is to extend.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:34.400" data-start="00:10:34.400" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">And obviously there's so much more than what I've highlighted,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:36.680" data-start="00:10:36.680" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">but then again, that's Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:38.720" data-start="00:10:38.720" data-video="mainVideo-mentor">Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.</span></p>
<p>Captioner: hannah</p>
<p><a name="mentor-qanda-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:09.480" data-start="00:00:09.480" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:10.760" data-start="00:00:10.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">Hi, Jeremy, how are you doing?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:11.840" data-start="00:00:11.840" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:12.380" data-start="00:00:12.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">How about you?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:14.759" data-start="00:00:14.759" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:16.480" data-start="00:00:16.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm really happy to see all the talk that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:18.600" data-start="00:00:18.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">we're having. And I was particularly excited</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:21.880" data-start="00:00:21.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">when I got your proposal for this talk</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:24.080" data-start="00:00:24.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">because mentoring, as I was telling you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:25.040" data-start="00:00:25.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">during the check-in process,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:27.360" data-start="00:00:27.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">is a subject dear to my heart.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:28.700" data-start="00:00:28.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I'm really excited,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.640" data-start="00:00:30.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">not only for the talk that you've just done,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:32.200" data-start="00:00:32.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">but also for the question that people are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:32.880" data-start="00:00:32.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">going to ask you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:35.760" data-start="00:00:35.760" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:39.600" data-start="00:00:39.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">questions. Mentoring is also something near</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:43.860" data-start="00:00:43.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">and dear. Something I did not mention is when</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:45.620" data-start="00:00:45.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">folks would ask me, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:47.000" data-start="00:00:47.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">what was your most important class?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:48.920" data-start="00:00:48.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">Or I said, oh, easy, easy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:50.180" data-start="00:00:50.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">easy, high school English.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:54.160" data-start="00:00:54.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like, it's my whatever your primary written</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:56.320" data-start="00:00:56.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">and spoken languages I think is the most</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.860" data-start="00:00:58.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">useful skill as a programmer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.379" data-start="00:01:05.379" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.520" data-start="00:01:09.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">questions to Jeremy, feel free to find the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:11.440" data-start="00:01:11.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">link to the other pad either on the talk page</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:15.440" data-start="00:01:15.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">or on IRC. We're also going to open the chat</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:17.320" data-start="00:01:17.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">so that people can join us and ask questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.380" data-start="00:01:20.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">Let me just make sure that I tell Sasha can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.440" data-start="00:01:25.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">you open ID Mentor. All right so in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:27.320" data-start="00:01:27.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">meantime what we'll do is that I'll be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:29.660" data-start="00:01:29.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">reading questions of the pad and Jeremy will</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:31.400" data-start="00:01:31.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">be answering them whilst we wait for you to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:32.800" data-start="00:01:32.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">join. Now just to be clear with the time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:34.640" data-start="00:01:34.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">we have a little bit of time now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:36.040" data-start="00:01:36.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">a little more time than before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:39.520" data-start="00:01:39.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">We have 22 minutes, so until 10 of the next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:41.260" data-start="00:01:41.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">hours to answer as many questions as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:42.520" data-start="00:01:42.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">possible. And believe me,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.040" data-start="00:01:45.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">if you people watching right now are not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:47.280" data-start="00:01:47.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">asking questions, I will be asking plenty of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:49.840" data-start="00:01:49.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">them. So please, save Jeremy from my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.800" data-start="00:01:53.800" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:55.320" data-start="00:01:55.320" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:56.960" data-start="00:01:56.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">Starting with the first question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:59.240" data-start="00:01:59.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">a very trivial 1, perhaps,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:01.720" data-start="00:02:01.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">but always 1 that I ask myself when I look at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.840" data-start="00:02:03.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">a keyboard. Regarding super key,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:05.980" data-start="00:02:05.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">which key do you bind to super?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.620" data-start="00:02:09.620" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.180" data-start="00:02:12.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">which is on a Mac keyboard,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:16.620" data-start="00:02:16.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">so the key right to the left of the space bar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:20.860" data-start="00:02:20.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">is super. And the key immediately to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:23.000" data-start="00:02:23.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">right of spacebar, which is the right command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.320" data-start="00:02:24.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">key, is bound to hyper,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:28.140" data-start="00:02:28.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">which opens up a whole new suite of keys.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:31.080" data-start="00:02:31.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I thought it would take a little bit to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:33.160" data-start="00:02:33.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">get used to, but it's been amazing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:37.800" data-start="00:02:37.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I definitely recommend having a hyper</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:38.440" data-start="00:02:38.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">binding.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:42.440" data-start="00:02:42.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:43.860" data-start="00:02:43.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">binding. No, it's a hyper binding.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:44.800" data-start="00:02:44.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">We already have super.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:47.120" data-start="00:02:47.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's your Windows key or your Linux key or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.240" data-start="00:02:48.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">whatever you want to call it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:51.140" data-start="00:02:51.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">But I will warn people though,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:57.720" data-start="00:02:57.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's the gateway into fancy keyboard setups</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.900" data-start="00:03:00.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">because it starts, it's the Trojan horse of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:02.700" data-start="00:03:02.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">fancy keyboard setup. Just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:04.320" data-start="00:03:04.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">oh I wish I could have another modifier.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.960" data-start="00:03:06.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then many years later,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:09.160" data-start="00:03:09.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">you find yourself with this little thing that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:11.260" data-start="00:03:11.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm showing, which is a fully customized QMK</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:12.100" data-start="00:03:12.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">keyboard.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:13.540" data-start="00:03:13.540" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:18.200" data-start="00:03:18.200" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:21.880" data-start="00:03:21.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">of super, and then control is to the left of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:26.720" data-start="00:03:26.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">meta. And also, caps lock maps to control as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:31.380" data-start="00:03:31.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">well. Definitely tried a bunch of tap for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:35.460" data-start="00:03:35.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">this and that on a programmable keyboard,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:39.280" data-start="00:03:39.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I have settled on keep it simple and use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:41.580" data-start="00:03:41.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">something like carabiner elements to do most</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:46.400" data-start="00:03:46.400" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:48.480" data-start="00:03:48.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">there. I wish I'd stopped there at some point</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:50.940" data-start="00:03:50.940" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:52.900" data-start="00:03:52.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">where I'm like, oh, what have I done when I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.760" data-start="00:03:53.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">was trying to type once?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:57.500" data-start="00:03:57.500" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:58.920" data-start="00:03:58.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">moving on to the next question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.360" data-start="00:04:01.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">Great talk. What's the package you used to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:02.120" data-start="00:04:02.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">make the org slide?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.280" data-start="00:04:03.280" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:13.680" data-start="00:04:13.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">so I am using Protz Logos and have,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:15.660" data-start="00:04:15.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">I think, like, Olivet mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:19.959" data-start="00:04:19.959" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'll post a link to the configuration for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:21.019" data-start="00:04:21.019" data-video="qanda-mentor">turning it on and off.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:24.280" data-start="00:04:24.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">But it's basically narrow region to an org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:27.940" data-start="00:04:27.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">heading, which is, I find that to be super</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:30.300" data-start="00:04:30.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">helpful. Don't have to fiddle with it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:32.900" data-start="00:04:32.900" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:34.920" data-start="00:04:34.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's Olivetti, right? I think that's the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:36.460" data-start="00:04:36.460" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:39.960" data-start="00:04:39.960" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:42.720" data-start="00:04:42.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">to pronounce between Europeans and people in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:46.080" data-start="00:04:46.080" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:48.940" data-start="00:04:48.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">the I at the end. So in my head</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.660" data-start="00:04:52.660" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:54.440" data-start="00:04:54.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">people do get interested in picking up emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:56.520" data-start="00:04:56.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">because of what they see you do How do you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.260" data-start="00:04:58.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">recommend they say they get into it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.440" data-start="00:04:58.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">Oh</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:05.600" data-start="00:05:05.600" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:09.620" data-start="00:05:09.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">down to what are the problems that they're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:11.600" data-start="00:05:11.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">trying to solve. And so I walked them through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:15.460" data-start="00:05:15.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">my journey. I worked in TextMate for a long</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:16.980" data-start="00:05:16.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">time, then Sublime, then Atom.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:20.220" data-start="00:05:20.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then in 2020, I hopped over to Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:25.080" data-start="00:05:25.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">started writing in it and I chose Space Max</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:26.680" data-start="00:05:26.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">and then I chose Doom.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.140" data-start="00:05:28.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then I was like, wait,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.080" data-start="00:05:33.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">start over, erase everything and just do the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:36.620" data-start="00:05:36.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">tutorial. So I did the tutorial and then I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:37.800" data-start="00:05:37.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">started writing and I was like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:39.520" data-start="00:05:39.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">oh, I really want this functionality.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:43.380" data-start="00:05:43.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so I went and I looked for it and I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:44.060" data-start="00:05:44.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">installed the package.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:46.060" data-start="00:05:46.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then I got the functionality,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:47.960" data-start="00:05:47.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">went back to writing, and I'm like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:49.920" data-start="00:05:49.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">oh, my editor should really be able to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:52.000" data-start="00:05:52.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">this. And I thought about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:55.380" data-start="00:05:55.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">So a lot of it came down to the experience of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:56.320" data-start="00:05:56.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">what they're trying to accomplish.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:00.900" data-start="00:06:00.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">And really helping ask them that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:04.600" data-start="00:06:04.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">I had 1 mentee had used Vim for a long time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:07.700" data-start="00:06:07.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">and then was exploring using Evil Mode and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:13.100" data-start="00:06:13.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs and we had conversations and it was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.840" data-start="00:06:16.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">like go back to Vim like you were using VS</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:19.040" data-start="00:06:19.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">Code just go back to Vim and they went back</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:20.980" data-start="00:06:20.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">to Vim and then they started writing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:22.760" data-start="00:06:22.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">well, they went to NeoVim and they started</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:27.620" data-start="00:06:27.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">writing Lua plugins for stuff and it just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:29.480" data-start="00:06:29.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">helped free them and they gained that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:31.320" data-start="00:06:31.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">ownership in their text editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:37.520" data-start="00:06:37.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I try to have them think through what are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:40.160" data-start="00:06:40.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">the common tasks that they're trying to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:44.180" data-start="00:06:44.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">accomplish and then thinking in terms of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:46.320" data-start="00:06:46.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">that. So instead of going and finding a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.340" data-start="00:06:48.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">solution, understand the problems they're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:52.180" data-start="00:06:52.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">experiencing, which tends to be what we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:53.360" data-start="00:06:53.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">should do in software development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:57.720" data-start="00:06:57.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">Instead of implementing the solve a problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:02.000" data-start="00:07:02.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">Sometimes It's fun to implement an idea.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:04.840" data-start="00:07:04.840" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:06.740" data-start="00:07:06.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">really, when it comes to software</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:08.760" data-start="00:07:08.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">development, because what is at the crux of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:09.520" data-start="00:07:09.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">any kind of engineering?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:11.680" data-start="00:07:11.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Well, it's the problem you're trying to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:13.480" data-start="00:07:13.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">solve. If you've got 2 islands and you need</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:14.440" data-start="00:07:14.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">to join them up together,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:15.840" data-start="00:07:15.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">well, I need to build a bridge.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:17.160" data-start="00:07:17.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">Now, obviously with software,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:19.800" data-start="00:07:19.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">we have problems that defy the law of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:21.600" data-start="00:07:21.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">physics, which is great because we get very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:23.520" data-start="00:07:23.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">complex problems that are very exciting to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:26.380" data-start="00:07:26.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">solve. But when it comes to onboarding people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:28.180" data-start="00:07:28.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">into those ways of solving problems,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:29.540" data-start="00:07:29.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">well, I think mentoring,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:32.980" data-start="00:07:32.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">The key behind mentoring is that together,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:35.280" data-start="00:07:35.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">we're going to look at a problem and we're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:37.200" data-start="00:07:37.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">going to try to see how high would fix it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:40.240" data-start="00:07:40.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">And you're going to try to appreciate whether</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:42.280" data-start="00:07:42.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">this is something you would do as well or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:43.260" data-start="00:07:43.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">would like to do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:50.080" data-start="00:07:50.080" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:54.340" data-start="00:07:54.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's really taking time to walk with them on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:56.500" data-start="00:07:56.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">the journey to understand what's frustrating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:59.700" data-start="00:07:59.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">them. I have a coworker we've been working</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:01.240" data-start="00:08:01.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">together for a very long time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:05.280" data-start="00:08:05.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">She is not a fast navigator of her editor,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:08.860" data-start="00:08:08.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">but as we've talked, that's not where she's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:09.960" data-start="00:08:09.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">looking to get better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:17.380" data-start="00:08:17.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">She's looking to get better at asking the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:20.500" data-start="00:08:20.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">questions of the clients early so that we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:23.160" data-start="00:08:23.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">don't go down long paths of implementation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:27.940" data-start="00:08:27.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">So it's been great because she's not looking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:29.820" data-start="00:08:29.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">to get better at her text editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:32.500" data-start="00:08:32.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">She's adequate for how she navigates.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:34.700" data-start="00:08:34.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">Other people look and they're like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:35.740" data-start="00:08:35.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">man, I want to do it faster.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:36.820" data-start="00:08:36.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want to do it different.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:37.840" data-start="00:08:37.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want to do it better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:39.480" data-start="00:08:39.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then we have a different conversation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:44.480" data-start="00:08:44.480" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:46.960" data-start="00:08:46.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">question. I've been using Emacs for about 30</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:49.120" data-start="00:08:49.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">years and I find it really difficult to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.860" data-start="00:08:50.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">figure out how to help people get started</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:54.400" data-start="00:08:54.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">with it So I guess my question is the same as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:55.680" data-start="00:08:55.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">the green question right about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:57.900" data-start="00:08:57.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">I think it's slightly different though You</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:00.860" data-start="00:09:00.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">could it is more about well go on please.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:01.500" data-start="00:09:01.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">Yeah</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:06.900" data-start="00:09:06.900" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:10.680" data-start="00:09:10.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">talked about the idea of,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:15.860" data-start="00:09:15.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">relative to anybody, I am an expert or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:19.020" data-start="00:09:19.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">slightly more informed on a topic than the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:20.380" data-start="00:09:20.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">person quote behind me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:22.360" data-start="00:09:22.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">And there's a person ahead of me who's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:24.240" data-start="00:09:24.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">slightly more informed than I am.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:27.880" data-start="00:09:27.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so what we're looking at is perhaps with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:28.820" data-start="00:09:28.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">30 years of experience,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:32.580" data-start="00:09:32.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">introducing someone to Emacs might be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:35.780" data-start="00:09:35.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">difficult because you've you're too much of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:41.120" data-start="00:09:41.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">an expert. So maybe the there's a an idea of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:42.380" data-start="00:09:42.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">like what are the principles of pedagogy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:45.180" data-start="00:09:45.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">I know we that was talked about yesterday in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:47.180" data-start="00:09:47.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">a presentation about like here's a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:49.160" data-start="00:09:49.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">constraint, you're using Emacs for the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:54.660" data-start="00:09:54.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">course. But so it's that idea of sharing what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:56.880" data-start="00:09:56.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">you have, where you're at,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:00.220" data-start="00:10:00.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">will, I think by nature,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:03.360" data-start="00:10:03.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">move the entire queue of people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:04.940" data-start="00:10:04.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">like they don't really exist.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:06.380" data-start="00:10:06.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, they do, but they don't.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:08.600" data-start="00:10:08.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">Behind you, it'll help move them together</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:10.320" data-start="00:10:10.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">forward just a little bit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:13.440" data-start="00:10:13.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">And maybe we all move the condition together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:17.760" data-start="00:10:17.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">So It's not a only 1 person kind of thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:22.120" data-start="00:10:22.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's a mindset of improving shared</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:22.540" data-start="00:10:22.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">understanding.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:26.520" data-start="00:10:26.520" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:28.180" data-start="00:10:28.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">something that you mentioned in your answer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:30.940" data-start="00:10:30.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">because it's, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:33.060" data-start="00:10:33.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">what the person asking the question</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:35.240" data-start="00:10:35.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">mentioned, 30 years of advance,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:36.620" data-start="00:10:36.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">basically, on starting Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.900" data-start="00:10:37.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">You know, that's a lot of time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:40.600" data-start="00:10:40.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">And you tend to equate this to a massive gap</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:42.440" data-start="00:10:42.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">in terms of skills between the 2 people.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:47.600" data-start="00:10:47.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">And whilst it's obvious that would be a gap</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:50.280" data-start="00:10:50.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">of skills. You know, I find that learning in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:54.960" data-start="00:10:54.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">terms of pedagogy works best when the person</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:58.180" data-start="00:10:58.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">doing the teaching is very close in terms of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:00.380" data-start="00:11:00.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">skill levels to the person being taught.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:02.620" data-start="00:11:02.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">Why is it the case? It's because it's much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:05.660" data-start="00:11:05.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">fresher in their memory what are the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:08.100" data-start="00:11:08.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">different elements that they have to go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:09.440" data-start="00:11:09.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">through to acquire a particular skill.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:12.440" data-start="00:11:12.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">To go a little bit into the theory,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:14.640" data-start="00:11:14.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm not sure if you're familiar with Vygotsky</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.380" data-start="00:11:16.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">or at least the I plus 1.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:17.640" data-start="00:11:17.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">Are you familiar with this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:20.540" data-start="00:11:20.540" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:22.600" data-start="00:11:22.600" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:24.520" data-start="00:11:24.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">and it's 1 of the things they taught us.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:26.920" data-start="00:11:26.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's about the fact that when you are trying</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:28.900" data-start="00:11:28.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">to make someone acquire a skill,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:31.840" data-start="00:11:31.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">I represents the current knowledge,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:34.960" data-start="00:11:34.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">and plus 1 is the thing that you should be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.920" data-start="00:11:38.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">teaching them and the theory behind it is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:41.820" data-start="00:11:41.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">that it's much easier to teach someone to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:44.260" data-start="00:11:44.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">teach something to someone when they only</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:46.100" data-start="00:11:46.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">have to focus on plus 1 i.e.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:48.460" data-start="00:11:48.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">Something that is very close nearby to them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:50.580" data-start="00:11:50.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">If you go with something that is I plus 2,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:53.240" data-start="00:11:53.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">I plus 3, or god forbid I plus 10,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:55.760" data-start="00:11:55.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's going to be much harder for them to get</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:58.100" data-start="00:11:58.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">to the understanding because the distance is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:01.720" data-start="00:12:01.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">much greater. And that's why I think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:05.000" data-start="00:12:05.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">mentoring can be taken in 2 ways.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:07.740" data-start="00:12:07.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">It could be a mentor who's merely ahead of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:10.380" data-start="00:12:10.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">you by plus 1, or it could be a mentor that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:12.040" data-start="00:12:12.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">is ahead of you by plus 10,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:14.380" data-start="00:12:14.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">but who has the understanding of what plus 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.800" data-start="00:12:15.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">plus 2, and plus 3 is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:22.680" data-start="00:12:22.680" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:27.400" data-start="00:12:27.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">unwind that. I know if we think about all of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:33.540" data-start="00:12:33.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">our hands or input methods have a memory of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:35.920" data-start="00:12:35.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">something that I honestly couldn't tell you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:38.440" data-start="00:12:38.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">what it is. Right? Like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:40.240" data-start="00:12:40.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">I know how to do it on a keyboard,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:43.480" data-start="00:12:43.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">right? We've internalized so much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:47.900" data-start="00:12:47.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so, yeah, how to walk backward is a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:51.940" data-start="00:12:51.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">distinct challenge and being curious with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:55.600" data-start="00:12:55.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">them and close to them and not asking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:00.300" data-start="00:13:00.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">trying to diffuse questions and not ask like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:03.120" data-start="00:13:03.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">leading, not overly leading.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.280" data-start="00:13:09.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">An example, early on in my mentoring career,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:11.260" data-start="00:13:11.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">I was working in a community project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:14.280" data-start="00:13:14.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">and I really wanted to go in and say to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:18.000" data-start="00:13:18.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">everybody, why do we suck at sharing code?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:21.020" data-start="00:13:21.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">But instead I said, wait a minute,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:24.880" data-start="00:13:24.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">what would be the question I could ask the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:27.680" data-start="00:13:27.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">group in which I could then ask my question?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:30.320" data-start="00:13:30.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">So instead I went into the group and I said,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:32.560" data-start="00:13:32.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">how are we doing about sharing code?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:37.120" data-start="00:13:37.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">And collectively, we were able to establish</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:39.200" data-start="00:13:39.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">we didn't feel very good about it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:42.740" data-start="00:13:42.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">And that conversation now 9 years ago,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:47.020" data-start="00:13:47.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">helped move a process along for the last,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:50.220" data-start="00:13:50.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">like it gave it energy for 9 years of how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:51.560" data-start="00:13:51.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">we're sharing and how we're approaching</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:58.260" data-start="00:13:58.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">stuff. So yeah, the curious questions are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:00.060" data-start="00:14:00.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">super helpful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:04.440" data-start="00:14:04.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:06.940" data-start="00:14:06.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">We have about 10 more minutes so I'm glad</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:08.600" data-start="00:14:08.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">that we have a little bit of extra time to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:10.640" data-start="00:14:10.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">answer the questions because we have a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.740" data-start="00:14:13.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">more. All right, I'm gonna switch to the next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:15.160" data-start="00:14:15.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">question we can come back to people reacting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:16.720" data-start="00:14:16.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">to what you just said a little bit later.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:17.440" data-start="00:14:17.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:20.640" data-start="00:14:20.640" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:23.760" data-start="00:14:23.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">are being negative about the fact that you're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:26.400" data-start="00:14:26.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">using Emacs, assuming that they just don't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:28.740" data-start="00:14:28.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">know or have misconceptions about Emacs and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:30.340" data-start="00:14:30.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">nothing malicious? If so,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:32.220" data-start="00:14:32.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">how do you handle these kinds of people?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:40.640" data-start="00:14:40.640" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:42.720" data-start="00:14:42.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">like, oh, Jeremy's going to talk about Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:45.900" data-start="00:14:45.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">again. So it's not entirely...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:50.600" data-start="00:14:50.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">Maybe it's a little dismissive,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:56.840" data-start="00:14:56.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I don't actually care because like it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:00.160" data-start="00:15:00.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">like being, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:02.360" data-start="00:15:02.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's like being made fun of for using a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:03.560" data-start="00:15:03.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">particular type of pen.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:05.680" data-start="00:15:05.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like goal is to write something,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.080" data-start="00:15:09.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">right? And I'm using a pen that gives me joy.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:11.740" data-start="00:15:11.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">When I talk with my mentees,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:14.240" data-start="00:15:14.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">like I want to meet them exactly where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:16.980" data-start="00:15:16.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">they're at with their code and like what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:20.860" data-start="00:15:20.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">they're comfortable with and help them remove</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:23.100" data-start="00:15:23.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">any of that potential like inadequacy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:27.800" data-start="00:15:27.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">sense of inadequacy or imposter syndrome or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.980" data-start="00:15:32.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">any of those things because The goal is to,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.380" data-start="00:15:36.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">for me, to be better at computering.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:39.800" data-start="00:15:39.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like hop on my computer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:45.060" data-start="00:15:45.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want to be able to use it at a speed of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:47.680" data-start="00:15:47.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">thought that doesn't introduce a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:50.660" data-start="00:15:50.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">friction. Another speaker talked about that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:54.000" data-start="00:15:54.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">using HyperBowl and a couple of plugins to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:55.260" data-start="00:15:55.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">write stream of consciousness.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:57.980" data-start="00:15:57.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">And that was an important consideration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:01.060" data-start="00:16:01.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want my text editor to flow with me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:02.160" data-start="00:16:02.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so I'm like, well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:03.560" data-start="00:16:03.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs flows with me smooth.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:08.220" data-start="00:16:08.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like you can deride it all you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:09.960" data-start="00:16:09.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">It doesn't thread very well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:12.080" data-start="00:16:12.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it's just me on this machine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:14.120" data-start="00:16:14.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">I don't need it to overly thread,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.720" data-start="00:16:15.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">at least for my use cases.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:22.340" data-start="00:16:22.340" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:25.800" data-start="00:16:25.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">just said. And it's very easy to dismiss</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:28.860" data-start="00:16:28.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">stuff like Vim or Emacs based on the very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:31.260" data-start="00:16:31.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">trite sentences that everyone use.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:32.440" data-start="00:16:32.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">But at the end of the day,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:33.540" data-start="00:16:33.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">I really like what you said.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:36.280" data-start="00:16:36.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">Those are just pencil that we're using to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:39.000" data-start="00:16:39.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">express ourselves. And we're doing something</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:41.820" data-start="00:16:41.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">a little more fancy than just writing words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:43.680" data-start="00:16:43.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">on a page. But ultimately,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:46.480" data-start="00:16:46.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's just text at the very bottom.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:48.560" data-start="00:16:48.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">So whatever helps us write this test,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:50.540" data-start="00:16:50.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">this text more easily,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:52.960" data-start="00:16:52.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, it's always good.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:56.680" data-start="00:16:56.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Yeah. All right. Moving on to the next</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:59.360" data-start="00:16:59.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">question. I love the attitudes and worldview</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:02.980" data-start="00:17:02.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">that infuse your blog post and your talk this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:05.400" data-start="00:17:05.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">weekend. Learn something every week.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:08.400" data-start="00:17:08.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's cumulative. English class was the most</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:11.319" data-start="00:17:11.319" data-video="qanda-mentor">important. What other advice do you have and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:13.680" data-start="00:17:13.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">how is it generalizable to those of us who</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:14.440" data-start="00:17:14.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">are not devs?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:26.280" data-start="00:17:26.280" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:29.140" data-start="00:17:29.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">for me, and I talked about this in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:34.700" data-start="00:17:34.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">writing Q&A, is switching my blog from a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:38.160" data-start="00:17:38.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">topical 1 about role-playing games and board</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:43.320" data-start="00:17:43.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">games into anything that I think I want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:47.220" data-start="00:17:47.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">write. And that shift happened about the time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:50.380" data-start="00:17:50.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">that I was really exploring using Emacs for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:54.060" data-start="00:17:54.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">writing. And so previously I had,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:57.860" data-start="00:17:57.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">I would write blog posts in Markdown using,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:00.560" data-start="00:18:00.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">or I would write it in the web interface.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:06.820" data-start="00:18:06.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">And getting to the point where my writing was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:08.480" data-start="00:18:08.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">the same as my coding,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:12.040" data-start="00:18:12.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">was the same as my RSS consumption,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.060" data-start="00:18:15.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">was the same of a lot of these things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:21.260" data-start="00:18:21.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">freed up my general interests so that they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:23.860" data-start="00:18:23.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">all can kind of play in that space.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:27.660" data-start="00:18:27.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">So and that's the, I think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:33.080" data-start="00:18:33.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">Feynman said, like, his notes are his</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:35.860" data-start="00:18:35.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">thoughts. It's not him thinking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:38.480" data-start="00:18:38.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, they are him thinking as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:40.680" data-start="00:18:40.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">So it's really framing it that way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:44.180" data-start="00:18:44.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then for not devs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:49.060" data-start="00:18:49.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">My daughter has been doing screenwriting and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:53.180" data-start="00:18:53.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">she just had her school license for the tool</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:54.720" data-start="00:18:54.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">that they use for writing screenplays.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:57.400" data-start="00:18:57.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">She had to pay for it on her own.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:59.540" data-start="00:18:59.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I was like, hey, let's take a look at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:01.000" data-start="00:19:01.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs. There's a package for this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:03.320" data-start="00:19:03.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">Maybe it makes sense to you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:09.520" data-start="00:19:09.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I think the, really to summarize it is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:12.280" data-start="00:19:12.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">like the broad curiosity in like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:14.320" data-start="00:19:14.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">I have a liberal arts degree,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:20.920" data-start="00:19:20.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">I have barely any computer science classwork</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:23.940" data-start="00:19:23.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">practice. I have a lot of practical</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:26.200" data-start="00:19:26.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">experience doing software development,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:28.320" data-start="00:19:28.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">but theory is minimal.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:32.400" data-start="00:19:32.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">Instead, I look to things like Lord of the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:35.340" data-start="00:19:35.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">Rings or role-playing games or poetry or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:40.520" data-start="00:19:40.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">history or whatever and be curious and Then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:47.260" data-start="00:19:47.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">be playful The introduction of git locally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:51.060" data-start="00:19:51.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">where I can just have a Git repo means my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:56.960" data-start="00:19:56.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">text is recoverable. I don't,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:59.060" data-start="00:19:59.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">I can play. I'll just break it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:00.320" data-start="00:20:00.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'll change it. It's software,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:02.860" data-start="00:20:02.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">let it be soft. It's not hard.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:05.740" data-start="00:20:05.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">It can be hard to work with it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:08.080" data-start="00:20:08.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">but let it be soft. Let it be pruned,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:09.780" data-start="00:20:09.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">let it go away, let it die,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:11.200" data-start="00:20:11.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">let it come back.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:16.360" data-start="00:20:16.360" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:20.980" data-start="00:20:20.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, I've already talked about my past as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:23.680" data-start="00:20:23.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">an English major in 1 of the EmacsConf talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:26.520" data-start="00:20:26.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">but just like you, I don't have a comp sci</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:30.140" data-start="00:20:30.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">education. I just started with needing a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:32.120" data-start="00:20:32.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">better pen, and that was about 10 years ago.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:36.660" data-start="00:20:36.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">And now I find myself hosting Emacs Cons,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:38.760" data-start="00:20:38.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it was a very incremental process,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:40.160" data-start="00:20:40.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">a very cumulative process,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:42.720" data-start="00:20:42.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">to reuse the word that we used before.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:48.480" data-start="00:20:48.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">And What I also like about people outside of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:49.640" data-start="00:20:49.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">CompSight using Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:53.300" data-start="00:20:53.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">and we've got plenty of such examples in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:54.940" data-start="00:20:54.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">presentations we've had this year,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:57.720" data-start="00:20:57.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">but also last year, is that you get so many</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:00.540" data-start="00:21:00.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">different windows into how people are using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:03.400" data-start="00:21:03.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs, and it kind of harks back to what I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:06.340" data-start="00:21:06.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">was saying before about Emacs being a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:08.380" data-start="00:21:08.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">platform with many horizontal packages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:10.560" data-start="00:21:10.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">permitting any kind of workflow imaginable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:13.580" data-start="00:21:13.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">and some people are going to gravitate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:16.280" data-start="00:21:16.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">towards old mode. I think it was your sister</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:18.520" data-start="00:21:18.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">that you mentioned that was looking into</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:20.760" data-start="00:21:20.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">packages for writing screenplays.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:23.220" data-start="00:21:23.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">Well, we've got such a thing in Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:26.260" data-start="00:21:26.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, a screenplay is just a monospace font</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:27.900" data-start="00:21:27.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">with some fancy formatting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:29.300" data-start="00:21:29.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's not very complicated.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:32.460" data-start="00:21:32.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">And if you can get behind,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:36.280" data-start="00:21:36.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, someone using such a stable format</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:38.480" data-start="00:21:38.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">for writing screenplay with many rules,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:40.680" data-start="00:21:40.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">but ultimately all the screenplay look the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:42.520" data-start="00:21:42.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">same, well, Emacs is kind of just the same.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:45.060" data-start="00:21:45.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's about standardizing the way you edit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:47.760" data-start="00:21:47.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">text. So I think your sister was already half</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:51.420" data-start="00:21:51.420" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:52.720" data-start="00:21:52.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm trying to sell her on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:53.320" data-start="00:21:53.320" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:56.200" data-start="00:21:56.200" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:58.140" data-start="00:21:58.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">day and was like, I forget that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:01.360" data-start="00:22:01.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like she was playing with a stage manager</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:03.420" data-start="00:22:03.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">programming thing or like have a little</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:04.640" data-start="00:22:04.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">avatars moving around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:11.280" data-start="00:22:11.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so she's got a predisposition to like the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:15.620" data-start="00:22:15.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">craft of things. And I think that's another</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:18.320" data-start="00:22:18.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">aspect is like, I'm not,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:21.080" data-start="00:22:21.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, I appreciate science.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:23.040" data-start="00:22:23.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm here for a scientific approach,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:27.940" data-start="00:22:27.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I also Really enjoy the craft of things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:32.500" data-start="00:22:32.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">Playing with it Like this is my playground.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:36.000" data-start="00:22:36.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">I love kind of hacking on it and looking at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:39.160" data-start="00:22:39.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">packages and Seeing how I might use it pick</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:42.120" data-start="00:22:42.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">it up for a little bit and then maybe I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:42.880" data-start="00:22:42.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">forget about it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:47.940" data-start="00:22:47.940" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:49.860" data-start="00:22:49.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">finish. Oh, sorry plasma.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:51.380" data-start="00:22:51.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">Oh, sorry. I thought he was someone on Mumble</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:54.640" data-start="00:22:54.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">talking to me. I'm actually going to have to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:56.200" data-start="00:22:56.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">be sorry because we only have about 50</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:58.000" data-start="00:22:58.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">seconds until we move on to the next talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:59.600" data-start="00:22:59.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">But please, Plasma Strike,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:01.120" data-start="00:23:01.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">If you want to ask your question to Jeremy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:02.720" data-start="00:23:02.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">by all means, stay in the room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:04.120" data-start="00:23:04.120" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:07.640" data-start="00:23:07.640" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:09.440" data-start="00:23:09.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">put this later on the talk page.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:12.440" data-start="00:23:12.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">So Jeremy, I'll have to say bye now because I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:13.660" data-start="00:23:13.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">need to prepare the next room.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:16.320" data-start="00:23:16.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">But It was lovely talking with you and thank</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:17.040" data-start="00:23:17.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">you for all your answers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:19.040" data-start="00:23:19.040" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:21.220" data-start="00:23:21.220" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#qanda-mentor" class="subtitle" data-start="00:23:26.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">[00:23:26.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:23:26.400" title="" data-video="qanda-mentor">Start of section to review</span></p>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:23:26.400" data-start="00:23:26.400" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:28.740" data-start="00:23:28.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's not... It's like when you change the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:30.860" data-start="00:23:30.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">file management, you just change very,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:33.480" data-start="00:23:33.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">very small amounts of what exactly you need,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:38.040" data-start="00:23:38.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">you want to change. Like you go from text</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:43.440" data-start="00:23:43.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">editing to your file manager,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:44.720" data-start="00:23:44.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">you're not changing your theme,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:46.680" data-start="00:23:46.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">you're not changing your font.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:49.940" data-start="00:23:49.940" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:52.360" data-start="00:23:52.360" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:54.340" data-start="00:23:54.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">your emails, you use your bookmarks in your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:59.380" data-start="00:23:59.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">org-mod documents, you use it in E-dub,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:02.460" data-start="00:24:02.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">W-W buffers if you use that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:06.760" data-start="00:24:06.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it's just the, Yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:10.080" data-start="00:24:10.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's just the least amount of Incremental</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:10.940" data-start="00:24:10.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">changes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:14.620" data-start="00:24:14.620" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:18.480" data-start="00:24:18.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">the Reducing friction like turn off editing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:22.280" data-start="00:24:22.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">or not editing, but auto correct while you're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:25.440" data-start="00:24:25.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">typing, it's absolutely spot on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:29.800" data-start="00:24:29.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">You're wanting to get whatever is flowing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:31.280" data-start="00:24:31.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">needs to keep flowing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:33.700" data-start="00:24:33.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">like as a programmer or as a creative,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:38.100" data-start="00:24:38.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">anytime I can hit flow is my goal.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:42.240" data-start="00:24:42.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so paying attention to what removes flow</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:48.480" data-start="00:24:48.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">or hinders it or saps energy and that unified</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:52.800" data-start="00:24:52.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">environment of Emacs is really helpful to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:57.260" data-start="00:24:57.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">maintain that. So yeah.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:02.300" data-start="00:25:02.300" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:04.040" data-start="00:25:04.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">you get some of that, then you're like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:06.420" data-start="00:25:06.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">well, yeah, it's important,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:09.320" data-start="00:25:09.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">but this is like the last thing I care about.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:14.280" data-start="00:25:14.280" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:19.700" data-start="00:25:19.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">Yeah, there's a quote that I love called,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:22.940" data-start="00:25:22.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">I forget the author. It's,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:30.060" data-start="00:25:30.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">there is a connection between slowness and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:33.960" data-start="00:25:33.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">remembering and fastness and forgetting.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:39.680" data-start="00:25:39.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">And the slowness is an interesting,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:43.520" data-start="00:25:43.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">like it's, I am moving fast in Emacs because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:46.020" data-start="00:25:46.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">I've forgotten how I'm doing it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:47.920" data-start="00:25:47.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">I just do it now, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:52.120" data-start="00:25:52.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then the slowness of like being in my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:57.540" data-start="00:25:57.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">thought and staying on that stream is where I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:01.700" data-start="00:26:01.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">want to be and ride whatever that pathway is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:07.540" data-start="00:26:07.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">And a text editor is still hard to do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:10.260" data-start="00:26:10.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">because if I were using a pen and paper it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:11.600" data-start="00:26:11.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">more cumbersome to auto-edit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:18.620" data-start="00:26:18.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">But I can't get it out without losing my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.180" data-start="00:26:21.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">thinking. And so I ended up having to type</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.440" data-start="00:26:21.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:25.440" data-start="00:26:25.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:26.600" data-start="00:26:26.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">using, well, recording.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:29.440" data-start="00:26:29.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">Some other people are using dictation for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:31.760" data-start="00:26:31.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">this to just get the blur out of the ideas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:35.280" data-start="00:26:35.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">and you can go back and glean some of that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:36.200" data-start="00:26:36.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">stuff out of it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:41.320" data-start="00:26:41.320" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:44.760" data-start="00:26:44.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">quotes or epigraphs is I will almost always</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:47.760" data-start="00:26:47.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">turn on dictation because I got a book in 1</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:52.020" data-start="00:26:52.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">hand. So I'm like, on goes the typing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:56.640" data-start="00:26:56.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">And yeah, that is, there's a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:59.900" data-start="00:26:59.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm really thankful that that exists as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:01.260" data-start="00:27:01.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like my mother is blind.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:05.020" data-start="00:27:05.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so having that helps her and me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:08.560" data-start="00:27:08.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">communicate Through text because we're both</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:12.900" data-start="00:27:12.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">able to appreciate it And use it in a way</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:15.480" data-start="00:27:15.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">that is accessible for both of us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:19.120" data-start="00:27:19.120" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:23.100" data-start="00:27:23.100" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:25.160" data-start="00:27:25.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">which will allow you to both of us.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:25.400" data-start="00:27:25.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">There's the ElfieTube package which will</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:28.320" data-start="00:27:28.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">allow you to subscribe to a YouTube channel</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:32.500" data-start="00:27:32.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">and then download the subtitles and give you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:36.760" data-start="00:27:36.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">remote control access to the MPV player to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:37.700" data-start="00:27:37.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">watch the YouTube thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:41.420" data-start="00:27:41.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">And considering you have a really big</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:44.580" data-start="00:27:44.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">subtitle thing that you can click at the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:45.480" data-start="00:27:45.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">various different places,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:47.860" data-start="00:27:47.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's really surprising about how different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:49.300" data-start="00:27:49.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">that makes YouTube feel.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:50.680" data-start="00:27:50.680" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:54.140" data-start="00:27:54.140" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:57.660" data-start="00:27:57.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">if you've used it why would you never have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:59.160" data-start="00:27:59.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">thought about that before because it's...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:00.720" data-start="00:28:00.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">Right. It's even better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:04.840" data-start="00:28:04.840" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:10.080" data-start="00:28:10.080" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:11.580" data-start="00:28:11.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">when I'm skimming through stuff for Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:13.740" data-start="00:28:13.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">News. But for books specifically,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:18.420" data-start="00:28:18.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">I often use Google Lens to just capture the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:21.900" data-start="00:28:21.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">text and copy it so that I don't have to deal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:24.140" data-start="00:28:24.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">with recognition errors or whatever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:25.760" data-start="00:28:25.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">really useful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:31.780" data-start="00:28:31.780" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:35.980" data-start="00:28:35.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">games and the tabular data that is in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:38.940" data-start="00:28:38.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">role-playing books is never in correct,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:43.160" data-start="00:28:43.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">like copy it out. And so I was like this is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:46.260" data-start="00:28:46.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">really annoying And I ended up taking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:47.720" data-start="00:28:47.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">screenshots on my machine,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:50.280" data-start="00:28:50.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">running Tesseract to pipe it in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:53.480" data-start="00:28:53.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">and then using Emacs to like edit it because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:57.940" data-start="00:28:57.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">Tesseract adheres to the column format that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:00.520" data-start="00:29:00.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm looking for. And I'm really thankful that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:05.680" data-start="00:29:05.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">we're at a place where the OCR is in good</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:09.720" data-start="00:29:09.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">shape. That's part of my day job is working</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:14.180" data-start="00:29:14.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">on some old documents that OCR is good,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:18.100" data-start="00:29:18.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">but not great because of like their 19th</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:23.720" data-start="00:29:23.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">century documents, but having that ability to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:28.080" data-start="00:29:28.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">me is really powerful because we're gonna be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:32.580" data-start="00:29:32.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">able to share that text And also then once</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:35.860" data-start="00:29:35.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's understood in what it's ASCII or UTF-8</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:39.000" data-start="00:29:39.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">encoding is, it can be translated as well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:41.960" data-start="00:29:41.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">So we can make it even more generally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:46.480" data-start="00:29:46.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">available, which I think is a nice thing to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:46.720" data-start="00:29:46.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">have.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:51.820" data-start="00:29:51.820" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:54.000" data-start="00:29:54.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">since that's something that I'm very much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:55.940" data-start="00:29:55.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">interested in figuring out how to facilitate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:56.980" data-start="00:29:56.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">in the Emacs community.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:00.520" data-start="00:30:00.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">Other people have been working on kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:03.440" data-start="00:30:03.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">remote mentoring initiatives with Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:07.640" data-start="00:30:07.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">Buddy. And there are meetups as well that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:09.140" data-start="00:30:09.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">kind of get that sense of like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:10.680" data-start="00:30:10.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, what people are doing things and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:12.040" data-start="00:30:12.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">then somebody can look over their shoulder</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:14.060" data-start="00:30:14.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">and say, hey, have you ever thought about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:15.060" data-start="00:30:15.060" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:17.780" data-start="00:30:17.780" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:20.320" data-start="00:30:20.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">suggest specifically in the context of this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:23.180" data-start="00:30:23.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">kind of mentoring over a distance?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:25.680" data-start="00:30:25.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Any chance you've thought about it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:30.800" data-start="00:30:30.800" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:32.600" data-start="00:30:32.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">handful of people reach out to me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:37.700" data-start="00:30:37.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">Most often we start with email and every so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:38.980" data-start="00:30:38.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">often it'll be like, hey,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:44.340" data-start="00:30:44.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">let's hop on some kind of video or audio,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:47.320" data-start="00:30:47.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">even just done phone calls.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:53.140" data-start="00:30:53.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">Yeah, I haven't done any of the like shared</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:57.220" data-start="00:30:57.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">buffer stuff. I know like at work we have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:59.700" data-start="00:30:59.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">replit where we can use that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:02.500" data-start="00:31:02.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">Seeing the presentation on CDRT,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:04.440" data-start="00:31:04.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">I was like, oh, that's really great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:10.760" data-start="00:31:10.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">But what I found is being able to see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:15.280" data-start="00:31:15.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">someone, I don't get to see them typing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:17.640" data-start="00:31:17.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I get to see the results of what they're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:18.840" data-start="00:31:18.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">doing on the computer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:22.840" data-start="00:31:22.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">You know paying attention to that is the big</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:26.040" data-start="00:31:26.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">1 to help them think of a different way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:28.940" data-start="00:31:28.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">Depending on where they're at when they're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:32.960" data-start="00:31:32.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">writing if they are like at a pause point,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:35.160" data-start="00:31:35.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">if I'm at my best, I'll be like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:37.920" data-start="00:31:37.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">so what are you thinking?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:40.640" data-start="00:31:40.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">Where are you stuck? Cause maybe they're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:43.040" data-start="00:31:43.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">trying to navigate somewhere and that starts</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:46.500" data-start="00:31:46.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">to create a point for a conversation of like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:48.280" data-start="00:31:48.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">how do I go from here to there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:57.340" data-start="00:31:57.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so it's looking for those moments is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:58.840" data-start="00:31:58.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">where I try to operate.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:03.740" data-start="00:32:03.740" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:05.380" data-start="00:32:05.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">so there's kind of like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:06.760" data-start="00:32:06.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">how do you go from here to there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:08.000" data-start="00:32:08.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">And sometimes even the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:12.380" data-start="00:32:12.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">what there should I be going for is a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:15.060" data-start="00:32:15.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">challenge, right? Because especially with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:16.480" data-start="00:32:16.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs newbies, they might not necessarily</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:19.340" data-start="00:32:19.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">know what's possible or what's nearby in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:21.200" data-start="00:32:21.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">terms of what their current knowledge is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:23.760" data-start="00:32:23.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">And that's an interesting thing to map out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:25.960" data-start="00:32:25.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">Is that something that you've thought about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:29.020" data-start="00:32:29.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">and as you're conversing with all these</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:29.280" data-start="00:32:29.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">people?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:37.680" data-start="00:32:37.680" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:38.720" data-start="00:32:38.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">talk, I talked about this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:41.240" data-start="00:32:41.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">I think in the, I did in the talk where it's,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:46.320" data-start="00:32:46.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">I need to jump between the test and the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:50.900" data-start="00:32:50.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">implementation. And since 2005,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:56.200" data-start="00:32:56.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">I've had that. And I watch folks not have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:57.880" data-start="00:32:57.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">that. I'm just like, Oh,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:00.380" data-start="00:33:00.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">my goodness, like there's a convention in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:02.500" data-start="00:33:02.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">language we work in. Let's get that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:04.080" data-start="00:33:04.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">installed. Let's get it going.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:07.600" data-start="00:33:07.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like that's 1 thing, that's 1 access I know</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:11.740" data-start="00:33:11.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">they're gonna go to. Another 1 is the jump to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:14.280" data-start="00:33:14.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">definition. And I've never gotten like C</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:16.680" data-start="00:33:16.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">tags. I haven't really spent time on that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:18.600" data-start="00:33:18.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">but with the advent of LSP,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:21.040" data-start="00:33:21.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">it works a lot better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:24.520" data-start="00:33:24.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so I try to get people to use that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:30.200" data-start="00:33:30.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">And what I've noticed weirdly is like VS</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:34.200" data-start="00:33:34.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">code, it doesn't work as well as I would have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:36.340" data-start="00:33:36.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">thought. And there's lots of like errors and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:38.100" data-start="00:33:38.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">warnings popping up in the bottom corner.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:41.120" data-start="00:33:41.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I'm like, well, you gotta pay attention to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:45.640" data-start="00:33:45.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">that. But I try not to get into anybody's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:47.720" data-start="00:33:47.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">business about like, I'm like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:48.900" data-start="00:33:48.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">maybe we could fix that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:50.020" data-start="00:33:50.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">Maybe we can clean it up,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:51.740" data-start="00:33:51.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it's your, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:54.440" data-start="00:33:54.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's your car you're driving.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:56.320" data-start="00:33:56.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm just long for a ride.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:57.620" data-start="00:33:57.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's safe, we're fine.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:01.360" data-start="00:34:01.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">So yeah, that jumped to definition.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:07.940" data-start="00:34:07.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then the, I mean, search in project,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:10.080" data-start="00:34:10.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">like everybody understanding that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:15.219" data-start="00:34:15.219" data-video="qanda-mentor">But I feel that the, like I mentioned in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:17.980" data-start="00:34:17.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">talk, the advent of orderless is just huge.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:21.400" data-start="00:34:21.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">I did not realize how much I loved it because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:24.159" data-start="00:34:24.159" data-video="qanda-mentor">I don't have to think about things and can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:28.080" data-start="00:34:28.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">have slightly more forgiving default</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:34.340" data-start="00:34:34.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">searches. Yeah, it's hard.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:39.159" data-start="00:34:39.159" data-video="qanda-mentor">The principles of organizing 10 things versus</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:41.040" data-start="00:34:41.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">100 versus 1,000 versus 10,000</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:44.440" data-start="00:34:44.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">are just, they're not the same.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:52.360" data-start="00:34:52.360" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:54.320" data-start="00:34:54.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">you skip off of Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:00.920" data-start="00:35:00.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">Org Mode, Hyperbole is if you go into any of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:03.680" data-start="00:35:03.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">those with the mindset of I'm going to master</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:05.080" data-start="00:35:05.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">it all before I use it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:06.640" data-start="00:35:06.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">That's not going to work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:13.660" data-start="00:35:13.660" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:14.760" data-start="00:35:14.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">I started because I'm like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:16.720" data-start="00:35:16.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">I don't need to organize my life.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:20.460" data-start="00:35:20.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">I need to like type. And then that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:24.520" data-start="00:35:24.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">yes, incremental. What did I find helpful?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:28.580" data-start="00:35:28.580" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:30.860" data-start="00:35:30.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">but you have to look at them as more of just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:34.640" data-start="00:35:34.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">I have a whole bunch of tools available to me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:39.140" data-start="00:35:39.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">and I'll just pick them up as I have a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:42.480" data-start="00:35:42.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">problem and as I, and as the tool can be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:44.440" data-start="00:35:44.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">useful for this problem and incrementally.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:47.700" data-start="00:35:47.700" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:54.760" data-start="00:35:54.760" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:56.180" data-start="00:35:56.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">when when I'm mentoring people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:58.440" data-start="00:35:58.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">I have to take a step back and say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:00.520" data-start="00:36:00.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">OK, what are we with the note taking thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:01.640" data-start="00:36:01.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">that you mentioned in your talk.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:03.120" data-start="00:36:03.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">How do you like to take notes?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:04.840" data-start="00:36:04.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">How do you like to keep track of the things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:06.480" data-start="00:36:06.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">that you want to work on when you have an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:07.540" data-start="00:36:07.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">idea? Where does it go?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:10.320" data-start="00:36:10.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">Because if you improve that practice,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:12.840" data-start="00:36:12.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">and especially if you can sneak some literate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:14.540" data-start="00:36:14.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">programming in without them really noticing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:17.860" data-start="00:36:17.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">then it becomes the thing that they can use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:18.900" data-start="00:36:18.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">to learn more efficiently.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:23.200" data-start="00:36:23.200" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:26.600" data-start="00:36:26.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">I wasn't presenting at this seminar,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:30.560" data-start="00:36:30.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I attended it and it was a crash course</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:31.800" data-start="00:36:31.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">in command line tools.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:35.520" data-start="00:36:35.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I didn't, I mean, I went there to listen</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:38.660" data-start="00:36:38.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">and there was a point where the people were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:40.560" data-start="00:36:40.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">like, I use this command line tool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:42.360" data-start="00:36:42.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm not a programmer, I'm a librarian,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:45.040" data-start="00:36:45.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm an archivist. I use it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:47.080" data-start="00:36:47.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm like, great, I'm gonna remember this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:49.640" data-start="00:36:49.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then I forget about it and I might use it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:54.340" data-start="00:36:54.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">6 months from now. And so I tried to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:56.880" data-start="00:36:56.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">encourage everybody, like come up with,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:00.580" data-start="00:37:00.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">like you have a degree in knowledge and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:02.320" data-start="00:37:02.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">information, management and organization,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:06.160" data-start="00:37:06.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">introspect, right? Spend some time on it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:09.740" data-start="00:37:09.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">Think about what is a way that I can do this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:13.180" data-start="00:37:13.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">and ask questions to get to the point where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:18.960" data-start="00:37:18.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">you can create a discoverable inventory of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:22.500" data-start="00:37:22.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">the tools you've used and what that means.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:26.160" data-start="00:37:26.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">And my answer was, I use literate programming</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:30.800" data-start="00:37:30.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">or I shove it in my bin directory in GitHub</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:34.080" data-start="00:37:34.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">and like, I don't know if I'll remember it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:35.860" data-start="00:37:35.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I can go there every now and then and be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:37.120" data-start="00:37:37.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">like, oh yeah, that command.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:44.220" data-start="00:37:44.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">So note taking is the most critical component</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:46.620" data-start="00:37:46.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">of any number of work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:51.960" data-start="00:37:51.960" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:54.000" data-start="00:37:54.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">externalize some of all this mentoring</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:57.520" data-start="00:37:57.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">insight and kind of like this choose your own</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:37:59.700" data-start="00:37:59.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">adventure thing, where the person says,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:01.200" data-start="00:38:01.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">OK, this is what I got at the moment.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:03.460" data-start="00:38:03.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then through a series of diagnostic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:05.740" data-start="00:38:05.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">questions, we can figure out what hurts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:08.040" data-start="00:38:08.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">right? Where is the thing that they would</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:08.980" data-start="00:38:08.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">like to learn more about?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:09.960" data-start="00:38:09.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then, okay, if that hurts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:12.620" data-start="00:38:12.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">try this and keep that manageable.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:15.720" data-start="00:38:15.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">And if there's only a way to also be able to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:17.280" data-start="00:38:17.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">capture each person's state,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:19.360" data-start="00:38:19.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">the things that they know about and have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:20.980" data-start="00:38:20.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">absorbed into their habits.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:22.800" data-start="00:38:22.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">So you can say, right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:25.440" data-start="00:38:25.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, my recommendation for someone who's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:28.580" data-start="00:38:28.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">brand new to org is not the same as somebody</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:30.060" data-start="00:38:30.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">who's like, okay, they've got their agendas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:31.400" data-start="00:38:31.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">and everything set up already.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:33.680" data-start="00:38:33.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Just how do we represent that as like WISPs?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:39.520" data-start="00:38:39.520" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:43.180" data-start="00:38:43.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">I like the one-on-one conversations and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:47.480" data-start="00:38:47.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">discovery. And I think that's the part where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:51.980" data-start="00:38:51.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">you're looking at, you're asking about how do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:55.920" data-start="00:38:55.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">we make the process and like I heard,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:38:58.860" data-start="00:38:58.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">like how do we help equip those who want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:01.560" data-start="00:39:01.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">mentor as well, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:05.900" data-start="00:39:05.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">Making that, reducing the barrier in a way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:06.040" data-start="00:39:06.040" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:08.240" data-start="00:39:08.240" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:10.440" data-start="00:39:10.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">the conversation and the fact that it is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:12.080" data-start="00:39:12.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">really unique for each person,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:14.760" data-start="00:39:14.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">each situation that comes up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:18.480" data-start="00:39:18.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">I suspect what it just comes down to is more</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:21.560" data-start="00:39:21.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">like capturing the good stuff of each</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:23.160" data-start="00:39:23.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">mentoring session or whatever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:25.840" data-start="00:39:25.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">Maybe it's getting the mentees to write very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:27.700" data-start="00:39:27.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">short blog posts about what they learned this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:28.780" data-start="00:39:28.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">week or whatever else.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:30.900" data-start="00:39:30.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then, oh, yeah, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:33.700" data-start="00:39:33.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">we ran into the same problem 3 months ago.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:36.280" data-start="00:39:36.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">Let me go look it up. And then that becomes a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:37.080" data-start="00:39:37.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">reusable segment.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:41.280" data-start="00:39:41.280" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:46.420" data-start="00:39:46.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">they tried to encourage the mentors to say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:49.320" data-start="00:39:49.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">like write a blog posts for the mentees.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:39:57.160" data-start="00:39:57.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">And that was, some of them did,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:01.980" data-start="00:40:01.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it was intimidating because like they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:03.260" data-start="00:40:03.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">didn't wanna, I don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:06.900" data-start="00:40:06.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">Are we enculturated in an education system</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:09.800" data-start="00:40:09.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">where we can't get it wrong or we need to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:11.760" data-start="00:40:11.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">look like we're more of an expert than we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:15.720" data-start="00:40:15.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">are? I don't know. I have a lot of like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:17.720" data-start="00:40:17.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm a middle aged white guy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:20.140" data-start="00:40:20.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">I've got a lot of background and privilege in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:25.440" data-start="00:40:25.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">my career. So like, it's not as scary to put</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:28.620" data-start="00:40:28.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">something forward for myself as it might be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:31.080" data-start="00:40:31.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">as like a woman in tech or a minority in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:35.400" data-start="00:40:35.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">tech, because that's a different place.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:38.900" data-start="00:40:38.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I want to really get done with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:40.760" data-start="00:40:40.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">I don't like that at all.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:43.820" data-start="00:40:43.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I would love our, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:46.640" data-start="00:40:46.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">just write. And it doesn't have to be public,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:48.540" data-start="00:40:48.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">right? You don't have to make it public,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:51.880" data-start="00:40:51.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">but if you make it discoverable to yourself,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:40:58.320" data-start="00:40:58.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">that's the big thing. And 1 of my coworkers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:04.840" data-start="00:41:04.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">She doesn't blog, but she definitely has a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:07.200" data-start="00:41:07.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">large knowledge base of stuff that she</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:08.980" data-start="00:41:08.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">references because she's pulling out all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:10.520" data-start="00:41:10.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">kinds of stuff and I'm like whatever you're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:11.120" data-start="00:41:11.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">doing is working.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:17.920" data-start="00:41:17.920" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:23.680" data-start="00:41:23.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">There's a good opportunity with the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:25.680" data-start="00:41:25.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">conference to accomplish this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:28.420" data-start="00:41:28.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">So like if you make like a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:31.640" data-start="00:41:31.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">because 1 of the things with it is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:36.600" data-start="00:41:36.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">Sasha, you do a really good job of using all.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:38.800" data-start="00:41:38.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">You're the 1 who has the Emacs buffer with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:39.780" data-start="00:41:39.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">the time on it, right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:41.820" data-start="00:41:41.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">Is that your screen that's being recorded for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:45.860" data-start="00:41:45.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">that? Because you have a really good example</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:50.400" data-start="00:41:50.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">of a really consolidated emacs workflow that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:53.440" data-start="00:41:53.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">works really good with the Emacs conference</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:41:56.520" data-start="00:41:56.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">so if you had like a page that described how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:00.100" data-start="00:42:00.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">you did all that stuff in the emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:04.280" data-start="00:42:04.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">conference like on that and then we then you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:06.140" data-start="00:42:06.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">did even more stuff with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:09.560" data-start="00:42:09.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like you do the org mode file that you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:12.140" data-start="00:42:12.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">just put straight into your agenda for your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:14.720" data-start="00:42:14.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">time zone. I used that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:17.540" data-start="00:42:17.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">That was really nice, just because it allowed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:19.600" data-start="00:42:19.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">me to reorganize and see how all the talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:21.580" data-start="00:42:21.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">would work together, and which ones I wanted</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:25.840" data-start="00:42:25.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">to do. You could add Org Mode to do tags with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:31.020" data-start="00:42:31.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">that, to say, plan to watch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:36.080" data-start="00:42:36.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want to re-watch but I have to skip it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:37.540" data-start="00:42:37.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">because there's another talk I'm watching,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:40.760" data-start="00:42:40.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, like a couple tags don't care about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:43.940" data-start="00:42:43.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">so that people can easily tag all the talks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:47.360" data-start="00:42:47.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">that they care about on top of that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:52.660" data-start="00:42:52.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then with, I'm going to try to email</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:54.660" data-start="00:42:54.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">these ideas on it too,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:42:57.980" data-start="00:42:57.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">but then you can also,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:00.940" data-start="00:43:00.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">you have the either pad questions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:03.960" data-start="00:43:03.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">you could put all those in org-mode documents</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:08.300" data-start="00:43:08.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">with crdt.el, post all those in the Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:11.400" data-start="00:43:11.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">conference and then people could use that to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:13.820" data-start="00:43:13.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">edit all the documents at the same time so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:15.160" data-start="00:43:15.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">then everybody's actually collaboratively</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:20.180" data-start="00:43:20.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">editing. And then people have all the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:24.520" data-start="00:43:24.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">scaffolding for if you do the Emacs meetings,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:27.760" data-start="00:43:27.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">buddy meetings, because they know exactly how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:29.820" data-start="00:43:29.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">to set it all up with that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:34.040" data-start="00:43:34.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then you combine it with any number of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:38.040" data-start="00:43:38.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">whatever chat video program so that people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:39.780" data-start="00:43:39.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">can talk and watch each other.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:45.420" data-start="00:43:45.420" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:48.920" data-start="00:43:48.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">infrastructure and I will capture the note</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:51.380" data-start="00:43:51.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">And maybe I can include a mini tutorial in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:53.460" data-start="00:43:53.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">the schedule org so that people can be like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:55.440" data-start="00:43:55.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">hey, by the way, you could refile these</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:43:58.860" data-start="00:43:58.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">things into your own org files or tag them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:01.520" data-start="00:44:01.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">and here's a list thingy that filters your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:03.420" data-start="00:44:03.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">agenda by your tag or whatever,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:04.940" data-start="00:44:04.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">it'll be fine. But it's,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:06.100" data-start="00:44:06.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, it's, it's kind of like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:09.640" data-start="00:44:09.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">it is, you're right. It is an opportunity to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:12.440" data-start="00:44:12.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">expose people to more things that they could</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:14.620" data-start="00:44:14.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">do in kind of a scaffolded way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:16.600" data-start="00:44:16.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">That's interesting stuff,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:18.780" data-start="00:44:18.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I, your point actually driving also going</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:21.180" data-start="00:44:21.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">back to previous parts of conversation about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:24.340" data-start="00:44:24.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's difficult for people to share.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:26.420" data-start="00:44:26.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">When you realize, like I keep telling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:28.380" data-start="00:44:28.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">everyone, hey, if you blog about Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:30.720" data-start="00:44:30.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">you'll not only learn things for yourself and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:31.440" data-start="00:44:31.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">make things more searchable,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:33.520" data-start="00:44:33.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">other people will come by and tell you even</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:34.840" data-start="00:44:34.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">better ways of doing things,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:36.940" data-start="00:44:36.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">which is something that always happens to me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:37.800" data-start="00:44:37.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">too, and I'm posting this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:38.400" data-start="00:44:38.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">Has that ever happened?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:39.960" data-start="00:44:39.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm sure that happens to you.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:45.020" data-start="00:44:45.020" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:49.360" data-start="00:44:49.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">yeah, Howard's presentation on the game</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:51.720" data-start="00:44:51.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">stuff. I'm like, I'm going to go explore that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:54.560" data-start="00:44:54.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">now. Because it's my little house.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:44:57.280" data-start="00:44:57.280" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:00.600" data-start="00:45:00.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">right? And kind of change people's perception</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:03.420" data-start="00:45:03.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">that, oh, blogging or sharing tutorials or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:05.460" data-start="00:45:05.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">whatever, that's then when you're an expert,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:06.340" data-start="00:45:06.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">when you're an experienced,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:09.480" data-start="00:45:09.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">to rather working out loud,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:11.520" data-start="00:45:11.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">thinking out loud, this is just that I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:12.800" data-start="00:45:12.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">learning along the way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:15.840" data-start="00:45:15.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">And it might not be the most efficient way to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:17.720" data-start="00:45:17.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">do things, but this is what I'm doing right</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:17.880" data-start="00:45:17.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:23.940" data-start="00:45:23.940" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:25.760" data-start="00:45:25.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">posted something and someone was like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:27.620" data-start="00:45:27.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">Oh yeah, this is, this would have you tried</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:30.060" data-start="00:45:30.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">this? Or I'm like, I didn't even know that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:32.440" data-start="00:45:32.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">existed. That makes this easier.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:37.540" data-start="00:45:37.540" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:38.860" data-start="00:45:38.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">very proud of it because it's clever.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:39.760" data-start="00:45:39.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then someone's like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:41.000" data-start="00:45:41.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">Oh yeah, there's a package for that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:42.720" data-start="00:45:42.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's called this. Right?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:43.660" data-start="00:45:43.660" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:49.380" data-start="00:45:49.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's just it's Yeah, it the fantastic part</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:54.140" data-start="00:45:54.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">it. I played Legos as a kid and me and my</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:45:55.760" data-start="00:45:55.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">friends would play Legos at the house.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:00.800" data-start="00:46:00.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">And Emacs has this like feeling of playing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:04.360" data-start="00:46:04.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">Legos with a group of people across the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:06.120" data-start="00:46:06.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">world. In fact, 1 of my current,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:09.080" data-start="00:46:09.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">well, 1 of my best friends now,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:14.040" data-start="00:46:14.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">we met a year ago. And it turns out we both</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:18.460" data-start="00:46:18.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">love Emacs. We talk every Thursday and we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:19.920" data-start="00:46:19.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">hang out and we talk poetry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:23.500" data-start="00:46:23.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">We talk Tom Petty. We talk Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:24.920" data-start="00:46:24.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">We talk software development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:26.840" data-start="00:46:26.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">He does Python. I do Ruby.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:29.860" data-start="00:46:29.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">Just anything and everything.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:36.660" data-start="00:46:36.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">And it's also we both are curious because we</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:38.100" data-start="00:46:38.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">don't use it the same way.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:43.920" data-start="00:46:43.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">And we like how we accomplish a task.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:47.020" data-start="00:46:47.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">I think that's the fascinating part to me is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:50.140" data-start="00:46:50.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">we each get to explore our way to interact</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:54.060" data-start="00:46:54.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">with the computer uniquely by whatever</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:55.860" data-start="00:46:55.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">pathways are in our brain.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:46:58.340" data-start="00:46:58.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">We see stuff, we pick it up,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:00.060" data-start="00:47:00.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">and we're like, that doesn't quite work for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:01.960" data-start="00:47:01.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">me, or, oh, that worked really well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:06.660" data-start="00:47:06.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">Fascinating, like, I don't know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:08.200" data-start="00:47:08.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">shared art installation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:13.740" data-start="00:47:13.740" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:15.460" data-start="00:47:15.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">resonate with. 1 of the things that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:18.820" data-start="00:47:18.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">fascinates me about Emacs is all these</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:21.220" data-start="00:47:21.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">people's configuration jobs are crystallized</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:24.960" data-start="00:47:24.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">workflows. And it's really when you talk to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:26.580" data-start="00:47:26.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">them and you see how they're using it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:29.200" data-start="00:47:29.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">and you understand a little bit of their</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:32.140" data-start="00:47:32.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">story and things that they need,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:33.160" data-start="00:47:33.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">the ideas they've had,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:35.640" data-start="00:47:35.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">that's really fascinating.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:37.580" data-start="00:47:37.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I think that's 1 of the things that makes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:39.840" data-start="00:47:39.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">it possible to be perpetually curious about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:42.660" data-start="00:47:42.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs, because it's not just the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:43.820" data-start="00:47:43.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, this is the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:45.520" data-start="00:47:45.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">these are all the Lego pieces there are,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:47.760" data-start="00:47:47.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">but you have this community of people who are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:50.320" data-start="00:47:50.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">using these Lego bricks in such fascinating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:53.440" data-start="00:47:53.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">ways and always inventing new things for it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:56.100" data-start="00:47:56.100" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:47:59.640" data-start="00:47:59.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">they show up. It's great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:03.200" data-start="00:48:03.200" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:06.040" data-start="00:48:06.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">that because it's like you can use Emacs with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:09.720" data-start="00:48:09.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">a thousand different customizations and then</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:12.340" data-start="00:48:12.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">you can interact with people who can each</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:16.540" data-start="00:48:16.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">also Use Emacs in a thousand different ways</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:17.520" data-start="00:48:17.520" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:20.200" data-start="00:48:20.200" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:21.720" data-start="00:48:21.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">that can go a thousand different ways.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:24.000" data-start="00:48:24.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">So it's like, it's like powering your</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:25.240" data-start="00:48:25.240" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:27.400" data-start="00:48:27.400" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:30.720" data-start="00:48:30.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">and like how different and how much you can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:31.560" data-start="00:48:31.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">learn from it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:38.480" data-start="00:48:38.480" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:41.920" data-start="00:48:41.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">that I have who went, he had originally</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:44.480" data-start="00:48:44.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">started in Vim and then did VS code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:47.420" data-start="00:48:47.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then we were talking and he was gonna go</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:50.420" data-start="00:48:50.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">into Emacs and I didn't have a,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:52.000" data-start="00:48:52.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, sure, that'd be great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:53.860" data-start="00:48:53.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">But he's like, I don't have a lot of time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:56.120" data-start="00:48:56.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I'm like, well, go back to the place that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:48:57.840" data-start="00:48:57.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">you have that experience.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:01.000" data-start="00:49:01.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">And he did, And then he started writing Lua</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:02.960" data-start="00:49:02.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">plugins. He was like, this is so much fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:05.380" data-start="00:49:05.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm like, good, you're on the right path.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:10.840" data-start="00:49:10.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like maybe there'll be space like over time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:13.860" data-start="00:49:13.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">how Lua plugins and Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:16.840" data-start="00:49:16.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, who knows? I know that Lua,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:19.040" data-start="00:49:19.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">you can use Fennel to write Lisp.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:24.240" data-start="00:49:24.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">In you write Lisp and it will transpile</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:29.060" data-start="00:49:29.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">Fennel to Lua. I forget how that plays out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:31.880" data-start="00:49:31.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">but we're not too far away from those 2</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:34.480" data-start="00:49:34.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">things being able to play.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:39.020" data-start="00:49:39.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">But I guess the question is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:41.980" data-start="00:49:41.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">does it need to? I don't know.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:44.540" data-start="00:49:44.540" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:47.620" data-start="00:49:47.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">translation, the cross-pollination of ideas</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:51.460" data-start="00:49:51.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">is certainly enough. I love the fact that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:54.720" data-start="00:49:54.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">people are borrowing ideas from VS Code and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:57.840" data-start="00:49:57.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">from Vim and people look at Emacs videos and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:58.840" data-start="00:49:58.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">other things and say, hey,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:49:59.860" data-start="00:49:59.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">that's a cool thing in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:01.240" data-start="00:50:01.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I don't want to ever use Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:03.240" data-start="00:50:03.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm going to do that whole thing in Vim.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:04.600" data-start="00:50:04.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I think that's fantastic.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:07.480" data-start="00:50:07.480" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:10.640" data-start="00:50:10.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">monocultures die. They just do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:16.840" data-start="00:50:16.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">And computer software and computer industry</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:24.120" data-start="00:50:24.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">pushes towards monoculture because of it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:26.660" data-start="00:50:26.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">wants the highest efficiency.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:31.440" data-start="00:50:31.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I'm like, I'm not,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:33.640" data-start="00:50:33.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">I mean, sometimes I'm here for that,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:35.600" data-start="00:50:35.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">but most of the time I'm like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:37.120" data-start="00:50:37.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want the bumps and the warts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:40.680" data-start="00:50:40.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want the art, the human interaction,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:42.720" data-start="00:50:42.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">the like, why are we trying to accomplish</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:43.360" data-start="00:50:43.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">this?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:46.440" data-start="00:50:46.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:49.640" data-start="00:50:49.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">determine efficiency because Emacs is far</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:52.840" data-start="00:50:52.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">Even if Emacs isn't multi-threaded is far</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:50:56.980" data-start="00:50:56.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">more efficient because because of the mental</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:00.060" data-start="00:51:00.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">model shifts because you're able to play and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:04.440" data-start="00:51:04.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">tweak with it and then have as much of a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:07.160" data-start="00:51:07.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">mental model shift for each task change that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:10.760" data-start="00:51:10.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">you want. Like, yeah, I want my file manager</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:16.260" data-start="00:51:16.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">to not be an editable text buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:18.660" data-start="00:51:18.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">Although sometimes when I want to rename</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:20.320" data-start="00:51:20.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">files, I want it to be that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:23.800" data-start="00:51:23.800" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:26.640" data-start="00:51:26.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">like, to be clear, I like the idea of Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:29.060" data-start="00:51:29.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">as a projection of, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:30.320" data-start="00:51:30.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">how I think about stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:33.780" data-start="00:51:33.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">So it's that whatever my neurons have made a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:37.040" data-start="00:51:37.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">good pathway for, I can have Emacs flow with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:41.660" data-start="00:51:41.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">me. That efficiency side is I want a factory,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:43.080" data-start="00:51:43.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want to stamp out widgets,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:44.540" data-start="00:51:44.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">I want them to be the same,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:45.400" data-start="00:51:45.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">chop, chop, chop, chop,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:51.860" data-start="00:51:51.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">chop, chop. That emacs runs in its spirit</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:57.180" data-start="00:51:57.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">along with vim contrary to that and I like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:51:57.440" data-start="00:51:57.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:00.530" data-start="00:52:00.530" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:03.480" data-start="00:52:03.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">mental model of Emacs is you should look at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:06.180" data-start="00:52:06.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs like this is probably something that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:08.100" data-start="00:52:08.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">people should think about when they are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:10.440" data-start="00:52:10.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">introducing Emacs to other people is Emacs is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:15.720" data-start="00:52:15.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">a treasure trove of conflicting ways of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:18.080" data-start="00:52:18.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">solving the same problem so you get,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:22.040" data-start="00:52:22.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">so you can individuate yourself on how you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:23.520" data-start="00:52:23.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">actually want to solve that problem.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:25.440" data-start="00:52:25.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:26.700" data-start="00:52:26.700" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:30.200" data-start="00:52:30.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">You get to choose. Or do you want Meow</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:31.900" data-start="00:52:31.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">bindings? You can choose.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:34.780" data-start="00:52:34.780" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:38.780" data-start="00:52:38.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">I, I came, I'm, I consider my,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:42.380" data-start="00:52:42.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">I, I lament because in 2005 I almost picked</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:46.100" data-start="00:52:46.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">up Emacs and it wasn't until 2020 that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:49.040" data-start="00:52:49.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">picked it up. And fortunately I picked it up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:54.000" data-start="00:52:54.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">when I did because I was able to look at</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:52:58.020" data-start="00:52:58.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">things I had previously accomplished and find</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:05.140" data-start="00:53:05.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">analogs And things like Helm and Ivy were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:08.940" data-start="00:53:08.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">both 2 different ways of doing it and consult</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:11.600" data-start="00:53:11.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">and then, or Selectrum and then consult,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:15.860" data-start="00:53:15.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">like they all had these different ways And it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:18.900" data-start="00:53:18.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">felt great because I could find the thing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:24.520" data-start="00:53:24.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">that worked for me. And they're close,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:27.680" data-start="00:53:27.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">but then they also like branch out and do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:30.360" data-start="00:53:30.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">things differently. And it was so fascinating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:34.860" data-start="00:53:34.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">to explore each of those and spend an hour or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:39.100" data-start="00:53:39.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">2 on a primary task in seeing where that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:42.040" data-start="00:53:42.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">little thread went. It's great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:47.200" data-start="00:53:47.200" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:51.040" data-start="00:53:51.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs. What pulled you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:55.120" data-start="00:53:55.120" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:53:59.680" data-start="00:53:59.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">I started in TextMate,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:03.280" data-start="00:54:03.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">That's kind of where I would say the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:06.460" data-start="00:54:06.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">beginning for coding for open source and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:07.840" data-start="00:54:07.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">using open source software.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:11.760" data-start="00:54:11.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">Sorry, using open source frameworks and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:14.540" data-start="00:54:14.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">languages. So TextMate to Sublime,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:18.260" data-start="00:54:18.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">basically TextMate couldn't search very well</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:20.740" data-start="00:54:20.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">at the time. It was getting bogged down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:21.640" data-start="00:54:21.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I moved to Sublime,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:23.260" data-start="00:54:23.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">which solved it, felt well,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:27.900" data-start="00:54:27.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">carried the same UI look with me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:30.680" data-start="00:54:30.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then when I was at a conference,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:34.540" data-start="00:54:34.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">there was a talk about using an open source</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:36.600" data-start="00:54:36.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">editor. I was like, yeah,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:38.720" data-start="00:54:38.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">I need to do that. I really need to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:43.080" data-start="00:54:43.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">And Adam was viable. I was like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:44.320" data-start="00:54:44.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">Oh, this is really close.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:47.120" data-start="00:54:47.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'll use it. And I didn't think too much</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:49.540" data-start="00:54:49.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">about it. And then the writing was on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:51.120" data-start="00:54:51.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">wall, that Adam is going away.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:55.760" data-start="00:54:55.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I was like, I need to find an open source</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:57.100" data-start="00:54:57.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">editor that speaks to me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:54:59.200" data-start="00:54:59.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I said, all right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:00.760" data-start="00:55:00.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">Vim, This is my fifth time.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:06.300" data-start="00:55:06.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">I will try. And I gave an earnest 2 weeks.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:09.060" data-start="00:55:09.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I'm just like, I cannot get this mental</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:11.600" data-start="00:55:11.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">model in my head. So I'm like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:12.800" data-start="00:55:12.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">all right, I set it down.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:14.540" data-start="00:55:14.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">I can use Vim, I'm comfortable.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:15.940" data-start="00:55:15.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">I think it's a great tool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:19.000" data-start="00:55:19.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">but my mental model doesn't map well there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:21.040" data-start="00:55:21.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I'm like, all right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:24.780" data-start="00:55:24.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">here we go, VS code. All right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:28.280" data-start="00:55:28.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">you're fine. But I feel like I might</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:31.340" data-start="00:55:31.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">accidentally charge my credit card in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:33.000" data-start="00:55:33.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">text editor on the default installation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:38.680" data-start="00:55:38.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">And that was alluded to by in 1 of the talks,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:46.120" data-start="00:55:46.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">I forget who he German about mandating Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:48.000" data-start="00:55:48.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">in his computer science classes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:51.020" data-start="00:55:51.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">He mentioned like the Microsoft Office or</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:54.060" data-start="00:55:54.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">Microsoft Marketplace felt like it was there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:55:58.860" data-start="00:55:58.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">So that was 1, but the moment where I was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:02.380" data-start="00:56:02.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">like, oh, hell no, VS Code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:08.520" data-start="00:56:08.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">Or I wanted to use a commit from the command</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:12.280" data-start="00:56:12.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">palette, and it brought up an HTML text input</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:15.060" data-start="00:56:15.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">area, and it was 30 characters.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:23.000" data-start="00:56:23.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">And in that moment, I saw several things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:27.040" data-start="00:56:27.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">1, I'm like, no, that's terrible because I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:28.100" data-start="00:56:28.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">want to write something meaningful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:33.640" data-start="00:56:33.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">2, this is the behavior that this tool is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:38.960" data-start="00:56:38.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">modeling. That tells me that history and like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:41.320" data-start="00:56:41.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">how it is built is not important.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:47.160" data-start="00:56:47.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">And yes, I can fix it and get around it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:49.240" data-start="00:56:49.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I kind of did. And I was like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:51.440" data-start="00:56:51.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">the principles are just,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:53.680" data-start="00:56:53.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">they're there. And then also understanding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:56.100" data-start="00:56:56.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">like there's a bunch of telemetry underneath</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:56:58.860" data-start="00:56:58.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">it. So I used VS Codium,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:00.240" data-start="00:57:00.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">there's still telemetry.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:03.340" data-start="00:57:03.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I was like, all right,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:07.380" data-start="00:57:07.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">2005 Jeremy, let's go try Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:08.940" data-start="00:57:08.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">let's see if we can do it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:13.860" data-start="00:57:13.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I hopped in, I grabbed Space Max.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:16.640" data-start="00:57:16.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">I was Like, yeah, this works pretty well.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:18.740" data-start="00:57:18.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like, I don't know how to use the keys very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:20.880" data-start="00:57:20.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">well. I'm figuring it out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:26.040" data-start="00:57:26.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">And. And I was like, you know what?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:27.340" data-start="00:57:27.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">Why don't I do the tutorial?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:30.860" data-start="00:57:30.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">And it was the tutorial that hooked me.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:36.820" data-start="00:57:36.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">Not because everything made 100% sense</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:42.440" data-start="00:57:42.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">because Emacs is old. It had a lot of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:45.420" data-start="00:57:45.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">language that was hard to internalize,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:50.500" data-start="00:57:50.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it presented it in a conversational I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:52.360" data-start="00:57:52.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">gonna meet you where you're at and we're</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:53.440" data-start="00:57:53.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">gonna walk with it together.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:56.480" data-start="00:57:56.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then when I was done with the tutorial,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:58.420" data-start="00:57:58.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">I said, you know, Space Max,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:57:59.760" data-start="00:57:59.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">I don't understand it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:00.920" data-start="00:58:00.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">And it's got some performance.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:04.180" data-start="00:58:04.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">It looks like there's like extra stuff that I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:08.420" data-start="00:58:08.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">may not need. So I went vanilla,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:11.780" data-start="00:58:11.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">nothing Emacs and just started working.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:14.060" data-start="00:58:14.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">I was like, well, how do you do this?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:17.280" data-start="00:58:17.280" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:19.600" data-start="00:58:19.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">those Emacs distribution shows you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:22.360" data-start="00:58:22.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">unequivocally how different it can be.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:25.880" data-start="00:58:25.880" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:31.600" data-start="00:58:31.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">and it was so good. But I knew my nature was,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:34.780" data-start="00:58:34.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">I was frustrated in, like I wrote an Atom</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:37.780" data-start="00:58:37.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">package, and that was awful.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:42.860" data-start="00:58:42.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">It was so terrible. But I knew what I wanted.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:48.280" data-start="00:58:48.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then I wrote, I started writing a VS code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:49.640" data-start="00:58:49.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">and I'm like, oh no, no,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:50.800" data-start="00:58:50.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">no, we're not here for this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:58:55.520" data-start="00:58:55.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so, yeah, SpaceMax showed me like this</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:00.600" data-start="00:59:00.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">can look and feel like a space that I used to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:03.920" data-start="00:59:03.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">be in. And then it has more functionality,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:07.440" data-start="00:59:07.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">more stuff. It's gonna be great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:09.960" data-start="00:59:09.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then I just was like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:11.880" data-start="00:59:11.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm gonna go find my own.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:15.920" data-start="00:59:15.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm really happy that I took the path because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:19.300" data-start="00:59:19.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">I just worked, wrote, and I'm like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:21.000" data-start="00:59:21.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">I bet you this, I bet you the tool,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:22.540" data-start="00:59:22.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">I know it can do this because it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:24.620" data-start="00:59:24.620" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, text me, did this or Adam,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:27.800" data-start="00:59:27.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm gonna go, I went on to Melpa and I found</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:29.440" data-start="00:59:29.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">a couple different things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:31.120" data-start="00:59:31.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm like, all right, let's try them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:32.320" data-start="00:59:32.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm like, that's the 1,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:34.480" data-start="00:59:34.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">great. Roll it in, keep working.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:36.000" data-start="00:59:36.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">I know it can do this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:39.800" data-start="00:59:39.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">Find a package. And so I built up this sense</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:46.060" data-start="00:59:46.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">of the packages and my strategy was go to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:49.680" data-start="00:59:49.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Melpa, look at, that was the 1 that showed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:52.540" data-start="00:59:52.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">up, look at the number of downloads.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:54.520" data-start="00:59:54.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I'm like, what's the high stuff?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:55.900" data-start="00:59:55.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">What really gets used?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:59:57.680" data-start="00:59:57.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">There's something there.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:00.320" data-start="01:00:00.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then also look at what was most recently</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:03.420" data-start="01:00:03.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">updated. So kind of pivot on those along with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:06.960" data-start="01:00:06.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">a keyword search and I found the tools that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:17.780" data-start="01:00:17.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">worked well. But it really came down to like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:19.960" data-start="01:00:19.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">that VS Code I was almost in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:24.400" data-start="01:00:24.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I've been around long enough to know what</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:25.560" data-start="01:00:25.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">Microsoft will do.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:32.240" data-start="01:00:32.240" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:34.600" data-start="01:00:34.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">I think I saw some interesting emacs videos.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:42.320" data-start="01:00:42.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">I wanted to try Well, I wanted to try working</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:44.500" data-start="01:00:44.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">more with the keyboard and not need I think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:46.800" data-start="01:00:46.800" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:51.180" data-start="01:00:51.180" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:54.380" data-start="01:00:54.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">explicitly for ways to just work on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:56.920" data-start="01:00:56.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">keyboard only, which meant that I wasn't</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:00:59.060" data-start="01:00:59.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">looking for programs that followed Cua,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:04.400" data-start="01:01:04.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">which really leaves you like 2 options,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:10.960" data-start="01:01:10.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">Vim and Emacs. And when I looked at the 2,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:13.940" data-start="01:01:13.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">I saw 1 of the big differentiating factors I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:15.660" data-start="01:01:15.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">saw was Tramp, which was,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:18.480" data-start="01:01:18.480" data-video="qanda-mentor">oh, you mean I get a SSH into a machine and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:19.840" data-start="01:01:19.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">have my customizations too?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:22.740" data-start="01:01:22.740" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:29.140" data-start="01:01:29.140" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:34.440" data-start="01:01:34.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">Eventually I combined that with a tiling</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:36.400" data-start="01:01:36.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">window manager, NixOS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:40.840" data-start="01:01:40.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">and started banishing as much of the GUI as I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:44.060" data-start="01:01:44.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">possibly could, running MPV or VLC,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:49.180" data-start="01:01:49.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">so I could edit so that my config files could</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:53.720" data-start="01:01:53.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">be keyboard oriented. My settings config</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:01:55.920" data-start="01:01:55.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">menus are now keyboard oriented.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:00.860" data-start="01:02:00.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">And yeah, that was the incremental process of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:04.400" data-start="01:02:04.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">just, yeah, making the computer nicer,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:06.680" data-start="01:02:06.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">more efficient, and then you figure out all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:08.080" data-start="01:02:08.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">the other advantages of the...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:13.440" data-start="01:02:13.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:18.940" data-start="01:02:18.940" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:21.840" data-start="01:02:21.840" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:27.345" data-start="01:02:27.345" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:29.600" data-start="01:02:29.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">Okay, I'll tell you that story,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:30.840" data-start="01:02:30.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">I get thought out of my head,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:32.780" data-start="01:02:32.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">so I forget it. But what you described,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:34.900" data-start="01:02:34.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">Jerry, about kind of starting with the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:37.340" data-start="01:02:37.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">distribution and then pulling back and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:39.140" data-start="01:02:39.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">starting with vanilla and building up,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:41.040" data-start="01:02:41.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">kind of close the stories that I've heard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:42.980" data-start="01:02:42.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">from a lot of people in the community where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:46.600" data-start="01:02:46.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">the distribution gives them kind of an end</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:48.140" data-start="01:02:48.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">goal, at least work requirements,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:50.280" data-start="01:02:50.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">So get the stuff done and they're not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:52.260" data-start="01:02:52.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">slugging through the weeds around the start.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:55.440" data-start="01:02:55.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">I have a hard time modifying it because</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:57.440" data-start="01:02:57.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">modifying the distribution itself is very</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:02:59.140" data-start="01:02:59.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">different from the tools they see.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:01.520" data-start="01:03:01.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">They feel like they want to understand the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:02.320" data-start="01:03:02.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">different possible part.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:04.240" data-start="01:03:04.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">And so then they pull back and say,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:06.300" data-start="01:03:06.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">okay, I've got this thing that can use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:08.360" data-start="01:03:08.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">everything to just get some quick work done,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:10.380" data-start="01:03:10.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">but I have this thing that I can call,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:13.500" data-start="01:03:13.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">that's mine. And I understand because I'm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:15.960" data-start="01:03:15.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">building it up from the ground up.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:19.540" data-start="01:03:19.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">Okay, so that's like, oh,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:21.500" data-start="01:03:21.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">interesting, there's a lot of people who are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:23.940" data-start="01:03:23.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">like that, and it really helps them to both</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:27.240" data-start="01:03:27.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">have that insight, which is see through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:29.540" data-start="01:03:29.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">distributions and also videos of other</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:32.060" data-start="01:03:32.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">people's workflows and press kind of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:34.080" data-start="01:03:34.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">conference presentations often about</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:35.140" data-start="01:03:35.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">completely different topics,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:37.540" data-start="01:03:37.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">right? So someone whizzing through Ruby on</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:39.920" data-start="01:03:39.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">Rails or whatever else and doing all of this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:43.580" data-start="01:03:43.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">But also having 1 help them break out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:46.560" data-start="01:03:46.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">okay, well, there's a lot of work from where</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:47.900" data-start="01:03:47.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">I am to where that is.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:49.740" data-start="01:03:49.740" data-video="qanda-mentor">How do I do it without being overwhelmed?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:51.400" data-start="01:03:51.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">Because if they try to learn everything,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:55.520" data-start="01:03:55.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">they'll go crazy. And then they'll fall.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:03:57.500" data-start="01:03:57.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">And the brain is super important.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:01.500" data-start="01:04:01.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">And how I got into this whole eMac thing was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:03.520" data-start="01:04:03.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">I was reading all the computer science books</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:06.180" data-start="01:04:06.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">in the university library and 1 of the Unix</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:09.160" data-start="01:04:09.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">power tools had a chapter on Emacs and had</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:11.040" data-start="01:04:11.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">them you know well there's another type of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:14.440" data-start="01:04:14.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">whatever. Okay that's interesting so I went</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:17.080" data-start="01:04:17.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">and tried it out But the reason I really got</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:19.280" data-start="01:04:19.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">into it was because I was using John Wigley's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:23.520" data-start="01:04:23.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">Planner Mode. This was before Org Mode came</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:25.320" data-start="01:04:25.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">about. So Planner Mode was a link.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:27.040" data-start="01:04:27.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">I said, hey, this is great.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:29.380" data-start="01:04:29.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">I'm looking for ways to help out.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:31.560" data-start="01:04:31.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">If you need help verifying any bugs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:34.160" data-start="01:04:34.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">you know, send it to me and I'll do the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:37.540" data-start="01:04:37.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">figuring out. He's an author and an inventor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:37.960" data-start="01:04:37.960" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:39.480" data-start="01:04:39.480" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:42.720" data-start="01:04:42.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I'm like, okay. And then that's how I got</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:44.680" data-start="01:04:44.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">to know this wonderful community of people</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:46.840" data-start="01:04:46.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">who customize emacs so much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:51.680" data-start="01:04:51.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">And it just goes there because really,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:54.100" data-start="01:04:54.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">when you see all these different ways that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:04:55.860" data-start="01:04:55.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">people use in all these different stories</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:00.060" data-start="01:05:00.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">that you get send off because they're using</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:03.960" data-start="01:05:03.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">it to bake sourdough bread and do knitting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:06.700" data-start="01:05:06.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">and all the crazy things that people come up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:08.900" data-start="01:05:08.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">with. I've been using it as an audio editor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:11.000" data-start="01:05:11.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's just weird. It's just fun.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:13.100" data-start="01:05:13.100" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:19.640" data-start="01:05:19.640" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:22.900" data-start="01:05:22.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">meaning to say is every time I see the on the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:26.140" data-start="01:05:26.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">EMAX conference the time that the scratch</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:29.900" data-start="01:05:29.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">buffer with the big clock that is ticking</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:34.980" data-start="01:05:34.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">down as and the multi multiple sized fonts As</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:37.720" data-start="01:05:37.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">I always think wow, that's really cool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:38.980" data-start="01:05:38.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">I didn't know Emacs could do that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:40.440" data-start="01:05:40.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">Wait, no, I saw that last year.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:43.860" data-start="01:05:43.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">How do you do, now, how do I do that?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:45.360" data-start="01:05:45.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">Cause that's not, and that's not something I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:46.920" data-start="01:05:46.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">normally even think about Emacs doing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:48.080" data-start="01:05:48.080" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:51.220" data-start="01:05:51.220" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:55.760" data-start="01:05:55.760" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:05:59.760" data-start="01:05:59.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">in the EmacsConf-el repository.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:03.960" data-start="01:06:03.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">Grab the link and open but you can grab the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:07.940" data-start="01:06:07.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">code from there. It's basically the text</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:08.260" data-start="01:06:08.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">property.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:15.020" data-start="01:06:15.020" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:17.140" data-start="01:06:17.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">years. Like, I didn't know we could do that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:18.220" data-start="01:06:18.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">way. I thought about that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:21.260" data-start="01:06:21.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">I had this exact thought last year when I saw</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:21.600" data-start="01:06:21.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:28.260" data-start="01:06:28.260" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:31.220" data-start="01:06:31.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">like I have memories of remembering doing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:34.540" data-start="01:06:34.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">something. I don't have memories of doing it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:36.680" data-start="01:06:36.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like all of the things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:40.560" data-start="01:06:40.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like so it's again, we,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:45.240" data-start="01:06:45.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs helps expose like the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:48.640" data-start="01:06:48.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">like it's, anything's possible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:53.300" data-start="01:06:53.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">And we see how it becomes possible through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:55.640" data-start="01:06:55.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">other people. And then it gets our brains</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:57.780" data-start="01:06:57.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">thinking about other ways of doing stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:06:59.920" data-start="01:06:59.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">And I think that's the exciting part.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:02.360" data-start="01:07:02.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">Dog who wants to go play Frisbee.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:07.900" data-start="01:07:07.900" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:11.060" data-start="01:07:11.060" data-video="qanda-mentor">want to encourage people to not only talk</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:12.840" data-start="01:07:12.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">about Emacs and write Emacs blog posts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:15.380" data-start="01:07:15.380" data-video="qanda-mentor">but also actually demonstrate Emacs in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:16.560" data-start="01:07:16.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">sense of doing something else.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:20.220" data-start="01:07:20.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">So for example, we can match people at Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:23.560" data-start="01:07:23.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">if you're presenting about Ruby on Rails and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:27.040" data-start="01:07:27.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">you're doing all of your and education and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:30.240" data-start="01:07:30.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">things while you're presenting Rails,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:32.900" data-start="01:07:32.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">you reach all these people who are interested</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:34.400" data-start="01:07:34.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">in Rails, developer Rails,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:36.260" data-start="01:07:36.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">but might not have even considered Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:41.920" data-start="01:07:41.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">And here, you know, you probably would.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:44.860" data-start="01:07:44.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">I would probably have a hard time writing an</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:47.040" data-start="01:07:47.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">entire talk about adding text properties,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:49.540" data-start="01:07:49.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">but the fact that there's a thing here that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:50.800" data-start="01:07:50.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">shows, hey, this is possible,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:53.000" data-start="01:07:53.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs can get people to think,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:54.880" data-start="01:07:54.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">okay, so how do I get from here to there?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:07:57.440" data-start="01:07:57.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">Just showing the possible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:02.120" data-start="01:08:02.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">Yeah. Which source code is in the,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:02.360" data-start="01:08:02.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">whatchamacallit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:04.600" data-start="01:08:04.600" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:08.240" data-start="01:08:08.240" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:12.540" data-start="01:08:12.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">dovetails with people who are interested in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:15.940" data-start="01:08:15.940" data-video="qanda-mentor">making their own local first Zettelkasten,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:17.720" data-start="01:08:17.720" data-video="qanda-mentor">because look at how many Zettelkasten</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:21.300" data-start="01:08:21.300" data-video="qanda-mentor">packages you have. Especially with how much,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:23.800" data-start="01:08:23.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">like it feels like, it seems like Emacs has</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:27.439" data-start="01:08:27.439" data-video="qanda-mentor">more than Vim, but Vim is bigger or VS,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:30.140" data-start="01:08:30.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">feels like it has more than Vim or VS Code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:31.920" data-start="01:08:31.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">and VS Code's bigger. I'm not sure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:36.819" data-start="01:08:36.819" data-video="qanda-mentor">but it feels like it. Same thing with that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:39.920" data-start="01:08:39.920" data-video="qanda-mentor">HyperCore. That HyperCore felt more like a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:42.540" data-start="01:08:42.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">local first peer-to-peer system.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:48.240" data-start="01:08:48.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">So there's a weird dovetail where they want</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:52.279" data-start="01:08:52.279" data-video="qanda-mentor">the knowledge bases that are local first,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:08:58.260" data-start="01:08:58.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">comprehensive, because 1 of the properties of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:03.500" data-start="01:09:03.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">the Zettelkasten or Org Mode agendas is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:07.359" data-start="01:09:07.359" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's all your notes in 1 place.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:14.439" data-start="01:09:14.439" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's not, you know, your notes in either pad</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:19.540" data-start="01:09:19.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">and your notes in Google Calendar,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:23.180" data-start="01:09:23.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">your notes in 20 different places,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:24.520" data-start="01:09:24.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">your notes in Evernote.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:28.700" data-start="01:09:28.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's your notes in 1 program in 1 place</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:30.840" data-start="01:09:30.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">because you have to deal with them And</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:32.600" data-start="01:09:32.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">they're going to be in files on your hard</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:34.279" data-start="01:09:34.279" data-video="qanda-mentor">drive, and you're going to have packages</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:37.080" data-start="01:09:37.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">there. That's the other weird thing too,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:40.240" data-start="01:09:40.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">is how many, like, you install an Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:41.399" data-start="01:09:41.399" data-video="qanda-mentor">package, 1 of the guarantees,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:43.439" data-start="01:09:43.439" data-video="qanda-mentor">some of the guarantees you seem to get with</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:46.260" data-start="01:09:46.260" data-video="qanda-mentor">it is if it does use an external program,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:48.399" data-start="01:09:48.399" data-video="qanda-mentor">it's going to have a lot of configuration in</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:51.020" data-start="01:09:51.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">Emacs. It's going to be installed.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:53.760" data-start="01:09:53.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">It's going to be local first.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:56.780" data-start="01:09:56.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">Cause like you have flow bits,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:09:59.340" data-start="01:09:59.340" data-video="qanda-mentor">but how many programs like are,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:05.140" data-start="01:10:05.140" data-video="qanda-mentor">are cloud first. And it feels like most of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:06.820" data-start="01:10:06.820" data-video="qanda-mentor">those are like org Trello,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:10.160" data-start="01:10:10.160" data-video="qanda-mentor">where it's like, I want to use org mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:12.040" data-start="01:10:12.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">but other people use Trello.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:15.460" data-start="01:10:15.460" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I'm going to be grudgingly using this org</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:17.400" data-start="01:10:17.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">Trello to be a bridge between the 2,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:19.200" data-start="01:10:19.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">not because I wanted to use org,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:21.240" data-start="01:10:21.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">not because I wanted to use Trello in the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:23.200" data-start="01:10:23.200" data-video="qanda-mentor">first place or I started off with Trello and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:24.280" data-start="01:10:24.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">now I wanna use org mode.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:27.680" data-start="01:10:27.680" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:37.020" data-start="01:10:37.020" data-video="qanda-mentor">The Thought I have is with the 2022 interest</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:43.080" data-start="01:10:43.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">rates going up, the era of free money,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:46.520" data-start="01:10:46.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">or even like getting money for more,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:49.960" data-start="01:10:49.960" data-video="qanda-mentor">more money than it actually costs Like it was</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:55.600" data-start="01:10:55.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">minting money. We are going to be seeing how</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:10:59.440" data-start="01:10:59.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">these organizations that had financial</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:01.840" data-start="01:11:01.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">runways, all of these cloud services,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:06.760" data-start="01:11:06.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">what's not gonna last because there's no</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:12.440" data-start="01:11:12.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">funding. And like the durability of our local</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:16.400" data-start="01:11:16.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">first plain text, free open source stuff.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:21.320" data-start="01:11:21.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">Like I won't have to do a content migration</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:24.320" data-start="01:11:24.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">unless I get a B of my bonnet and want to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:27.700" data-start="01:11:27.700" data-video="qanda-mentor">like change from org mode to markdown for</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:30.660" data-start="01:11:30.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">some reason. Like I have it and Then I can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:32.980" data-start="01:11:32.980" data-video="qanda-mentor">send it out. So there's also like that posse</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:36.400" data-start="01:11:36.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">principle publish on-site syndicate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:41.660" data-start="01:11:41.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">everywhere Is what emacs and vim like they</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:42.780" data-start="01:11:42.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">allow for us to do?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:46.440" data-start="01:11:46.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:48.900" data-start="01:11:48.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">have multiple options of doing something so</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:51.580" data-start="01:11:51.580" data-video="qanda-mentor">you can choose something so you can take</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:11:54.360" data-start="01:11:54.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">ownership of your data in the way you want.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:00.220" data-start="01:12:00.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">It all dovetails into each other and I think</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:02.840" data-start="01:12:02.840" data-video="qanda-mentor">that's something worth thinking about,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:05.540" data-start="01:12:05.540" data-video="qanda-mentor">especially in relation with who should learn</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:08.040" data-start="01:12:08.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">and how should you introduce Emacs to people,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:14.180" data-start="01:12:14.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">because like, with the idea of people should</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:16.560" data-start="01:12:16.560" data-video="qanda-mentor">try an Emacs distribution and then start</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:17.240" data-start="01:12:17.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">their own from scratch,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:18.880" data-start="01:12:18.880" data-video="qanda-mentor">just so that they, like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:20.280" data-start="01:12:20.280" data-video="qanda-mentor">if you use it for 10 minutes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:24.400" data-start="01:12:24.400" data-video="qanda-mentor">you'll gain so much because you use your 3</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:25.760" data-start="01:12:25.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">and then all of a sudden you realize,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:29.180" data-start="01:12:29.180" data-video="qanda-mentor">you also know how malleable Emacs can be.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:30.520" data-start="01:12:30.520" data-video="qanda-mentor">And then you start saying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:32.000" data-start="01:12:32.000" data-video="qanda-mentor">now, how do I do that?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:33.240" data-start="01:12:33.240" data-video="qanda-mentor">So I get to make those choices?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:34.840" data-start="01:12:34.840" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:39.340" data-start="01:12:39.340" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:40.320" data-start="01:12:40.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">enough, I don't have to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:43.500" data-start="01:12:43.500" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:45.360" data-start="01:12:45.360" data-video="qanda-mentor">wanted to mention, shocking word,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:49.040" data-start="01:12:49.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">as in malleability. Another tip I came</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:50.600" data-start="01:12:50.600" data-video="qanda-mentor">across, don't know from whom,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:51.500" data-start="01:12:51.500" data-video="qanda-mentor">might have been from you,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:53.440" data-start="01:12:53.440" data-video="qanda-mentor">I don't know, is to define aliases,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:56.320" data-start="01:12:56.320" data-video="qanda-mentor">because we use different words from what the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:12:58.680" data-start="01:12:58.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">functions are. It's 1 of those little meta</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:00.420" data-start="01:13:00.420" data-video="qanda-mentor">things that, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:02.080" data-start="01:13:02.080" data-video="qanda-mentor">If you keep calling it something else,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:05.900" data-start="01:13:05.900" data-video="qanda-mentor">just define it so that you can call it like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:06.760" data-start="01:13:06.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">commencing your words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:12.440" data-start="01:13:12.440" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:14.020" data-start="01:13:14.020" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:17.220" data-start="01:13:17.220" data-video="qanda-mentor">for my dog. Okay, I'll listen to what you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:18.120" data-start="01:13:18.120" data-video="qanda-mentor">say. All right, I</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:20.020" data-start="01:13:20.020" data-video="qanda-mentor"></span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:21.780" data-start="01:13:21.780" data-video="qanda-mentor">They have been so patient.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:26.040" data-start="01:13:26.040" data-video="qanda-mentor">So it was great talking with all of you and</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:29.640" data-start="01:13:29.640" data-video="qanda-mentor">Sasha, thanks for the organizing energy</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:31.680" data-start="01:13:31.680" data-video="qanda-mentor">you've put into this. Plasma Strike,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:32.800" data-start="01:13:32.800" data-video="qanda-mentor">thank you for your presentation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:34.860" data-start="01:13:34.860" data-video="qanda-mentor">I love this conference.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:36.660" data-start="01:13:36.660" data-video="qanda-mentor">So thank you very much.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:41.760" data-start="01:13:41.760" data-video="qanda-mentor">And now have a good rest of your Sunday.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="01:13:43.100" data-start="01:13:43.100" data-video="qanda-mentor">Bye.</span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:jeremy@jeremyfriesen.com?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20mentor%3A%20Mentoring%20VS-Coders%20as%20an%20Emacsian%20%28or%20How%20to%20show%20not%20tell%20people%20about%20the%20wonders%20of%20Emacs%29">jeremy@jeremyfriesen.com</a></p>
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GRAIL---A Generalized Representation and Aggregation of Information Layers
https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/grail/
Copyright © 2022 Sameer Pradhan
2022-12-16T03:40:58Z
2022-10-05T15:18:24Z
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<h1>GRAIL---A Generalized Representation and Aggregation of Information Layers</h1>
<p>Sameer Pradhan (he/him)</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="grail-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--main.vtt" default />"""<track kind="chapters" label="Chapters" src="/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--main--chapters.vtt" /><p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><pre class="chapters" data-target="grail-mainVideo">
<p>00:00.000 Introduction
01:13.400 Processing language
02:34.560 Annotation
03:43.240 Learning from data
04:39.680 Manual annotation
05:44.400 How can we develop a unified representation?
06:22.520 What role might Emacs and Org mode play?
06:55.280 The complex structure of language
08:10.800 Annotation tools
10:22.360 Org mode
12:45.480 Example
17:36.240 Different readings
19:17.680 Spontaneous speech
23:32.000 Editing properties in column view
24:20.280 Conclusion
25:15.280 Bonus material
27:20.480 Syntactic analysis
28:39.280 Forced alignment
30:12.600 Alignment before tokenization
31:42.880 Layers
34:31.320 Variations</p>
</pre>
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<h1>Q&A</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="grail-qanda"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--answers.webm" />${captions}<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div>Listen to just the audio:<br /><audio controls preload="none" id="grail-qanda-audio" src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--answers.opus"></audio></div><div></div><div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--answers.webm">Download --answers.webm (41MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--answers.vtt">Download --answers.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-grail--graila-generalized-representation-and-aggregation-of-information-layers--sameer-pradhan--answers.opus">Download --answers.opus (16MB)</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Description</h1>
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<p>The human brain receives various signals that it assimilates (filters,
splices, corrects, etc.) to build a syntactic structure and its semantic
interpretation. This is a complex process that enables human communication.
The field of artificial intelligence (AI) is devoted to studying how we
generate symbols and derive meaning from such signals and to building
predictive models that allow effective human-computer interaction.</p>
<p>For the purpose of this talk we will limit the scope of signals to the
domain to language—text and speech. Computational Linguistics (CL),
a.k.a. Natural Language Processing (NLP), is a sub-area of AI that tries to
interpret them. It involves modeling and predicting complex linguistic
structures from these signals. These models tend to rely heavily on a large
amount of <code>raw'' (naturally occurring) data and a varying amount of
(manually) enriched data, commonly known as</code>annotations''. The models are
only as good as the quality of the annotations. Owing to the complex and
numerous nature of linguistic phenomena, a divide and conquer approach is
common. The upside is that it allows one to focus on one, or few, related
linguistic phenomena. The downside is that the universe of these phenomena
keeps expanding as language is context sensitive and evolves over time. For
example, depending on the context, the word <code>bank'' can refer to a financial
institution, or the rising ground surrounding a lake, or something else. The
verb</code>google'' did not exist before the company came into being.</p>
<p>Manually annotating data can be a very task specific, labor intensive,
endeavor. Owing to this, advances in multiple modalities have happened in
silos until recently. Recent advances in computer hardware and machine
learning algorithms have opened doors to interpretation of multimodal data.
However, the need to piece together such related but disjoint predictions
poses a huge challenge.</p>
<p>This brings us to the two questions that we will try to address in this
talk:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>How can we come up with a unified representation of data and annotations that encompasses arbitrary levels of linguistic information? and,</p></li>
<li><p>What role might Emacs play in this process?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Emacs provides a rich environment for editing and manipulating recursive
embedded structures found in programming languages. Its view of text,
however, is more or less linear–strings broken into words, strings ended by
periods, strings identified using delimiters, etc. It does not assume
embedded or recursive structure in text. However, the process of interpreting
natural language involves operating on such structures. What if we could
adapt Emacs to manipulate rich structures derived from text? Unlike
programming languages, which are designed to be parsed and interpreted
deterministically, interpretation of statements in natural languages has to
frequently deal with phenomena such as ambiguity, inconsistency,
incompleteness, etc. and can get quite complex.</p>
<p>We present an architecture (GRAIL) which utilizes the capabilities of Emacs
to allow the representation and aggregation of such rich structures in
a systematic fashion. Our approach is not tied to Emacs, but uses its many
built-in capabilities for creating and evaluating solution prototypes.</p>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Notes</h2>
<ul>
<li>I will plan to fix the issues with the subtitles in a more
systematic fashion and make the video available on the
emacsconf/grail URL. My sense is that this URL will be active for
the foreseeable future.</li>
<li>I am going to try and revise some of the answers which I typed quite
quickly and may not have provided useful context or might have made
errors.</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>Please feel free to email me at pradhan@cemantix.org for any futher
questions or discussions you may want to have with me or be part of
the grail community (doesn't exist yet :-), or is a community of 1)</li>
<li>.</li>
</ul>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: Has the '92 UPenn corpus of articles feat been reproduced over
and over again using these tools?
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
<li>Yes. The '92 corpus only annotated syntactic structure. It was
probably the first time that the details captured in syntax were
selected not purely based on linguistic accuracy, but on the
consistency of such annotations across multiple annotators. This
is often referred to as Inter-Annotator Agreement. The high IAA
for this corpus was probably one of the reasons that parsers
trained on it got accuracies in the mid 80s or so. Then over the
next 30 years (and still continuing..) academics improved on
parsers and today the performance on the test set from this
corpus is somewhere around F-score of 95. But this has to be
taken with a big grain of salt given overfitting and how many
times people have seen the test set. </li>
<li>One thing that might be worth mentioing is that over the past 30
years, there have been many different phenomena that have been
annotated on a part of this corpus. However, as I mentioned
given the difficulty of current tools and representations to
integrate disparate layers of annotations. Some such issues
being related to the complexity of the phenomena and others
related to the brittleness of the representations. For example,
I remember when we were building the OntoNotes corpus, there was
a point where the guidelines were changed to split all words at
a 'hyphen'. That simple change cause a lot of heartache
because the interdependencies were not captured at a level that
could be programmatically manipulated. That was around 2007 when
I decided to use a relational database architecture to represent
the layers. The great thing is that it was an almost perfect
representation but for some reason it never caught up because
using a database to prepare data for training was something that
was kind of unthinkable 15 years ago. Maybe? Anyway, the format
that is the easiest to use but very rigid in the sense that you
can quickly make use of it, but if something changes somewhere
you have no idea if the whole is consistent. And when came
across org-mode sometime around 2011/12 (if I remember
correctly) I thought it would be a great tool. And indeed about
decade in the future I am trying to stand on it's and emacs'
shoulders.</li>
<li>This corpus was one of the first large scale manually annotated
corpora that bootstrapped the statistical natural language
processing era. That can be considered the first wave...
SInce then, there have been more corpora built on the same
philosophy. In fact I spent about 8 years about a decade ago
building a much larger corpus with more layers of information
and it is called the OntoNotes. It covers Chinese and Arabic as
well (DARPA funding!) This is freely available for research to
anyone anywhere. that was quite a feat. </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q:Is this only for natural languagles like english or more general?
Would this be used for programing laungages.</p>
<ul>
<li>A: I am using English as a use case, but the idea is to have it
completely multilingual. </li>
<li>I cannot think why you would want to use it for programming
languages. In fact the concept of an AST in programming
languages was what I thought would be worth exploring in this
area of research. Org Mode, the way I sometimes view it is a
somewhat crude incarnation of that and can be sort of manually
built, but the idea is to identify patterns and build upon them
to create a larger collection of transformations that could be
generally useful. That could help capture the abstract
reprsentation of "meaning" and help the models learn better. </li>
<li>These days most models are trained on a boat load of data and no
matter how much data you use to train your largest model, it is
still going to be a small spec in the universe of ever growing
data that are are sitting in today. So, not surprisingly, these
models tend to overfit the data they are trained on. </li>
<li>So, if you have a smaller data set which is not quite the same
as the one that you had the training data for, then the models
really do poorly. It is sometimes compared to learning a sine
function using the points on the sine wave as opposed to
deriving the function itself. You can get close, but then then
you cannot really do a lot better with that model <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":-)" /></li>
<li>I did a brief stint at the Harvard Medical School/Boston
Childrens' Hospital to see if we would use the same underlying
philosophy to build better models for understanding clinical
notes. It would be an extremely useful and socially beneficial
use case, but then after a few years and realizing that the
legal and policy issues realted to making such data available on
a larger scale might need a few more decades, I decided to step
off that wagon (if I am using the figure of speech correctly).</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>More recently, since I joined the Linguistic Data Consortium, we
have been looking at spoken neurological tests that are taken by
older people and using which neurologists can predict a
potential early onset of some neurological disorder. The idea is
to see if we can use speech and langauge signals to predict such
cases early on. The fact that we don't have cures for those
conditions yet, the best we can do it identify them earlier with
the hope that the progression can be slowed down.</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>This is sort of what is happening with the deep learning hype.
It is not to say that there hasn;t been a significant
advancement in the technologies, but to say that the models can
"learn" is an extremely overstatement. </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q: Reminds me of the advantages of pre computer copy and paste. Cut
up paper and rearange but having more stuff with your pieces.</p>
<ul>
<li>A: Right! </li>
<li>Kind of like that, but more "intelligent" than copy/paste,
because you could have various local constraints that would
ensure that the information that is consistent with the whole. I
am also ensioning this as a usecase of hooks. And if you can
have rich local dependencies, then you can be sure (as much as
you can) that the information signal is not too corrupted.</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>I did not read the "cut up paper" you mentioned. That is an
interesting thought. In fact, the kind of thing I was/am
envisioning is that you can cut the paper a million ways but
then you can still join them back to form the original piece of
paper. </li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p>```{=html}</p>
<p>```</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Q: Have you used it on some real life situation? where have you experimented with this?</p>
<ul>
<li>A: NO. </li>
<li>I am probably the only person who is doing this crazy thing. It
would be nice, or rather I have a feeling that something like
this, if worked upon for a while by many might lead to a really
potent tool for the masses. I feel strongly about giving such
power to the users, and be able to edit and share the data
openly so that they are not stuck in some corporate vault
somewhere <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":-)" /> One thing at a time.</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>I am in the process of creating a minimally viable package and
see where that goes.</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>The idea is to start within emacs and orgmode but not
necessarily be limited to it.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q:Do you see this as a format for this type of annotation
specifically, or something more general that can be used for
interlinear glosses, lexicons, etc? -- Does wordsense include a
valence on positive or negative words-- (mood) . </p></li>
<li><p>Interesting. question. There are sub-corpora that have some of this
data. </p></li>
<li><ul>
<li>A: Absolutely. IN fact, the project I mentioned OntoNotes has
multiple layers of annotation. One of them being the
propositional structure which uses a large lexicon that covers
about 15K verbs and nouns and all their argument structures that
we have been seen so far in the corpora. There is about a
million "propositions" that have been released recently (we
just recently celebrated a 20th birthday of the corpus. It is
called the PropBank. </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>There is an interesting history of the "Banks" . It started with
Treebank, and then there was PropBank (with a capital B), but then
when we were developing OntoNotes which contains:</p>
<ul>
<li>Syntax</li>
<li>Named Entities</li>
<li>Coreference Resolutoion</li>
<li>Propositions</li>
<li>Word Sensse </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>All in the same whole and across various genre... (can add more
information here later... )</p></li>
<li><p>Q: Are there parallel efforts to analyze literary texts or news
articles? Pulling the ambiguity of meaning and not just the syntax
out of works? (Granted this may be out of your area-- ignore as
desired)</p>
<ul>
<li>A: <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":-)" /> Nothing that relates to "meaning" falls too far away
from where I would like to be. It is a very large landscape and
growing very fast, so it is hard to be able to be everywhere at
the same time <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":-)" /></li>
<li>.</li>
<li>Many people are working on trying to analyze literature.
Analyzing news stories has been happening since the beginning of
the statistical NLP revolution---sort of linked to the fact that
the first million "trees" were curated using WSJ articles <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile.png" alt=":-)" /></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q: Have you considered support for conlangs, such as Toki Pona? The
simplicity of Toki Pona seems like it would lend itself well to
machine processing.</p>
<ul>
<li>A: This is the first time I hearing of conlangs and Toki Pona.
I would love to know more about them to say more, but I cannot
imaging any langauge not being able to use this framework.</li>
<li>conlangs are "constructed languages" such as Esperanto ---
languages designed with intent, rather than evolved over
centuries. Toki Pona is a minimal conlang created in 2001, with
a uniform syntax and small (<200 word) vocabulary.</li>
<li>Thanks for the information! I would love to look into it.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q: Is there a roadmap of sorts for GRAIL?</p>
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
<li>Yes. I am now actually using real world annotations on larg
corpora---both text and speech and am validating the concept
further. I am sure there will be some bumps in the way, and I am
not saying that this is going to be a cure-all, but I feel
(after spending most of my professional life building/using
corpora) that this approach does seem very appealing to me. The
speed of its development will depend on how many buy into the
idea and pitch in, I guess.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q: How can GRAIL be used by common people?</p>
<ul>
<li>A: I don't think it can be used by common people at the very
moment---partly because most "common man" has never heard of
emacs or org-mode. But if we can valide the concept and if it
does "grow legs" and walk out of the emacs room into the
larger universe, then absolutely, anyone who can have any say
about langauge could use it. And the contributions would be as
useful as the consistency with which one can capture a certain
phenomena.</li>
<li>.</li>
<li>Everytime you use a capta these days, the algorithms used by the
company storing the data get slightly better. What if we could
democratize this concept. That could lead to fascinating things.
Like Wikipedia did for the sum total of human knowledge.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Q: </p>
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="grail-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:00:00.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:00:00.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Thank you for joining me today. I'm Sameer Pradhan</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:05.840" data-start="00:00:05.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">from the Linguistic Data Consortium</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:07.800" data-start="00:00:07.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">at the University of Pennsylvania</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:10.080" data-start="00:00:10.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and founder of cemantix.org .</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:14.520" data-start="00:00:14.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Today we'll be addressing research</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:16.880" data-start="00:00:16.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in computational linguistics,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:18.720" data-start="00:00:18.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">also known as natural language processing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:22.040" data-start="00:00:22.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a sub area of artificial intelligence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:24.720" data-start="00:00:24.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with a focus on modeling and predicting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:27.760" data-start="00:00:27.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">complex linguistic structures from various signals.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:31.920" data-start="00:00:31.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The work we present is limited to text and speech signals.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:35.800" data-start="00:00:35.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but it can be extended to other signals.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:38.640" data-start="00:00:38.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We propose an architecture,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:40.800" data-start="00:00:40.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and we call it GRAIL, which allows</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:42.960" data-start="00:00:42.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the representation and aggregation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:44.640" data-start="00:00:44.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of such rich structures in a systematic fashion.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:50.200" data-start="00:00:50.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">I'll demonstrate a proof of concept</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:52.680" data-start="00:00:52.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">for representing and manipulating data and annotations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:56.560" data-start="00:00:56.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">for the specific purpose of building</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.520" data-start="00:00:58.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">machine learning models that simulate understanding.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:02.880" data-start="00:01:02.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">These technologies have the potential for impact</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:05.680" data-start="00:01:05.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in almost every conceivable field</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.120" data-start="00:01:09.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that generates and uses data.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:13.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:01:13.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:01:13.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We process human language</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:15.040" data-start="00:01:15.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">when our brains receive and assimilate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:16.720" data-start="00:01:16.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">various signals which are then manipulated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.080" data-start="00:01:20.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and interpreted within a syntactic structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:23.880" data-start="00:01:23.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">it's a complex process that I have simplified here</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:27.320" data-start="00:01:27.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">for the purpose of comparison to machine learning.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:30.760" data-start="00:01:30.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Recent machine learning models tend to require</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:33.960" data-start="00:01:33.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a large amount of raw, naturally occurring data</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:37.040" data-start="00:01:37.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and a varying amount of manually enriched data,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:40.200" data-start="00:01:40.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">commonly known as "annotations".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:43.200" data-start="00:01:43.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Owing to the complex and numerous nature</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.960" data-start="00:01:45.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of linguistic phenomena, we have most often used</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:49.960" data-start="00:01:49.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a divide and conquer approach.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.000" data-start="00:01:53.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The strength of this approach is that it allows us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:55.400" data-start="00:01:55.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to focus on a single, or perhaps a few related</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:58.160" data-start="00:01:58.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">linguistic phenomena.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:00.440" data-start="00:02:00.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The weaknesses are the universe of these phenomena</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.880" data-start="00:02:03.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">keep expanding, as language itself</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:07.240" data-start="00:02:07.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">evolves and changes over time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:09.360" data-start="00:02:09.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and second, this approach requires an additional task</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:13.120" data-start="00:02:13.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of aggregating the interpretations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:14.840" data-start="00:02:14.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">creating more opportunities for computer error.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:18.360" data-start="00:02:18.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Our challenge, then, is to find the sweet spot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:21.520" data-start="00:02:21.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that allows us to encode complex information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:25.240" data-start="00:02:25.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">without the use of manual annotation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:27.720" data-start="00:02:27.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or without the additional task of aggregation by computers.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:34.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:02:34.560]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:02:34.560" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So what do I mean by "annotation"?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:37.120" data-start="00:02:37.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">In this talk the word annotation refers to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:39.760" data-start="00:02:39.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the manual assignment of certain attributes</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:43.520" data-start="00:02:43.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to portions of a signal which is necessary</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:48.640" data-start="00:02:48.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to perform the end task.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:51.640" data-start="00:02:51.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">For example, in order for the algorithm</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:54.440" data-start="00:02:54.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to accurately interpret a pronoun,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:57.440" data-start="00:02:57.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">it needs to know that pronoun,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.280" data-start="00:03:00.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">what that pronoun refers back to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:03.800" data-start="00:03:03.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We may find this task trivial, however,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:06.720" data-start="00:03:06.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">current algorithms repeatedly fail in this task.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:10.600" data-start="00:03:10.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So the complexities of understanding</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:13.320" data-start="00:03:13.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in computational linguistics require annotation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:16.640" data-start="00:03:16.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The world annotation itself is a useful example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:20.800" data-start="00:03:20.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because it also reminds us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:22.680" data-start="00:03:22.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that words have multiple meetings</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.120" data-start="00:03:25.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as annotation itself does—</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:27.520" data-start="00:03:27.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">just as I needed to define it in this context,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:30.560" data-start="00:03:30.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">so that my message won't be misinterpreted.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:33.800" data-start="00:03:33.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So, too, must annotators do this for algorithms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:39.040" data-start="00:03:39.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">through the manual intervention.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:43.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:03:43.240]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:03:43.240" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Learning from raw data</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:44.760" data-start="00:03:44.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">(commonly known as unsupervised learning)</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:47.040" data-start="00:03:47.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">poses limitations for machine learning.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:50.080" data-start="00:03:50.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">As I described, modeling complex phenomena</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.040" data-start="00:03:53.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">need manual annotations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:55.560" data-start="00:03:55.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The learning algorithm uses these annotations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:58.560" data-start="00:03:58.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as examples to build statistical models.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:01.320" data-start="00:04:01.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This is called supervised learning.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:04.880" data-start="00:04:04.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Without going into too much detail,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:06.320" data-start="00:04:06.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">I'll simply note that the recent popularity</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:10.040" data-start="00:04:10.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of the concept of deep learning</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:12.520" data-start="00:04:12.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is that evolutionary step</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:14.680" data-start="00:04:14.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where we have learned to train models</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:17.320" data-start="00:04:17.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">using trillions of parameters in ways that they can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:20.800" data-start="00:04:20.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">learn richer hierarchical structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:25.080" data-start="00:04:25.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">from very large amounts of annotate, unannotated data.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:29.400" data-start="00:04:29.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">These models can then be fine-tuned,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:32.320" data-start="00:04:32.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">using varying amounts of annotated examples</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:35.600" data-start="00:04:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">depending on the complexity of the task</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:37.640" data-start="00:04:37.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to generate better predictions.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:39.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:04:39.680]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:04:39.680" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">As you might imagine, manually annotating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:44.920" data-start="00:04:44.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">complex, linguistic phenomena</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:47.360" data-start="00:04:47.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">can be very specific, labor-intensive task.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:51.720" data-start="00:04:51.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">For example, imagine if we were</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:54.280" data-start="00:04:54.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to go back through this presentation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:56.400" data-start="00:04:56.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and connect all the pronouns</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.400" data-start="00:04:58.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with the nouns to which they refer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:59.920" data-start="00:04:59.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Even for a short 18 min presentation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:03.240" data-start="00:05:03.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this would require hundreds of annotations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:05.240" data-start="00:05:05.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The models we build are only as good</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:08.520" data-start="00:05:08.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as the quality of the annotations we make.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:11.120" data-start="00:05:11.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We need guidelines</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:12.680" data-start="00:05:12.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that ensure that the annotations are done</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:15.760" data-start="00:05:15.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">by at least two humans who have substantial agreement</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:19.720" data-start="00:05:19.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with each other in their interpretations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:22.120" data-start="00:05:22.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We know that if we try to trade a model using annotations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:25.600" data-start="00:05:25.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that are very subjective, or have more noise,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:28.520" data-start="00:05:28.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we will receive poor predictions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:30.920" data-start="00:05:30.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Additionally, there is the concern of introducing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:33.680" data-start="00:05:33.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">various unexpected biases into one's models.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:37.080" data-start="00:05:37.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So annotation is really both an art and a science.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:44.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:05:44.400]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:05:44.400" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">In the remaining time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:47.440" data-start="00:05:47.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we will turn to two fundamental questions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:50.000" data-start="00:05:50.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">First, how can we develop a unified representation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.240" data-start="00:05:54.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of data and annotations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:55.600" data-start="00:05:55.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that encompasses arbitrary levels of linguistic information?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:59.760" data-start="00:05:59.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">There is a long history of attempting to answer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:03.840" data-start="00:06:03.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this first question.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:04.840" data-start="00:06:04.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This history is documented in our recent article,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:08.840" data-start="00:06:08.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you can refer to that article.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:11.520" data-start="00:06:11.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It will be on the website.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.720" data-start="00:06:16.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It is as if we, as a community,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:19.000" data-start="00:06:19.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">have been searching for our own Holy Grail.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:22.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:06:22.520]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:22.520" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The second question we will pose is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:26.520" data-start="00:06:26.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">what role might Emacs, along with Org mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:30.160" data-start="00:06:30.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">play in this process?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:31.920" data-start="00:06:31.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Well, the solution itself may not be tied to Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:35.360" data-start="00:06:35.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Emacs has built in capabilities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:38.360" data-start="00:06:38.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that could be useful for evaluating potential solutions.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:42.600" data-start="00:06:42.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It's also one of the most extensively documented</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:45.760" data-start="00:06:45.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">pieces of software and the most customizable</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:48.520" data-start="00:06:48.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">piece of software that I have ever come across,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:51.600" data-start="00:06:51.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and many would agree with that.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:55.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:06:55.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:06:55.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">In order to approach this second question,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:00.640" data-start="00:07:00.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we turn to the complex structure of language itself.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:03.920" data-start="00:07:03.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">At first glance, language appears to us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:07.680" data-start="00:07:07.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as a series of words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:09.880" data-start="00:07:09.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Words form sentences, sentences form paragraphs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:13.440" data-start="00:07:13.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and paragraphs form completed text.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:16.240" data-start="00:07:16.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">If this was a sufficient description</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:19.040" data-start="00:07:19.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of the complexity of language,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:21.160" data-start="00:07:21.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">all of us would be able to speak and read</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:24.200" data-start="00:07:24.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">at least ten different languages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:26.560" data-start="00:07:26.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We know it is much more complex than this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:29.280" data-start="00:07:29.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">There is a rich, underlying recursive tree structure--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:33.200" data-start="00:07:33.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in fact, many possible tree structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:36.440" data-start="00:07:36.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">which makes a particular sequence meaningful</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:39.440" data-start="00:07:39.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and many others meaningless.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:42.080" data-start="00:07:42.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">One of the better understood tree structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:45.240" data-start="00:07:45.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is the syntactic structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:47.120" data-start="00:07:47.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">While natural language</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:49.440" data-start="00:07:49.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">has rich ambiguities and complexities,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:51.680" data-start="00:07:51.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">programming languages are designed to be parsed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:55.120" data-start="00:07:55.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and interpreted deterministically.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:57.000" data-start="00:07:57.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Emacs has been used for programming very effectively.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:02.160" data-start="00:08:02.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So there is a potential for using Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:05.360" data-start="00:08:05.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as a tool for annotation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:06.560" data-start="00:08:06.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This would significantly improve our current set of tools.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:10.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:08:10.800]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:08:10.800" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It is important to note that most of the annotation tools</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:16.560" data-start="00:08:16.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that have been developed over the past few decades</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:19.640" data-start="00:08:19.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">have relied on graphical interfaces,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:22.880" data-start="00:08:22.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">even those used for enriching textual information.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:26.920" data-start="00:08:26.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Most of the tools in current use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:30.400" data-start="00:08:30.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">are designed for a end user to add very specific,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:36.160" data-start="00:08:36.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">very restricted information.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:38.640" data-start="00:08:38.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We have not really made use of the potential</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:42.800" data-start="00:08:42.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that an editor or a rich editing environment like Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:45.640" data-start="00:08:45.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">can add to the mix.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:47.240" data-start="00:08:47.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Emacs has long enabled the editing of, the manipulation of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:52.480" data-start="00:08:52.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">complex embedded tree structures abundant in source code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.360" data-start="00:08:56.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So it's not difficult to imagine that it would have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:58.600" data-start="00:08:58.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">many capabilities that we we need</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:00.360" data-start="00:09:00.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to represent actual language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:02.600" data-start="00:09:02.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">In fact, it already does that with features</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:04.760" data-start="00:09:04.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that allow us to quickly navigate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:06.400" data-start="00:09:06.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">through sentences and paragraphs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:07.920" data-start="00:09:07.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and we don't need a few key strokes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:09.800" data-start="00:09:09.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Or to add various text properties to text spans</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:13.600" data-start="00:09:13.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to create overlays, to name but a few.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:17.040" data-start="00:09:17.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Emacs figured out this way to handle Unicode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:22.720" data-start="00:09:22.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">so you don't even have to worry about the complexity</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:26.800" data-start="00:09:26.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of managing multiple languages.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:29.440" data-start="00:09:29.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It's built into Emacs. In fact, this is not the first time</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:34.040" data-start="00:09:34.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Emacs has been used for linguistic analysis.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:37.400" data-start="00:09:37.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">One of the breakthrough moments in language,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:41.160" data-start="00:09:41.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">natural language processing was the creation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:44.440" data-start="00:09:44.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of manually created syntactic trees</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:48.640" data-start="00:09:48.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">for a 1 million word collection</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:50.440" data-start="00:09:50.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of Wall Street Journal articles.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:52.400" data-start="00:09:52.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This was else around 1992</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:54.880" data-start="00:09:54.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">before Java or graphical interfaces were common.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:59.280" data-start="00:09:59.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The tool that was used to create that corpus was Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:03.280" data-start="00:10:03.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It was created at UPenn, and is famously known as</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:08.960" data-start="00:10:08.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the Penn Treebank. '92 was about when</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:12.720" data-start="00:10:12.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the Linguistic Data Consortium was also established,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:16.440" data-start="00:10:16.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and it's been about 30 years</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:18.040" data-start="00:10:18.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that it has been creating various</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:20.720" data-start="00:10:20.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">language-related resources.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:22.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:10:22.360]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:10:22.360" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Org mode--in particular, the outlining mode,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:28.520" data-start="00:10:28.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or rather the enhanced form of outlining mode--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:32.400" data-start="00:10:32.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">allows us to create rich outlines,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:35.600" data-start="00:10:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">attaching properties to nodes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:37.800" data-start="00:10:37.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and provides commands for easily customizing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:41.120" data-start="00:10:41.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">sorting of various pieces of information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:43.880" data-start="00:10:43.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as per one's requirement.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:45.640" data-start="00:10:45.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This can also be a very useful tool.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:50.240" data-start="00:10:50.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This enhanced form of outline-mode adds more power to Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:10:59.160" data-start="00:10:59.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It provides commands for easily customizing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:03.360" data-start="00:11:03.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and filtering information,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:05.160" data-start="00:11:05.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">while at the same time hiding unnecessary context.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:09.000" data-start="00:11:09.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It also allows structural editing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:11.920" data-start="00:11:11.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This can be a very useful tool to enrich corpora</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:16.040" data-start="00:11:16.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where we are focusing on limited amount of phenomena.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:20.920" data-start="00:11:20.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The two together allow us to create</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:24.520" data-start="00:11:24.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a rich representation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:27.200" data-start="00:11:27.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that can simultaneously capture multiple possible sequences,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:33.000" data-start="00:11:33.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">capture details necessary to recreate the original source,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:38.760" data-start="00:11:38.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">allow the creation of hierarchical representation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:42.080" data-start="00:11:42.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">provide structural editing capabilities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:44.680" data-start="00:11:44.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that can take advantage of the concept of inheritance</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:47.440" data-start="00:11:47.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">within the tree structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:49.000" data-start="00:11:49.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Together they allow local manipulations of structures,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:54.280" data-start="00:11:54.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">thereby minimizing data coupling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:56.200" data-start="00:11:56.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The concept of tags in Org mode</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:11:59.120" data-start="00:11:59.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">complement the hierarchy part.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:01.600" data-start="00:12:01.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Hierarchies can be very rigid,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:03.840" data-start="00:12:03.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but to tags on hierarchies,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:06.040" data-start="00:12:06.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we can have a multifaceted representations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:08.840" data-start="00:12:08.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">As a matter of fact, Org mode has the ability for the tags</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:12.760" data-start="00:12:12.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to have their own hierarchical structure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:15.040" data-start="00:12:15.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">which further enhances the representational power.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:18.640" data-start="00:12:18.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">All of this can be done as a sequence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:22.640" data-start="00:12:22.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of mostly functional data transformations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:25.680" data-start="00:12:25.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because most of the capabilities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:27.440" data-start="00:12:27.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">can be configured and customized.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:29.760" data-start="00:12:29.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It is not necessary to do everything at once.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:32.800" data-start="00:12:32.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Instead, it allows us to incrementally increase</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:36.200" data-start="00:12:36.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the complexity of the representation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:37.920" data-start="00:12:37.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Finally, all of this can be done</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:39.800" data-start="00:12:39.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in plain-text representation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:42.360" data-start="00:12:42.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">which comes with its own advantages.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:45.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:12:45.480]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:12:45.480" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now let's take a simple example.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:50.680" data-start="00:12:50.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This is a a short video that I'll play.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:56.000" data-start="00:12:56.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The sentence is "I saw the moon with a telescope,"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:12:59.680" data-start="00:12:59.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and let's just make a copy of the sentence.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:04.000" data-start="00:13:04.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">What we can do now is to see:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:09.200" data-start="00:13:09.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">what does this sentence comprise?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:11.880" data-start="00:13:11.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It has a noun phrase "I,"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:13.680" data-start="00:13:13.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">followed by a word "saw."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:17.480" data-start="00:13:17.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Then "the moon" is another noun phrase,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:21.360" data-start="00:13:21.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and "with the telescope" is a prepositional phrase.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:24.840" data-start="00:13:24.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now one thing that you might remember,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:30.760" data-start="00:13:30.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">from grammar school or syntax is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:36.120" data-start="00:13:36.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">there is a syntactic structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:41.280" data-start="00:13:41.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And if you in this particular case--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:44.360" data-start="00:13:44.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because we know that the moon is not typically</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:47.920" data-start="00:13:47.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">something that can hold the telescope,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:51.680" data-start="00:13:51.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that the seeing must be done by me or "I,"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:13:56.240" data-start="00:13:56.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and the telescope must be in my hand,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:01.040" data-start="00:14:01.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or "I" am viewing the moon with a telescope.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:04.480" data-start="00:14:04.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">However, it is possible that in a different context</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:13.520" data-start="00:14:13.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the moon could be referring to an animated character</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:17.160" data-start="00:14:17.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in a animated series, and could actually hold the telescope.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:22.320" data-start="00:14:22.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And this is one of the most--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:23.480" data-start="00:14:23.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the oldest and one of the most--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:24.840" data-start="00:14:24.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and in that case the situation might be</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:26.320" data-start="00:14:26.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that I'm actually seeing the moon holding a telescope...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:30.960" data-start="00:14:30.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">I mean. The moon is holding the telescope,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:36.080" data-start="00:14:36.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and I'm just seeing the moon holding the telescope.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:40.960" data-start="00:14:40.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Complex linguistic ambiguity or linguistic</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:48.000" data-start="00:14:48.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">phenomena that requires world knowledge,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:53.600" data-start="00:14:53.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and it's called the PP attachment problem</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:55.720" data-start="00:14:55.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where the propositional phrase attachment</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:14:59.240" data-start="00:14:59.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">can be ambiguous, and various different contextual cues</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:04.600" data-start="00:15:04.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">have to be used to resolve the ambiguity.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:06.880" data-start="00:15:06.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So in this case, as you saw,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:09.080" data-start="00:15:09.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">both the readings are technically true,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:11.200" data-start="00:15:11.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">depending on different contexts.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:13.960" data-start="00:15:13.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So one thing we could do is just</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:16.600" data-start="00:15:16.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to cut the tree and duplicate it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:19.920" data-start="00:15:19.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and then let's create another node</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:21.600" data-start="00:15:21.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and call it an "OR" node.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:24.480" data-start="00:15:24.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And because we are saying,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:26.120" data-start="00:15:26.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this is one of the two interpretations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:28.360" data-start="00:15:28.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now let's call one interpretation "a",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:32.160" data-start="00:15:32.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and that interpretation essentially</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:36.160" data-start="00:15:36.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is this child of that node "a"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:39.320" data-start="00:15:39.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and that says that the moon</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:41.800" data-start="00:15:41.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is holding the telescope.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:44.000" data-start="00:15:44.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now we can create another representation "b"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:46.360" data-start="00:15:46.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where we capture the other interpretation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:53.920" data-start="00:15:53.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where this, the act, the moon or--I am actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:15:59.960" data-start="00:15:59.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">holding the telescope,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:00.520" data-start="00:16:00.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and watching the moon using it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:06.800" data-start="00:16:06.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So now we have two separate interpretations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:09.200" data-start="00:16:09.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in the same structure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:11.680" data-start="00:16:11.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and all we do--we're able to do is with this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:15.520" data-start="00:16:15.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with very quick key strokes now...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:18.160" data-start="00:16:18.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">While we are at it, let's add another interesting thing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:22.440" data-start="00:16:22.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this node that represents "I":</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:25.160" data-start="00:16:25.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">"He." It can be "She".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:28.920" data-start="00:16:28.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">It can be "the children," or it can be "The people".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:35.760" data-start="00:16:35.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Basically, any entity that has the capability to "see"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:45.040" data-start="00:16:45.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">can be substituted in this particular node.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:53.360" data-start="00:16:53.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Let's see what we have here now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:16:57.400" data-start="00:16:57.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We just are getting sort of a zoom view</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:01.240" data-start="00:17:01.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of the entire structure, what we created,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:04.600" data-start="00:17:04.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and essentially you can see that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:08.040" data-start="00:17:08.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">by just, you know, using a few keystrokes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:11.880" data-start="00:17:11.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we were able to capture two different interpretations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:17.840" data-start="00:17:17.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of a a simple sentence,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:20.880" data-start="00:17:20.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and they are also able to add</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:23.760" data-start="00:17:23.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">these alternate pieces of information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:27.800" data-start="00:17:27.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that could help machine learning algorithms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:30.560" data-start="00:17:30.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">generalize better.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:32.440" data-start="00:17:32.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">All right.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:17:36.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:17:36.240]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:17:36.240" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now, let's look at the next thing. So in a sense,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:40.360" data-start="00:17:40.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we can use this power of functional data structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:46.680" data-start="00:17:46.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to represent various potentially conflicting</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:50.240" data-start="00:17:50.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and structural readings of that piece of text.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:55.560" data-start="00:17:55.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">In addition to that, we can also create more texts,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:58.080" data-start="00:17:58.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">each with different structure,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:17:59.800" data-start="00:17:59.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and have them all in the same place.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:01.560" data-start="00:18:01.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This allows us to address the interpretation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:04.240" data-start="00:18:04.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of a static sentence that might be occurring in the world,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:06.880" data-start="00:18:06.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">while simultaneously inserting information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:09.640" data-start="00:18:09.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that would add more value to it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:11.520" data-start="00:18:11.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This makes the enrichment process also very efficient.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:15.000" data-start="00:18:15.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Additionally, we can envision</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:19.520" data-start="00:18:19.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a power user of the future, or present,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:24.000" data-start="00:18:24.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">who can not only annotate a span,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:27.480" data-start="00:18:27.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but also edit the information in situ</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:31.280" data-start="00:18:31.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in a way that would help machine algorithms</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:34.640" data-start="00:18:34.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">generalize better by making more efficient use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:36.880" data-start="00:18:36.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of the annotations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:37.720" data-start="00:18:37.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So together, Emacs and Org mode can speed up</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:41.520" data-start="00:18:41.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the enrichment of the signals</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:42.960" data-start="00:18:42.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in a way that allows us</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:44.520" data-start="00:18:44.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to focus on certain aspects and ignore others.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:47.720" data-start="00:18:47.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Extremely complex landscape of rich structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:50.840" data-start="00:18:50.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">can be captured consistently,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:53.040" data-start="00:18:53.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in a fashion that allows computers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:55.640" data-start="00:18:55.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to understand language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:18:56.760" data-start="00:18:56.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We can then build tools to enhance the tasks</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:00.880" data-start="00:19:00.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that we do in our everyday life.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:03.320" data-start="00:19:03.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">YAMR is acronym, or the file's type or specification</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:10.760" data-start="00:19:10.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that we are creating to capture this new</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:15.240" data-start="00:19:15.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">rich representation.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:19:17.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:19:17.680]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:19:17.680" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We'll now look at an example of spontaneous speech</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:21.960" data-start="00:19:21.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that occurs in spoken conversations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:24.800" data-start="00:19:24.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Conversations frequently contain errors in speech:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:28.600" data-start="00:19:28.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">interruptions, disfluencies,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:30.800" data-start="00:19:30.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">verbal sounds such as cough or laugh,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:33.960" data-start="00:19:33.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and other noises.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:35.040" data-start="00:19:35.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">In this sense, spontaneous speech is similar</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:38.200" data-start="00:19:38.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to a functional data stream.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:39.800" data-start="00:19:39.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We cannot take back words that come out of our mouth,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:42.760" data-start="00:19:42.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but we tend to make mistakes, and we correct ourselves</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:47.240" data-start="00:19:47.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">as soon as we realize that we have made--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:49.040" data-start="00:19:49.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we have misspoken.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:50.680" data-start="00:19:50.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This process manifests through a combination</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:53.160" data-start="00:19:53.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of a handful of mechanisms, including immediate correction</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:19:56.280" data-start="00:19:56.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">after an error, and we do this unconsciously.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:00.960" data-start="00:20:00.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Computers, on the other hand,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:02.720" data-start="00:20:02.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">must be taught to understand these cases.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:06.640" data-start="00:20:06.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">What we see here is a example document or outline,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:12.800" data-start="00:20:12.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or part of a document that illustrates</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:18.120" data-start="00:20:18.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">various different aspects of the representation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:22.920" data-start="00:20:22.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We don't have a lot of time to go through</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:25.920" data-start="00:20:25.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">many of the details.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:28.240" data-start="00:20:28.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">I would highly encourage you to play a...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:31.760" data-start="00:20:31.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">I'm planning on making some videos, or ascii cinemas,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:39.160" data-start="00:20:39.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that I'll be posting, and you can,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:42.560" data-start="00:20:42.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">if you're interested, you can go through those.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:46.760" data-start="00:20:46.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The idea here is to try to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:50.360" data-start="00:20:50.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a slightly more complex use case.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:54.600" data-start="00:20:54.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">But again, given the time constraint</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:20:57.640" data-start="00:20:57.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and the amount of information</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:00.280" data-start="00:21:00.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that needs to fit in the screen,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:01.520" data-start="00:21:01.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this may not be very informative,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:05.560" data-start="00:21:05.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but at least it will give you some idea</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:08.400" data-start="00:21:08.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of what can be possible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:10.440" data-start="00:21:10.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And in this particular case, what you're seeing is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:13.280" data-start="00:21:13.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">there is a sentence which is "What I'm I'm tr- telling now."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:18.320" data-start="00:21:18.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Essentially, there is a repetition of the word "I'm",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:21.160" data-start="00:21:21.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and then there is a partial word</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:23.280" data-start="00:21:23.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that somebody tried to say "telling",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:25.160" data-start="00:21:25.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but started saying "tr-", and then corrected themselves</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:29.600" data-start="00:21:29.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and said, "telling now."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:30.960" data-start="00:21:30.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So in this case, you see, we can capture words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:39.240" data-start="00:21:39.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or a sequence of words, or a sequence of tokens.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:44.920" data-start="00:21:44.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">One thing to... An interesting thing to note is that in NLP,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:52.280" data-start="00:21:52.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">sometimes we have to break typically</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:21:55.320" data-start="00:21:55.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">words that don't have spaces into two separate words,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:01.200" data-start="00:22:01.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">especially contractions like "I'm",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:04.120" data-start="00:22:04.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">so the syntactic parser needs needs two separate nodes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:08.200" data-start="00:22:08.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">But anyway, so I'll... You can see that here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:11.200" data-start="00:22:11.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The other... This view. What this view shows is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:15.760" data-start="00:22:15.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with each of the nodes in the sentence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:19.760" data-start="00:22:19.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or in the representation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:23.080" data-start="00:22:23.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you can have a lot of different properties</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:26.080" data-start="00:22:26.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that you can attach to them,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:27.560" data-start="00:22:27.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and these properties are typically hidden,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:30.120" data-start="00:22:30.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">like you saw in the earlier slide.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:32.720" data-start="00:22:32.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">But you can make use of all these properties</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:35.600" data-start="00:22:35.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to do various kind of searches and filtering.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:39.440" data-start="00:22:39.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And on the right hand side here--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:43.520" data-start="00:22:43.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this is actually not a legitimate syntax--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:48.800" data-start="00:22:48.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but on the right are descriptions</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:51.280" data-start="00:22:51.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of what each of these represent.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:53.480" data-start="00:22:53.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">All the information is also available in the article.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:22:57.320" data-start="00:22:57.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">You can see there... It shows how much rich context</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:04.280" data-start="00:23:04.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you can capture.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:05.880" data-start="00:23:05.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This is just a closer snapshot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:08.800" data-start="00:23:08.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of the properties on the node,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:10.160" data-start="00:23:10.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you can see we can have things like,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:13.120" data-start="00:23:13.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">whether the word is a token or not,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:14.800" data-start="00:23:14.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or that it's incomplete, whether some words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:17.360" data-start="00:23:17.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">might want to be filtered out for parsing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:19.960" data-start="00:23:19.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and we can say this: PARSE_IGNORE,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:23.040" data-start="00:23:23.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or some words or restart markers...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:25.520" data-start="00:23:25.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We can mark, add a RESTART_MARKER, or sometimes,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:29.240" data-start="00:23:29.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">some of these might have durations. Things like that.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:23:32.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:23:32.000]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:23:32.000" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The other fascinating thing of this representation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:38.800" data-start="00:23:38.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is that you can edit properties in the column view.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:42.600" data-start="00:23:42.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And suddenly, you have this tabular data structure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:45.400" data-start="00:23:45.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">combined with the hierarchical data structure.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:48.880" data-start="00:23:48.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And as you can--you may not be able to see it here,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:53.120" data-start="00:23:53.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but what has also happened here is that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:23:56.880" data-start="00:23:56.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">some of the tags have been inherited</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:01.160" data-start="00:24:01.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">from the earlier nodes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:02.480" data-start="00:24:02.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And so you get a much fuller picture of things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:07.920" data-start="00:24:07.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Essentially you, can filter out things</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:13.920" data-start="00:24:13.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that you want to process,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:15.320" data-start="00:24:15.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">process them, and then reintegrate it into the whole.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:24:20.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:24:20.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:24:20.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So, in conclusion, today we have proposed and demonstrated</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:25.480" data-start="00:24:25.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the use of an architecture (GRAIL),</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:27.560" data-start="00:24:27.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">which allows the representation, manipulation,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:31.320" data-start="00:24:31.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and aggregation of rich linguistic structures</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:34.760" data-start="00:24:34.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in a systematic fashion.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:36.520" data-start="00:24:36.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We have shown how GRAIL advances the tools</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:41.360" data-start="00:24:41.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">available for building machine learning models</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:44.600" data-start="00:24:44.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that simulate understanding.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:46.880" data-start="00:24:46.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Thank you very much for your time and attention today.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:51.680" data-start="00:24:51.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">My contact information is on this slide.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:24:54.640" data-start="00:24:54.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">If you are interested in an additional example</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:02.600" data-start="00:25:02.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that demonstrates the representation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:05.440" data-start="00:25:05.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of speech and written text together,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:08.040" data-start="00:25:08.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">please continue watching.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:10.720" data-start="00:25:10.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Otherwise, you can stop here</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:12.200" data-start="00:25:12.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and enjoy the rest of the conference.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:25:15.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:25:15.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:25:15.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Welcome to the bonus material.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:39.080" data-start="00:25:39.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">I'm glad for those of you who are stuck around.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:43.960" data-start="00:25:43.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">We are now going to examine an instance</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:46.560" data-start="00:25:46.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of speech and text signals together</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:49.160" data-start="00:25:49.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that produce multiple layers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:51.480" data-start="00:25:51.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">When we have--when we take a spoken conversation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:54.840" data-start="00:25:54.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and use the best language processing models available,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:25:58.720" data-start="00:25:58.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we suddenly hit a hard spot</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:00.680" data-start="00:26:00.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because the tools are typically not trained</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:03.240" data-start="00:26:03.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to filter out the unnecessary cruft</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:05.360" data-start="00:26:05.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in order to automatically interpret</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:07.560" data-start="00:26:07.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the part of what is being said</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:09.560" data-start="00:26:09.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that is actually relevant.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:11.800" data-start="00:26:11.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Over time, language researchers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:14.640" data-start="00:26:14.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">have created many interdependent layers of annotations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:17.720" data-start="00:26:17.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">yet the assumptions underlying them are seldom the same.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:21.040" data-start="00:26:21.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Piecing together such related but disjointed annotations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:25.040" data-start="00:26:25.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">on their predictions poses a huge challenge.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:28.040" data-start="00:26:28.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This is another place where we can leverage</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:30.720" data-start="00:26:30.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the data model underlying the Emacs editor,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:33.120" data-start="00:26:33.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">along with the structural editing capabilities</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:35.360" data-start="00:26:35.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of Org mode to improve current tools.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:38.520" data-start="00:26:38.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Let's take this very simple looking utterance.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:42.840" data-start="00:26:42.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">"Um {lipsmack} and that's it. ({laugh})"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:48.040" data-start="00:26:48.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Looks like the person-- so this is--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:50.320" data-start="00:26:50.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">what you are seeing here is a transcript of an audio signal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:26:54.520" data-start="00:26:54.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that has a lip smack and a laugh as part of it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:00.760" data-start="00:27:00.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and there is also a "Um" like interjection.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:04.200" data-start="00:27:04.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So this has a few interesting noises</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:08.200" data-start="00:27:08.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and specific things that would be illustrative</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:14.000" data-start="00:27:14.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of what we are going to, how we are going to represent it.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:27:20.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:27:20.480]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:27:20.480" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Okay. So let's say you want to have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:25.840" data-start="00:27:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a syntactic analysis of this sentence or utterance.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:28.880" data-start="00:27:28.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">One common technique people use</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:30.960" data-start="00:27:30.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is just to remove the cruft, and, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:32.880" data-start="00:27:32.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">write some rules, clean up the utterance,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:35.080" data-start="00:27:35.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">make it look like it's proper English,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:36.720" data-start="00:27:36.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and then, you know, tokenize it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:40.240" data-start="00:27:40.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and basically just use standard tools to process it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:43.080" data-start="00:27:43.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">But in that process, they end up eliminating</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:47.280" data-start="00:27:47.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">valid pieces of signal that have meaning to others</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:51.120" data-start="00:27:51.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">studying different phenomena of language.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:52.800" data-start="00:27:52.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Here you have the rich transcript,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:27:56.480" data-start="00:27:56.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the input to the syntactic parser.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:00.120" data-start="00:28:00.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">As you can see, there is a little tokenization happening</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:05.920" data-start="00:28:05.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where you'll be inserting space</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:07.200" data-start="00:28:07.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">between "that" and the contracted is ('s),</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:12.120" data-start="00:28:12.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and between the period and the "it,"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:15.600" data-start="00:28:15.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and the output of the syntactic parser is shown below.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:18.200" data-start="00:28:18.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">which (surprise) is a S-expression.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:21.640" data-start="00:28:21.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Like I said, the parse trees, when they were created,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:24.920" data-start="00:28:24.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and still largely when they are used, are S-expressions,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:29.800" data-start="00:28:29.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and most of the viewers here</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:33.000" data-start="00:28:33.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">should not have much problem reading it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:35.120" data-start="00:28:35.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">You can see this tree structure</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:37.280" data-start="00:28:37.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of this syntactic parser here.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:28:39.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:28:39.280]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:28:39.280" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now let's say you want to integrate</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:40.920" data-start="00:28:40.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">phonetic information or phonetic layer</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:44.480" data-start="00:28:44.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that's in the audio signal, and do some analysis.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:49.120" data-start="00:28:49.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Now, it would need you to do a few-- take a few steps.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:28:57.520" data-start="00:28:57.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">First, you would need to align the transcript</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:01.680" data-start="00:29:01.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with the audio. This process is called forced alignment,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:06.480" data-start="00:29:06.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where you already know what the transcript is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:10.400" data-start="00:29:10.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you have the audio, and you can get a good alignment</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:14.600" data-start="00:29:14.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">using both pieces of information.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:17.600" data-start="00:29:17.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And this is typically a technique that is used to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:20.120" data-start="00:29:20.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">create training data for training</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:23.080" data-start="00:29:23.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">automatic speech recognizers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:25.840" data-start="00:29:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">One interesting thing is that in order to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:29.640" data-start="00:29:29.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">this forced alignment, you have to keep</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:32.880" data-start="00:29:32.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the non-speech events in transcript,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:35.800" data-start="00:29:35.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because they consume some audio signal,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:39.080" data-start="00:29:39.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and if you don't have that signal,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:41.400" data-start="00:29:41.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the alignment process doesn't know exactly...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:44.400" data-start="00:29:44.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you know, it doesn't do a good job,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:45.760" data-start="00:29:45.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because it needs to align all parts of the signal</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:50.040" data-start="00:29:50.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with something, either pause or silence or noise or words.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:55.000" data-start="00:29:55.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Interestingly, punctuations really don't factor in,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:29:59.720" data-start="00:29:59.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because we don't speak in punctuations.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:01.560" data-start="00:30:01.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So one of the things that you need to do</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:04.240" data-start="00:30:04.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">is remove most of the punctuations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:05.680" data-start="00:30:05.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">although you'll see there are some punctuations</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:08.040" data-start="00:30:08.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that can be kept, or that are to be kept.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:30:12.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:30:12.600]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:30:12.600" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And the other thing is that the alignment has to be done</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:15.320" data-start="00:30:15.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">before tokenization, as it impacts pronunciation.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:20.160" data-start="00:30:20.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">To show an example: Here you see "that's".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:24.400" data-start="00:30:24.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">When it's one word,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:26.920" data-start="00:30:26.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">it has a slightly different pronunciation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:31.960" data-start="00:30:31.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">than when it is two words, which is "that is",</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:35.680" data-start="00:30:35.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">like you can see "is." And so,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:38.400" data-start="00:30:38.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">if you split the tokens or split the words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:44.280" data-start="00:30:44.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in order for syntactic parser to process it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:48.120" data-start="00:30:48.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you would end up getting the wrong phonetic analysis.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:51.600" data-start="00:30:51.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And if you have--if you process it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:54.240" data-start="00:30:54.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">through the phonetic analysis,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:55.320" data-start="00:30:55.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you don't know how to integrate it</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:30:59.160" data-start="00:30:59.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with the tokenized syntax, you can, you know,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:02.720" data-start="00:31:02.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that can be pretty tricky. And a lot of time,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:07.520" data-start="00:31:07.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">people write one-off pieces of code that handle these,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:10.760" data-start="00:31:10.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but the idea here is to try to have a general architecture</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:14.280" data-start="00:31:14.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that seamlessly integrates all these pieces.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:17.240" data-start="00:31:17.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Then you do the syntactic parsing of the remaining tokens.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:21.320" data-start="00:31:21.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Then you align the data and the two annotations,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:24.800" data-start="00:31:24.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and then integrate the two layers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:27.960" data-start="00:31:27.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Once that is done, then you can do all kinds of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:31.360" data-start="00:31:31.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">interesting analysis, and test various hypotheses</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:33.920" data-start="00:31:33.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and generate the statistics,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:35.280" data-start="00:31:35.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">but without that you only are dealing</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:39.360" data-start="00:31:39.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">with one or the other part.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:31:42.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:31:42.880]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:31:42.880" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Let's just take a quick look at how each of the layers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:48.320" data-start="00:31:48.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that are involved look like.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:51.160" data-start="00:31:51.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So this is "Um {lipsmack}, and that's it. {laugh}"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:31:56.720" data-start="00:31:56.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This is the transcript, and on the right hand side,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:00.160" data-start="00:32:00.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you see the same thing as a transcript</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:04.200" data-start="00:32:04.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">listed in a vertical in a column.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:06.240" data-start="00:32:06.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">You'll see why, in just a second.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:08.200" data-start="00:32:08.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And there are some place--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:09.880" data-start="00:32:09.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">there are some rows that are empty,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:11.280" data-start="00:32:11.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">some rows that are wider than the others, and we'll see why.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:15.080" data-start="00:32:15.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">The next is the tokenized sentence</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:19.320" data-start="00:32:19.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">where you have space added,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:20.960" data-start="00:32:20.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you know space between these two tokens:</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:23.600" data-start="00:32:23.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">"that" and the apostrophe "s" ('s),</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:26.600" data-start="00:32:26.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and the "it" and the "period".</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:28.080" data-start="00:32:28.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And you see on the right hand side</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:30.680" data-start="00:32:30.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that the tokens have attributes.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:33.560" data-start="00:32:33.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So there is a token index, and there are 1, 2,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:36.440" data-start="00:32:36.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">you know 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 tokens,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:38.840" data-start="00:32:38.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and each token has a start and end character,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:41.480" data-start="00:32:41.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and space (sp) also has a start and end character,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:45.800" data-start="00:32:45.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and space is represented by a "sp". And there are</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:50.400" data-start="00:32:50.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">these other things that we removed,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:54.320" data-start="00:32:54.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">like the "{LS}" which is for "{lipsmack}"</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:56.240" data-start="00:32:56.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and "{LG}" which is "{laugh}" are showing grayed out,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:32:59.400" data-start="00:32:59.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you'll see why some of these things are grayed out</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:02.440" data-start="00:33:02.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">in a little bit.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:03.400" data-start="00:33:03.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">This is what the forced alignment tool produces.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:11.920" data-start="00:33:11.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Basically, it takes the transcript,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:17.160" data-start="00:33:17.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and this is the transcript</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:19.160" data-start="00:33:19.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that has slightly different symbols,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:24.120" data-start="00:33:24.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because different tools use different symbols</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:26.240" data-start="00:33:26.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and their various configurational things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:28.160" data-start="00:33:28.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">But this is what is used to get an alignment</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:33.680" data-start="00:33:33.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or time alignment with phones.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:36.040" data-start="00:33:36.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So this column shows the phones, and so each word...</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:40.080" data-start="00:33:40.080" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So, for example, "and" has been aligned with these phones,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:43.880" data-start="00:33:43.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and these on the start and end</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:46.880" data-start="00:33:46.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">are essentially temporal or time stamps that it aligned--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:52.960" data-start="00:33:52.960" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that has been aligned to it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:33:54.280" data-start="00:33:54.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Interestingly, sometimes we don't really have any pause</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:00.760" data-start="00:34:00.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or any time duration between some words</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:05.160" data-start="00:34:05.160" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and those are highlighted as gray here.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:08.200" data-start="00:34:08.200" data-video="mainVideo-grail">See, there's this space... Actually</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:12.760" data-start="00:34:12.760" data-video="mainVideo-grail">it does not have any temporal content,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:17.800" data-start="00:34:17.800" data-video="mainVideo-grail">whereas this other space has some duration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:21.320" data-start="00:34:21.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So the ones that have some duration are captured,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:24.840" data-start="00:34:24.840" data-video="mainVideo-grail">while the others are the ones that in the earlier diagram</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:29.520" data-start="00:34:29.520" data-video="mainVideo-grail">we saw were left out.</span></p>
<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/help_with_chapter_markers/#mainVideo-grail" class="subtitle" data-start="00:34:31.320" data-video="mainVideo-grail">[00:34:31.320]</a> <span class="subtitle" data-start="00:34:31.320" title="" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And the aligner actually produces multiple files.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:37.640" data-start="00:34:37.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">One of the files has a different, slightly different</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:44.400" data-start="00:34:44.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">variation on the same information,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:46.680" data-start="00:34:46.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and in this case, you can see</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:50.000" data-start="00:34:50.000" data-video="mainVideo-grail">that the punctuation is missing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:52.400" data-start="00:34:52.400" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and the punctuation is, you know, deliberately missing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:34:57.600" data-start="00:34:57.600" data-video="mainVideo-grail">because there is no time associated with it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:02.280" data-start="00:35:02.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you see that it's not the tokenized sentence--</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:06.440" data-start="00:35:06.440" data-video="mainVideo-grail">a tokenized word. This... Now it gives you a full table,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:17.120" data-start="00:35:17.120" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and you can't really look into it very carefully.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:21.240" data-start="00:35:21.240" data-video="mainVideo-grail">But we can focus on the part that seems legible,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:25.880" data-start="00:35:25.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">or, you know, properly written sentence,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:28.560" data-start="00:35:28.560" data-video="mainVideo-grail">process it and reincorporate it back into the whole.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:32.880" data-start="00:35:32.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">So if somebody wants to look at, for example,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:35.880" data-start="00:35:35.880" data-video="mainVideo-grail">how many pauses the person made while they were talking,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:39.680" data-start="00:35:39.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And they can actually measure the pause, the number,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:42.920" data-start="00:35:42.920" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the duration, and make connections between that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:46.280" data-start="00:35:46.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and the rich syntactic structure that is being produced.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:49.640" data-start="00:35:49.640" data-video="mainVideo-grail">And in order to do that, you have to get these layers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:57.280" data-start="00:35:57.280" data-video="mainVideo-grail">to align with each other,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:35:59.040" data-start="00:35:59.040" data-video="mainVideo-grail">and this table is just a tabular representation</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:04.360" data-start="00:36:04.360" data-video="mainVideo-grail">of the information that we'll be storing in the YAMR file.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:08.680" data-start="00:36:08.680" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Congratulations! You have reached</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:11.720" data-start="00:36:11.720" data-video="mainVideo-grail">the end of this demonstration.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:36:13.480" data-start="00:36:13.480" data-video="mainVideo-grail">Thank you for your time and attention.</span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202022%20grail%3A%20GRAIL---A%20Generalized%20Representation%20and%20Aggregation%20of%20Information%20Layers">emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org</a></p>
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<p><a href="https://emacsconf.org/CategoryLinguistics/">CategoryLinguistics</a></p>
Emacs should become a Wayland compositor
https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/wayland/
Copyright © 2022 Michael Bauer
2022-12-21T14:41:29Z
2022-09-30T20:00:27Z
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<h1>Emacs should become a Wayland compositor</h1>
<p>Michael Bauer
(IRC: permcu, <a href="mailto:perma-curious@posteo.de">perma-curious@posteo.de</a>)</p>
<h1>Talk</h1>
<div class="vid"><video controls preload="none" id="wayland-mainVideo"><source src="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-wayland--emacs-should-become-a-wayland-compositor--michael-bauer--main.webm" />captions="""<track label="English" kind="captions" srclang="en" src="/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-wayland--emacs-should-become-a-wayland-compositor--michael-bauer--main.vtt" default />"""<p><em>Your browser does not support the video tag. Please download the video instead.</em></p></video><div></div><div class="files resources"><ul><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-wayland--emacs-should-become-a-wayland-compositor--michael-bauer--main.webm">Download --main.webm (15MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-wayland--emacs-should-become-a-wayland-compositor--michael-bauer--main.opus">Download --main.opus (6.1MB)</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-wayland--emacs-should-become-a-wayland-compositor--michael-bauer--main.org">Download --main.org</a></li><li><a href="https://media.emacsconf.org/2022/emacsconf-2022-wayland--emacs-should-become-a-wayland-compositor--michael-bauer--main.vtt">Download --main.vtt</a></li><li><a href="https://toobnix.org/w/enc6bnYbm2gHpwrBa6bVjR">View on Toobnix</a></li></ul></div></div>
<h1>Q&A</h1>
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<h1>Description</h1>
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<p></details></p>
<p>Since Emacs learned wayland last year, it can now become a wayland compositor.
Emacs is already a great window manager. Let us embrace this in the wayland
future, where managers become compositors.</p>
<p>In this short talk I would like to convince you that this is a good idea and get
you exciting about the possibilities. I then outline how to go about
implementing this idea.</p>
<p>Afterwards I would very much like to get a discussion started together.</p>
<p>Discussions:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33849556">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33849556</a></li>
</ul>
<h1>Discussion</h1>
<h2>Notes</h2>
<ul>
<li>Call to action - let Michael know if you know anyone else working on
something like this so they can collaborate and not duplicate
effort.</li>
<li>Site (coming soon): perma-curious.eu</li>
<li>I am an EXWM user and would be very happy to test your code! Looks great!</li>
<li>I know of many people quitting EXWM because of the lack of active development. Your project could be a kind of revival!</li>
<li>I would be interested to try it out. I'm on sway right now.</li>
<li>What I mean is that people are moving to other WMs which work or are planned to work with Wayland</li>
<li>sway.el might have something that could be used</li>
<li>Feedback:
<ul>
<li>Thank you very much for the talk and the work.</li>
<li>Thank you for sharing your amazing work!</li>
<li>Yes, thank you for the talk, looks really promising</li>
<li>thank you for the talk</li>
<li>Thanks and great job!</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<h2>Questions and answers</h2>
<ul>
<li>Q: Are you using it as a replacement of EXWM?
<ul>
<li>A: No, not yet, but I'm planning to.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Is this testable?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Have you considered contributing it to emacs core?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Question: this is wayland compositor in Emacs? What different with
XReprarent in X11 ?
<ul>
<li>A:No, I planned it, but no. Does not handle file descriptors.
It's a compositor that talks to Emacs. etc. I don't know what
XReparent is; have to skip that.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:What does it mean for emacs to be "a wayland compositor"? What
can the end users do with it?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: How would multiple monitors be handled? Separate Frames?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Could you make it so you can restart emacs without loging out;
or switch to non emacs buffers while emacs is blocking: these are
the biggest issues with EXWM? Maybe in the future with a different
ui for non emacs buffers.
<ul>
<li>A: </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Did this project can implement <em>mirror</em> of buffer for Emacs
different window?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:How does the single-threaded affects the project?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:this technology need write wayland server? Can it works with
Gnome3 ?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Could there be a emacs-wayland-server and just connect with
emacsclient?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: When you share your code, could you provide the equivalent of an
.xsession script for those who are on EXWM and want to test?
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: there have a demo to show this emacs-wayland-compositor, even it
buggy now? Just curious. <img src="https://emacsconf.org/smileys/smile4.png" alt=";)" />
<ul>
<li>A:</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: So the current limitation is that buffer mirroring doesn't respect different widths/heights?
<ul>
<li>A:(answered - transcript tbd)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Could you use some of this package with other walyand compositers
"probably not all of it" , sway, kde, river, gnome.
<ul>
<li>A:(answered - transcript tbd)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q:Will Wayland support reach feature parity with EXWM in the future?
Will there be other tradeoffs?
<ul>
<li>A:(answered - transcript tbd)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: What is the biggest difference between Xorg and wayland that you
have found?
<ul>
<li>A:(answered - transcript tbd)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: Did you know EAF
<a href="https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework">https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework</a> ? </li>
<li>Q: Do you have the code available somewhere (git repo)?
<ul>
<li><a href="https://perma-curious.eu">https://perma-curious.eu</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Q: So the current limitation is that buffer mirroring doesn't respect different widths/heights?</li>
</ul>
<p>Other discussions from IRC:</p>
<ul>
<li>If I understand correctly, this project is more like philosophy of EXWM, but it not based on X11, instead based on Wayland.</li>
</ul>
<p><a name="wayland-mainVideo-transcript"></a></p>
<h1>Transcript</h1>
<p><span class="subtitle" title="00:00:00.000" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Hello EmacsConf and hello fellow Emacs fans.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:08.000" data-start="00:00:08.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">My name is Michael Bauer, and I'm from Germany.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:10.920" data-start="00:00:10.920" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I'm gonna talk to you about "Why and how Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:13.440" data-start="00:00:13.440" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">should become a Wayland compositor."</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:17.200" data-start="00:00:17.200" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And it already kinda is a Wayland compositor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:21.740" data-start="00:00:21.740" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">This talk is composed by Wayland and Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:25.000" data-start="00:00:25.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">If I'm talking about a Wayland compositor</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:26.840" data-start="00:00:26.840" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">or Emacs as Wayland compositor,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:29.360" data-start="00:00:29.360" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I mean it in the sense that</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:30.440" data-start="00:00:30.440" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">EXWM is an X window manager. I hope you know EXWM.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:36.000" data-start="00:00:36.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">So, why?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:41.000" data-start="00:00:41.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Emacs can do Wayland now, that was a stopper</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:44.120" data-start="00:00:44.120" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">before, and now it's solved with <code>pgtk</code> branch.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:49.000" data-start="00:00:49.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It makes the Emacs toolbox bigger,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:53.240" data-start="00:00:53.240" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">which is always a good thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:55.000" data-start="00:00:55.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And the cool thing about Wayland, which is not</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:00:58.440" data-start="00:00:58.440" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">possible under X is, it can run standalone</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:02.280" data-start="00:01:02.280" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">on the Linux kernel interface, or nested under X,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:06.840" data-start="00:01:06.840" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">or even nested under Wayland.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:09.000" data-start="00:01:09.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">The compositor features of Emacs doesn't mean</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:13.840" data-start="00:01:13.840" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">it has to take over the whole output.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:16.960" data-start="00:01:16.960" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It can use them, even if it's just like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:20.560" data-start="00:01:20.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">a normal window or normal program.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:23.000" data-start="00:01:23.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And last reason is,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:25.120" data-start="00:01:25.120" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I want to keep living inside Emacs</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:27.240" data-start="00:01:27.240" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and Wayland is the future, apparently.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:31.000" data-start="00:01:31.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">EXWM use case is the first use case.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:35.000" data-start="00:01:35.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">You take a Wayland surface and put it inside</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:38.400" data-start="00:01:38.400" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">an Emacs window. You see it right below.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:41.520" data-start="00:01:41.520" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">The video of me is a Wayland surface,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:45.880" data-start="00:01:45.880" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and it's inside an Emacs window managed by Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:50.000" data-start="00:01:50.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Emacs does the input, and the clipboard handling,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:53.480" data-start="00:01:53.480" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and can insert itself here, and do great things.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:01:59.000" data-start="00:01:59.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And it's a possibility to Lispify the Linux desktop,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:03.200" data-start="00:02:03.200" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">as Emacs Lispifies the command line.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:08.000" data-start="00:02:08.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">The other use case is the XWidget use case.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:12.960" data-start="00:02:12.960" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I don't know if you know XWidgets.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:17.000" data-start="00:02:17.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's embedded X windows inside Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:19.720" data-start="00:02:19.720" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">There's a web browser available in Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:24.000" data-start="00:02:24.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">With Wayland, you could embed anything that can</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:27.520" data-start="00:02:27.520" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">create a Wayland surface like video, web, or 3D.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:32.000" data-start="00:02:32.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Think OpenGL, something like</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:34.880" data-start="00:02:34.880" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">EmacsGL would be possible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:38.000" data-start="00:02:38.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And we wouldn't have just images like we have so far.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:46.000" data-start="00:02:46.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">So, how to implement this Wayland compositor?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:50.560" data-start="00:02:50.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I'm going to tell you how I did it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:52.560" data-start="00:02:52.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">or I did this demo I'm showing you right now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:02:57.000" data-start="00:02:57.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">First of all, how does Wayland work?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:00.680" data-start="00:03:00.680" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Wayland is a protocol in XML.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:04.000" data-start="00:03:04.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's a server and client, and they share a set of</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:11.120" data-start="00:03:11.120" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">objects, and the objects have methods.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:13.960" data-start="00:03:13.960" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">They are specified in the protocol,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:16.120" data-start="00:03:16.120" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and Wayland also says how the server</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:24.080" data-start="00:03:24.080" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and client talk to each other.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:25.720" data-start="00:03:25.720" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">First blocker for Emacs becoming a Wayland</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:33.440" data-start="00:03:33.440" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">compositor is that Emacs and Wayland both have</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:37.000" data-start="00:03:37.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">their own event loop, and you can't merge them too.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:41.880" data-start="00:03:41.880" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">But you don't have to merge them</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:45.800" data-start="00:03:45.800" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">because you can just make Emacs speak Wayland.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:48.000" data-start="00:03:48.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">So, Emacs becomes a Wayland client,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:50.040" data-start="00:03:50.040" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and there's an extra server Emacs is talking to.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:53.000" data-start="00:03:53.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">So, we need a minimal Wayland server that does all</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:03:59.160" data-start="00:03:59.160" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">the stuff Emacs can't do and do the rest in Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:03.000" data-start="00:04:03.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">---The minimal Wayland server, I did it in wlroots.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:07.800" data-start="00:04:07.800" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">That's the library behind Sway. I think it's</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:13.040" data-start="00:04:13.040" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">the Wayland library to do stuff like this.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:20.000" data-start="00:04:20.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I implemented four different things to make it work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:26.000" data-start="00:04:26.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's these three letter acronyms on the left.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:30.680" data-start="00:04:30.680" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's Emacs, Wayland, and then it's a server,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:34.520" data-start="00:04:34.520" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">a client, a protocol, and buffers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:38.000" data-start="00:04:38.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">The server is written in C and it's mostly tinywl.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:44.000" data-start="00:04:44.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's the example of wlroots,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:46.280" data-start="00:04:46.280" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and it's around 1000 lines of code.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:52.000" data-start="00:04:52.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">ewc, the Wayland client in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:54.960" data-start="00:04:54.960" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">is the thing I'm most proud of.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:04:58.560" data-start="00:04:58.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's 300 lines of code, and it is a</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:02.120" data-start="00:05:02.120" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">fully featured Wayland client in Emacs.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:08.000" data-start="00:05:08.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">With this, Emacs can speak Wayland,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:11.640" data-start="00:05:11.640" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and then I implemented Emacs Wayland protocol.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:18.000" data-start="00:05:18.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It more or less allows Emacs to become a Wayland</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:21.280" data-start="00:05:21.280" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">window manager, so it's not actually the compositor.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:24.640" data-start="00:05:24.640" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">The compositor stays in C, but Emacs is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:27.680" data-start="00:05:27.680" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">now a Wayland window manager!</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:31.000" data-start="00:05:31.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And the last thing is Emacs Wayland buffers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:34.520" data-start="00:05:34.520" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's the window manager part.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:35.880" data-start="00:05:35.880" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's around 500 lines of code,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:38.440" data-start="00:05:38.440" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and it does the buffer management inside</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:41.680" data-start="00:05:41.680" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Emacs windows, or floating right like you see me</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:45.680" data-start="00:05:45.680" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">now floating on the right.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:48.000" data-start="00:05:48.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It works, but it is still buggy,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:51.000" data-start="00:05:51.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and it is also missing input handling,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:05:54.320" data-start="00:05:54.320" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">so there's more code to come for this to work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:01.000" data-start="00:06:01.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Some caveats about this approach.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:05.000" data-start="00:06:05.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">wlroots is around 60 kilo LoCs (Line of Code)</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:09.640" data-start="00:06:09.640" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and in active development.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:12.000" data-start="00:06:12.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">They have like a slogan 60 kilo locs of code</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:16.640" data-start="00:06:16.640" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">you had to write anyway to make a Wayland</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:19.760" data-start="00:06:19.760" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">compositor. And no, you don't have to write it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:22.520" data-start="00:06:22.520" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">But I still remember when it was like 50 kilo locs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:25.840" data-start="00:06:25.840" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and now it's 60. And it's like a moving target.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:29.680" data-start="00:06:29.680" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I think it could be quite a lot of work</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:32.480" data-start="00:06:32.480" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">to keep up with it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:34.000" data-start="00:06:34.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Yeah, it could be quite a bit of work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:41.000" data-start="00:06:41.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Some windows don't like to keep the aspect ratios.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:46.000" data-start="00:06:46.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">You tell them and you have to crop them.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:49.560" data-start="00:06:49.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And the interface I use in wlroots for doing this,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:53.000" data-start="00:06:53.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland"><code>wlr_scene</code>, can't do cropping yet,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:06:57.280" data-start="00:06:57.280" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">so this doesn't work.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:01.000" data-start="00:07:01.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Another problem is with GTK.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:03.240" data-start="00:07:03.240" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Once Wayland is enabled and it stays on.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:11.000" data-start="00:07:11.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">This doesn't make sense.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:12.560" data-start="00:07:12.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Okay, if you kill the Wayland server,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:15.000" data-start="00:07:15.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">GTK kills Emacs, that's not a good thing.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:18.000" data-start="00:07:18.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And it's still a bit of work and fussing needed</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:21.000" data-start="00:07:21.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">to get this to work reliably.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:23.640" data-start="00:07:23.640" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It's quite buggy right now.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:26.000" data-start="00:07:26.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And that brings me to my call to action.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:30.000" data-start="00:07:30.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I think making Emacs Wayland capable is</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:34.440" data-start="00:07:34.440" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">a further step to make an Emacs OS.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:39.000" data-start="00:07:39.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">It gains output and input handling.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:41.360" data-start="00:07:41.360" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Output handling is already there,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:44.120" data-start="00:07:44.120" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">input handling is still missing,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:45.760" data-start="00:07:45.760" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">but Emacs can manage monitors, outputs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:49.720" data-start="00:07:49.720" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">different frames if it's like nested,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:53.040" data-start="00:07:53.040" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And inputs, keyboards, simulation keys,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:57.080" data-start="00:07:57.080" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">stuff like that.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:07:58.000" data-start="00:07:58.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">We could use it in more ways for Emacs display, maybe.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:02.000" data-start="00:08:02.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Wayland just manages simple pixel buffers,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:05.720" data-start="00:08:05.720" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">so it's a protocol for managing pixel buffers.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:09.000" data-start="00:08:09.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And in a sense, we could go back to</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:12.560" data-start="00:08:12.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">the old X ways and maybe even ditch GTK.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:15.560" data-start="00:08:15.560" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I don't know, but why need it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:18.000" data-start="00:08:18.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">We can composite without it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:20.600" data-start="00:08:20.600" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Let's make buffer menus, buffer world, buffer.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:27.000" data-start="00:08:27.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Emacs Wayland protocol, like I did it,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:29.040" data-start="00:08:29.040" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">allows a very concise design, and it allows</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:34.040" data-start="00:08:34.040" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">to improve on the EXWM code base.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:38.000" data-start="00:08:38.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">And I wrote KISS style because EXWM has</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:41.840" data-start="00:08:41.840" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">workspace management integrated.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:45.000" data-start="00:08:45.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I don't think that's needed, like Emacs does it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:50.600" data-start="00:08:50.600" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Why do you have to do something extra?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:53.640" data-start="00:08:53.640" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">So why do it?</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:08:56.000" data-start="00:08:56.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">To finish the call to action,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:00.040" data-start="00:09:00.040" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">if this is the thing you want to see in Emacs,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:03.280" data-start="00:09:03.280" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">maybe you want to get involved, have some ideas,</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:06.600" data-start="00:09:06.600" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">so we could discuss it.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:10.000" data-start="00:09:10.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I'm looking forward to discuss with you</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:14.960" data-start="00:09:14.960" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">and hear your questions and ideas.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:21.000" data-start="00:09:21.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">I want to say a big thank you to the</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:24.200" data-start="00:09:24.200" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">organizers of EmacsConf and the other speakers</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:26.600" data-start="00:09:26.600" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">for making this event possible.</span>
<span class="subtitle" title="00:09:29.000" data-start="00:09:29.000" data-video="mainVideo-wayland">Thank you, and see you.</span></p>
<p>Questions or comments? Please e-mail <a href="mailto:perma-curious@posteo.de?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202022%20wayland%3A%20Emacs%20should%20become%20a%20Wayland%20compositor">perma-curious@posteo.de</a></p>
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